Thread of Statue Removals

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And maybe you should quit believing what you clearly want to believe. That same site presented pretty clear evidence Hamilton was a slaveowner. 

This is a real red letter day. The first time in Dennisons posting history where he didn't call a white guy racist.....  Mark it down folks.  Stay tuned for the melt down if he keeps getting called racist or ......{gaaaaaaasp} a dyed in the wool slave trader.....

[Ghost of LL 15493]

14 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Everybody speculates that Hamilton alone among people who grew up in slave colonies pitied and empathized with slaves without a single shred of evidence to support that supposition. This guy is no exception. The fact is Hamilton worked in the slave trade on St. Croix though historians like to say he clerked in an import / export business. What the fuck do you think Hamilton's business was importing? 

I just don't understand why historians from deep in the past right up until today bend over backwards to give Hamilton a break. They just have made up the idea that Hamilton was a "staunch abolitionist all his life" with no evidence whatsoever to support that he was ever an abolitionist at all (much less a staunch one), and in fact a few little smoking guns in his business papers indicating that he in fact actually owned slaves. 

I mean, would a staunch abolitionist marry into one of New York's largest slaveowning families?

See--and here is the difference between Hamilton and Jefferson.

There is no question that Hamilton at least dabbled in the slave trade while in the Caribbean.  The economy of the islands was based on a slave economy.  And whether he himself trafficked in human cargo, he definitely traded the goods that were cultivated and manufactured by slaves.

But at the same time, what would you expect of a young man who was born in the islands and who had never been exposed to anything other than the economy and social mores of that time and place?  It's inconceivable that he would've become opposed to slavery in St. Croix or anywhere else in the Caribbean.

When he moved to New York, he was exposed to new ideas.  And it's also clear that he met these new ideas with an open mind.  It's apparent from his writing and actions that he developed a deep and personal opposition to slavery.

Contrast that with Jefferson.  Jefferson traveled all over Europe.  He was exposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment.  He adopted all of the ideals of the French Revolution . . . except the abolition of slavery.  For all his travels and for all the ideas to which he was exposed, Jefferson retained his narrow outlook.  He was never open to new opinions or ideas.  For all he is celebrated, he was never anything more than a fancy, provincial plantation slaver.

[wildcat09 29264]

31 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

See--and here is the difference between Hamilton and Jefferson.

There is no question that Hamilton at least dabbled in the slave trade while in the Caribbean.  The economy of the islands was based on a slave economy.  And whether he himself trafficked in human cargo, he definitely traded the goods that were cultivated and manufactured by slaves.

But at the same time, what would you expect of a young man who was born in the islands and who had never been exposed to anything other than the economy and social mores of that time and place?  It's inconceivable that he would've become opposed to slavery in St. Croix or anywhere else in the Caribbean.

When he moved to New York, he was exposed to new ideas.  And it's also clear that he met these new ideas with an open mind.  It's apparent from his writing and actions that he developed a deep and personal opposition to slavery.

Contrast that with Jefferson.  Jefferson traveled all over Europe.  He was exposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment.  He adopted all of the ideals of the French Revolution . . . except the abolition of slavery.  For all his travels and for all the ideas to which he was exposed, Jefferson retained his narrow outlook.  He was never open to new opinions or ideas.  For all he is celebrated, he was never anything more than a fancy, provincial plantation slaver.

Jefferson was Calvin Candie, basically.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

36 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

See--and here is the difference between Hamilton and Jefferson.

There is no question that Hamilton at least dabbled in the slave trade while in the Caribbean.  The economy of the islands was based on a slave economy.  And whether he himself trafficked in human cargo, he definitely traded the goods that were cultivated and manufactured by slaves.

But at the same time, what would you expect of a young man who was born in the islands and who had never been exposed to anything other than the economy and social mores of that time and place?  It's inconceivable that he would've become opposed to slavery in St. Croix or anywhere else in the Caribbean.

When he moved to New York, he was exposed to new ideas.  And it's also clear that he met these new ideas with an open mind.  It's apparent from his writing and actions that he developed a deep and personal opposition to slavery.

Contrast that with Jefferson.  Jefferson traveled all over Europe.  He was exposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment.  He adopted all of the ideals of the French Revolution . . . except the abolition of slavery.  For all his travels and for all the ideas to which he was exposed, Jefferson retained his narrow outlook.  He was never open to new opinions or ideas.  For all he is celebrated, he was never anything more than a fancy, provincial plantation slaver.

