I'm An Alcoholic

[TwiceHorn 31440]

15 minutes ago, thestud said:

I really do think the reason he wouldn’t go to more meetings was his pride/ego. He’s a big badass fireman, and before that he was a no-shit concertina wire eatin’, napalm pissing marine.

We’ve had the talk numerous times over the course of his attempted recovery that he can’t be that way. That he has to communicate with us and be open and honest. We’ve tried at every turn to make him understand that we don’t judge him and we aren’t mad at him; that we’re here for him to lean on. It doesn’t seem to be getting through and I’m not sure how to make him understand.

What put him on the path to recovery in the first place?

[TwiceHorn 31440]

16 minutes ago, thestud said:

We caught him drinking mouthwash and vanilla extract at work.

Aha.  What kind of consequences at work, home, with the law, etc.?  Reason I ask is that typically pride isn't that big a barrier.  Even the biggest milquetoast wuss has a core that really, really doesn't want to admit that they're an alcoholic or get help, and it turns out that that core is just as hard as the leader of Seal Team Six.  But, when the consequences start hitting is when that pride falls away.

If he hasn't experienced many consequences, and getting busted drinking mouthwash, until now, was kind of his threshold event, he thought the problem was getting caught, not him.  In this twilight period between acknowledging a real problem and accepting help, the consequences tend to come fast, hard and undeniable, and that's when that pride gets knocked down sufficiently to make some progress.

The religion/higher power thing, and as Celery brilliantly observes, when they decide to be mad about it, tends to be a stickier wicket.  Pride has a way of taking care of itself with this disease.

Edited May 30, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Dewey 3286]

I didn't have a job, didnt really want one
Wife left me
Friends and family wouldnt talk with me, save for.my mother who would yell at me and my brother constantly asking me what the fuck?

This guy still has a job?

My second treatment center I handed them my phone and the guy gave it back, then told me the doors are left open, I can leave anytime, "we give you enough rope to hang yourself"

If you dont want to get sober, no one can make you. Basically they told me not to waste their time if I didnt want it.

You have to lose a lot, sometimes too much before you can gain anything

[BearSchlong 8083]

Checking in.

Happy to be safe, sober, and reasonably sane today.

Got 2 new sponsee when I returned from vacation.  Retreads, both over 30, asses thoroughly and repeatedly kicked.  We'll see how it turns out.

I'm in gratitude.

@thestud any updates on your man?

Edited June 5, 2019 by BearSchlong

[BearSchlong 8083]

Pride and Ego will kill an alcoholic.  Nothing is more liberating than losing total control, being broke, busted and bankrupt and realizing the world keeps spinning, the sun keeps rising, the birds keep chirping, etc. whether we participate in it or not.  I hope your buddy gets to that spot where he's able to admit complete defeat.

[Sparky 149]

I cleared day 1,000 on the sober ride at midnight last night and that is a hell of a milestone for me to think about.  I remember thinking 5 days was amazing and to now think it's a grand is mind boggling to me.  That's a lot of damn days, but now just shuffle my way thru this one.

[Dertyberd 394]

Atta boy Sparky. 

Your post and the one from Bear just made me reflect on going to treatment. 5 days is  a massive deal and I got those first 5 in a facility trying to save my life. I remember when the haze started to lift thinking, “I don’t really belong here, I’m better than this, and what are the people back home saying about me?” 

I quickly remembered I was there because I couldn’t stop on my own. It’s not normal to plan my day around alcohol and most thoughts were about the next drink. I could be better than the version of me who was in there if I chose to let go and allow someone else guide me for a while. In time I realized the only people talking about me back home were the ones who loved me or had problems of their own. Only the former mattered from that day forward. It’s amazing how easy that part sorts itself out  

If you’re thinking about change and are scared, know that we were all freaking the fuck out. The scariest part is the ask for help. Everything after that is just a ride. Much love, happy days. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

26 minutes ago, Dertyberd said:

The scariest part is the ask for help. Everything after that is just a ride. Much love, happy days. 

