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Thread of Statue Removals

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

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13 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They just built a very expensive-looking citadel of a new school down there -- what few people who are still there seem determined to stay forever. There is also a Coast Guard station and there is even a motel. I think the Boot Scoot Tavern is long gone, though there are still signs pointing to where it used to be. 

Sabine Pass is one of many coastal Texas towns that was once envisioned as something much more than it ended up to be. It was supposed to *be* Port Arthur, not one day get annexed by Port Arthur. Man, getting annexed by Port Arthur...that's a sure sign your town has gone to hell if Port Arthur is annexing you. (I am in the tiny minority of Texans who genuinely likes PA, but it's got problems.)

 

Are the nice houses on the island still in SPISD? I remember in the 80s/90s when they started building out there, sales were pretty slow. I moved to Austin and came back for a visit, and they were building McMansions out there as fast as they could get them up. I said something to my grandmother about it and she said "yea, now that it's part of Sabine Pass ISD, people are more willing to move out there". So at some point, SPISD annexed at least part of Pleasure Island, and the well to do families started buying waterfront homes. This was before PAISD consolidated a bunch of schools and created Memorial High School. So if you lived on the island and your kids were in school in Sabine Pass, you had to drive right past Carver Elementary and Lincoln High School (both about 95% Black) to even get to Hwy 87 to go to Sabine Pass. At one point, they even had an old crew boat converted into a "School Boat" that would pick the kids up at a dock on the island and take them down the ship channel to a dock in Sabine Pass, then put them on a bus to go the rest of the way. 

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Bartles

Bartles 769

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Confederate memorial in Pioneer Park Dallas has been approved for removal. There's supposed to be a BLM rally there around now (4 pm CT), and also Dallas Sons of the Confederacy were planning to protest and encouraged their members to bring guns. I don't see anything on Twitter so hopefully all is well

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mdmost

mdmost 42866

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22 minutes ago, Bartles said:

Confederate memorial in Pioneer Park Dallas has been approved for removal. There's supposed to be a BLM rally there around now (4 pm CT), and also Dallas Sons of the Confederacy were planning to protest and encouraged their members to bring guns. I don't see anything on Twitter so hopefully all is well

Good. Long past due. 

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6568

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They removed the Confederate memorials at the Grimes Co courthouse some years ago. Surprising given how racist that county could be plus it was historically a large slave holding area. Of course they moved them to a private area and created a park of sorts a 100 yards away.

Yet I noticed the other day that Llano county still flies a Confederate flag and has a memorial at the courthouse. In 2020 despite limited Confederate legacy. Shit is straight racism

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

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30 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

They removed the Confederate memorials at the Grimes Co courthouse some years ago. Surprising given how racist that county could be plus it was historically a large slave holding area. Of course they moved them to a private area and created a park of sorts a 100 yards away.

Yet I noticed the other day that Llano county still flies a Confederate flag and has a memorial at the courthouse. In 2020 despite limited Confederate legacy. Shit is straight racism

Drive around Llano county and you’ll see a not insignificant number of rebel flags flying off of ranch gates. 

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elfenix

elfenix 34176

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38 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

They removed the Confederate memorials at the Grimes Co courthouse some years ago.

we did some litigation up there about 15 years ago and one party's first three names were "Robert E. Lee"

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10981

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On 6/9/2020 at 3:05 PM, kevwun said:

Jefferson did some really dirty stuff while he was Secretary of State in his efforts to sabotage Hamilton and the Federalists.  Things that are so disloyal that they could almost be called treasonous.  I have no problem saying he was a bad person.

 

JEFFERSON:
Ooh, if the shoe fits, wear it
If New York’s in debt—
Why should Virginia bear it? Uh! Our debts are paid, I’m afraid
Don’t tax the South cuz we got it made in the shade
In Virginia, we plant seeds in the ground
We create. You just wanna move our money around
This financial plan is an outrageous demand
And it’s too many damn pages for any man to understand
Stand with me in the land of the free
And pray to God we never see Hamilton’s candidacy
Look, when Britain taxed our tea, we got frisky
Imagine what gon’ happen when you try to tax our whisky
 

