I'm An Alcoholic

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

22 minutes ago, Sparky said:

The first group conscience meeting I went to I was shocked at what a difference from a meeting it was, it did have more of a chair throwing tone to it.  Good to hear it's not just my home group.

semi-similarly, we have a "non-meeting meeting" Tuesday mornings at someone's house-- we rotate the topic, right now we're listening to Joe and Charlie, before that it was reading through the 12&12, before that reading through Language of the Heart. And it too has a way different atmosphere, I talk a hell of a lot more in that meeting. Not sure if it's just more relaxed or if it's because we sit in a circle and I can see everyone as I talk. but the vibe is way cool

[BearSchlong 8077]

Best group conscious meeting I've ever attended - the topic was my sponsor, and was he allowed to deploy the cell phone jamming device he bought from China over the internet.  He'd sit it on the couch arm, turn it on, and witness the confusion as all the chronic phone watchers lost connectivity.

He gave up after a few weeks.

My 6:45 am Friday morning book study is an all cross-talk meeting - for all practical purposes - though it's official and on our intergroup schedule.

Edited March 13, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Augustus 3061]

Well, it's finally official.  AA works.  And not just as well as CBT or other evidence based practices, but significantly better.

It's a tremendous exercise in confirming the patently obvious, but hey, better late than never.

Study confirms AA works better than other models.

[Not a cat 5615]

I have no doubt AA works but I've always questioned any specific numbers about how successful any program is, especially if it relies on self reported numbers.

Active alcoholics tend to lie a lot, recovered ones tend to tell the truth.  Both will say they're not drinking. Kind of hard to separate the two in studies.

[Augustus 3061]

3 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I have no doubt AA works but I've always questioned any specific numbers about how successful any program is, especially if it relies on self reported numbers.

Active alcoholics tend to lie a lot, recovered ones tend to tell the truth.  Both will say they're not drinking. Kind of hard to separate the two in studies.

Don't confuse how well a program works with how well people actually put it into practice.  

You can develop a medication that cures cancer, but if people don't take it, they'll stay sick.

Thus, my point was more to say, "Well no shit?" than to comment on whatever "success rates" they claim to have found in their study.

Anybody who's been around AA for any significant length of time knows that the program works beautifully for anyone who puts it into action honestly and consistently a day at a time.  For those who don't... Surprise!  It isn't very effective.

[Celery Man 20881]

Anyone ever watch “28 Days”? Older Sandra Bullock movie with middling to bad reviews, where she plays an alcoholic who goes to rehab. Not a just great movie or anything, but I thought it was interesting as it was maybe one of the more real depictions of rehab I’ve seen. Critics said it mixed too much humor in with the serious topic, but that was an absurd and funny place.

[Augustus 3061]

Just now, Celery Man said:

Anyone ever watch “28 Days”? Older Sandra Bullock movie with middling to bad reviews, where she plays an alcoholic who goes to rehab. Not a just great movie or anything, but I thought it was interesting as it was maybe one of the more real depictions of rehab I’ve seen. Critics said it mixed too much humor in with the serious topic, but that was an absurd and funny place.

Guess which critics have never been in rehab/12 step programs.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

15 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I have no doubt AA works but I've always questioned any specific numbers about how successful any program is, especially if it relies on self reported numbers.

Active alcoholics tend to lie a lot, recovered ones tend to tell the truth.  Both will say they're not drinking. Kind of hard to separate the two in studies.

Those problems will attend any study of any type of program of recovery.  So unless there's a reason to believe that AA attendees are less reliable than addicts undergoing other treatment modalities, I think you have to assume that it comes out in the wash.

Edited March 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Augustus 3061]

Following up on the study discussion above...

When I worked in admissions for treatment centers, and now as I work in professional intervention, I think the thing I most often hear from addicts and their families is the classic, "Well he went to AA a couple of times, but that didn't work."

Stop.  Just stop lying to me right this moment.

Little Johnny may have "gone to" AA, but he did not do the work, or we wouldn't be talking right now.

