I'm An Alcoholic

[Clintonaldo 2618]

1 hour ago, Walser said:

Newly-minted alcoholic checking in. Always been a prolific drinker, but wrenched my back after Thanksgiving that turned it up to 11. Pain just laughed at the meds from the back specialist. So holiday heavy drinking followed by the decision to just stop on Christmas landed me in the hospital for three days with heavy withdrawl symptoms. Fortunately I responded well to treatment.

I am very thankful for the excellent staff and the almost smothering of family support with whom I was totally transparent with about my condition. But I am most thankful that the doc signed me out in time to watch the New Years Eve bowl games. The TV in my room was laughably small. (bad joke)

My social worker, father (MD) who lost a stepson to this, and others are helping me devise a plan to move forward. Not gonna waste any time getting my checklist worked. In-patient care is on the table.

I have no desire for a drink right now, but sounds like will change at some point.

I will be starting at the beginning of this thread to read your experiences. I also welcome any suggestions. 2023...starting now!

Proud of you buddy

[pch 1264]

3 hours ago, Walser said:

Newly-minted alcoholic checking in. Always been a prolific drinker, but wrenched my back after Thanksgiving that turned it up to 11. Pain just laughed at the meds from the back specialist. So holiday heavy drinking followed by the decision to just stop on Christmas landed me in the hospital for three days with heavy withdrawl symptoms. Fortunately I responded well to treatment.

I am very thankful for the excellent staff and the almost smothering of family support with whom I was totally transparent with about my condition. But I am most thankful that the doc signed me out in time to watch the New Years Eve bowl games. The TV in my room was laughably small. (bad joke)

My social worker, father (MD) who lost a stepson to this, and others are helping me devise a plan to move forward. Not gonna waste any time getting my checklist worked. In-patient care is on the table.

I have no desire for a drink right now, but sounds like will change at some point.

I will be starting at the beginning of this thread to read your experiences. I also welcome any suggestions. 2023...starting now!

Welcome.  There is a solution to your drinking problem and a number of us that will help you going forward.  Glad you are here and look forward to seeing what happens in your life in 2023.

[Macanudo 13318]

323 days for me as of today.   First holiday season in a very long time without spending most of it drinking.   We have a big Christmas Eve shindig every year with hors d'oerves and cocktails.   Like Super Bowl Sunday, it was always one of my "moderate" drinking days.  I'd tell myself that my drinking wasn't too bad because I'd only had a few drinks that night.  

Went through Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and now NYE sober/drink less for the first time ever as an adult.  Feels like an accomplishment but I also hear Han Solo loud and clear in my head...

"Don't get cocky, kid."

[YGIFS 19458]

Up early today.  As usual.  Hope we all make it through 2023 with health and hearts.  Finish to the year was a lot tougher than I anticipated.  Really appreciate y'all letting me vent on here.  Only reason I came back to the board.  That, and annoying a handful of regulars.  Talked with my sponsor on Saturday.  And he reiterated what some of y'all have told me.  It's not about this for my wife, or even my children.  I gotta work at this for me.  Need to stop looking for affirmation.  It's about the diligence.  I just want to be better for her and the girls, but I suppose it's about being better for myself.  God bless.  

[TwiceHorn 32076]

One of the things that happens as you stay sober and work the program is that you find your own values again and that can be one of the biggest motivators/affirmations of them all.  It probably mostly boils down to honesty, but you'll probably find that you just feel better about yourself and the way you "behave" in pretty much all aspects of your life.  You look back on things you used to do as a drunk, many not directly related to drinking, being drunk, and maintaining that, and think "geez what was I thinking" and "who was that guy"?

And, for me at least, that feeling of well-being/serenity becomes positive enough that going back to drinking just starts to seem unfathomable and you kind of stop thinking in terms of "I'd like a drink, but the cost is too high" to just "fuck all that."

This is probably just a restatement of some of the Promises, but I personally have never quite written this down this way.

Edited January 2, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[RockyMountainHighHorn 927]

15 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

Proud of you buddy

Right there with Clint. That’s huge! Sorry that it sucks, it’s part of the deal but the relief is coming. Hold on. Proud of you!

[BearSchlong 8240]

Happy 2023, y'all. And welcome to newcomers.

 

[YGIFS 19458]

20 hours ago, Walser said:

Newly-minted alcoholic checking in. Always been a prolific drinker, but wrenched my back after Thanksgiving that turned it up to 11. Pain just laughed at the meds from the back specialist. So holiday heavy drinking followed by the decision to just stop on Christmas landed me in the hospital for three days with heavy withdrawl symptoms. Fortunately I responded well to treatment.

I am very thankful for the excellent staff and the almost smothering of family support with whom I was totally transparent with about my condition. But I am most thankful that the doc signed me out in time to watch the New Years Eve bowl games. The TV in my room was laughably small. (bad joke)

My social worker, father (MD) who lost a stepson to this, and others are helping me devise a plan to move forward. Not gonna waste any time getting my checklist worked. In-patient care is on the table.

I have no desire for a drink right now, but sounds like will change at some point.

I will be starting at the beginning of this thread to read your experiences. I also welcome any suggestions. 2023...starting now!

Not to get up all in your business.  But how bad were your withdrawal symptoms?  What were they?  And what kinda treatment?

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by YGIFS

[TwiceHorn 32076]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:04 PM, YGIFS said:

Not to get up all in your business.  But how bad were your withdrawal symptoms?  What were they?  And what kinda treatment?

