Thread of Statue Removals

[HenryJames 67119]

I think it’s a Union statue so there is a second reason to, uh, keep it up.

[Sawbonz 28085]

11 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

 

Needs a BRAZZERS logo

[workswithseed 2201]

30 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

 

I like boobs.

[Guest Lobo]

I'm honestly surprised that there aren't self-organized "Town Square Militias" in the Deep South that stay up all night, armed, to protect confederate statues in the downtown/courthouse areas.  I'm being completely serious, I was genuinely expecting it.  

[StassneyHorn 6755]

If they did that, there would be no time left in the day to play Call of Duty.

[workswithseed 2201]

21 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I'm honestly surprised that there aren't self-organized "Town Square Militias" in the Deep South that stay up all night, armed, to protect confederate statues in the downtown/courthouse areas.  I'm being completely serious, I was genuinely expecting it.  

Yeah, same. I'm wondering either they don't want to be called racist (they probably don't care) or they don't care.

I was super sad yesterday about the George Washington statue, and I had no idea that it was gonna be taken down. I wished I was there to cut the ropes.

[Guest Lobo]

StassneyHorn-I'm willing to cut you in for 30% of my new video game series, but you gotta find a programmer/designer as well. 

CALL OF DUTY:  CONFEDERATE STATUE EDITION.  

You basically get geared up in your camo and tac gear, get your semi-automatics and your arsenal, take two weeks unpaid vacation from the plant, and you travel from southern town to southern town in a ridiculously oversized F-250 protecting statues from antifa and BLM.  Sometimes you even go undercover and infiltrate their ranks so you can save statues beforehand.  Other times, you gotta fistfight, small arms, large-scale platoon size battles, etc.  Some towns have cops that'll help you, some have cops that'll try to stop you.  In some towns, you're vilified, in others you're a hero.  So there's a heavy mental element to it besides all the shooting.  And you dial in your friends and they are rival mercenaries also trying to get contracts to safeguard statues in other southern towns and y'all have to build up a resume and compete for contracts, and sometimes even have to fight each other if you end up at the same site.  And the final mission is to of course to save the Final Trinity, the three officer statues in each of the 3 Confederate capitals-Danville, Montgomery, and Richmond. 

I promise we would sell 250,000 copies in the first year to gamers in the Deep South and Ohio.  However, it would destroy the rest of their brand, so they'll probably not allow to use the name and platform.  Shit.  Anybody got any workarounds?  I don't know how the splits work on video games, but is at least a $10mm idea.  

Edited June 20, 2020 by Lobo

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Henceforth all future statues must be of nude women or men, and maybe a horse. 

[HenryJames 67119]

The Grant statue will be put back up.

[Biff Tannen 46061]

6 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Several videos surfaced on social media Friday of statues of St. Junípero Serra, Ulysses S. Grant and Francis Scott Key being torn down in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park.

Does not compute.  These people are just being assholes now.

[SizzleChest 8302]

[Nice Guy Eddie 13708]

It's all based on personal opinion but some are taking the statue removals too far. But that is also a consequence of many tone deaf leaders of the past. When a group feels that an injustice has been systematic, their swinging pendulum is going to swing too far. This always happens. A few George Washington or Thomas Jefferson statues may pay the price of that.

If many of these confederate statues had been removed when we all knew they should be removed then the Washington or Grant statues would have not been targeted.

[Message Board User 12405]

If you thought that these statue removals were going to be limited to those from the Confederacy, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[elfenix 34659]

StassneyHorn-I'm willing to cut you in for 30% of my new video game series, but you gotta find a programmer/designer as well. 
CALL OF DUTY:  CONFEDERATE STATUE EDITION.  
You basically get geared up in your camo and tac gear, get your semi-automatics and your arsenal, take two weeks unpaid vacation from the plant, and you travel from southern town to southern town in a ridiculously oversized F-250 protecting statues from antifa and BLM.  Sometimes you even go undercover and infiltrate their ranks so you can save statues beforehand.  Other times, you gotta fistfight, small arms, large-scale platoon size battles, etc.  Some towns have cops that'll help you, some have cops that'll try to stop you.  In some towns, you're vilified, in others you're a hero.  So there's a heavy mental element to it besides all the shooting.  And you dial in your friends and they are rival mercenaries also trying to get contracts to safeguard statues in other southern towns and y'all have to build up a resume and compete for contracts, and sometimes even have to fight each other if you end up at the same site.  And the final mission is to of course to save the Final Trinity, the three officer statues in each of the 3 Confederate capitals-Danville, Montgomery, and Richmond. 
I promise we would sell 250,000 copies in the first year to gamers in the Deep South and Ohio.  However, it would destroy the rest of their brand, so they'll probably not allow to use the name and platform.  Shit.  Anybody got any workarounds?  I don't know how the splits work on video games, but is at least a $10mm idea.  