[Augustus 3061]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Those problems will attend any study of any type of program of recovery.  So unless there's a reason to believe that AA attendees are less reliable than addicts undergoing other treatment modalities, I think you have to assume that it comes out in the wash.

It also seems reasonable to me that a program like AA might appear to have higher "success rates" (much and all as I hate that concept as applied to recovery programs).

When comparing two populations, one being to a significant extent voluntary and the other being mostly compelled, it seems reasonable that the group mostly seeking recovery on their own will have longer terms of sobriety than those being sent to treatment by work, the military, the courts, medical licensing boards, etc.

It's anecdotal, but one of the programs I worked for in Scottsdale relied almost entirely on referrals from Long Island Helps.  Nearly all the patients in that facility were from New York and merely jumping through hoops for their union/employer, with no intention of staying clean and sober post-treatment, nor did they make any bones about this.  Got pretty discouraging some days, as it felt like a colossal waste of everyone's time.  Though who knows, maybe some seeds got planted.

[Celery Man 20881]

This definitely begs the question/is circular/etc but a lot of the desperation to specifically not do AA is a manifestation of not admitting powerlessness, which is a precursor to failure.

[ocugolf 1210]

Stay strong boys and girls if COVID cancels meetings and quarantines grow larger. Historically idle time isn’t the best for my sobriety. 

[TwiceHorn 31240]

29 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

Stay strong boys and girls if COVID cancels meetings and quarantines grow larger. Historically idle time isn’t the best for my sobriety. 

Lots of good websites and online meetings.  Literature can be a good time soak.

Also:

Days of Wine And Roses

The Lost Weekend

When A Man Loves A Woman

Clean and Sober

The aforementioned 28 Days

Leaving Las Vegas

[Kennythetiger 9334]

Everything Must Go

On The Bowery 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 3/14/2020 at 12:09 PM, Augustus said:

Well, it's finally official.  AA works.  And not just as well as CBT or other evidence based practices, but significantly better.

It's a tremendous exercise in confirming the patently obvious, but hey, better late than never.

Study confirms AA works better than other models.

That is a strangely not thorough  article with some weird quotes.

[Genco 3038]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Lots of good websites and online meetings.  Literature can be a good time soak.

Also:

When A Man Loves A Woman

Took my high school girlfriend to see that back in the mid 90s. I figured great date movie/Meg Ryan/getting laid afterwards will be a no brainer.

Things did not go as planned.

[Augustus 3061]

On 3/14/2020 at 11:14 AM, Celery Man said:

This definitely begs the question/is circular/etc but a lot of the desperation to specifically not do AA is a manifestation of not admitting powerlessness, which is a precursor to failure.

The Higher Power is an excuse for just as many, or more.

If anything's become apparent to me in treatment related jobs, it's that all objections to treatment/AA/therapy/etc are really the same objection:

"I don't want to change."

Personal powerlessness, spirituality, inpatient rehab that takes us away from jobs/families...  These are all convenient excuses.  The reason almost all of us alkies/addicts die from this disease is the simple inability to give it up in favor of alternative solution.   

 

[El Diablo 4232]

There's probably a lot of paths to the same destination. Staying on one of those paths thru to the end is the trick. "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed OUR path". Frequently we have seen people fail who did NOT thoroughly follow our path or any other path for that matter. I don't want to step on any toes or have this come across the wrong way but I DO think that we AA alkies because of our experience tend to become overly attached to our path as the only or best path. And by that I mean we as a movement have taken some ownership of our "type" of alcoholism - that is the type that only AA could fix if applied. Those who get sober taking other paths are because of that other path not alcoholics like us.

I'm not sure where this was going but I think my point was that regardless of what studies show I think staying on A path, completely, will probably have a good outcome.

Hope that makes sense.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

19 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

There's probably a lot of paths to the same destination. Staying on one of those paths thru to the end is the trick. "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed OUR path". Frequently we have seen people fail who did NOT thoroughly follow our path or any other path for that matter. I don't want to step on any toes or have this come across the wrong way but I DO think that we AA alkies because of our experience tend to become overly attached to our path as the only or best path. And by that I mean we as a movement have taken some ownership of our "type" of alcoholism - that is the type that only AA could fix if applied. Those who get sober taking other paths are because of that other path not alcoholics like us.

