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Posted
12 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

IMG_5321.webp.611f41677334f9dac5c4bbd3ebbcfac4.webp

I stole this off the A&M thread to stick here. Even when I wasn’t drinking this is how I felt every goddamn day when I wasn’t sober. Maybe it’ll help someone else too. 
Or maybe it’s just Aggy waiting for their SEC Championship next year. 

Ha!  I used this analogy in a meeting yesterday to explain how I felt before going through the steps and establishing a conscious contact with a higher power.

I can still feel like this when I'm not right sized and spiritually fit, but now I have some solutions other than the bottom of a bottle.

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Posted

Potato, potata counter point misinterpretation: I'm grateful for when I have a rock to push up hill. I'm good at it, focuses my energy, and gives me something worthwhile to do. It's when I have too much free time that I tend to say, "fuck it."

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I sent a voice message on Tuesday to the mother of my ex-girlfriend thanking her for what she did five years ago on the last night I drank. I told her that if she is able to do so to tell her daughter thank you for kicking me to the curb as that likely saved my life. Hopefully one day I can tell her myself on the phone or in-person. Her mother is an amazingly strong woman and Christian (yes there are a few good ones out there) who thought I could do better and has never stopped helping or encouraging me.

Every single day I attempt to make the best of it that I can. Now obviously some days are just going to be completely out of sync. We all deal with that regularly. The difference that I tell myself is that I do not need to ever again run to a bottle and check out on life. The desire to drink died the day I quit. One of the things for me is I took that laser-like focus I have with being on the spectrum and used it to form good habits instead of something that was destroying me bit by bit.

The only part of this that sucks is that 1st year saying goodbye to my aunt a year and a day after I stopped drinking. I had to see her incapacitated on a FaceTime call and say goodbye to her while I was in Vermont celebrating one year sober. I will forever think of how alcohol robbed me of her and her children of their mom and the grandchildren who she was in the beginning stages of showering with love. She was a nurse for three decades and knew better, but her and her longtime alcoholic boyfriend just kept drinking. She stopped a month before she died, but it was too late.
 

If any of you reading this feel like alcohol is taking over your life please reach out to someone on this thread or someone in-person you trust. The alcohol never loses. You do not have to let it win though. You can make a stand and say no more. Perhaps it will not be as painless as it was for me to walk away, but do it if you cannot function without drinking. Your friends and loved ones will thank you for doing that.

Edited by UpperWestside
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Posted
12 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

The alcohol never loses.

Big topic of conversation in our group with some newcomers.  You can't out think it or out run it.  That's the insanity the book describes....some how, someday I'll control it.

And, one of the more insidious aspects of alcoholism is that we are like that proverbial frog in a pot.  It turns up the heat so slowly at first we don't realize we're in the soup and being cooked until it is too late.

That combination is deadly and the reason it's basically a perfect disease.

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Posted
17 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Big topic of conversation in our group with some newcomers.  You can't out think it or out run it.  That's the insanity the book describes....some how, someday I'll control it.

 

the-only-winning-move.gif

 

1 hour ago, Kennythetiger said:

Spent some time at a place in Steamboat a while back. Got word at midnight that one of my guys died. “An accident” is all his facebook page said. 

it's a bummer not knowing. it ultimately doesn't matter I suppose, but having loved people for a time in your life, and then not knowing the circumstances of their death or just losing touch and not even knowing if they're still around, it's a hard part of recovery. And even more generally the suddenness of it sometimes.

 

I suppose I'm not as well rounded as I like to consider myself to be - I've just made the connection that the little serenity prayer snippet that is so central to how I've been able to manage myself in recovery is essentially the core of stoic philosophy. The dichotomy of control. There was a conversation a while back in a different thread where I was talking about wanting to read some stoic philosophy, I've dipped into it a bit more and taken aback at how much I didn't realize that this is what I've worked so hard to incorporate into my every day. I've added "How to Think Like a Roman Emperor" into my reading list, I'll report back if I find it useful in this context.

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Posted
20 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Big topic of conversation in our group with some newcomers.  You can't out think it or out run it.  That's the insanity the book describes....some how, someday I'll control it.

And, one of the more insidious aspects of alcoholism is that we are like that proverbial frog in a pot.  It turns up the heat so slowly at first we don't realize we're in the soup and being cooked until it is too late.

That combination is deadly and the reason it's basically a perfect disease.

Anton Chigurh. 

Posted
16 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Interesting - I had seen that he got sober but instead of retiring but has just figured it was more of a… “gave up alcohol for my health” thing rather than a “got treated for alcoholism” thing. He’s a hill country guy, curious if he went to La Ha or somewhere else.

 

Corpus Christi Bay is a great song. Great alcoholic chorus.

One of my all time faves and had no idea he was an alcoholic. But I guess, "Selfish, dreadful crime" should have told me.

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Posted

Tempted to go see him at the Austin Rodeo in March.  I saw him twice in 2022 when he was on his final tour - glad to see he's not done and more happy to see that he's embraced sobriety.