 

Without putting words in his mouth, most of us with experience in the program can probably tell you.  Racing heart, tremors, kind of a pre-seizure if not a seizure outright, to include lightheadedness and fainting.  Increased heart rate and spiking blood pressure are the prime medical signs. This is what is commonly known as delirium tremens.

The worst of it is a seizure possibly leading to a stroke.  The typical treatment is "detox," which means medical monitoring and librium, which while a tranqulizer and low-grade alcohol in pill form is also an anti-convulsant (seizure drug).

Hospitalization is mostly precautionary, because while the DTs can kill you, it's easily dealt with by medical personnel.

Edited January 4, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[YGIFS 19458]

Yeah, the similar experience I had during the several times I'd try to quit in first half of 2022...would be 3 or 4 days in a row of drinks at night.  Then about 24 hours of "okayness" where I think the alcohol was still in my body but was functioning like a guy with a mild hangover.  and then wake up Sunday morning and the second I stepped out of the bed...and I mean the moment...the gagging and dry heaves would set on and stay with me for about 48 hours.  I'd also get tingly nerves in my right arm which freaked me out, made my hand shake something fierce.  And of course, the sleep and appetite were almost non-existent (plus chills in the Texas time didn't seem right, at all). \\

That was my wakeup call to quit totally, because while my drinking was weekly, it wasn't blackout bad or all-day drinking kinda shit.  But it was getting to be a serious problem.  But the real problem I noticed was probably just alcoholic bullshit, "My drinking needs to be severely curbed", but it was when I stopped.  For years, I could stop for a week or a month and other than the social muscle memory, didn't really miss it that bad.  But when my relapse withdrawals from it got this bad (Like blood pressure of 175/115 kinda bad) and I'd dry heave for up to 72 hours in some cases...that was the wakeup call.  You're drinking is bad and it's killing you.  Your withdrawal from it is worse and will kill you sooner.  I know that's twisted logic, the reason I should stop is because the dizziness, hearing noises, potential stroke victim, and sore extremeties, that was every bit the eye opener as my wife asking me to stop for family reasons.  Thankfully other than coming and going once a week or so, the other real weird thing was the brain fog and the milld tinnitus.  Most recent relapse was worst one yet and I need to remember that just as much as I remember the steps.  

[hullabelew 3730]

One of the bonuses of not being drunk all of time:  Saving Money.  I had a great reminder on Saturday night.

Went to a large wedding for the son of a friend.  Kid married a really rich girl.  Reception dinner:  Fantastic live band.  Open bar from 4:30 until the end.  Top shelf liquor.  Best meal I've ever had at a wedding dinner.  For the reception:  one bar upstairs/one downstairs.  four bars in the dining area.  In my drunk days, I would have tipped every bartender in that place at least $20 to start the night off, you know...to get in their good graces.  Don't want them forgetting me when the line is long.  Also, if the wife was trying to keep me on a pitch count, I could dip out and run to the bar upstairs to grab a quick one.  So right off the bat, I'm down $160-200 at this free bar.  

The guitarist/bassist/sax guy set up a little jazz trio during the happy our.  I did give them a tip because they were fucking great.  But the plus was I could talk to them and not be a drunken mess.  By 8pm though, I was ready to GTFO of that place though.  It's really the first place I've been where I started feeling 'itchy' about being around that large of a drinking environment.  There was some other factors (divorce likely beginning soon for one.  A topic for later, but I'm convinced my wife doesn't like me sober, and I'm fucking FINE with that.)  

Soon after I got out of treatment, I went to a concert in a small listening room with another couple who wasn't drinking.  They were both bartenders. She told the server, "Just to let you know, we aren't drinking booze, but we are going to tip on a booze-filled tab".  My ginger beer never ran dry.  

I CONSERVATIVELY estimated I was spending $30 a day on booze.  VERY CONSERVATIVELY.  After 3 1/2 years, the number is over $40,000.   

 

[YGIFS 19458]

Thanks for sharing that man.  The money thing has been nice, though I wasn't spend that much.  For me at least, it was also the justification to my wife.  Even it was $10 in a day, not having to explain to her or suspect that she had checked online or saw my wallet was empty.  That kinda shit is becoming a huge weight lifted off of me.  It was one thing to wake up with a hangover, or regret something I said, and then to also have to confront "my banker."  That's tough stuff.  

The other thing I'll add to your wedding story and a few stories above, many of us have social anxiety.  Yet another reason why we had to "pre-game" a few drinks before an event that was gonna have alcohol at it.  But as many have stated, including you, I'm a little anxious walking into something and trying to self-talk my way through how I'm gonna handle not drinking and still socializing, etc.  The before is a little nerve-racking still.  But I've found once I'm at something, it's really not as hard as I made it out to be and nobody there gives a shit one way or the other.  But the end of events is also tough, as you say 8pm after a long wedding day.  I find the last 30-60 minutes of something to be excruciating.  That was a time I used to slink away and go have a few by myself.  But I can't do that anymore, so it's tough.  But 75% of events are going much better than I had planned.  Not great, but not awful.  But yeah, I'm still the guy trying to wrap up conversations and get the fuck outta dodge but for different reasons. 

[Walser 1125]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:04 PM, YGIFS said:

Not to get up all in your business.  But how bad were your withdrawal symptoms?  What were they?  And what kinda treatment?

 

No, happy to share. Day 2 of no alcohol I started getting cold shivers first thing in the morning while somehow managing to lightly sweat. I would eventually just get up and start my day. Later that day I had what was seemingly spontaneous vomiting; like I wasn't particularly feeling nauseated and there was a little warning. Eventually I was able to keep fluids and solids down. 