We have Jefferson on the record writing at length about the evils of slavery and how it should end.

We have none of that from Hamilton. So either he didn't write anything along those lines, or he held no such views and wrote privately about favoring slavery (and had it edited by his literary executors.)

Both Jefferson and Hamilton were hypocrites -- Jefferson agonized about it for the record, Hamilton did not. 

[Ghost of LL 15493]

21 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

We have Jefferson on the record writing at length about the evils of slavery and how it should end.

We have none of that from Hamilton. So either he didn't write anything along those lines, or he held no such views and wrote privately about favoring slavery (and had it edited by his literary executors.)

Both Jefferson and Hamilton were hypocrites -- Jefferson agonized about it for the record, Hamilton did not. 

That's just wrong.  Even a cursory review of Hamilton's papers--and they are extensive--reveals an opposition to slavery throughout Hamilton's adult life.

Jefferson didn't agonize about shit.  He paid lip service (while demanding rather more service from his slaves--particularly the female ones).  There's no record of Hamilton ever owning slaves as an adult (though it appears that he bought slaves on behalf of his brother-in-law).  And there's actually evidence to show affirmatively that he did not (i.e., correspondence between the Schuyler sisters lamenting Elizabeth's lack of domestic help).

I'll tell you--there's so much to criticize Hamilton for.  I don't know why one would want to die on this particular hill.

[Nivek 16863]

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 The fact is Hamilton worked in the slave trade on St. Croix though historians like to say he clerked in an import / export business. What the fuck do you think Hamilton's business was importing? 

 

Cruzian Hook bracelets and rum?  

[TXSG8R 3360]

So the DHS being deployed to protect statues over the holiday weekend feels like the deployment of the Army to the border to stop the caravans.  I guess the DHS may not get fucked as hard since they can probably draw overtime, but its still more about posturing than anything substantive.  

[Michael Knight 12898]

 

[Ted Lange 16053]

 

For the local sheriff. 
 

We’re not wanting the liberals and the press telling us we have to change it. People here do not feel it’s racism,” he said.

“It’s so ridiculous; 99 percent of the people don’t have any idea [that the Confederate flag is on the insignia]. It’s just something that’s there. I’ve had more local people in favor of it than against it,” Wuttke added.

The local city council has also reportedly opposed changing the logo’s design, which has been around for more than a decade, in the past and defended it as a means to “represent our heritage.”

 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

That's just wrong.  Even a cursory review of Hamilton's papers--and they are extensive--reveals an opposition to slavery throughout Hamilton's adult life.

Jefferson didn't agonize about shit.  He paid lip service (while demanding rather more service from his slaves--particularly the female ones).  There's no record of Hamilton ever owning slaves as an adult (though it appears that he bought slaves on behalf of his brother-in-law).  And there's actually evidence to show affirmatively that he did not (i.e., correspondence between the Schuyler sisters lamenting Elizabeth's lack of domestic help).

I'll tell you--there's so much to criticize Hamilton for.  I don't know why one would want to die on this particular hill.

Jefferson tried to put an anti-slavery plank in the freaking Declaration of Independence...Hamilton has been the beneficiary of 200-plus years of concerted positive propaganda while Jefferson has been on the defense for about 50 years now. 

Where are Hamilton's private writings lamenting the existence of slavery? Where are his declarations that it needed to be abolished? There are none. Given absence of these, and little jottings here and there indicating that he did owned slaves buried deep in his business records, we can assume that he either didn't feel very strongly about abolitionism or his views were pro-slavery and thus redacted from the record by his widow and / or his son. One of the articles I posted affirmatively stated that Hamilton's record was spit-polished by his widow and son to suit the times they were living in (and one suggested much was removed indicating that Hamilton and Laurens were much more than friends and army buddies NTTIAWT) and there is ample reason to suppose some of that redacted content concerned unpalatable views of slavery.

Never has so little evidence been spun into so much effort to make an abolitionist out of a founder who was, simply put, not an abolitionist.  

[Ghost of LL 15493]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Jefferson tried to put an anti-slavery plank in the freaking Declaration of Independence...Hamilton has been the beneficiary of 200-plus years of concerted positive propaganda while Jefferson has been on the defense for about 50 years now. 