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Posted
20 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Interesting - I had seen that he got sober but instead of retiring but has just figured it was more of a… “gave up alcohol for my health” thing rather than a “got treated for alcoholism” thing. He’s a hill country guy, curious if he went to La Ha or somewhere else.

 

Corpus Christi Bay is a great song. Great alcoholic chorus.

Staying at rehab six months shows something.  Even though he doesn't have a regular-type job to go to, he's a semi-famous performer guy, which bespeaks a good amount of humility to stay six months.

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Posted (edited)

I’m betting a part of his rehab was because of pain pills, he supposedly has a bad back and that’s why he sits now when he performs. I’m sure he went down the hill of mixing booze in with them though.  
 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/robert-earl-keen-sober-retired-1235171375/

Edited by Hook1997
Read the article finally, it was pain pills. Link to article posted.
Posted
12 hours ago, ocugolf said:

I had read the article in Rolling Stone, and I saw him in the Houston airport about two weeks ago. He was doing an interview on the phone, and I recognized the voice. Nobody else around. When he finished, I went up and thanked him for what his music has meant to my life, and what sharing his struggles to the world meant to me. We talked for probably 10 minutes. God bless that man.

dude, awesome. like bucketlist awesome.

Posted
13 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

dude, awesome. like bucketlist awesome.

I heard the voice and instantly recognized it. Turned around and nobody was around. In the Houston airport where there’s always people around.  Didn’t want to bother him, but thought it just meant to be or something. He couldn’t have been more kind with his time.

I had talked to him at the merch table at a bar he played in OKC circa 2005ish. We were both less than sober. So, this interaction was much cooler.

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Posted

Saw REK from backstage many times when I used to work his stage at Oysterfest, drinking the beer from the cooler we supplied him.

At my son’s rehearsal dinner (whoop! they was aggies) his cake was a big armadillo stuffed with berry filling and when we cut it everyone said it looked like roadkill. And then the band segued into armadillo jackel. Now we trade obnoxious armadillo tchotchkes with his in-laws and have a good laugh.

I know a sober guy who tours extensively and still sings his hits - which are all drinking anthems - that's what pays the bills. His sponsor joins him on tour and on off days they play 36 holes. I was with them one day when a song came on SiriusXM and he joked “I just made 4 cents.”

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Posted
39 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Saw REK from backstage many times when I used to work his stage at Oysterfest, drinking the beer from the cooler we supplied him.

At my son’s rehearsal dinner (whoop! they was aggies) his cake was a big armadillo stuffed with berry filling and when we cut it everyone said it looked like roadkill. And then the band segued into armadillo jackel. Now we trade obnoxious armadillo tchotchkes with his in-laws and have a good laugh.

I know a sober guy who tours extensively and still sings his hits - which are all drinking anthems - that's what pays the bills. His sponsor joins him on tour and on off days they play 36 holes. I was with them one day when a song came on SiriusXM and he joked “I just made 4 cents.”

I took a CLE on how money is distributed in the music industry. Was truly fascinating. It’s amazing how one line can get you a writing credit or one cord progression. The Verve getting no money off of “Bitter Sweet Symphony” because they didn’t get permission from The Rolling Stones, even though the had the permission of the person who had bought the orchestral track of the song, was always crazy to me. (Jagger and Richards finally gave them the rights in like 2020). But forever that was the song they had made the most money from since the 90s and it wasn’t their song. 

Posted
Saw REK from backstage many times when I used to work his stage at Oysterfest, drinking the beer from the cooler we supplied him.

At my son’s rehearsal dinner (whoop! they was aggies) his cake was a big armadillo stuffed with berry filling and when we cut it everyone said it looked like roadkill. And then the band segued into armadillo jackel. Now we trade obnoxious armadillo tchotchkes with his in-laws and have a good laugh.

I know a sober guy who tours extensively and still sings his hits - which are all drinking anthems - that's what pays the bills. His sponsor joins him on tour and on off days they play 36 holes. I was with them one day when a song came on SiriusXM and he joked “I just made 4 cents.”

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Posted

Holy shit thank you for adding to family lore. Ain't nothing like a good price of ass.

Edit : apparently I missed the point and was the only one in the family that hadn't paid attention to that movie. I am ridiculed.

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Posted

Someone I love received a letter this weekend from his sibling who is NA and making amends, but the offenses did not include sexual assault which obviously is the main offense.

He is wrecked over this letter, completely unmoored and in anguish. Do you guys have any experience with anything like this that might help him deal with this?

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Posted
18 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

Someone I love received a letter this weekend from his sibling who is NA and making amends, but the offenses did not include sexual assault which obviously is the main offense.

He is wrecked over this letter, completely unmoored and in anguish. Do you guys have any experience with anything like this that might help him deal with this?

If I am understanding correctly, the letter acknowledges some wrongdoing, but not the main wrongdoing?

From the addict's perspective, the "amendee's" reaction is irrelevant, although the hoped-for outcome is reconciliation and forgiveness.  The idea is for the addict to become willing to admit the wrongdoing, directly to the victim and what comes after is beyond the addict's control.