Just so long as there's an accurate driving sim between each town and the F-250 is out of alignment

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's all based on personal opinion but some are taking the statue removals too far. But that is also a consequence of many tone deaf leaders of the past. When a group feels that an injustice has been systematic, their swinging pendulum is going to swing too far. This always happens. A few George Washington or Thomas Jefferson statues may pay the price of that.

If many of these confederate statues had been removed when we all knew they should be removed then the Washington or Grant statues would have not been targeted.

That misses a salient point -- to remove Confederates and Confederates only makes the sin of the memorialized treason and treason only. 

The protests today are not about whether or not it was constitutional for the southern states to secede. They are now about slavery and racism.  DId the Confederacy and the Confederacy alone contain all of American racism and slavery?

Obviously, no, no it did not. Still, of all those whose statues have been pulled down, his is the most extreme in that he was pretty woke for his era. However he was responsible for attempting to expel every Jew from the Southern territory he had reconquered early in the war:

Quote

Grant's decree was “the most sweeping anti-Jewish regulation in all of American history,” historian and rabbi Bertram W. Korn noted in his book American Jewry and the Civil War.

Though the 1862 orders were aimed at cotton speculators, they gave all Jews—speculators or no—just 24 hours to leave their homes, businesses and lives behind. It was the culmination of a wave of anti-Semitism that swept through the United States in the year before the Civil War… and a decision that would haunt Grant for the rest of his life.

Lincoln squashed Grant's order but not until many were expelled from their homes and businesses.

I kinda doubt that was why his statue came down but you could chalk it up to karma, I guess.

[bad_teammate 13481]

If you're mad about statues being pulled down 1k miles from where you live, you need to think about why that makes you mad. It probably doesn't reflect well.

It's funny how people of certain ideologies demand more consistency and coherence from a protest movement than they do from the elected officials who created the situations that led to the protests.

Deep-seated authoritarianism.

[workswithseed 2201]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

If you're mad about statues being pulled down 1k miles from where you live, you need to think about why that makes you mad. It probably doesn't reflect well.

It's funny how people of certain ideologies demand more consistency and coherence from a protest movement than they do from the elected officials who created the situations that led to the protests.

Deep-seated authoritarianism.

I don't know who you're talking to, but neither of these were 1000 miles away.

Do you think it should be okay to tear down statues of Malcom X, or MLK?I'd hope not, I'd also hope it would make you a bit angry.

[bad_teammate 13481]

6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I don't know who you're talking to, but neither of these were 1000 miles away.

Texas -> California

Someone in Texas mad about Grant being taken down in SF is 1000+ miles away.

Quote

Do you think it should be okay to tear down statues of Malcom X, or MLK?I'd hope not, I'd also hope it would make you a bit angry.

The following questions are not rhetorical:
- Why would people tear down a statue of Francis Scott Key and Ulysses S. Grant?
- Why would people someone tear down a statue of Malcolm X or MLK?

The intentions and message are the problem. I'm 100% cool with anti-slavery intentions, even if they play out in a temporarily overexuberant way. I'm not cool with racist intentions, regardless of how they play out.

This shit isn't complicated.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13708]

It seems to be the fate of statues to eventually get torn down. 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

This is stupidity.  Grant married into a family who owned slaves, was given one and later freed him with no conditions despite being almost destitute because he hated the practice so much.  The rest of his resume' on slavery is well known.  Now if you want to criticize his policies on American Indians..... then I can't complain but it's stupidity to lump him in with Confederate personalities.  

[Hornius Emeritus 12780]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Does not compute.  These people are just being assholes now.

 

NFMF

Edited June 20, 2020 by Hornius Emeritus

[Message Board User 12405]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is stupidity...

And yet...silence from the media and the Democrats who know better but are afraid to incur the wrath of and get cancelled by the twitter mob.

[Michael Knight 13187]

If a few extra statues get torn down by mistake in the process it's no big deal. We're not talking Botticelli's here, they can get put back up once everything is sorted out

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2649]

The grant statute legit pisses me off 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Peter Pan down on Barton Springs. They're kicking his head around like a soccer ball in Zilker.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[bad_teammate 13481]

Such a strange thing to be mad about people 1500 miles away taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant.

Find better shit to get mad about.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2649]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Such a strange thing to be mad about people 1500 miles away taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant.

Find better shit to get mad about.

What does distance have to do with it?  