I'm not sure where this was going but I think my point was that regardless of what studies show I think staying on A path, completely, will probably have a good outcome.

Hope that makes sense.

I tend to agree that AA probably does not have the monopoly on healthy sobriety.

But, one big thing is, there's no path in most of the other solutions.  It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, until hopefully at some point you don't start drinking again.

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I tend to agree that AA probably does not have the monopoly on healthy sobriety.

But, one big thing is, there's no path in most of the other solutions.  It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, until hopefully at some point you don't start drinking again.

I agree. I'm not sure there's any other way to sober folks up that is as clear, concise and formulaic as AA. Our "bragging rights", such as they are, come as much from the failures and the examples that they set as they do from the successes. Because it is life and death there is very little gray area in the minds of many of the survivors.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

15 hours ago, Augustus said:

If anything's become apparent to me in treatment related jobs, it's that all objections to treatment/AA/therapy/etc are really the same objection:

"I don't want to change."

I used to be like that. "God, I am disappointed or dissatisfied with every single aspect of my life and it drives me to drink! Make it better, but don't change anything."

[BearSchlong 8077]

The Episcopal Church (at least in Texas) is closed for the duration, unsure if other churches will follow suit - about half our local meetings take place on various church properties, so it looks like it's meetings at dedicated AA facilities for a while.

What SwanderedTalent said reminds me of something - Tuesday nights I bring meetings to the local treatment facility.  About 30 guys averaging a week or two clean/sober.  At the beginning of the meeting they always ask one of the patients to recite the 3rd step prayer from memory.  Last week the guy did exactly what I did when I first memorized that prayer, saying "God I offer myself to thee, to build with me and do with me what thou wilt.  Take away my difficulties. . .wait, that's not right. . .ah, uh, . . ."

It's just like an alcoholic to demand that god take away our difficulties and forget that nothing happens until we address the whole bondage of self thing.

Also, my conversations with my higher power (God) are both reverent and profane.  Sometimes I have to yell at the big comedy writer in the sky - "hey asshole, why is this happening, what am I supposed to learn! and oh by the way thanks for keeping me sober just for today."  It ain't sacrilege, it's sobriety.  To me, it's progress that I'm no longer trying to hide from God.  He made me, so he gets to deal with the good, the bad, and the ugly.

 

[Celery Man 20881]

I gotta come clean about something

[J.R. 150]

I really find Waterloo to be disgusting. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Blackberry Bubly is in the mix for me these days, but its the one flavor my local HEB is constantly out of when its open. Except weirdly two days ago when there was one eight-pack left in a Covid Panic ravaged aisle. 

[Dewey 3280]

Thankful I'm not an active drunk during this crisis.  That's all I got. 

Glad to see some humor here, hope everyone is staying calm, wearing the world like a loose garment. 🙂

[Kennythetiger 9334]

This thing would have been a dream come true for me when I was drinking. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

57 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

This thing would have been a dream come true for me when I was drinking. 

Cosigned, with the proviso that I never lived in a state with a liquor control board (or whatever they're called) like the one in Pennsylvania that's closing the stores. 

1 hour ago, Dewey said:

Thankful I'm not an active drunk during this crisis.  That's all I got. 

Glad to see some humor here, hope everyone is staying calm, wearing the world like a loose garment. 🙂

I am in a stage of recovery where the normies seem like fucking space aliens to me most of the time. People are up in arms about this thing in a way that I personally would not find healthy. This isn't about prepping a bunker, or cavalierly licking doorknobs to prove it's all a big hoax, it's about the usefulness of emotional responses, and that includes The Rationals out there sneering at everyone.

[BearSchlong 8077]

Learning a lot about overcoming financial fears, that's for sure.

Closing the liquor stores?  That is terrifying - even for normal people.  First thing my wife did was go to specs to get a few bottles of Tito's.  Which will last her 6 months.