The problem here is that the addict apparently has not made a full disclosure/admission of the wrongdoing. And that is to the addict's ultimate detriment as the whole exercise is intended to unburden the addict of guilt.

I suppose it is not surprising that the most heinous offense is repressed.  Going through the 12 steps is for most an iterative process and further clarity comes with further step work.

I'm not sure what the Al-Anon view on this is, which is more relevant to the victim issue than anything I have to offer.

But, I don't think it would be amiss for the victim to write back, express some kind of gladness that the addict is in recovery and attempting to make amends, but also pointing out the failure to address the elephant in the room.

 

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Posted
23 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

If I am understanding correctly, the letter acknowledges some wrongdoing, but not the main wrongdoing?

From the addict's perspective, the "amendee's" reaction is irrelevant, although the hoped-for outcome is reconciliation and forgiveness.  The idea is for the addict to become willing to admit the wrongdoing, directly to the victim and what comes after is beyond the addict's control.

The problem here is that the addict apparently has not made a full disclosure/admission of the wrongdoing. And that is to the addict's ultimate detriment as the whole exercise is intended to unburden the addict of guilt.

I suppose it is not surprising that the most heinous offense is repressed.  Going through the 12 steps is for most an iterative process and further clarity comes with further step work.

I'm not sure what the Al-Anon view on this is, which is more relevant to the victim issue than anything I have to offer.

But, I don't think it would be amiss for the victim to write back, express some kind of gladness that the addict is in recovery and attempting to make amends, but also pointing out the failure to address the elephant in the room.

 

Its a tough position since it's a sibling. I can only speak from my experience, but the steps tell us to make amends wherever possible except when to do so would injure ourselves or others. To me, this is one of those situations where the amends would cause more harm than good because of the circumstances and my sponsor would have told me to stay the hell away, because bringing up past things like this could cause more emotional damage to the victim.

I  don't know the family dynamic, but seems to me like this creates an elephant in the room type situation, so the amends is warranted.

In going through the amends, I've always been told to make them in person, say my part, then shut up and listen to what the other person has to say. Seems to me that that opportunity wasn't given to your loved one. The whole purpose of the amends is to set things right with the harmed person and honor their wishes. I think a response letter for them to say their part is more than warranted.

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Posted

Thanks for weighing in. The letter apologizes for violating the reasonable boundaries established by the victim in adulthood, but not for the abuse in childhood and adolescence that prompted the boundaries. In some ways the letter itself is a violation of the boundaries, because the victim went no-contact after the most recent violation.

(The boundary was meeting only in public places, but the abuser went to his house with another family member to visit his children when the victim was not there. The letter apologizes for that, ie Im sorry I did not respect your wishes not Im sorry that I molested you.) Is he maybe differentiating in making amends those actions done under the influence or not?

I am encouraging him to work with a therapist in deciding if and how to respond.

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DallasHorn26 said:

Its a tough position since it's a sibling. I can only speak from my experience, but the steps tell us to make amends wherever possible except when to do so would injure ourselves or others. To me, this is one of those situations where the amends would cause more harm than good because of the circumstances and my sponsor would have told me to stay the hell away, because bringing up past things like this could cause more emotional damage to the victim.

I  don't know the family dynamic, but seems to me like this creates an elephant in the room type situation, so the amends is warranted.

In going through the amends, I've always been told to make them in person, say my part, then shut up and listen to what the other person has to say. Seems to me that that opportunity wasn't given to your loved one. The whole purpose of the amends is to set things right with the harmed person and honor their wishes. I think a response letter for them to say their part is more than warranted.

Very good point on the this is untouchable for the reason you state.

I assumed that the recovering probably did not raise this in their inventory, so the sponsor wasn't privy to it.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
5 hours ago, harpercollins said:

Thanks for weighing in. The letter apologizes for violating the reasonable boundaries established by the victim in adulthood, but not for the abuse in childhood and adolescence that prompted the boundaries. In some ways the letter itself is a violation of the boundaries, because the victim went no-contact after the most recent violation.

(The boundary was meeting only in public places, but the abuser went to his house with another family member to visit his children when the victim was not there. The letter apologizes for that, ie Im sorry I did not respect your wishes not Im sorry that I molested you.) Is he maybe differentiating in making amends those actions done under the influence or not?

I am encouraging him to work with a therapist in deciding if and how to respond.

Well, who knows, but the steps don't distinguish between things done in the throes of addiction and things not done in the throes of addiction.  It is intended to address all sources of guilt.

And it is odd that the what is addressed seems closely related to what isn't.  Maybe the addict rationalized that the boundaries were because of the addiction not the molestation.

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Posted

Doubtful. Inventories don’t draw a line. The addict is just attempting to avoid responsibility, if he has been honest with himself.

Also, and this is 100% my own anecdotal, generalized opinion, but NA isn’t the same as AA. The steps are supposed to be analogous, but if one of my AA sponsees admitted to molesting someone my suggestion would be to leave that person alone out of respect for the victim. Maybe write a letter and read it to me but then destroy it and be satisfied that in this case, willingness to make the amend will have to satisfy the requirements of the step.