This made me realize I hadn't really thought about the scariest part for me. The whole thing in the beginning was such a blur, after a year I'm still piecing together things I haven't thought about or they just pop into my head at random times and I get the "oh yeah, that's what happened" moment. 

I think the scariest part for me was not admitting that I had a problem, I always knew I did. There was no denial stage for me. It was always the "I know I have a problem, but I don't give a fuck stage". Maybe that's part of the denial stage too, I don't know. The scariest part for me was having zero confidence that I could stop. Why even try if I know I'm going to fail, right? It's that great alcoholic mind that comes up with excuses so easily that we put all others to shame that try to compete with our bullshit. 

[Dertyberd 394]

6 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

 

I think the scariest part for me was not admitting that I had a problem, I always knew I did. There was no denial stage for me. It was always the "I know I have a problem, but I don't give a fuck stage.”

Wow! That’s heavy, and big props to you for making it through. I knew I was slowly killing myself and I wanted a life because I couldn’t continue with the one I had and death was any day or alone and miserable.  I was lucky to be caught in a moment where I saw that I had a chance and I took it. 

What you did takes strength beyond what I experienced. Love hearing stories like that. Cheers man. 

[B00M 6414]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:52 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

I believe that IF I had addressed my childhood traumas before I learned to drink like an alcoholic, then I might be able to drink moderately today. 

HOWEVER, I did not. And over the last 30 years I hardwired my brain into hardcore alcoholism. If I had healed my issues 20, 25 years ago, maybe it would have been possible to be a normie, maybe even spin one off every now and then with few if any consequences.

That ship has not just sailed, but also hit an iceberg and sunk. I KNOW I cannot drink moderately, because I just don't have any interest in it. It always bottles my mind when I hear people say "If only I could have a glass of wine with dinner." Fuck that shit. I know if I picked up again it would be a handle a day within a few weeks. 

So...I drink just a little bit less than a normie. Meaning not at all. The only alternative for me is to drink like a Russian. 

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

15 minutes ago, B00M said:

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

I was never truly sober, never felt truly drunk or truly hungover, but I was just miserable around the clock. I'd start in on that thing the minute I got out of bed. Most mornings I'd dry-heave and gag on the first couple of chugs but it was smooth sailing into another horrible day in purgatory after that. It is a wretched existence. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

21 minutes ago, B00M said:

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

A) Tolerance B) You really don't stop drinking long enough for the hangover to fully kick in.  That said, handle a day for most alkies is getting toward end-stage territory.  But when an alkie says "handle a day," they mean nursing it steady from say 7AM to 10PM or midnight, not a normal binge of say 7 to 2.  Oddly enough, when you get into the real end-stage, lesser quantities are required to achieve intoxication.  Part of what Maybe refers to there is going into faster suicide mode.

 

Most of us who have recovered realize that even though it happened for us, it was a near thing.  We often say we may have more drinks in us, but we don't have another sobriety.  Part of that is the depth of our belief in our powerlessness, and part of it is plain, unadulterated fear of going back there.

Edited June 9, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[gasman 114]

17 minutes ago, B00M said:

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

I would wake up feeling absolutely horrible, vow that I was done with alcohol (and sincerely mean it). By lunch, I was feeling ok, by 5pm I felt fine and would hit the liquor store thinking this time it would be different and I would moderate my intake better. After the first drink, I was off and running, wake up feeling horrible. Rinse. Wash. Repeat. 

[El Diablo 4232]

I drank enough to break my thinker, my knower and my feeler. All that was left was my doer. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

 Oddly enough, when you get into the real end-stage, lesser quantities are required to achieve intoxication.  Part of what Maybe refers to there is going into faster suicide mode.