I can truly empathize with the drunk that shows up at a shuttered liquor store in an existential crisis.  I know that feeling.

Edited March 17, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Celery Man 20881]

Yeah I don’t know what this would be like for me a few short years back.  I don’t know that I’d be able to horde enough booze.  Can’t imagine if they shut down liquor stores.

Folks lurking - we’re thinking about you.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

9 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I can truly empathize with the drunk that shows up at a shuttered liquor store in an existential crisis.  I know that feeling.

That got me one random holiday. Can't remember which one, but the dawning panic as I realized none of them were going to be open, no matter how many I drove to....  I'm glad I don't have to feel that today.

[hornbri 1369]

I have been thinking about the suffering alcoholic during this time. It’s going to be a rough few weeks but maybe some social distancing will help someone of thyme seek a solution. 

[futureman 22414]

5 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Closing the liquor stores?  That is terrifying - even for normal people.

definitely not ideal if you're used to liquor but there's enough cheap wine available at grocery stores to keep those people from going insane.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

More wishes of support to addicts out there. This era is stressful for everyone but especially dangerous to those on the margins. Please keep reaching out on this thread for support and give the same when you can. Don't let the isolation with only your thoughts as company do you in. PM me or anyone if things get dark.

[NAVY 6738]

Quit at the beginning of the year. One less thing to worry about. 
 

Also, thank you to everyone that has posted their stories up in here. Very inspirational amigos. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, futureman said:

definitely not ideal if you're used to liquor but there's enough cheap wine available at grocery stores to keep those people from going insane.

Yeah, I looked into that. I thought you could only get booze of any kind at the state stores in PA, and how that was liable to kill a few drunks via enforced cold turkey withdrawals. Even at my worst, I was switching off between oceans of wine and seas of vodka, so they will be fine up there so long as they can get wine. And by "fine" I mean "won't die of a seizure."

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

On 3/16/2020 at 7:38 PM, Celery Man said:

I gotta come clean about something

Posted this in the prepper thread, but I wasn't prepping. I just found out they were the same price on Prime as the store and I have a set of stairs going up to my apartment. So might as well let someone else walk them up. Guess that doesn't explain why I ordered so much,. That's just from being bad at moderation. 

 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Used Soda Stream from Goodwill and pounded dry ice.

[Reagan1k 3016]

All January and February my wife and I had been marveling at how busy our spring was going to be starting this week....weddings, trips, conferences, parties - we were booked solid through June....we had things to do, people to see, and places to go.

Hahahahahahah.

In my few minutes of meditation this AM as I walked the dog, I was reminded of what some old timers told me when i first came in. 

Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans.

All I can do is take things one day at a time, be kind, seek out ways to be of service, and remember that I'm just a passenger on this journey.

When I feel anxiety about the future, my business, the markets, the virus.....all I can do and all that I need to do is pause and ask my higher power to remove those feelings.

That anxiety, just like any other character defect, is something I have to ask my higher power to work on.  Alone, I can't bear down and correct it.  I ask my higher power to remove those things that are objectionable or cause me dis-ease.

That's my goal for today - every time one of those thoughts pops up and my hamster wheels starts to turn I'm going to ask my higher power to take it from me...it's his to deal with and not mine.   All I can control are my actions and reactions in the course of living life on life's terms.  

 

 

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

What a great post, @Reagan1k   

since I don't have meetings at which to share my inanities, you're all going to have to read them. Or put me on Ignore. 

It occurred to me today while fumbling through a guitar passage that whether or not I'm good at anything in sobriety, I am better at everything. That's really all you can ask for.

[BearSchlong 8077]

Reagan, thank you. That really sums it up.

 

So what if I end up bankrupt, I almost died of alcoholism.

 

 

 

[hullabelew 3698]

A small group I attend at my former IOP set up meetings on Zoom.  Just a bunch of really good folks.  About 10 of use.  Then we are texting throughout the days between the Wed and Sun mtgs.  

