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Thread of Statue Removals

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18092

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17 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Supposedly there is not a single statue of Cortes anywhere in Mexico. Even though a bazillion of the Nahuatl speakers helped him whoop up on the Mexica.

Maximilian, oddly, gets some sympathy. Or maybe not so oddly-- he went to the firing squad because they wouldn't spare his staff officers. That's worthy of a corrido. Obviously fake Maximilian "gold" coins pop up as cool semi-historical keepsakes.

Columbus Day is celebrated in Mexico (or at least, in one Mexican primary school that I walked past after Columbus Day.) No fucks given.

I realize my answer is not clear, therefore it might be accurate.

 

I don't think this is accurate. 

1920px-Monumento_al_Mestizaje.jpg

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2018/01/29/a-lesson-from-mexico-how-to-forgive-historical-wrongs-to-do-right-in-the-present/

 

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26854

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1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

I don't think this is accurate. 

1920px-Monumento_al_Mestizaje.jpg

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2018/01/29/a-lesson-from-mexico-how-to-forgive-historical-wrongs-to-do-right-in-the-present/

 

Well I'll be hornswoggled-- it's been there since 1982.

Pretty funny they call Coyoacán a "village." It's an artsy-fartsy suburb where the girls grew monobrows.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18092

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43 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Well I'll be hornswoggled-- it's been there since 1982.

Pretty funny they call Coyoacán a "village." It's an artsy-fartsy suburb where the girls grew monobrows.

I just got done reading a couple books on La Conquista, so it was fresh in my mind.  

So these monobrowed girls...were they hot?  You know, except for their monobrows?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106630

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2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

I don't think this is accurate. 

1920px-Monumento_al_Mestizaje.jpg

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2018/01/29/a-lesson-from-mexico-how-to-forgive-historical-wrongs-to-do-right-in-the-present/

 

I was just commenting on this to a friend - Mexico's approach to its complex past is refreshing in its honesty.  Mexico is a nation of mestizos, of descendants of the conquerors and the conquered (neither of whom was pure evil or squeaky clean).  And at least in various museums and such that we visited a couple of years ago, that was acknowledged, and the approach was much like some of the thoughts quoted in that article:

Quote

he famed Mexican writer Octavio Paz disagreed: “The hatred of Cortés is not hatred of Spain,” he said, “it is hatred of ourselves.” Writer Carlos Fuentes took the matter further: “I want to see Hernán Cortés in a Mexico City plaza so that we rid ourselves of this complex. There is no reason to negate the father, the mother, or the brother. We accept all that we are. I want to see a statue. I would love to. We are children of the prostitute, of the Conquistador, of la Malinche.” 

We are what we are, today.  We are a product of a messy, complex, history, and here we stand.  What matters most is where we go from here.

I think that kind of thinking has some real bearing on how we memorialize and discuss in the historical context the complex figures in our history who were also conquerors, slave-owners, and racist.  They are also our forefathers, and their work helped make us who we are, including many of the good things about us.  I see that as rather different than confederates who are memorialized primarily for their role as confederates -- that action was often purposeful in its aim to remind black people who was really boss, and the thing that is being memorialized is not really redeemable; they led a treasonous revolt for an odious cause.  But there are people who are important, and helped build and make America, who also happened to be confederates.  And they are memorialized for their accomplishments, not because they served the confederacy.

I would have liked us to have an honest and frank conversation about these sorts of things.  But alas, I think we opted out of that long ago.  So, here we are.

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bolverk

bolverk 30242

Posted
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3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Whoa.

 

I won't deny that driving around rural parts of Texas east of I-45 that you'll occasionally see a Confederate flag flying from some trailer park, but even as a white guy it's fucking creepy af to see the Mississippi state flag on poles at places of authority. I can't imagine what it'd be like to be Black and live in a state like that.

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13257

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1 minute ago, maninblack said:

Lenin is still up in Seattle. That should definitely be on the list.

That wasn't put up as some kind memeorial.  Some dude bought it when statues started coming down in Russia.  It was always my understanding that its considered more a piece of art than a nod to Lenin. 

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maninblack

maninblack 7975

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15 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

That wasn't put up as some kind memeorial.  Some dude bought it when statues started coming down in Russia.  It was always my understanding that its considered more a piece of art than a nod to Lenin. 

Looked it up. That's amazing. The irony is so delicious. So the Russian people had to endure a century of famine and death largely in part to Lenin and they removed it and junked it. 

Now it's on display in Seattle. Maybe a Russian art dealer should display the Confederate statues.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

Posted
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43 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Looked it up. That's amazing. The irony is so delicious. So the Russian people had to endure a century of famine and death largely in part to Lenin and they removed it and junked it. 

Now it's on display in Seattle. Maybe a Russian art dealer should display the Confederate statues.

And here we are fretting about a group of people who have had to endure centuries of forced labor and racial discrimination in a country that likes to pat itself on the back for promoting liberty and equality.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18092

Posted
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3 hours ago, maninblack said:

Looked it up. That's amazing. The irony is so delicious. So the Russian people had to endure a century of famine and death largely in part to Lenin and they removed it and junked it. 

Now it's on display in Seattle. Maybe a Russian art dealer should display the Confederate statues.

Hungarians have been there, done that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18092

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29 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

There's a non-zero chance that "Fuck America and all it stands for" will be part of the 2020 Democratic platform.

This is funny both because the GOP is just recycling the 2016 platform, which was basically "Fuck Obama," and also, they're actually doing the "Fuck American and all it stands for" stuff.

 

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26854

Posted
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21 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Whoa.

 

I Would love to see Mississippi say "Fuck You" to the SEC.

Not because I like their flag. Their flag sucks. But just because that ultimatum was written, with no sense of irony, in the SEC offices in the middle of downtown Bombingham. In the same state which flies a cute "Not Confederate, it's the Saltire of Burgundy!" flag. Yeah, find me Burgundy on a map without using your phone, you chinless propped-up-by-mommydaddy drool-wipe KA. The same conference where, up until yesterday, Yee-haw perpetual choke-asses Georgia had they own Rebel Flag.

And yeah, Florida/Sakalina/Tennsee/Tucky/All the rest suck too. How much time you got? But at least we're not Ohio. Nor did we reintroduce slavery to Mexican territory. That'd be fucking degenerate. Neg me. I drink your negs like pickle juice. mmm, electrolytes.

Anyway, the only path of honor would be for Mississippi to change their flag, AND leave the SEC. It's actually pretty low-risk; who knows if football will ever make a dime again. If it does, they'd still suck in the SEC. Why not join some other conference where they become the world's tallest midget?

 

tldr: some asshole in Birmingham Alabama was giving lectures on racism.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2201

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10 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

https://www-nbcbayarea-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-francisco/demonstrators-topple-statues-in-san-franciscos-golden-gate-park/2312839/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15926416062251&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcbayarea.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fsan-francisco%2Fdemonstrators-topple-statues-in-san-franciscos-golden-gate-park%2F2312839%2F

 

Several videos surfaced on social media Friday of statues of St. Junípero Serra, Ulysses S. Grant and Francis Scott Key being torn down in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park.

Police say about 400 protesters arrived around 8:30 p.m. Police say they did not engage with them.

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