There’s simply no reason to expose someone to additional trauma. “Do no more harm” is the guiding principle.

The situation just sucks. A PTSD therapist will be your friend’s best bet.

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Posted
10 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Finally got around to watching the John Mulaney Netflix special where he talked about his intervention and trip to rehab. Cocaine was never my thing but I sure could identify with his behavior.

On another note, we finally finished building our new sober living house to replace the one from the 1940s. Got it done between Covid and the nascent trade war. Just under $1M, all financed with gifts and community development grants. I am the money guy, and was holding my breath waiting for obstacles and expenses that simply never materialized. We are blessed with a fantastic executive director and admin staff. The invitation stands, I can get a bed for any man (notwithstanding any felons with violent offenses) who needs a safe place to regroup and live sober.

Here’s our story: https://thehowcenter.org/

A Shocker giving a Bear a "Hook'em" doesn't seem right but here we are.

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Posted
On 3/5/2025 at 8:11 PM, BearSchlong said:

Finally got around to watching the John Mulaney Netflix special where he talked about his intervention and trip to rehab. Cocaine was never my thing but I sure could identify with his behavior.

On another note, we finally finished building our new sober living house to replace the one from the 1940s. Got it done between Covid and the nascent trade war. Just under $1M, all financed with gifts and community development grants. I am the money guy, and was holding my breath waiting for obstacles and expenses that simply never materialized. We are blessed with a fantastic executive director and admin staff. The invitation stands, I can get a bed for any man (notwithstanding any felons with violent offenses) who needs a safe place to regroup and live sober.

Here’s our story: https://thehowcenter.org/

Bravo on this life saving effort.  It's nice to see the St. Francis Prayer in action on the part of individuals and a city that will perhaps truly be the last house on the block.

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Posted

Well.  I decided to start my journey to sobriety 6 weeks ago and what a rollercoaster it's been.  I'd been trying to stop drinking for a while but was never really committed to it.  New year's resolution agreement with myself type of deal.  Well, that's when the anxiety decided to really start fucking with me.  Any time I had anything to drink, especially after overindulging, I would have the absolute worst anxiety the next day - at least that's what the Dr.'s told me it was. Totally lethargic, shame, overly concerned about my health etc..  Where things really came to ahead was having a full blown panic attack.  I've been healthy as a horse my entire life (minus the obvious) and have never had to deal with anything like what was going on.  I've gone for a 30 minute jog every morning, work out at the gym 5 days a week, eat clean, take a multi-vitamin, and all the other healthy stuff one can try to do for years and this was new territory for me.

I was driving to my oldest's soccer game in Bastrop and the panic attack hit me out of nowhere.  I've never had any major health issues but my father has high blood pressure issues and my grandfather died of a heart attack when I was 1 and that's what I thought was going on.  I had never experienced anything like it.  Chest got tight, heart was pounding, vision was going black, and sweating bullets.  I had my youngest in the car with me and had to pull off the road and call 911.  The EMS showed up 5 minutes after I called and said no heart attack and gave me shot to calm everything down.  Scared the living shit out of me to the point that I had them drive me to the ER so I could hear it from the doctor themselves.

This is when the fun really started. 

After the quick trip to the ER to have them tell me nothing was actually wrong with me, I decided it was time to stop.  In addition to that, I went to see a behavioral health specialist because of the panic attack and to see if there was anything they could give me to help manage the anxiety while I was trying to sober up.  Turns out my body didn't respond well to any type of SSRI and because of it, 3 more trips to the ER happened because they were actually making the physical effects of the anxiety/withdrawl that much worse.  Insomnia, high blood pressure, tinnitus, etc.  You name the side effect, I had it.  The last nail in the coffin was when out of nowhere my blood pressure shot up to 180/110 and another trip to the er just to say I have runners cardiovascular system and nothing was wrong.  They did ct scans with the dye of pretty much my entire body and drew what felt like half a gallon of blood over all these er visits just to have everyone say "You're fine.".  I threw all that shit in the trash (I don't know how shit that does that kind of stuff to people can be legal but also understand that it helps others) and started fresh with the cold turkey approach.

Because shit wasn't already hard enough with the anxiety and trying to get sober, my appendix decided to rupture in the middle of my oldest's birthday dinner.  After yet another trip to ER and one less appendix later, I was back home within 48 hours.  This is when I learned that I'm overly sensitive to pretty much any medication.  While dealing with going cold turkey from booze and trying to manage my anxiety (thank god for THC), the pain meds they gave me decided I wasn't dealing with enough and decided to join the party.  I wound up losing 8 pounds in a week and felt like my skin was crawling before switching to just Tylenol so things would hopefully normalize.  I wound up gaining some of the weight back but not all of it, turns out no booze while working keeping up with your fitness is a good way to get back in better shape fast, and have had more good days than bad since. 