HAMILTON:
Thomas. That was a real nice declaration
Welcome to the present, we’re running a real nation
Would you like to join us, or stay mellow
Doin’ whatever the hell it is you do in Monticello?
If we assume the debts, the union gets
A new line of credit, a financial diuretic
How do you not get it? If we’re aggressive and competitive
The union gets a boost. You’d rather give it a sedative?
A civics lesson from a slaver. Hey neighbor
Your debts are paid cuz you don’t pay for labor
“We plant seeds in the South. We create.”
Yeah, keep ranting
We know who’s really doing the planting
And another thing, Mr. Age of Enlightenment
Don’t lecture me about the war, you didn’t fight in it
You think I’m frightened of you, man?
We almost died in a trench
While you were off getting high with the French
Thomas Jefferson, always hesitant with the President
Reticent—there isn’t a plan he doesn’t jettison
Madison, you’re mad as a hatter, son, take your medicine
Damn, you’re in worse shape than the national debt is in
Sittin’ there useless as two shits
Hey, turn around, bend over, I’ll show you
Where my shoe fits
 

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10981

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On 6/9/2020 at 9:23 PM, Gatorubet said:

I am a fan of Robert E. Lee.  For many years I had both he and Frederick Douglass hanging in my office as exemplars of human complexity and the power to forgive when hate was far easier an approach.  

That said, while I am happy to share a drink and explain that position, I am just as convinced that there is no place for a monument of any Confederate General in any public institution.  And the simple fact that it is painful to others is as good a reason as any to take them down.  So ultimately it will be history nerds left to discuss the nuances of the human spirit and psyche with other history nerds.

Bobby Lee was the one man most responsible for preventing the Confederacy from morphing into a bunch of armed vigilante bands for the decades after the war, and for that I am thankful.  That, and for being so reasonable about his yard being used as a burying ground for Union Troops.   Fucker should have accepted the command of the Union army when he was asked by Lincoln.

 

You mean like these guys?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F3a%2F48%2Fb45b8aab4d6ab830627ace06660f%2F170816-rwds-charlottesville-getty-1160.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10981

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19 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

You mean like these guys?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F3a%2F48%2Fb45b8aab4d6ab830627ace06660f%2F170816-rwds-charlottesville-getty-1160.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

 

(damn it, there are supposed to be pics of white militia dipshits posted there)

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HRSchenker

HRSchenker 2259

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2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

How old are those guys? 150?

My 8th great grandfather served in the Revolutionary War and I had a family member inquire about joining the Sons of the American Revolution. I emailed the guy running the local chapter and he invited me to one of their meetings that ended up being at an assisted living facility. Hard pass on that lol

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

My 8th great grandfather served in the Revolutionary War and I had a family member inquire about joining the Sons of the American Revolution. I emailed the guy running the local chapter and he invited me to one of their meetings that ended up being at an assisted living facility. Hard pass on that lol

Drive your plow over the bones of the dead - Proverb of Hell, William Blake

On 6/12/2020 at 9:43 PM, cactusflinthead said:

Is the base renaming the same as a statue?

Where did I post earlier?

Nvm this'll do 

 

As it turns out, this is a great wedge issue against my Republican Congressman (Don Bacon, NE-2).  To play the moderate, he supports the name change, and now he is getting ripped by many of his racist supporters.  He can't win without them.  Five months from now, many of them will return to the fold to defeat the scary "socialist", but not all of them.  I imagine this dynamic is also at play in other purplish districts in the Midwest. 

 

Edited by Tuco
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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30120

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8 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

You mean like these guys?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F3a%2F48%2Fb45b8aab4d6ab830627ace06660f%2F170816-rwds-charlottesville-getty-1160.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Wait - they have pictures of Frederick Douglass hanging in their offices as reminders of the power to forgive when hate was far easier an approach???

So - progress? 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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22 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Are the nice houses on the island still in SPISD? I remember in the 80s/90s when they started building out there, sales were pretty slow. I moved to Austin and came back for a visit, and they were building McMansions out there as fast as they could get them up. I said something to my grandmother about it and she said "yea, now that it's part of Sabine Pass ISD, people are more willing to move out there". So at some point, SPISD annexed at least part of Pleasure Island, and the well to do families started buying waterfront homes. This was before PAISD consolidated a bunch of schools and created Memorial High School. So if you lived on the island and your kids were in school in Sabine Pass, you had to drive right past Carver Elementary and Lincoln High School (both about 95% Black) to even get to Hwy 87 to go to Sabine Pass. At one point, they even had an old crew boat converted into a "School Boat" that would pick the kids up at a dock on the island and take them down the ship channel to a dock in Sabine Pass, then put them on a bus to go the rest of the way. 