My dad had a stroke and is in a rehab and can't have visitors.  He is in Texas...I'm in Georgia.  About to be released to a hospital to clean out some arteries.   Essentially in rehab to get well enough for the surgery.  Capt. Velcro, one of my dogs, in on his last few days.  Having to give him dialysis at home since the vet is closed.  100 CCs of ringers every morning.   That is a lot of fun

I can't imagine how my life would be if I were stuck at home with my wife, trying to find a way to get out of the house to find some booze and stay away from her.  She is still driving me fucking nuts, but I am better equipped to deal with it now.  

[BearSchlong 8077]

Glad to see you're living life on life's terms, Hulla.  Thoughts and prayers for your Dad, I know that must hurt bad, not being close.

Just got my dog's ashes back last week and i gotta admit I've been talking to her urn.

My home group just had our first meeting on GoToMeeting. . .awkward at first but I think it's gonna be helpful.  Any of you want to participate let me know and I'll get the link.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

hell for an ungrateful person would be getting almost everything you ever want

[Charles DeMar 221]

Struggling mightily with resentment right now, fellas. I keep telling myself "God's to deal with, not mine," and appreciate Reagan for saying as much.  Working from home ain't for the weak, I've found out over the course of 1.5 days.  Resentment deals with my wife basically reading COVID-19 stories ALL DAY LONG on her phone while I'm trying to keep people fed and safe while still trying to produce for work.  

 

I realize she's doing the next right thing for her, which is important to her to know all about this (she's the type who likes to have "all" the information / options so she can choose (slowly) what she sees as the best decision)

 

Anyways, don't have a meeting to attend right this second, so I've been reaching out to brothers in arms, and that includes you guys, today.

 

Appreciate you guys and all you contribute.  I'm going to try and meditate for a bit and hopefully calm down and realize that's her journey, not mine, and I've chosen this life of service to her and the kids from the day I asked her to be my bride.  My resentment isn't helping anything, especially me and my relationship with her, my bride.

 

Thanks guys,

 

CDM

[Dewey 3280]

What helps me with resentments,  first I tell myself not to let those wild horses run off with my thoughts, because they can and have many times and I know full well the hell that is. Second I remind myself that I am repairing a fractured life, at least mine. It brings to me forgiveness for going crazy (it's okay, you're rebuilding, happens) and brings about relief to chill, be greatful for the distance I have come since that dreaded fall not too long ago. 

If anyone is stuck at home, revisiting self pitty, get out of that chair, couch or bed and do some exercise,  anything. Push ups, running in place, go for a walk, be as free as you can. Dont start new arguments with yourself and put the old arguments on pause.

Much love

[Kennythetiger 9334]

Charles, sometimes I use an app on my phone called “Calm”.  There are parts of it that I consider extremely useful and some I have never used and never will. Look into it sometime if you have an extra 15 minutes to kill. I think it’s free for a month, or something like that. I bought a year’s subscription for $70. Your fellow Minister of Culture is on there for something, too. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Kennythetiger

[Sparky 149]

I haven’t seen this posted, but if so here it is again.  There’s links to online meetings as well as online forums for us during this time. 
http://aa-intergroup.org

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Sparky

[futureman 22414]

I don’t post here much so sorry for the drive-by.  I haven’t gone to any meetings in the last few weeks because of all this and I just want to verify that on-site meetings are off?  or are people still going?  I’m in austin.   I drove by northland last saturday morning and it was fucking packed.  I know a lot has happened in the last six days. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

35 minutes ago, futureman said:

I don’t post here much so sorry for the drive-by.  I haven’t gone to any meetings in the last few weeks because of all this and I just want to verify that on-site meetings are off?  or are people still going?  I’m in austin.   I drove by northland last saturday morning and it was fucking packed.  I know a lot has happened in the last six days. 

It varies by locale-- in Lakeway, the Serenity meetings @ The Lakeway Church are off because that facility is closed, but I think (I haven't been in > a week) that the Keystone meetings @ Emmaus are still on for the time being, just VERY sparsely attended and they've largely been replaced by Zoom meetings that are circulated word-of-mouth. So we still have some in person and some that are cancelled.