The bad days have been hell but I'm committed to no alcohol.  I've honestly had no desire to drink because of everything that's gone on with my body the past few months.  I had no idea just how shot my nervous system was but I also understand that I have to reap what I've sewn.

I did have a couple of questions for those others in recovery regarding the anxiety.  Did anyone else deal with anything like this?  Going 4-5 days of feeling fine just to wind up having a bad day out of nowhere?   Did it eventually get better with/without SSRIs?

Keep fighting the good fight.

Glenn

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Posted
26 minutes ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

Well.  I decided to start my journey to sobriety 6 weeks ago and what a rollercoaster it's been.  I'd been trying to stop drinking for a while but was never really committed to it.  New year's resolution agreement with myself type of deal.  Well, that's when the anxiety decided to really start fucking with me.  Any time I had anything to drink, especially after overindulging, I would have the absolute worst anxiety the next day - at least that's what the Dr.'s told me it was. Totally lethargic, shame, overly concerned about my health etc..  Where things really came to ahead was having a full blown panic attack.  I've been healthy as a horse my entire life (minus the obvious) and have never had to deal with anything like what was going on.  I've gone for a 30 minute jog every morning, work out at the gym 5 days a week, eat clean, take a multi-vitamin, and all the other healthy stuff one can try to do for years and this was new territory for me.

I was driving to my oldest's soccer game in Bastrop and the panic attack hit me out of nowhere.  I've never had any major health issues but my father has high blood pressure issues and my grandfather died of a heart attack when I was 1 and that's what I thought was going on.  I had never experienced anything like it.  Chest got tight, heart was pounding, vision was going black, and sweating bullets.  I had my youngest in the car with me and had to pull off the road and call 911.  The EMS showed up 5 minutes after I called and said no heart attack and gave me shot to calm everything down.  Scared the living shit out of me to the point that I had them drive me to the ER so I could hear it from the doctor themselves.

This is when the fun really started. 

After the quick trip to the ER to have them tell me nothing was actually wrong with me, I decided it was time to stop.  In addition to that, I went to see a behavioral health specialist because of the panic attack and to see if there was anything they could give me to help manage the anxiety while I was trying to sober up.  Turns out my body didn't respond well to any type of SSRI and because of it, 3 more trips to the ER happened because they were actually making the physical effects of the anxiety/withdrawl that much worse.  Insomnia, high blood pressure, tinnitus, etc.  You name the side effect, I had it.  The last nail in the coffin was when out of nowhere my blood pressure shot up to 180/110 and another trip to the er just to say I have runners cardiovascular system and nothing was wrong.  They did ct scans with the dye of pretty much my entire body and drew what felt like half a gallon of blood over all these er visits just to have everyone say "You're fine.".  I threw all that shit in the trash (I don't know how shit that does that kind of stuff to people can be legal but also understand that it helps others) and started fresh with the cold turkey approach.

Because shit wasn't already hard enough with the anxiety and trying to get sober, my appendix decided to rupture in the middle of my oldest's birthday dinner.  After yet another trip to ER and one less appendix later, I was back home within 48 hours.  This is when I learned that I'm overly sensitive to pretty much any medication.  While dealing with going cold turkey from booze and trying to manage my anxiety (thank god for THC), the pain meds they gave me decided I wasn't dealing with enough and decided to join the party.  I wound up losing 8 pounds in a week and felt like my skin was crawling before switching to just Tylenol so things would hopefully normalize.  I wound up gaining some of the weight back but not all of it, turns out no booze while working keeping up with your fitness is a good way to get back in better shape fast, and have had more good days than bad since. 

The bad days have been hell but I'm committed to no alcohol.  I've honestly had no desire to drink because of everything that's gone on with my body the past few months.  I had no idea just how shot my nervous system was but I also understand that I have to reap what I've sewn.

I did have a couple of questions for those others in recovery regarding the anxiety.  Did anyone else deal with anything like this?  Going 4-5 days of feeling fine just to wind up having a bad day out of nowhere?   Did it eventually get better with/without SSRIs?

Keep fighting the good fight.

Glenn

The real answer for anxiety is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or one of its variants.  There are no good medical solutiions for it, especially for an addict that SSRIs don't help.

I believe the symptoms of withdrawal coincide pretty well with a panic attack and there is something called post-acute withdrawal syndrome, where withdrawal starts up again without having any of the drug of choice.  I'm not sure how differentiable that is from craving, perhaps more intense.

The brainless solution to anxiety is benzodiazepine drugs, librium, valium, Xanax, but they produce a euphoria similar to alcohol and run the same neurological pathways, so no bueno at all.

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Posted

Ashwagandha might help reduce your cortisol levels. It’s very subtle.

But nothing helps me get spiritually centered like 12-step work. I can't, but God can, and I think I'll let him.

And its not a fight, its a capitulation. I know what you meant, but the harder I fight the worse it becomes. Learning how to stay surrendered is my lifelong quest.