 

 

It's also a sign of serious liver damage because you can't process alcohol like a normal liver anymore. That end stage liver disease that is the point of no return, medically, isn't something that alcoholics care to think about. That, and like you and others have said, there is no real sober time in most alcoholics life. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

9 hours ago, thestud said:

 

 

This is where my friend is at. The doctor last week told him he wouldn’t survive another withdrawal. Hell this one almost killed him, he was in icu for a day and a half and had been hallucinating for several days prior to that. I hope and pray that he can get right, mainly because I’m quite certain of what is going to happen to him if he doesn’t.

 

 

Did they do an ultrasound? I'm sure they did, whether you were told about it or not. Those DT's and hallucinations are what happened to me on my last withdrawl and it was caused by liver disease. It might not be too late if he can quit, but it sounds like he's at the point where it has probably already shortened his life. That doesn't mean that he can't have some good years left, but it sounds like there are only 2 ways out at this point. 

I feel for you, man. You and the people that care about him don't deserve to have it put on their plate. 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Did they do an ultrasound? I'm sure they did, whether you were told about it or not. Those DT's and hallucinations are what happened to me on my last withdrawl and it was caused by liver disease. It might not be too late if he can quit, but it sounds like he's at the point where it has probably already shortened his life. That doesn't mean that he can't have some good years left, but it sounds like there are only 2 ways out at this point. 

I feel for you, man. You and the people that care about him don't deserve to have it put on their plate. 

 

Despite my best efforts I was unable to completely destroy my liver and was astonished when they told me its function was only slightly irregular when I was admitted to treatment and had returned to normal a few weeks later. It is truly an amazing organ. 

[Celery Man 20933]

yeah I could't believe it when they came back and didn't tell me that I was totally fucked and would be dead in a couple of years.

in retrospect, I think I was probably suffering from pancreatitis or something like that for a while towards the end of my drinking days.  i was pretty sure that was everything shutting down and that I had missed the boat in terms of "someday I'll quit and turn things around". which gave me crazy bad anxiety, which I already had because of how I was feeling and how (if I was thinking about this) I didn't have enough alcohol in me (and probably how I was laying in a puddle of sweat or hunched over the toilet).  the only way to not feel that way that I was aware of was to drink.  Feeling that horrible, and then feeling pretty OK after 5 or so beers, was fucking insane.

I was still in that state and at what point was watching "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", the episode "The Gang Gets Quarantined".  Premise is that there's a flu outbreak and the gang locks themselves in the bar, sealed off from the outside world.  One by one each of them is suspected to have been exposed and they are further quarantined in the bathroom, where they all get deathly sick.  Charlie reveals that he has been hiding booze in the bleach containers, and they decide they might as well get drunk.  Which leads to this scene.  Which hit WAY FUCKING TOO CLOSE TO HOME when I was watching it

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

43 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

yeah I could't believe it when they came back and didn't tell me that I was totally fucked and would be dead in a couple of years.

in retrospect, I think I was probably suffering from pancreatitis or something like that for a while towards the end of my drinking days.  i was pretty sure that was everything shutting down and that I had missed the boat in terms of "someday I'll quit and turn things around". which gave me crazy bad anxiety, which I already had because of how I was feeling and how (if I was thinking about this) I didn't have enough alcohol in me (and probably how I was laying in a puddle of sweat or hunched over the toilet).  the only way to not feel that way that I was aware of was to drink.  Feeling that horrible, and then feeling pretty OK after 5 or so beers, was fucking insane.

I was still in that state and at what point was watching "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", the episode "The Gang Gets Quarantined".  Premise is that there's a flu outbreak and the gang locks themselves in the bar, sealed off from the outside world.  One by one each of them is suspected to have been exposed and they are further quarantined in the bathroom, where they all get deathly sick.  Charlie reveals that he has been hiding booze in the bleach containers, and they decide they might as well get drunk.  Which leads to this scene.  Which hit WAY FUCKING TOO CLOSE TO HOME when I was watching it

 

Yeah, but at least they had each other, lol...Something I think is underreported is how the Internet can facilitate isolation and then greatly abet alcoholism. You can always find some drunks on the Internet. As a matter of fact, I've even heard that some have been known to make their way to this very web site! (Shocking, I know.) But you don't feel quite as bad in your self-created solitary confinement as you might have when you could just yell at your TV or make your family's life even more miserable than drunks do today. You can fight people or laugh with them on the Internet. Who needs a bar?