Day three was worse and there was no keeping anything down. Food, fuhgeddaboutit. But was ultimately did it for me was the inability to hold down simple water. On an empty stomach I could drink a small bottle of water and it would all come back up within 15 minutes. So obviously hydration was a big worry and I was not keen to experiment with butt-chugging.

At the ER the shakes were so bad I could not really fill out the forms. After I got all my vitals taken (way too high BP, heart rate) and got a drip for hydration and a cocktail of drugs to basically calm me down. It worked. I would have been able to orally drink water except they wanted me to go through some tests first. I was getting damn thirsty at the end. My treatment was three days in the hospital with constant checking of vitals, reducing number of pills and saline, and discharge.

If you are interested I can look through my paperwork for the exact chemical treatment.

Oh, and I feel lucky. I went to AA this last Wednesday with my cousin and spent the whole weekend mountain-biking with family. But man do I miss drinking; and by that I mean just having something to drink! My family filled my fridge with a wide variety sparkling waters, fruit juices and soft drinks. I prefer the flavored sparkling waters. So it feels like habit for me; I don't seem to have a physical urge,,,yet.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Walser

[YGIFS 19458]

No, that's cool-no need for you to relive it.  Thanks for sharing. 

Had a somewhat similar experience, no shivers or sweating but some shaking.  But yeah, just the gagging/heaving that could come on outta nowhere.  Even water couldn't stay down on day 2 into 3.  Took 4 days for my BP to come down to normal, from nearly 180 back down into the 120's.  That scares the shit outta you.  And of course, what you need most---sleep.  Absolute garbage rest for a week.  When somebody who does't drink says, "Oh, and I never slept so well as I do when I'm not drinking."  I want to smack that person.  Like, "Yeah, I didn't drink for a week and I slept maybe 19 hours that whole fucking week asshole!"  But yes, I get the difference.   The other odd thing I remember was constipation.  Obviously I couldn't eat for almost the first 3 days but even 4 days after that, I still hadn't gone.  Doc and wife basically said, "Your body was so busy with other stuff, your BM's were the least of its concerns."  Drank 2 treatments of magnesium citrate towards the end of that week and holy shit.  I had visions.   

[hullabelew 3730]

49 minutes ago, Walser said:

No, happy to share. Day 2 of no alcohol I started getting cold shivers first thing in the morning while somehow managing to lightly sweat. I would eventually just get up and start my day. Later that day I had what was seemingly spontaneous vomiting; like I wasn't particularly feeling nauseated and there was a little warning. Eventually I was able to keep fluids and solids down. 

Day three was worse and there was no keeping anything down. Food, fuhgeddaboutit. But was ultimately did it for me was the inability to hold down simple water. On an empty stomach I could drink a small bottle of water and it would all come back up within 15 minutes. So obviously hydration was a big worry and I was not keen to experiment with butt-chugging.

At the ER the shakes were so bad I could not really fill out the forms. After I got all my vitals taken (way too high BP, heart rate) and got a drip for hydration and a cocktail of drugs to basically calm me down. It worked. I would have been able to orally drink water except they wanted me to go through some tests first. I was getting damn thirsty at the end. My treatment was three days in the hospital with constant checking of vitals, reducing number of pills and saline, and discharge.

If you are interested I can look through my paperwork for the exact chemical treatment.

Oh, and I feel lucky. I went to AA this last Wednesday with my cousin and spent the whole weekend mountain-biking with family. But man do I miss drinking; and by that I mean just having something to drink! My family filled my fridge with a wide variety sparkling waters, fruit juices and soft drinks. I prefer the flavored sparkling waters. So it feels like habit for me; I don't seem to have a physical urge,,,yet.

Ginger Beer and spicy ginger ale also worked well for me, early on, and still do.  I mix them in my normal pint glass, just like my old drinks, expect instead of a glass full of whiskey and a splash of coke, it is a glass full of ginger beer and a splash of grenadine.  Somehow, the act of mixing the drink was relaxing.  

[Celery Man 21095]

Gosling Ginger Beer and Vernor's Ginger Ale are/were my jam. Still trying to find cans of diet Vernors here in North Carolina.

One thing I've found that's interesting in... parties, weddings, very drinking centric social occasions with lots of people - there's a buzzy feeling that I get from socializing with people in that way. Not like a drinking buzz or whatever, just a... I'm on/engaged/the social center of my brain running hot for a bit causes things to get a little loose. That is a feeling that I always associated with having an alcohol buzz because I was always drinking in those scenarios, but it's not a drinking thing.

Sorry to hear if things are going that way Hulla - if that is what it is, then perhaps it is best and will let you live your best life going forward.

 

The following are thoughts that came to mind from what hulla said, but of course are only about my relationship and struggles with that as part of our disease - 

My wife and I are both alcoholics, and both are very much assholes in that alcoholic way when we don't do the things we need to do to keep things peaceful. That of course can manifest in our relationship and cause problems. One of my goals this year is to do a better job of managing that on my end, and doing a better job of not letting stupid shit take me down that well worn road that ends in us having some shitty fight. And man, it is often stupid shit that is about our or my neuroses and not anything real - something innocuous happens and I feel like she's mad at me, I get mad that she's mad at me because I didn't do anything wrong and in fact if anything it's her fault what does she expect from me, i engage in some shitty protest behavior and now she actually is mad at me, both of our lizard brains are now at the controls and it is game over - we either have a big shitty fight or we disengage for a few hours and resentment accumulates on the surface of our relationship. That all foments out of... she put the baby socks on the table where I eat and I interpreted that as passive aggressive when really she was sweeping the floor. In my rational brain I know that half the time it's nothing and even when it was a little passive aggressive I love her enough to let it go for small stuff and talk about it sanely when it gets to be medium sized. But I can't do anything about it if I don't shortcut my shitty little emotional journey that starts with me getting pissed off at a perceived slight and the alcoholic in me taking over.