That I don't know, but that new school is pretty spectacular. It is sturdier looking than even the Coast Guard installation, and the student body would seem to be draw from more than just the immediate surroundings. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29410

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3 hours ago, mdmost said:

The Kentucky Governor removed the statue of Kentucky native, Jefferson Davis, from their Capitol building. Will wonders never cease. 

And yet, here in Texas, we have still have a county and mountain range named after that asshole.

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bolverk

bolverk 29410

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30 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Any update on the militia shooting? Is that guy in custody for shooting a protester?

NPR story says he's been taken into custody. Here's probably the best video of what happened:

Tweeter says the man was trying to defend himself. Others in the thread argue the man was being violent before the incident. Here's video of that apparently happening.

I can't find it now, but there's a comment somewhere in there about him stating his dad works for the sheriff's office. Lots to unpack here.

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Llano Estacado

Llano Estacado 1257

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What a cluster fuck. I can’t imagine feeling enough elegance to a fucking statue of Onate to get violent or risk someone getting violent against me.

Looked this morning to try and see earlier videos of any confrontations between militia bro and skateboard bro, but couldn’t find anything on news or twitterverse. Glad I’m not a NM DA. “Hey boss, unpack these 50 conflicting eyewitness reports and bad cell phone footage. Who do we charge and with what?”

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17567

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27 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I wonder what the over/under on the Stone Mountain monument in Georgia is. It’s bigger than Mt Rushmore.

Maybe they can just replace the heads with OutKast and Killer Mike, out for a nice horsey ride.

I'd pay to see a concert at the base of that mountain.  

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

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5 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I wonder what the over/under on the Stone Mountain monument in Georgia is. It’s bigger than Mt Rushmore.

Maybe they can just replace the heads with OutKast and Killer Mike, out for a nice horsey ride.

Isn't Stone Mountain private land? 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted

The Onate removal is interesting because it's indicative of what it means to be Hispanic. Do you identify with the conquistadores or the indigenous?

In some ways the whole "Hispanic / Latin(x) / Chican(x)" idea is a way for colonialists to paper over the fact that we Euros are still lording it over indigenous populations, from Montreal to Tierra del Fuego.

Does the average Mexican from say, Puebla, identify more with Hernan Cortes or Cuauhtemoc?  

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31296

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The Onate removal is interesting because it's indicative of what it means to be Hispanic. Do you identify with the conquistadores or the indigenous?

In some ways the whole "Hispanic / Latin(x) / Chican(x)" idea is a way for colonialists to paper over the fact that we Euros are still lording it over indigenous populations, from Montreal to Tierra del Fuego.

Does the average Mexican from say, Puebla, identify more with Hernan Cortes or Cuauhtemoc?  

 

The whole "hispanic," or "latin" for that matter, as an oppressed minority is fundamentally a misnomer.

The brown part that results in oppression and discrimination is Native American. Only the "borrowed" names and language have anything in common with anything relating to the Iberian Peninsula.

Cortez, Cabeza de Vaca, all of them were white men.

It's like calling Indonesians Dutch.  Absurd.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26287

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Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Does the average Mexican from say, Puebla, identify more with Hernan Cortes or Cuauhtemoc? 

Supposedly there is not a single statue of Cortes anywhere in Mexico. Even though a bazillion of the Nahuatl speakers helped him whoop up on the Mexica.

Maximilian, oddly, gets some sympathy. Or maybe not so oddly-- he went to the firing squad because they wouldn't spare his staff officers. That's worthy of a corrido. Obviously fake Maximilian "gold" coins pop up as cool semi-historical keepsakes.

Columbus Day is celebrated in Mexico (or at least, in one Mexican primary school that I walked past after Columbus Day.) No fucks given.

I realize my answer is not clear, therefore it might be accurate.

 

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