[Reagan1k 3024]

On 6/8/2019 at 8:49 PM, B00M said:

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

In reflection, it had been so long since I actually felt "well" that I didn't realize that I was in a perpetual state of a drunken hangover.  There were no longer any acute feelings.  I once told my wife that I don't get hungover, when in hindsight the reality was that I never left a hangover so that I could get back there.

I'd tell you I was tired, or didn't sleep well, but never thought I was hungover.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

In reflection, it had been so long since I actually felt "well" that I didn't realize that I was in a perpetual state of a drunken hangover.  There were no longer any acute feelings.  I once told my wife that I don't get hungover, when in hindsight the reality was that I never left a hangover so that I could get back there.

I'd tell you I was tired, or didn't sleep well, but never thought I was hungover.

 

"Sleep" pretty much ceases to exist. There are a few hours here and there when you are not awake, but they have very little resemblance to what most people think of as restful, rejuvenating, recharging sleep.

I read this nugget passed along from a meeting in North Carolina: "Today, I say 'Good Morning, God!' And I used to say 'Good God, it's morning.'"

[Sparky 149]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:49 PM, B00M said:

Stupid question:  how can anyone drink a handle in a day and not feel absolutely miserable the next day? Do you actually feel miserable but use the next handle to cope?

I often wondered why others had a hangover and I never did and it was because I never let it stop, as others have mentioned.  What I didn't realize, till I got sober for about 15 days, was I just got used to feeling like shit all the time.  Like just taking some Advil several times a day for a painful back I just drank early and often for my hangover and thought "well this is just the way I am, nothing I can do about it".  A few weeks back I had a bad stomach virus and for about 36 hours it felt like a terrible hangover, basically the same thing dehydrated, headache and couldn't eat.  And that was a perfect reminder of what will happen now if I was to take a drink.  It was miserable.

[BearSchlong 8083]

@thestud

about the posts where you said your buddy was in ICU and was simultaneously worried about his job.

That is such a great illustration of alcoholism.  We can be DYING yet are more concerned about something that is relatively insignificant like a job.

Reminds me about the Egotistical Lawyer (or salesman, doctor, athlete, whoever) who won a big judgement and went out and bought a new Ferarri (in the original version, it was a lexus, but i'm an alcoholic so I'm going to embellesh a bit)

Drive back to his law firm and parked that car by the curb, called up to his firm and told his partners to come see his new car.

They did, and as he was showing them the interior a truck whizzed by, blowing the open drivers side door off it's hinges and almost running over the man.

He shrieked "you've ruined my car, you sunufabitch!"

His partner, who by now was pale as a sheet and looking faint, said "dumbass, that truck not only hit your car, it ripped off your arm!"

The victim looked down, moaned, and yelled "oh no my ROLEX!!!"

I know I've told that one before, but it still makes me laugh.

With that I'll wish Alcoholics Anonymous a very happy 84th Birthday.

June 10 was Dr. Bob's last drink, the day AA considers it's anniversary.

One of my engineers (A guy who over the years has admitted a problem, but has basically been reasonably functional) and I spent a few days in the field last week, visiting customers. During the drive over, he was telling me about how he got a prescription for Naltrexon and how awesome it is.

He offered to give it to me, that way I won't have to go to those AA meetings anymore.

I chortled and said nothing.

No I'm not pissing on the Sinclair method, I'm just reporting the conversation.