I spent today sitting in a hospital room with my mom at MD Anderson. She just had her bladder removed and her undercarriage rearranged and the nurse brought her some Oxy which she tried to refuse. I had to stress that she needs to stay ahead of the pain and it took all my restraint to not crack jokes in front of the oncologist about how the proper way to take it was to chop it up and snort it. I'm a sicko.

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Posted

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) has been used for over 3,000 years, primarily in Ayurvedic medicine, which originated in ancient India. It was first documented in Ayurvedic texts like the Charaka Samhita and Sushruta Samhita, which date back to around 1000 BCE.

Traditional Uses in Ancient India:
• Used as a Rasayana (rejuvenating herb) to promote longevity and vitality.
• Given to warriors before battles to enhance strength and endurance.
• Used in spiritual practices to promote mental clarity and relaxation.
• Prescribed for stress, fatigue, anxiety, and immune support.

Spread Beyond India:
• Ashwagandha also became part of Persian and Middle Eastern medicine through trade routes.
• Used in Unani medicine, which blends Greek, Arabic, and Indian healing traditions.
• Eventually introduced to Western herbal medicine in the modern era due to research on adaptogens.

Would you like more details on its historical use in specific cultures?

Posted
22 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The real answer for anxiety is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or one of its variants.  There are no good medical solutiions for it, especially for an addict that SSRIs don't help.

I believe the symptoms of withdrawal coincide pretty well with a panic attack and there is something called post-acute withdrawal syndrome, where withdrawal starts up again without having any of the drug of choice.  I'm not sure how differentiable that is from craving, perhaps more intense.

The brainless solution to anxiety is benzodiazepine drugs, librium, valium, Xanax, but they produce a euphoria similar to alcohol and run the same neurological pathways, so no bueno at all.

Today was another shitty day.  I took a minute and looked into what you mentioned and after reading a bit more about PAWS, I think this is spot on.  Almost everything on the PAWS Iist of symptoms has been going on. I  was able to get in touch with a different mental health professional today because the last one wasn't listening and I feel like he should have brought this up instead of throwing a bunch antidepressants at me that just made things worse.  I'm talking with them tomorrow at 8am to see if there's anything they do in the short term while I get the CBT piece figured out.  Thank you for bringing this up and I sincerely mean that.  I would have never found PAWS without you mentioning this and would have just tried to tough it out using edibles to help manage the anxiety.  Happy to report back tomorrow after I speak with the mental health professional.  I'm also going to talk to some folks over at a detox center to see if inpatient/outpatient might be the way to go while I get a handle on this. 

Thanks again for mentioning this.  I owe you a box of Omaha steaks.  

 

20 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) has been used for over 3,000 years, primarily in Ayurvedic medicine, which originated in ancient India. It was first documented in Ayurvedic texts like the Charaka Samhita and Sushruta Samhita, which date back to around 1000 BCE.

Traditional Uses in Ancient India:
• Used as a Rasayana (rejuvenating herb) to promote longevity and vitality.
• Given to warriors before battles to enhance strength and endurance.
• Used in spiritual practices to promote mental clarity and relaxation.
• Prescribed for stress, fatigue, anxiety, and immune support.

Spread Beyond India:
• Ashwagandha also became part of Persian and Middle Eastern medicine through trade routes.
• Used in Unani medicine, which blends Greek, Arabic, and Indian healing traditions.
• Eventually introduced to Western herbal medicine in the modern era due to research on adaptogens.

Would you like more details on its historical use in specific cultures?

I've actually used these types of drinks in the past as an alternative to wine & beer in social situations.  Hop water I think it's called.  In addition to those, I've been taking lion's mane gummies along with my vitamins in the morning which I don't know if it's actually doing anything but I'm willing to try pretty much anything on days like today.  

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Posted

Ashwagandha needs to be taken in capsule form for about a week before the benefits become clear.

I had a hop water once and it caused my euphoric recall to fuck with my head, so its a non-starter for me.

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Posted

I’m not sure if I’m following the timeline exactly but I had crippling anxiety when I was trying to quit. Sweating, heart palpitations, panic, etc. That was just all the time for my last year of drinking and the only relief was to drink. I could never get 4-5 days out from a drink so I couldn’t tell you if it got better and then ratcheted back up - I kept trying to taper but couldn’t make it out, and then when I detoxed shit went sideways and I was in a coma for a while. 
 

Anyways, I think I’ve been there, kinda sorta. If the anxiety was ratcheting up that day after any time you drank, that would track as it being withdrawals related. Give it time, be careful, don’t go back.

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Posted (edited)

Apologies if my messages in this thread get long winded.  Consider this as part of my journaling exercises associated with the process.  I hope that anything shared in here might help others that are considering getting sober and if you need help to seek out the resources that are available.  I've learned that you can't start your recovery journey if you don't take the first step.

 

Today was a much better day.  Got a good nights sleep last night and no feelings of overwhelming anxiety today, no brain zaps, etc..  I went ahead and called Sage recovery center today and had a great conversation with the staff there.  They agreed that it sounded like PAWS and I went ahead and initiated the intake process to help manage my way through PAWS symptoms and to have a third party keep me accountable to seeing things through.  One fortunate part of the appendectomy is that now my out pocket is covered for the year, doing the evening outpatient program for 7 weeks would cost less than my old monthly booze expenditures. I'd do the inpatient but I have to work.  In addition to that, they have a clinician & psychiatrist onsite in the event any medication is required to help manage the PAWS symptoms.