One thing I think I've discovered this year in making it a goal (resolution even - do y'all have renewed interest in those in your sobriety?) to improve is that it's a promise I've made with myself. If I want to be a better husband for her, she leaves the socks on the table well fuck her anyways she should be a better wife to me. If I made a promise to myself that I was going to knock it the fuck off and remember that it's usually nothing, she's a good wife, and i should cut her some slack anyways - that's a deal I made with myself and being pissed off at her in a moment doesn't short circuit that deal. It's internal to me and I'm not pissed off at me. I'll see how things go as we get deeper into the year but I really feel like I've had good results with just that shift in thinking, rewiring my own selfishness with purpose to be less shitty to my partner.

[hullabelew 3730]

One thing I've started doing is to contact people who helped me when I was younger, were strong, positive influences in my life or who I admire for their actions.

I started writing former teachers to thank them.  Old school letters, no email or FB/Insta posts.  I did the same for people who supported me in 4H and FFA by purchasing my animals at the stock show.  I spent most of 2022 in the Young Co. where I grew up.  I was able to meet with many people, mostly parents of my friends, to thank them for what they meant for me.  It has helped a lot with my spirituality.  Something very cleansing and humbling about the process.

Then last weekend, I ran in to a former neighbor.  She always seemed stand-offish.  Some thought she was stuck-up.  They had 3 kids around the same age as mine.  The husband/father was a real asshole to the kids and she always stayed away from social gatherings at the pool.  All 3 kids were great athletes but the dad just emotional beat them down.  They couldn't even play at the pool with him constantly yelling and correcting them.  He ended up having an away from the cheerleading coach of the youth football league and the wife booted him.  This was probably 5 years ago.   I ran in to the dad 2 years ago and asked about his kids.  He said, "I have no idea.  They won't talk to me."  

Well, I got to see how the kids turned out.  One was a first round draft pick in MLB out of high school.  The other is a nurse and is marrying an AF pilot and the youngest played college lacrosse and is graduating in May and joining the AF.  Three well adjusted kids.  I told her how happy I was and how much I respected what she was able to do.  She could not have been more surprised and thanked me over and over for taking the time to talk with her.    And what some people viewed as stuck-up?  It was probably more fear of him than anything.  She was keeping the house running while he was running rough-shod over the family.  Just reiterated to me that we never know what someone else is going through, so when in doubt, be nice.  

I'm not saying this to brag....I just found a tool that helps me and also doesn't hurt others.  

I have a watercolor painting by Jon Dee Graham.  The caption reads, "Here's a thought....treat everyone you meet like it's the last time you'll ever see them.  Let's try that."

[ballrific 220]

for you folks with the withdrawal symptoms to the point of having shakes/sweats/going to ER, was that going cold turkey from just having a few drinks every evening, every day or were you a functioning day drinker every day as well?  Just curious, understand if no one wants to give specifics as everyone's tolerance/chemistry is different.

I have a few buddies who like the rest of us booze in the evening almost everyday after work but also eat healthy and exercise daily.  Always wondered if it would be tougher or easier to go cold turkey for a month in that situation.

[Celery Man 21095]

I would get the sweats pretty bad if I was trying to sleep sober even before I really went over the edge. I imagine that varies quite a bit though.

[hullabelew 3730]

15 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I would get the sweats pretty bad if I was trying to sleep sober even before I really went over the edge. I imagine that varies quite a bit though.

Same for me.   I sweating like a whore in church every night.  And like @Celery Man, that was before the wheels really came off.  

[TwiceHorn 32076]

23 hours ago, hullabelew said:

One thing I've started doing is to contact people who helped me when I was younger, were strong, positive influences in my life or who I admire for their actions.

I started writing former teachers to thank them.  Old school letters, no email or FB/Insta posts.  I did the same for people who supported me in 4H and FFA by purchasing my animals at the stock show.  I spent most of 2022 in the Young Co. where I grew up.  I was able to meet with many people, mostly parents of my friends, to thank them for what they meant for me.  It has helped a lot with my spirituality.  Something very cleansing and humbling about the process.

Then last weekend, I ran in to a former neighbor.  She always seemed stand-offish.  Some thought she was stuck-up.  They had 3 kids around the same age as mine.  The husband/father was a real asshole to the kids and she always stayed away from social gatherings at the pool.  All 3 kids were great athletes but the dad just emotional beat them down.  They couldn't even play at the pool with him constantly yelling and correcting them.  He ended up having an away from the cheerleading coach of the youth football league and the wife booted him.  This was probably 5 years ago.   I ran in to the dad 2 years ago and asked about his kids.  He said, "I have no idea.  They won't talk to me."  

Well, I got to see how the kids turned out.  One was a first round draft pick in MLB out of high school.  The other is a nurse and is marrying an AF pilot and the youngest played college lacrosse and is graduating in May and joining the AF.  Three well adjusted kids.  I told her how happy I was and how much I respected what she was able to do.  She could not have been more surprised and thanked me over and over for taking the time to talk with her.    And what some people viewed as stuck-up?  It was probably more fear of him than anything.  She was keeping the house running while he was running rough-shod over the family.  Just reiterated to me that we never know what someone else is going through, so when in doubt, be nice.  

I'm not saying this to brag....I just found a tool that helps me and also doesn't hurt others.  