 

[BearSchlong 8083]

3 hours ago, Sparky said:

I often wondered why others had a hangover and I never did and it was because I never let it stop, as others have mentioned.  What I didn't realize, till I got sober for about 15 days, was I just got used to feeling like shit all the time.  Like just taking some Advil several times a day for a painful back I just drank early and often for my hangover and thought "well this is just the way I am, nothing I can do about it".  A few weeks back I had a bad stomach virus and for about 36 hours it felt like a terrible hangover, basically the same thing dehydrated, headache and couldn't eat.  And that was a perfect reminder of what will happen now if I was to take a drink.  It was miserable.

Those mornings when I'd be off the reservation, away on business, my then-wife nowhere nearby to punch me for drinking. . .drunk near-sleep, wake up and get in the shower, realize I was still drunk but had a whole day worth of meetings. . .ugh.  Spending the whole day trying to act like nothing happened or that I was doing a great job, just trying to get through so I could get back to the hotel bar.  Ouch. Bonus if I didn't have a female coworker from a different branch office with me when I came to in that hotel room.

[TexArcher 37771]

5 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

"Sleep" pretty much ceases to exist. There are a few hours here and there when you are not awake, but they have very little resemblance to what most people think of as restful, rejuvenating, recharging sleep.

This was me.  I'd pass out drunk and sleep roughly 4 hours, then I'd wake up having to piss.  Then of course I wasn't drunk enough to fall asleep again.  So a few more pulls from the handle of cheap vodka in the freezer (because who actually mixes drinks?) would knock me out again, but then I'd be too hungover (physically ill) to go to work.  So do I go in exhausted but not hungover (allegedly) or give myself a decent night's sleep and call in to work again?

That debate was every night for the last several years of my drinking career, once I aged out of the ability to power through the workday no matter what.  I went from a highly functional alcoholic to someone who lies to a doctor about chronic migraines to excuse his chronic work absences so he doesn't get fired.

Good times.

[El Diablo 4232]

^^ That all sounds very reasonable to me. Not lying.  

[Reagan1k 3024]

Yep - I'm not hung over...but I'm going to leave a client's office at 10am after making a presentation and go park at a Best Buy, climb in the back seat and "take a nap" before heading back to my office.

Reasonable, manageable and what all the big shot executives are doing these days.  No problems here.

[El Diablo 4232]

I'd of missed the meeting with the client because I'd "overslept" and been awoken at 10 a.m. by my boss who had flown into town and was banging on the hotel room door. Allegedly.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Morning drinking was a huge cliff I stepped off of because...fuck pain and reflection.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

On 6/10/2019 at 11:20 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

"Sleep" pretty much ceases to exist. There are a few hours here and there when you are not awake, but they have very little resemblance to what most people think of as restful, rejuvenating, recharging sleep.

I read this nugget passed along from a meeting in North Carolina: "Today, I say 'Good Morning, God!' And I used to say 'Good God, it's morning.'"

Larroquette used to say that on his show, in which he portrayed a recovering alcoholic while also being one.  It was quite hilarious.  I bet it would be more meaningful now.

[TexArcher 37771]

21 hours ago, El Diablo said:

^^ That all sounds very reasonable to me. Not lying.  

Oh, it made perfect sense in my head at the time.  Even the thought of "giving myself a decent night's sleep for a change" -- having several more shots of vodka so I could pass out again was actually the humane thing to do, see?  And I was on FMLA for the migraines, so all they could do was make it an unpaid day at work.  So yeah, more vodka and more sleep, clearly.  I mean, if I couldn't fall back asleep and went to work, I'd have to have some vodka in a few hours to stop the shakes anyway, so what's the difference?

I was a lunatic.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

I was a lunatic.

so much good stuff on the past few pages, hope to have time to comment in more depth, but this is one of those things that we say ("insanity", "crazy", etc) that I think people outside the program just assume is a verbal flourish. But it's not crazy with air quotes. When we're drinking, we are fucking insane. The disconnect between how we act and how we would act/react were our brains not pickled is astonishing; it's just that we and the people around us get used to our degradation. There was no obvious path from how I saw the world and interacted with it at 17 or 27 or 37, and my end stages of alcoholism-- at any one of those prior stages, I could have said "absolutely not, absolutely never" to stuff I didn't bat an eye at towards the end.