Where are Hamilton's private writings lamenting the existence of slavery? Where are his declarations that it needed to be abolished? There are none. Given absence of these, and little jottings here and there indicating that he did owned slaves buried deep in his business records, we can assume that he either didn't feel very strongly about abolitionism or his views were pro-slavery and thus redacted from the record by his widow and / or his son. One of the articles I posted affirmatively stated that Hamilton's record was spit-polished by his widow and son to suit the times they were living in (and one suggested much was removed indicating that Hamilton and Laurens were much more than friends and army buddies NTTIAWT) and there is ample reason to suppose some of that redacted content concerned unpalatable views of slavery.

Never has so little evidence been spun into so much effort to make an abolitionist out of a founder who was, simply put, not an abolitionist.  

You don't need his private writings.  His very first published essay expresses opposition to slavery and expresses his views on the equality of all men.  And if you want to look a the private correspondence, there are letters from Hamilton to any number of other people (including John Jay and William Livingston), expressing the same opinions.  Such correspondence, by definition, goes to a third party, which means that Elizabeth Hamilton would've have been able to "spit-polish" or censor those writings.

I'm not going to go through them chapter-and-verse.  There are plenty of excellent biographies on Hamilton.  And if you read them, there are plenty of unimpeachable contemporary documents reflecting Hamilton's genuine opposition to slavery.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You don't need his private writings.  His very first published essay expresses opposition to slavery and expresses his views on the equality of all men.  And if you want to look a the private correspondence, there are letters from Hamilton to any number of other people (including John Jay and William Livingston), expressing the same opinions.  Such correspondence, by definition, goes to a third party, which means that Elizabeth Hamilton would've have been able to "spit-polish" or censor those writings.

I'm not going to go through them chapter-and-verse.  There are plenty of excellent biographies on Hamilton.  And if you read them, there are plenty of unimpeachable contemporary documents reflecting Hamilton's genuine opposition to slavery.

All in contradiction to this:

 

http://schuylermansion.blogspot.com/2016/12/mansion-mythbusters-hamilton-and.html

[Brisketexan 104637]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

 

For the local sheriff. 
 

We’re not wanting the liberals and the press telling us we have to change it. People here do not feel it’s racism,” he said.

“It’s so ridiculous; 99 percent of the people don’t have any idea [that the Confederate flag is on the insignia]. It’s just something that’s there. I’ve had more local people in favor of it than against it,” Wuttke added.

The local city council has also reportedly opposed changing the logo’s design, which has been around for more than a decade, in the past and defended it as a means to “represent our heritage.”

 

 

South Dakota's "heritage" as a Confederate state?  South Dakota, which became a state in [checks notes] 1889, 24 years after the Civil War ended....

So, what I get out of this is that these folks are both 1) racist pieces of shit and 2) failed fucking high school history.  Fucking dumbass pieces of shit.

[4th&Five 41461]

My South Dakota grandparents were much more racist than my Texas ones. This does not surprise me. 

[workswithseed 2037]

40 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All in contradiction to this:

 

http://schuylermansion.blogspot.com/2016/12/mansion-mythbusters-hamilton-and.html

He also didn't admit that he was wrong about Jefferson.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

South Dakota's "heritage" as a Confederate state?  South Dakota, which became a state in [checks notes] 1889, 24 years after the Civil War ended....

So, what I get out of this is that these folks are both 1) racist pieces of shit and 2) failed fucking high school history.  Fucking dumbass pieces of shit.

Fuck that shit, we Southerners do not want the Dakotas on our team.,..

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don’t give a fuck about Thomas Jefferson’s writings or letters or speeches he was a pedophile rapist and kept his own children he had with Sally Hemings as slaves.

Sally was 14 years old when Jefferson first raped her and she was the half sister of Jefferson’s wife too. Jefferson’s father in law had six children with Sally’s mother and she was his slave.

[

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Fuck Thomas Jefferson.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

22 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Fuck Thomas Jefferson.

I’m not excusing any behavior but many of the great thought leaders over the past few hundred years were huge pieces of shit in their private lives.  

They lived a life of ultimate privilege and comfort which is why they had so much time to think and write.  While we can condemn their horrific behaviors it doesn’t have to nor should it erase their contributions.

Karl Marx, also a huge scumbag in the home. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not excusing any behavior but many of the great thought leaders over the past few hundred years were huge pieces of shit in their private lives.  

They lived a life of ultimate privilege and comfort which is why they had so much time to think and write.  While we can condemn their horrific behaviors it doesn’t have to nor should it erase their contributions.