I have a watercolor painting by Jon Dee Graham.  The caption reads, "Here's a thought....treat everyone you meet like it's the last time you'll ever see them.  Let's try that."

That's a great story and it brings to mind that there are sort of "positive amends" to be made.  In our newfound gratitude, we find that not only do we need to sincerely apologize and try to make right with those we have wronged, but we need to "give credit where credit is due."

I have done a few things like you have, and also more generally come to appreciate a lot of the people around me, past and present.

[TwiceHorn 32076]

21 hours ago, ballrific said:

for you folks with the withdrawal symptoms to the point of having shakes/sweats/going to ER, was that going cold turkey from just having a few drinks every evening, every day or were you a functioning day drinker every day as well?  Just curious, understand if no one wants to give specifics as everyone's tolerance/chemistry is different.

I have a few buddies who like the rest of us booze in the evening almost everyday after work but also eat healthy and exercise daily.  Always wondered if it would be tougher or easier to go cold turkey for a month in that situation.

Kind of hard to tell.  There's no bright line.  But daily drinkers, especially of significant quantities, are at higher risk of "severe" withdrawal symptoms than weekend bingers.

[TexArcher 39064]

21 hours ago, ballrific said:

for you folks with the withdrawal symptoms to the point of having shakes/sweats/going to ER, was that going cold turkey from just having a few drinks every evening, every day or were you a functioning day drinker every day as well?  Just curious, understand if no one wants to give specifics as everyone's tolerance/chemistry is different.

I have a few buddies who like the rest of us booze in the evening almost everyday after work but also eat healthy and exercise daily.  Always wondered if it would be tougher or easier to go cold turkey for a month in that situation.

It varies a lot from person to person and with the same person at different stages.  Here's one person's story...

I was a high-functioning alcoholic from 18 until about 32 or 33.  Drank to excess every single night (my version of a night off was to stay home and just have 9 or 10 beers).  Physical withdrawals started at 31 or 32 and got progressively worse, and I was no longer such a high-functioning alcoholic; I was just a drunk in bad shape.  By 33 or so, I'd need a few pulls of vodka in the morning to stop the shaky hands so I could go to work, and the shakes would return by early afternoon until I got home and had a few more pulls of vodka (straight from the freezer; I didn't even pour it anymore).  When I tried to quit (many times), I'd have a scary night of extreme sweats, racing heart, and shaking beyond just the hands.  So, of course, I'd go get a bottle the next day.  I wanted to quit, but I was rightly scared of having a seizure on day 2 or 3.  So I tried tapering, and that went about as well as you'd expect.

Finally, at 36, after drinking my way out of a really good job, I got into an outpatient detox and took a high dose of librium for several days to get through the dangerous time.  I was clean for 83 days, then I had a relapse.  The physical withdrawals came back, full force, within a couple of weeks this time.  I went through detox a second time and this time it stuck (with the help of AA daily for about 18 months after that).  I've been sober more than 9 years now and haven't had a real craving in probably 7.

It's important to understand that every detox is harder on the body than the one before it.  So, if you need to do it, give yourself every chance of getting it right the first time.  Go to AA, even if you don't believe in god and don't believe it'll work.  Go anyway.  And for god's sake, talk to a doctor.

Stay sober, y'all.  Every single part of life is better.

Edited January 11, 2023 by TexArcher

[TwiceHorn 32076]

7 hours ago, TexArcher said:

It varies a lot from person to person and with the same person at different stages.  Here's one person's story...

I was a high-functioning alcoholic from 18 until about 32 or 33.  Drank to excess every single night (my version of a night off was to stay home and just have 9 or 10 beers).  Physical withdrawals started at 31 or 32 and got progressively worse, and I was no longer such a high-functioning alcoholic; I was just a drunk in bad shape.  By 33 or so, I'd need a few pulls of vodka in the morning to stop the shaky hands so I could go to work, and the shakes would return by early afternoon until I got home and had a few more pulls of vodka (straight from the freezer; I didn't even pour it anymore).  When I tried to quit (many times), I'd have a scary night of extreme sweats, racing heart, and shaking beyond just the hands.  So, of course, I'd go get a bottle the next day.  I wanted to quit, but I was rightly scared of having a seizure on day 2 or 3.  So I tried tapering, and that went about as well as you'd expect.

Finally, at 36, after drinking my way out of a really good job, I got into an outpatient detox and took a high dose of librium for several days to get through the dangerous time.  I was clean for 83 days, then I had a relapse.  The physical withdrawals came back, full force, within a couple of weeks this time.  I went through detox a second time and this time it stuck (with the help of AA daily for about 18 months after that).  I've been sober more than 9 years now and haven't had a real craving in probably 7.

It's important to understand that every detox is harder on the body than the one before it.  So, if you need to do it, give yourself every chance of getting it right the first time.  Go to AA, even if you don't believe in god and don't believe it'll work.  Go anyway.  And for god's sake, talk to a doctor.

Stay sober, y'all.  Every single part of life is better.

That's a good point re: current hangovers.  If you get the shakes after a night on the bottle, and every night is one on the bottle, that's a pretty decent sign that you may be in trouble if you go a prolonged period without.

 

[Reagan1k 3042]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:27 AM, hullabelew said:

I have a watercolor painting by Jon Dee Graham.  The caption reads, "Here's a thought....treat everyone you meet like it's the last time you'll ever see them.  Let's try that."

That’s pretty cool!  I need to remember that.   

[Kennythetiger 9622]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:16 AM, hullabelew said:

One of the bonuses of not being drunk all of time:  Saving Money.  I had a great reminder on Saturday night.