That is insanity.

[Reagan1k 3024]

 

19 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That is insanity.

It is insanity, and yet it is also the tie that binds us; enabling one alcoholic to extend the hand of help to another alcoholic when all the physicians, psychiatrists, clergy, and well meaning loved ones on the planet can't.

IIRC it was Clancy who talked about his 1st sponsor explaining to him that at that time, the wealthiest man in America sat in AA rooms multiple times per week out in CA. 

The sponsor explained to Clancy that this AA member could have purchased scores of hospitals, treatment centers, and put the best medical minds in the world on his personal staff at his beck and call, but instead simply went to AA meetings and worked the steps with other drunks.....none of whom he likely had any thing with which to relate...other than being a drunk.

Many of us don't remember anything about our 1st few meetings, other than that comfortable feeling of finally being home among people with whom we could finally relate.

 

[TexArcher 37771]

22 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

this is one of those things that we say ("insanity", "crazy", etc) that I think people outside the program just assume is a verbal flourish. But it's not crazy with air quotes. When we're drinking, we are fucking insane.

Absolutely.

A chronic alcoholic operates in a self-constructed reality that is only loosely connected to everyone else's reality.  It's one step shy of full-blown loss of reality contact, the textbook definition of psychosis.

I think of it like a black hole where there's so much gravitational pull that the rules of physics break down.  In my alcoholic mind, the pull toward the next drink was so strong that all the rules of logic and self-preservation broke down.  I was a finger puppet; I existed to go to the liquor store and pour the booze down my throat.  And I didn't even have to rationalize it.  It was just the nature of things.

[TexArcher 37771]

Double post

Edited June 12, 2019 by TexArcher

[BearSchlong 8083]

21 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I'd of missed the meeting with the client because I'd "overslept" and been awoken at 10 a.m. by my boss who had flown into town and was banging on the hotel room door. Allegedly.

One night my company hired Hootie and the Blowfish to play an intimate client event at the WDW Conference Center. Scotch Whisky ensued.  I specifically remember sitting with Zack Thomas and Dan Marino and Zack shook his head and told me I was "out of control"

1pm the next day the hotel security manager was banging on my door.  My wife, who was due with our daughter back in Texas, thought she was going into labor and could not reach me.

Monday when I returned to work I was contacted by a VP in my company who was trying to understand why I tried to kick his ass during the party.  Amazed I didn't get fired.

This story is not a humblebrag.  It hurt my ex wife tremendously.

A month later we did the same type of event at a hotel in NOLA with the B-52s.  I was told in no uncertain terms by my ex that I was prohibited from attending the cocktail party, that I was to make the 5pm flight back to SATX.

Newborn baby at home and I had a huge resentment against her for interfering with my fun.

#teaminsanity

 

[El Diablo 4232]

Sounds about right. In my case we did eventually lose the client due to my inability to manage things. That was in '87 and I was 27 years old and making wayyy more money than I knew what to do with. There was a huge opportunity there and I blew it not only for myself but for the company as well. The owner of the company I was working for sent his son to take my place, this was in PA, but the damage was done. I think they completed some work that was already contracted but that was the end of it. I got sober a couple years later and that lasted up thru '02 when I went off the rails for another 14 years. I'm just a normal guy.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

12 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

One night my company hired Hootie and the Blowfish to play an intimate client event at the WDW Conference Center. Scotch Whisky ensued.  I specifically remember sitting with Zack Thomas and Dan Marino and Zack shook his head and told me I was "out of control"

1pm the next day the hotel security manager was banging on my door.  My wife, who was due with our daughter back in Texas, thought she was going into labor and could not reach me.

Monday when I returned to work I was contacted by a VP in my company who was trying to understand why I tried to kick his ass during the party.  Amazed I didn't get fired.

This story is not a humblebrag.  It hurt my ex wife tremendously.