Karl Marx, also a huge scumbag in the home. 

I'm sure Karl felt he was too good to do proletariat work like washing the dishes or straightening the house.  

[Ghost of LL 15493]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All in contradiction to this:

 

http://schuylermansion.blogspot.com/2016/12/mansion-mythbusters-hamilton-and.html

Only in contradiction about his writings.  They say what they say.  His letters to Jay express clear opposition to slavery.  His very first public essay expresses opposition to slavery.

The writer of the fine piece you post dismisses these writings, saying that you have to "read between the lines."  That's not much of a disputation.

As to whether Hamilton owned slaves, the author is in the minority among historians on this issue--a point she acknowledges.

27 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not excusing any behavior but many of the great thought leaders over the past few hundred years were huge pieces of shit in their private lives.  

They lived a life of ultimate privilege and comfort which is why they had so much time to think and write.  While we can condemn their horrific behaviors it doesn’t have to nor should it erase their contributions.

Karl Marx, also a huge scumbag in the home. 

Yea, no.  Sorry.  "Grab 'em by the pussy" isn't a matter of one's private life.  Jefferson was a rapist.  And he was understood to be a rapist by the mores of the day.  That's why his relationship with Sally Hemmings was used by the Federalist as a political attack against him, and why the Republicans sued the authors for defamation.  The allegation was considered to be scandalous, even among the slaveholding class.

One can recognize Jefferson's contributions.  But at some point, he's not a good man who did some bad things; he's a bad man who did some good things.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

South Dakota's "heritage" as a Confederate state?  South Dakota, which became a state in [checks notes] 1889, 24 years after the Civil War ended....

So, what I get out of this is that these folks are both 1) racist pieces of shit and 2) failed fucking high school history.  Fucking dumbass pieces of shit.

They also mentioned that it's been there for more than a decade. So someone in the late 2000's thought it was a good idea to add that.

If they're so down with the losing secessionist movement lump them back in with North Dakota and give their Senate and House seats to Puerto Rico.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

One can recognize Jefferson's contributions.  But at some point, he's not a good man who did some bad things; he's a bad man who did some good things.

That is what I was trying to say but obviously failed at articulating it.  So when we taking Jefferson off the two dollar bill? 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Ghost of LL 15493]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That is what I was trying to say but obviously failed at articulating it.  So when we taking Jefferson off the two dollar bill? 

Nah.  Fuck it.  We have to draw the line somewhere.  And I'm good with the line being "treason."  So confederates have to go.  But Jefferson can stay.

Now Jackson, on the other hand, presents a tougher one.  He's a legitimately bad guy who did a lot of bad things (genocide being chief among them).  Hard not to take him off the $20.

[Saint Austin 745]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

South Dakota's "heritage" as a Confederate state?  South Dakota, which became a state in [checks notes] 1889, 24 years after the Civil War ended....

So, what I get out of this is that these folks are both 1) racist pieces of shit and 2) failed fucking high school history.  Fucking dumbass pieces of shit.

The name of the South Dakota town is Gettysburg. Not that that justifies it, but does make it less out-of-nowhere.

[Brisketexan 104637]

The name of the South Dakota town is Gettysburg. Not that that justifies it, but does make it less out-of-nowhere.

So....a location. Some famous for a UNION victory...and a speech from the AMERICAN president. Sure. That South Dakota had nothing to do with (no “heritage” at all). Fuck em.

[MillerEP 30339]

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/01/dhs-announces-new-task-force-protect-american-monuments-memorials-and-statues

DHS Announces New Task Force to Protect American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues

 

Release Date: 

July 1, 2020

WASHINGTON— Today, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security, Chad F. Wolf, announced the establishment of the DHS Protecting American Communities Task Force (PACT), a special task force to coordinate Departmental law enforcement agency assets in protecting our nation’s historic monuments, memorials, statues, and federal facilities.

“DHS is answering the President’s call to use our law enforcement personnel across the country to protect our historic landmarks,” said Acting Secretary Wolf. “We won’t stand idly by while violent anarchists and rioters seek not only to vandalize and destroy the symbols of our nation, but to disrupt law and order and sow chaos in our communities.”

On June 26th, President Trump issued an Executive Order to ensure that our historic monuments and statues will be protected. The Order, “Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Activity,” directs DHS, within its statutory authority, to provide personnel to assist with the protection of federal monuments, memorials, statues, or property.