8 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Ashwagandha needs to be taken in capsule form for about a week before the benefits become clear.

I had a hop water once and it caused my euphoric recall to fuck with my head, so its a non-starter for me.

That's good to know.  Are there any specific ones you recommend?  I've tried a few here and there but it was interment/spot dosing so that may be the reason I never noticed any benefits.  I think I may have similar issues with euphoric recall and have switched to kombucha mixed with soda water to have something to keep my drinking hand occupied.  That seems to be helping except.  The only downside to drinking that much water is that I have to piss every half hour.  I'm dropping the light dosing of THC drinks as well as I think that euphoric recall may be coming from those as well.  I hope I'm understanding and using that terminology correctly.

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Nothing soothes anxiety like sitting in a meeting, eyes closed, ears open.

For the short term, I'm going to be using the nightly outpatient meetings to satisfy this part.  I worry that going to any informal meetings at this juncture might trigger something and kick me into anxious state.  When I have a better grasp on things, I do plan on attending weekly meetings near me.  I'm currently in the Lake Travis area if anyone has any recommendations for groups in the area.

 

7 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I’m not sure if I’m following the timeline exactly but I had crippling anxiety when I was trying to quit. Sweating, heart palpitations, panic, etc. That was just all the time for my last year of drinking and the only relief was to drink. I could never get 4-5 days out from a drink so I couldn’t tell you if it got better and then ratcheted back up - I kept trying to taper but couldn’t make it out, and then when I detoxed shit went sideways and I was in a coma for a while. 
 

Anyways, I think I’ve been there, kinda sorta. If the anxiety was ratcheting up that day after any time you drank, that would track as it being withdrawals related. Give it time, be careful, don’t go back.

The timeline went pretty much like this:  Panic Attack in early October -> first pass at tapering consumption -> get put on first round of SSRIs because of the panic attack -> PAWS symptoms kick in -> change SSRI because of symptoms -> repeat the last two steps two more times with trips to the er splashed in -> go two weeks without drinking just to fuck up and have a couple glasses of wine after a week of feeling okay -> ER the next day because of what I thought was SSRI side effects -> restart sobriety clock -> switch to THC drinks to help manage what I now know is PAWS symptoms -> stop taking SSRIs completely -> appendix ruptures -> narcotic based painkillers kick my dick in the dirt -> PAWS symptoms persist -> Me thinking the PAWS symptoms are the SSRIs not being out of my body -> mix in good days & bad days -> realize the SSRIs aren't in my system anymore and the symptoms are still there -> go see a cardiologist to see if it's my heart and told everything looks fine but a get a heart rate monitor to be safe -> fire previous behavior health specialist that kept throwing stuff at me instead of looking for the root cause -> start internet sleuthing to figure out what might be going on -> decide to visit the alcoholics thread on surly and make my first post -> today.

I'm trying to be thoughtful, deliberate, and cautious with how I handle things so I don't wind up in the same situation you did.  No offense.  I hope my explanation of the timeline clarifies things a bit.  It's been a rollercoaster to say the least.

Edited by GlenFromTheMailRoom
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Posted

Zoom meetings are ok for me now, I just use them as a mental self-check more than anything. They wouldn’t have done me any good when I was trying to quit. I needed to sit across the table from those old leathery bastards and try to dazzle them with bullshit. I wouldn’t have had that experience in a virtual meeting. 

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Posted
Apologies if my messages in this thread get long winded.  Consider this as part of my journaling exercises associated with the process.  I hope that anything shared in here might help others that are considering getting sober and if you need help to seek out the resources that are available.  I've learned that you can't start your recovery journey if you don't take the first step.
 
Today was a much better day.  Got a good nights sleep last night and no feelings of overwhelming anxiety today, no brain zaps, etc..  I went ahead and called Sage recovery center today and had a great conversation with the staff there.  They agreed that it sounded like PAWS and I went ahead and initiated the intake process to help manage my way through PAWS symptoms and to have a third party keep me accountable to seeing things through.  One fortunate part of the appendectomy is that now my out pocket is covered for the year, doing the evening outpatient program for 7 weeks would cost less than my old monthly booze expenditures. I'd do the inpatient but I have to work.  In addition to that, they have a clinician & psychiatrist onsite in the event any medication is required to help manage the PAWS symptoms.
The timeline went pretty much like this:  Panic Attack in early October -> first pass at tapering consumption -> get put on first round of SSRIs because of the panic attack -> PAWS symptoms kick in -> change SSRI because of symptoms -> repeat the last two steps two more times with trips to the er splashed in -> go two weeks without drinking just to fuck up and have a couple glasses of wine after a week of feeling okay -> ER the next day because of what I thought was SSRI side effects -> restart sobriety clock -> switch to THC drinks to help manage what I now know is PAWS symptoms -> stop taking SSRIs completely -> appendix ruptures -> narcotic based painkillers kick my dick in the dirt -> PAWS symptoms persist -> Me thinking the PAWS symptoms are the SSRIs not being out of my body -> mix in good days & bad days -> realize the SSRIs aren't in my system anymore and the symptoms are still there -> go see a cardiologist to see if it's my heart and told everything looks fine but a get a heart rate monitor to be safe -> fire previous behavior health specialist that kept throwing stuff at me instead of looking for the root cause -> start internet sleuthing to figure out what might be going on -> decide to visit the alcoholics thread on surly and make my first post -> today.
I'm trying to be thoughtful, deliberate, and cautious with how I handle things so I don't wind up in the same situation you did.  No offense.  I hope my explanation of the timeline clarifies things a bit.  It's been a rollercoaster to say the least.