One of the driving forces for my sobriety is financial. To me the direct cost of alcohol was never really a factor- there was always someone willing to buy me a drink as long as I would sit down with them. 
I am self-employed, and when I was drinking heavily my work days consisted of jumping through just enough hoops to make it to Thursday night at the Country Club, which would kick off my drinking until it stopped sometime on Sunday. 
Now, I constantly remind myself how much one extra billable hour per day means for me over the course of a year, and that I cannot afford a hangover. 

[Macanudo 13318]

The financial side of drinking was always in the back of my head.  When I started to think about how much in dollars I was drinking, that started to weigh on me.   It's a small victory now, especially with the price of everything.    Skipping booze has been a good fiscal decision.   Obviously the mental, physical and relationship reasons are more important (to me) but not spending hundreds of dollars a month on booze is nice too.  

[Jerry Callo 8959]

On 1/12/2020 at 5:53 PM, Jerry Callo said:

Last drink on January 12, 2019. Been reading y'alls' words since TOS - every time there is a new post. In fact, I read the entire shaggy thread in one sitting a few years ago.

I'm not doing AA or any program, just determined not to drink today and again not tomorrow. When thoughts of missing drinking creep into my head, I make a point of fast forwarding to where that drink will eventually end.

Thanks for the assistance y'all have given without even knowing.

This was my first post in the thread - 3 years ago.  This remains the first thread I check when opening Surly.  I learn something from almost every post - the veterans and those just contemplating a life without alcohol.  The later being a great reminder of the turmoil.

Thanks again.

 

[Walser 1125]

On 1/10/2023 at 1:08 PM, ballrific said:

for you folks with the withdrawal symptoms to the point of having shakes/sweats/going to ER, was that going cold turkey from just having a few drinks every evening, every day or were you a functioning day drinker every day as well?  Just curious, understand if no one wants to give specifics as everyone's tolerance/chemistry is different.

I have a few buddies who like the rest of us booze in the evening almost everyday after work but also eat healthy and exercise daily.  Always wondered if it would be tougher or easier to go cold turkey for a month in that situation.

I had my sister take me to the ER just so I could get hydrated. And yes, it was detox from going cold turkey. I wasn't actually feeling all that bad. The staff recognized my symptoms right away and basically said no more alcohol for you. I said OK.

Over the holidays I had started to become a day drinker. Work was really slow and I had all this time off. Plus all the absolutely pointless bowl games. I'm a weirdo and enjoy watching all of them. Working out was non-existant but I ate fairly healthy. I *think* you would have to be an every day drinker of a decent amount to get to the stage I was at. I did not have seizures, but did have the shaky hands and cold sweats. To answer you directly I had become a functioning all-the-time drinker. 

I do like the idea of "dry January" or whatever. Observe the effects. While going dry cold turkey can technically kill you, it's not likely unless you basically have Duff beer going directly into your veins. Note: I am not a doctor! I also think it can't hurt to start accurately measuring drinking (was that a single or a double) and maybe keep a journal.

Went to my second AA meeting tonight with my cousin. I don't know if I just got lucky, but this group is great. Well run. I hang on every word. Got a line on a sponsor that I will talk to tomorrow.

[closetohumping 17810]

Fascinating stuff.  Proud of you all.  Not sure what I am at this moment

[closetohumping 17810]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:23 AM, hullabelew said:

Was in Nashville over the weekend and stopped in to a random meeting and ran in to buddy from my treatment center.  He told the following story.

A guy came on the same day as him.  Mid 50s.  In a wheelchair.  All alcohol induced.  In less week he was walking with a walker, then with a cane.  At 3 weeks, he rode the 75 ft  swing and balanced with another guy on a near impossible rope course.  You have to balance yourself with another guy across a span of several feet.  You each have all of your weight on the other person while the rope is moving all over the place.  And he did it.  Left treatment.   Did well for 60 days.  Relapsed.   Found him dead 2 days later.  Drank himself to death in 3 fucking days.  

All of that progress in 28 days.....said he had never felt that good....also said, "if I drink again, even one....I will die".   

This shit is serious boys and girls.  

Holy shit.  How can you drink yourself to death?  Alcohol poisoning?  So sad

[YGIFS 19458]

It's entirely possible to drink yourself to death.  Thankfully, I've never gotten that far.  What 'woke' me up was the withdrawals.  That's when I know I have to stop, when 48-72 hours without it is like a cheese-grater.  

I know the rest of this board despises me, which is weird because this is all just text on a screen at its core.  But it was this thread and a two friends IRL that convinced me to start doing meetings, seek counsel, and work through my shit last summer.  It didn't save my life, but in part---it saved my life.  I have a long ways to go.  But I'm on my way.  

[DallasHorn26 589]

I talked to a friend last week that went on a 12th step call to a man dying in the hospital with cirrhosis of the liver. The guy was dead in the yes and just yellow skinned from head to toe and was still trying to get family members to bring him a bottle of whiskey in. My buddy said that was the worst he had ever seen anyone and prays he never has to see that again. The guy didn't want to hear what they had to say, but they were able to get his family in contact with an Al-Anon group.

[Macanudo 13318]

3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Holy shit.  How can you drink yourself to death?  Alcohol poisoning?  So sad

Alcohol poisoning, cirrhosis of the liver, heart issues, certain cancers and ulcers (stomach and esophagal for example), long term degradation of other organs and systems, aspirating on vomit in your sleep.   Those are the ones that I come up with in 2 minutes.  

To paraphrase a wise man....  Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.