As a result, DHS created the PACT, which will conduct ongoing assessments of potential civil unrest or destruction and allocate resources to protect people and property. This may involve potential surge activity to ensure the continuing protection of critical locations. DHS’s Office of Operations Coordination will also partner closely with the Departments of Justice and Interior to establish information and intelligence sharing.

“As we approach the July 4th holiday, I have directed the deployment and pre-positioning of Rapid Deployment Teams (RDT) across the country to respond to potential threats to facilities and property,” said Acting Secretary Wolf. “While the Department respects every American’s right to protest peacefully, violence and civil unrest will not be tolerated.”

[Ted Lange 16053]

Berlin TX cops should wear SS badges.  HISTORY!
 

Also, guess what, the city of Gettysburg, where the actual battle happened, their cops ain’t sporting Rebel Flags.  , 

[WhatTheBuck 28716]

They took down the statue of Christopher Columbus at Columbus City Hall today. 

https://www.10tv.com/mobile/article/news/local/christopher-columbus-statue-outside-city-hall-being-removed/530-fc2c8f0f-197f-47a1-b6d4-64e14f0ffc3d

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

Haha FUUUCK YOU JOSH HAWLEY!

 

[mdmost 42866]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

 

[Brisketexan 104637]

Oh, and as an interesting punchline, my son just texted me about a photo he saw at the grandparents house (he is masked up, driving grandpa to a medical appointment).

It's a photo of me in high school, looking cool lounging on my bed with my bitchin' cordless phone.  And on the bookcase behind me.....is a small 6 flag set of every flag of the confederacy.  Pretty sure I picked it up at the gift shop of some Civil War site we had visited in Mississippi or Louisiana or whatnot.  And why did I pick it up?  Well, because I was a child ot Texas in the 70s and 80s -- the "noble lost cause" was the prevailing story.  One that teenaged-Brisket bought hook, line, and sinker.  Wasn't till I got to college, broadened my reading, etc., that I began to realize "nope, that shit was about slavery, bad shit."

Still, pretty embarrassing to get called out on that shit by your own teenage son, but he did, and I just told it to him like it was.  Again, generations of Texas kids were taught bullshit along the lines of "heritage, not hate," and we fucking bought it, dumbass rubes that we were.  Fucking pathetic.

[workswithseed 2037]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and as an interesting punchline, my son just texted me about a photo he saw at the grandparents house (he is masked up, driving grandpa to a medical appointment).

It's a photo of me in high school, looking cool lounging on my bed with my bitchin' cordless phone.  And on the bookcase behind me.....is a small 6 flag set of every flag of the confederacy.  Pretty sure I picked it up at the gift shop of some Civil War site we had visited in Mississippi or Louisiana or whatnot.  And why did I pick it up?  Well, because I was a child ot Texas in the 70s and 80s -- the "noble lost cause" was the prevailing story.  One that teenaged-Brisket bought hook, line, and sinker.  Wasn't till I got to college, broadened my reading, etc., that I began to realize "nope, that shit was about slavery, bad shit."

Still, pretty embarrassing to get called out on that shit by your own teenage son, but he did, and I just told it to him like it was.  Again, generations of Texas kids were taught bullshit along the lines of "heritage, not hate," and we fucking bought it, dumbass rubes that we were.  Fucking pathetic.

Damn, I thought you were gonna say the 6 flags of Texas. That would have been way easier to talk about.

[InkaUtexas 25527]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Damn, I thought you were gonna say the 6 flags of Texas. That would have been way easier to talk about.

Vive le France bitches. 

[Brisketexan 104637]

6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Damn, I thought you were gonna say the 6 flags of Texas. That would have been way easier to talk about.

Nope, it was full-on teenage ignorant/stupid.

[workswithseed 2037]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope, it was full-on teenage ignorant/stupid.

Eh, you grew up. You're a much smarter man than you were once was.

[Brisketexan 104637]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Eh, you grew up. You're a much smarter man than you were once was.

Opinions on that are mixed.

[workswithseed 2037]

10 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Vive le France bitches. 

As long as they shaved thier pits,.

[bad_teammate 13133]

25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and as an interesting punchline, my son just texted me about a photo he saw at the grandparents house (he is masked up, driving grandpa to a medical appointment).