https://www.northlandgroup.org/

Breathe.

Meetings should be your safe space.
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Posted

Funny story. I’ve been hoping my daughter would go to Al Anon.

She lives in Chicago, and is starting to get work as an extra in tv and films for some spare cash.

Today she shot an episode of The Bear, and you guessed it, she played an Al Anon at Jeremy Allen White’s meeting.

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Posted
47 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Funny story. I’ve been hoping my daughter would go to Al Anon.

She lives in Chicago, and is starting to get work as an extra in tv and films for some spare cash.

Today she shot an episode of The Bear, and you guessed it, she played an Al Anon at Jeremy Allen White’s meeting.

I mean, is this the one time that asking for pics of the daughter is actually appropriate?

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Posted
1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

She lives in Chicago, and is starting to get work as an extra in tv and films for some spare cash.

I had a buddy who did the same.

In no time, we all made fun of him because we saw his bare ass on an episode of The Red Shoe Diaries.

Posted
On 3/10/2025 at 7:13 PM, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

Apologies if my messages in this thread get long winded.  Consider this as part of my journaling exercises associated with the process.  I hope that anything shared in here might help others that are considering getting sober and if you need help to seek out the resources that are available.  I've learned that you can't start your recovery journey if you don't take the first step.

 

Today was a much better day.  Got a good nights sleep last night and no feelings of overwhelming anxiety today, no brain zaps, etc..  I went ahead and called Sage recovery center today and had a great conversation with the staff there.  They agreed that it sounded like PAWS and I went ahead and initiated the intake process to help manage my way through PAWS symptoms and to have a third party keep me accountable to seeing things through.  One fortunate part of the appendectomy is that now my out pocket is covered for the year, doing the evening outpatient program for 7 weeks would cost less than my old monthly booze expenditures. I'd do the inpatient but I have to work.  In addition to that, they have a clinician & psychiatrist onsite in the event any medication is required to help manage the PAWS symptoms.

That's good to know.  Are there any specific ones you recommend?  I've tried a few here and there but it was interment/spot dosing so that may be the reason I never noticed any benefits.  I think I may have similar issues with euphoric recall and have switched to kombucha mixed with soda water to have something to keep my drinking hand occupied.  That seems to be helping except.  The only downside to drinking that much water is that I have to piss every half hour.  I'm dropping the light dosing of THC drinks as well as I think that euphoric recall may be coming from those as well.  I hope I'm understanding and using that terminology correctly.

For the short term, I'm going to be using the nightly outpatient meetings to satisfy this part.  I worry that going to any informal meetings at this juncture might trigger something and kick me into anxious state.  When I have a better grasp on things, I do plan on attending weekly meetings near me.  I'm currently in the Lake Travis area if anyone has any recommendations for groups in the area.

 

The timeline went pretty much like this:  Panic Attack in early October -> first pass at tapering consumption -> get put on first round of SSRIs because of the panic attack -> PAWS symptoms kick in -> change SSRI because of symptoms -> repeat the last two steps two more times with trips to the er splashed in -> go two weeks without drinking just to fuck up and have a couple glasses of wine after a week of feeling okay -> ER the next day because of what I thought was SSRI side effects -> restart sobriety clock -> switch to THC drinks to help manage what I now know is PAWS symptoms -> stop taking SSRIs completely -> appendix ruptures -> narcotic based painkillers kick my dick in the dirt -> PAWS symptoms persist -> Me thinking the PAWS symptoms are the SSRIs not being out of my body -> mix in good days & bad days -> realize the SSRIs aren't in my system anymore and the symptoms are still there -> go see a cardiologist to see if it's my heart and told everything looks fine but a get a heart rate monitor to be safe -> fire previous behavior health specialist that kept throwing stuff at me instead of looking for the root cause -> start internet sleuthing to figure out what might be going on -> decide to visit the alcoholics thread on surly and make my first post -> today.

I'm trying to be thoughtful, deliberate, and cautious with how I handle things so I don't wind up in the same situation you did.  No offense.  I hope my explanation of the timeline clarifies things a bit.  It's been a rollercoaster to say the least.

Glen, how are you feeling, lately?  

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