[YGIFS 19458]

All kinds of ways to go out.  I may likely still go out with one of them.  But I looked around and realized I was not alone. Most of my family and friends didn’t recognize or care or were in denial.  But between my wife, a few distant friends, a home chapter, and this thread….I at least have a foundation.   
 

this really is the least empathetic disease in human history.  But the good news is the people that do end helping young really wanna fucking help you.  
 

there are some folks in here whom I’ve never met in real life who have answered my emails and texts and I don’t know what I would have done without them 

miles to go before I sleep. 

[TwiceHorn 32076]

7 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Holy shit.  How can you drink yourself to death?  Alcohol poisoning?  So sad

One of the more charming ways to drink yourself to death is the esophageal hemorrhage.  Your esophagus gets variceles or varicose veins from all the booze sluicing down it, and the dry and other heaving.  One of those can burst and you can exsanguinate through your mouth.

Happened to a high school buddy of mine.

[closetohumping 17810]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One of the more charming ways to drink yourself to death is the esophageal hemorrhage.  Your esophagus gets variceles or varicose veins from all the booze sluicing down it, and the dry and other heaving.  One of those can burst and you can exsanguinate through your mouth.

Happened to a high school buddy of mine.

Happened to a buddy’s dad.  He didn’t die though. Veins were like a centimeter thick 

[TwiceHorn 32076]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

It's entirely possible to drink yourself to death.  Thankfully, I've never gotten that far.  What 'woke' me up was the withdrawals.  That's when I know I have to stop, when 48-72 hours without it is like a cheese-grater.  

I know the rest of this board despises me, which is weird because this is all just text on a screen at its core.  But it was this thread and a two friends IRL that convinced me to start doing meetings, seek counsel, and work through my shit last summer.  It didn't save my life, but in part---it saved my life.  I have a long ways to go.  But I'm on my way.  

First off, I dont think the rest of the board despises you.

But, a good corollary to all of this is that it's none of your business what other people think of you.

[Walser 1125]

8 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I know the rest of this board despises me...

I only mostly despise you.

BTW, I had a CT scan and ultrasound, and who knows what number of blood tests. Apparently I showed some markers for a fatty liver. The way the doctor explained it to me that a fatty liver can heal, but once it gets really bad to cirrhosis there is no cure. I don't want to find out if anyone likes me enough to donate part of their liver.

To those on the fence about how to classify yourself and your relationship with alcohol...just stop for a period of time. You will find out.

[Celery Man 21095]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

But, a good corollary to all of this is that it's none of your business what other people think of you.

would you hate me if i tattoo'd this on my forehead

[YGIFS 19458]

1 hour ago, Walser said:

I only mostly despise you.

BTW, I had a CT scan and ultrasound, and who knows what number of blood tests. Apparently I showed some markers for a fatty liver. The way the doctor explained it to me that a fatty liver can heal, but once it gets really bad to cirrhosis there is no cure. I don't want to find out if anyone likes me enough to donate part of their liver.

To those on the fence about how to classify yourself and your relationship with alcohol...just stop for a period of time. You will find out.

thank you for honesty.    

But yeah, it's a weird row to hoe.  The organs are resilient.  The long toll is real.  The habit is damaging.  The quitting is hard.  What really fucks with me is the mental aspect, the muscle memory if that makes sense.  Goofy as all fuck.  

[Kennythetiger 9622]

10 hours ago, YGIFS said:

It's entirely possible to drink yourself to death.  Thankfully, I've never gotten that far.  What 'woke' me up was the withdrawals.  That's when I know I have to stop, when 48-72 hours without it is like a cheese-grater.  

I know the rest of this board despises me, which is weird because this is all just text on a screen at its core.  But it was this thread and a two friends IRL that convinced me to start doing meetings, seek counsel, and work through my shit last summer.  It didn't save my life, but in part---it saved my life.  I have a long ways to go.  But I'm on my way.  

The board doesn’t despise you. That’s your ego talking. Was extremely hard for me to grasp too.  Still is, sometimes. In my head I have to sing Marty Stuart’s song “Time Don’t Wait on No One”. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9508]

Watching and trying to help a friend and colleague dealing with his alcoholic wife right now and have very legit concerns about his health through this ordeal. He's pushing 60 and a walking poster for heart attack in the making. He internalizes everything, is obese, doesn't exercise, poor diet, and avoids conflict at all costs (which has also had a negative impact on his career).

Several of us at the office have known that he's been in a loveless marriage for over a decade. They talked about divorcing once the kids were out of college quite openly, but in the end have been just too comfortable in their dependable misery to ever take the next step. She sabotaged her career 15 years ago and has worked intermittently over the years until finally deciding not to even try finding a job about 5 years ago. He always knew she was a couple glasses of wine at dinner, let loose on the weekend drinker.  But he discovered during the WFH days that she's pretty much an all day drinker despite her attempts to hide it. Or his attempts to deny that he was seeing it.

He pulled a couple of us aside last summer and told us more than he ever needed to before he admitted her to a 30 day in patient facility. He was concerned about how this might prevent him from working his standard 12-14 hour days (anything to avoid the trouble at home) and have a negative impact on the team. We told him to forget about us and the office, and to do whatever he needed to take care of himself and help her in her journey.

He told me this week that she went back to "secret" drinking within a week of her returning home. He said he knew she was drinking again but went along with her act because he was afraid confronting her would make things worse. It's tough. He's a great guy, a lovable Joe Shmoe that everyone WANTS to see win. But the fear is that he's accepted his lot in life is to not have much happiness and just deal with whatever life shits upon him (a residual of his Catholic upbringing?). On the positive side he's at least utilizing some of the EAP resources available at work, and he's close enough with a couple of us (including our boss) to know that he doesn't owe us any explanations for his absences or schizophrenic work schedule these days. Her disease is killing both of them. 