A month later we did the same type of event at a hotel in NOLA with the B-52s.  I was told in no uncertain terms by my ex that I was prohibited from attending the cocktail party, that I was to make the 5pm flight back to SATX.

Newborn baby at home and I had a huge resentment against her for interfering with my fun.

#teaminsanity

 

Well, at least you didn't try to kick Zack Thomas's ass.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 6/11/2019 at 9:43 PM, JohnnyRage said:

Morning drinking was a huge cliff I stepped off of because...fuck pain and reflection.

I would like to change my answer to 'change'. I have always been contemplative, but too undisciplined, fearful, and selfish to make substantive healthful spiritual Change.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

8 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

I would like to change my answer to 'change'. I have always been contemplative, but too undisciplined, fearful, and selfish to make substantive healthful spiritual Change.

That's good stuff, God knows I never lacked for an interest in myself. Identifying problems, and my role in them, and then changing to address them... nah I'm more of an idea guy.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Found the answer.

 

 

 

 

[hullabelew 3723]

Got a chance to meet Travis Meadows recently.  His album, "Killin' Uncle Buzzy" is fantastic.   

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Random thought: which thread has more "alumni" here: the shart thread, or the "Who likes drinking in their garage alone?" thread? Come to think of it there is probably significant overlap between those two.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@hullabelew Thanks, rather poignant for me right now. Ex came back. Ex went away. I've found her harder to quit than alcohol. But this time seems rather final.

[Not a cat 5652]

10 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

@hullabelew Thanks, rather poignant for me right now. Ex came back. Ex went away. I've found her harder to quit than alcohol. But this time seems rather final.

I've read somewhere that the chemical reaction of dopamine, serotonin and other various chemicals that hit men's brain when they are first falling in love is most similar to the chemical reactions caused by heroin.  Like an addict, people are willing to do anything to get that feeling back.  Observing behavior of some guys that have lost their partner it is often quite similar to an addict suffering withdrawals.  

[Dewey 3286]

[mention=1112]hullabelew[/mention] Thanks, rather poignant for me right now. Ex came back. Ex went away. I've found her harder to quit than alcohol. But this time seems rather final.

Same for me, heard a guy say that when he finally let go, the things he let go of all had claw marks. Hulla's post and yours tells me we're never alone. I like to think I've turned my loneliness into solitude, that I'm not ashamed to say when I have a day off and am alone, i read, pray and meditate many times a day. I try and turn my pride into love, it works, but i can feel pride right there on the other side waiting to burst out. Same goes for my anger, but I'm so tired of being angry. I know what my faults are, and while I cant apologize to each person, specifically my ex everyday, I do in prayer and pray she is picking up the pieces, living a better life. Half of me wants to talk with her, the other half is fine with letting it go.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I always assumed that it would take two people to be in a codependent relationship.

Nah, just me will do. 

 

 

Its it’s not as bad as it sounds. I’m more emotional and sensitive. She’s more rational and escapist. Needing someone is not rational, and relationships that are not logistically feasible are somewhat easier  to maintain the illusion. And me on a soapbox is not a good look. 

But getting my family back has been my goal for the past four years. Time to move forward. 

 

Thanks for listening. Wrong thread.

[Kennythetiger 9376]

Right thread, dipshit.  That's why we're here.  

[hullabelew 3723]

Another one from Travis, with a great intro into what the song means.  

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 6/18/2019 at 8:51 AM, Not a cat said:

I've read somewhere that the chemical reaction of dopamine, serotonin and other various chemicals that hit men's brain when they are first falling in love is most similar to the chemical reactions caused by heroin.  Like an addict, people are willing to do anything to get that feeling back.  Observing behavior of some guys that have lost their partner it is often quite similar to an addict suffering withdrawals.  

First time I quit drinking, back in 2009, it was supereasy because I was madly in love. As those love chemicals returned to normal levels, I decided it was a good idea to start drinking again in 2010. I didn't go straight back in the gutter, but within three years I'd set a firm course toward wrecking my life and almost losing it five years after that.