It's a photo of me in high school, looking cool lounging on my bed with my bitchin' cordless phone.  And on the bookcase behind me.....is a small 6 flag set of every flag of the confederacy.  Pretty sure I picked it up at the gift shop of some Civil War site we had visited in Mississippi or Louisiana or whatnot.  And why did I pick it up?  Well, because I was a child ot Texas in the 70s and 80s -- the "noble lost cause" was the prevailing story.  One that teenaged-Brisket bought hook, line, and sinker.  Wasn't till I got to college, broadened my reading, etc., that I began to realize "nope, that shit was about slavery, bad shit."

Still, pretty embarrassing to get called out on that shit by your own teenage son, but he did, and I just told it to him like it was.  Again, generations of Texas kids were taught bullshit along the lines of "heritage, not hate," and we fucking bought it, dumbass rubes that we were.  Fucking pathetic.

That's funny. I never had respect for that flag not because I'm so woke and was born with a trans flag in my baby fist, but because my mother's piece of shit brother looooved the god damned flag and was a hellacious racist. Aversion to that single piece of shit human was a huge help in what was otherwise a minefield in the Jasper area.

Grudging respect to my dogshit (now dead, RIP) uncle for sowing the seeds of anti-Confederacy in my young mind through his sheer obnoxiousness.

[Brisketexan 104637]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

That's funny. I never had respect for that flag not because I'm so woke and was born with a trans flag in my baby fist, but because my mother's piece of shit brother looooved the god damned flag and was a hellacious racist. Aversion to that single piece of shit human was a huge help in what was otherwise a minefield in the Jasper area.

Grudging respect to my dogshit (now dead, RIP) uncle for sowing the seeds of anti-Confederacy in my young mind through his sheer obnoxiousness.

Yeah, see, I really wasn't around that many open racists....which was somewhat surprising, as my dad and his running buddies were oil patch.  And some of them were a bit rough around the edges.  I did hear the N-work more than a couple of times, but I knew from early on that was a shit word, and people who used it were pretty shitty.  But I also grew up visiting southern Civil War sites, plantations (LOTS of them -- dad worked in south Louisiana a lot, and we'd tag along in the summer, so visiting plantations was a regular activity).  And they did a fine job of whitewashing and romanticizing the old south and the "war of northern aggression."   I didn't really have to get "woke" -- I mean, my parents did a pretty good job of teaching me that racism and racists were shit.  I just had to grow up a bit to learn that yep, the whole romantic old south was eyeballs deep in that shit.

[Walser 1107]

Honestly appreciate the input like this. Helps me navigate how I am where I am. 

[Brisketexan 104637]

1 minute ago, Walser said:

Honestly appreciate the input like this. Helps me navigate how I am where I am. 

GPS probably does a better job of that.

[workswithseed 2037]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

GPS probably does a better job of that.

God doesn't tell time, dumbass. 

[Brisketexan 104637]

Just now, workswithseed said:

God doesn't tell time, dumbass. 

Are you saying that Jesus Christ can't read a wristwatch?

[workswithseed 2037]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Are you saying that Jesus Christ can't read a wristwatch?

Haha, I should reread before I post.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

He hates American soldiers. Period. Full stop.

I was going to post the clip from The Jerk about hating cans, but I couldn't bring myself to make a flippant joke about our Commander in Chief, who avoided service by fabricating a story about a bone spur to receive a medical deferment, so casually taking the safety and well-being of those who chose to serve for granted.

Of all the things Trump has done, the Russian bounty story is so abhorrent that if it were literally anyone else I don't think I would believe it was true. The lie about not being briefed or not reading it are at a minimum dereliction of duty, but now he knows, and not only refuses to act, but tries to deflect blame.

I kind of understand sticking his head in the sand on covid because he wanted the economy to recover to help his chances of reelection, and now he can't go back because he's a damaged individual who can never admit that he was wrong.

I didn't serve, and faced with a draft when I was between the ages of 18 to 25 I would have probably done anything I could to avoid it, just like the president.

His disdain for those who serve, those who have chosen to put themselves in harm's way, who he must consider suckers, is an utter disgrace. I'm sickened.

I'm sickened by those that don't take the steps necessary to hold him accountable, and hold a special loathing for those that defend and promote him.

I know that this weekend isn't meant to remember the sacrifices of those who gave their lives for our country, or even to thank them for their service, but rather to celebrate our independence. Even so, I'd like to thank all of you and your family members, like my grandfather, who answered our nation's call.

[Enchubben 5509]

#CancelElk makes sense; I’ve never seen a black one.

[Guest Lobo]

As long as they don't come for the Moose, Larry should be okay...