[KaiserSoze 1017]

1 hour ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

 Her disease is killing both of them. 

Good times

[closetohumping 17810]

1 hour ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Watching and trying to help a friend and colleague dealing with his alcoholic wife right now and have very legit concerns about his health through this ordeal. He's pushing 60 and a walking poster for heart attack in the making. He internalizes everything, is obese, doesn't exercise, poor diet, and avoids conflict at all costs (which has also had a negative impact on his career).

Several of us at the office have known that he's been in a loveless marriage for over a decade. They talked about divorcing once the kids were out of college quite openly, but in the end have been just too comfortable in their dependable misery to ever take the next step. She sabotaged her career 15 years ago and has worked intermittently over the years until finally deciding not to even try finding a job about 5 years ago. He always knew she was a couple glasses of wine at dinner, let loose on the weekend drinker.  But he discovered during the WFH days that she's pretty much an all day drinker despite her attempts to hide it. Or his attempts to deny that he was seeing it.

He pulled a couple of us aside last summer and told us more than he ever needed to before he admitted her to a 30 day in patient facility. He was concerned about how this might prevent him from working his standard 12-14 hour days (anything to avoid the trouble at home) and have a negative impact on the team. We told him to forget about us and the office, and to do whatever he needed to take care of himself and help her in her journey.

He told me this week that she went back to "secret" drinking within a week of her returning home. He said he knew she was drinking again but went along with her act because he was afraid confronting her would make things worse. It's tough. He's a great guy, a lovable Joe Shmoe that everyone WANTS to see win. But the fear is that he's accepted his lot in life is to not have much happiness and just deal with whatever life shits upon him (a residual of his Catholic upbringing?). On the positive side he's at least utilizing some of the EAP resources available at work, and he's close enough with a couple of us (including our boss) to know that he doesn't owe us any explanations for his absences or schizophrenic work schedule these days. Her disease is killing both of them. 

That was heartbreaking to read

[TwiceHorn 32076]

4 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

That’s your ego talking.

This is one of those paradoxes that I find amusing and interesting.  Your ego convinces that everyone is watching and is overly concerned with you and as a result probably dislikes you or hates your guts.  And, of course, the reality is that everyone doesn't give a shit and are neutral or better on you, personally, despite maybe giving you some shit from time to time.

And that resulting insecurity makes it appear that you have no ego, or a damaged one.

Edited January 20, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32076]

1 hour ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Her disease is killing both of them.

Yeah, that sucks.  It was touched up upthread, but addiction turns out to be quite the family disease and can have pretty dire effects on spouses and children.   So, it's not a "victimless" disorder.

But, as our understanding of psychology grows, I think we're learning that all kinds of dread diseases can have devastating effects on the family, beyond just grief at death or dying.

[closetohumping 17810]

14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is one of those paradoxes that I find amusing and interesting.  Your ego convinces that everyone is watching and is overly concerned with you and as a result probably dislikes you or hates your guts.  And, of course, the reality is that everyone doesn't give a shit and are neutral or better on you, personally, despite maybe giving you some shit from time to time.

And that resulting insecurity makes it appear that you have no ego, or a damaged one.

Yep. All in all nobody cares about you so drop the paranoia.  I mean that in a kind way and I always tell myself this when I have to present to a customer

[Jerry Callo 8959]

11 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Watching and trying to help a friend and colleague dealing with his alcoholic wife right now and have very legit concerns about his health through this ordeal. He's pushing 60 and a walking poster for heart attack in the making. He internalizes everything, is obese, doesn't exercise, poor diet, and avoids conflict at all costs (which has also had a negative impact on his career).

Several of us at the office have known that he's been in a loveless marriage for over a decade. They talked about divorcing once the kids were out of college quite openly, but in the end have been just too comfortable in their dependable misery to ever take the next step. She sabotaged her career 15 years ago and has worked intermittently over the years until finally deciding not to even try finding a job about 5 years ago. He always knew she was a couple glasses of wine at dinner, let loose on the weekend drinker.  But he discovered during the WFH days that she's pretty much an all day drinker despite her attempts to hide it. Or his attempts to deny that he was seeing it.

He pulled a couple of us aside last summer and told us more than he ever needed to before he admitted her to a 30 day in patient facility. He was concerned about how this might prevent him from working his standard 12-14 hour days (anything to avoid the trouble at home) and have a negative impact on the team. We told him to forget about us and the office, and to do whatever he needed to take care of himself and help her in her journey.

He told me this week that she went back to "secret" drinking within a week of her returning home. He said he knew she was drinking again but went along with her act because he was afraid confronting her would make things worse. It's tough. He's a great guy, a lovable Joe Shmoe that everyone WANTS to see win. But the fear is that he's accepted his lot in life is to not have much happiness and just deal with whatever life shits upon him (a residual of his Catholic upbringing?). On the positive side he's at least utilizing some of the EAP resources available at work, and he's close enough with a couple of us (including our boss) to know that he doesn't owe us any explanations for his absences or schizophrenic work schedule these days. Her disease is killing both of them. 

I suspect Al Anon might by helpful for your colleague.  Very sad to hear.

[BearSchlong 8240]

Holy shit.  How can you drink yourself to death?  Alcohol poisoning?  So sad

12 years ago last night I came close.

12 years ago today I woke up in the hospital expecting to be handcuffed to the bed.

The best I can tell, you can’t take a BAC sample from someone unconscious and unable to provide consent.

That was my last drunk, so far. Sober, safe, and sane and about to go to a Saturday morning meeting.