[workswithseed 2201]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Such a strange thing to be mad about people 1500 miles away taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant.

Find better shit to get mad about.

Also the distance thing is weird. Does taking down a Hitler statue all the way in Germany not make you happy since it's so far away?

 

[HenryJames 67119]

Best part of the right wingers getting pissed is that they fucking hate Grant.

[bad_teammate 13481]

6 minutes ago, Xian said:

What does distance have to do with it?  

Because it's not your city or public space. Why do you care what the people of San Francisco do with their public spaces?

What is it that makes you angry? Think about that and see if you can tell me.

What is it about people taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant in SF that angers you?

5 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Also the distance thing is weird. Does taking down a Hitler statue all the way in Germany not make you happy since it's so far away?

This is an idiotic comparison. It's Ulysses S. Grant; he's not relevant to anything going on right now.

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Because it's not your city or public space. Why do you care what the people of San Francisco do with their public spaces?

What is it that makes you angry? Think about that and see if you can tell me.

What is it about people taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant in SF that angers you?

This is an idiotic comparison. It's Ulysses S. Grant; he's not relevant to anything going on right now.

Then why take him down when he's not relevant?

[bad_teammate 13481]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Then why take him down when he's not relevant?

Don't know and don't care. They don't need to justify it to me. It's their park in their city and their intentions seem fine to me.

You (and others) are avoiding the question: Why does this make you mad?

[bad_teammate 13481]

If someone takes down a statue of Hitler, I like that because their intentions are anti-Nazi. Cool & good.

If someone takes down a statue of MLK, I hate that because their intentions are racist. Lame & bad.

If someone takes down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant while taking down other slaveowners next to it... what? It seems like their WORST crime is historical ignorance and overexubuerance.

Are you guys worried that it's indicative of a desire to commit white genocide? Are you just mad because they aren't stellar at history?

[formermav43 4607]

Sorry, not allowed to hate removing a statue of MLK unless it’s within a certain radius of your house.

[workswithseed 2201]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Don't know and don't care. They don't need to justify it to me. It's their park in their city and their intentions seem fine to me.

You (and others) are avoiding the question: Why does this make you mad?

Cause, they memorialize an idea. George Washington memorialize that you can be humble to rule a land, and not having to rule with an iron fist. Grant's is that you use force to free a populace that's under the boot.

[Michael Knight 13187]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Because it's not your city or public space. Why do you care what the people of San Francisco do with their public spaces?

What is it that makes you angry? Think about that and see if you can tell me.

What is it about people taking down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant in SF that angers you?

This is an idiotic comparison. It's Ulysses S. Grant; he's not relevant to anything going on right now.

In that case why get mad they are up in the first place?

[bad_teammate 13481]

6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Cause, they memorialize an idea. George Washington memorialize that you can be humble to rule a land, and not having to rule with an iron fist. Grant's is that you use force to free a populace that's under the boot.

Those are your ideas of George Washington and Ulysses S. Grant. It's clearly not theirs.

Do you think the people who took down these statues want an iron-fisted ruler? Do you think they oppose the use of force to attain freedom?

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

In that case why get mad they are up in the first place?

Because they are mad about people rejecting the common white supremacist interpretation of American history. And I oppose them for having an emotional allegiance to the white supremacist interpretation of American history.

I don't like it when white Southern men decide they are the noble keepers of America's history, because blood follows.

[formermav43 4607]

Because if anyone is upset at removing a statue of US Grant, it’s obviously white Southern men. 

[workswithseed 2201]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Those are your ideas of George Washington and Ulysses S. Grant. It's clearly not theirs.

Do you think the people who took down these statues want an iron-fisted ruler? Do you think they oppose the use of force to attain freedom?

 

why is weird that I'm mad when I project those ideas off those statues?

Maybe on both of your questions.

[Michael Knight 13187]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Those are your ideas of George Washington and Ulysses S. Grant. It's clearly not theirs.

Do you think the people who took down these statues want an iron-fisted ruler? Do you think they oppose the use of force to attain freedom?

Because they are mad about people rejecting the common white supremacist interpretation of American history. And I oppose them for having an emotional allegiance to the white supremacist interpretation of American history.

I don't like it when white Southern men decide they are the noble keepers of America's history, because blood follows.

It's 1000s of miles away, why do you care. That's your own stupid fucking argument btw

[Brothahorn 10096]

Best part of the right wingers getting pissed is that they fucking hate Grant.

Don’t be a dumbass all the time.

[workswithseed 2201]

Why would they hate Grant? He's so far away.

[bad_teammate 13481]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Because if anyone is upset at removing a statue of US Grant, it’s obviously white Southern men. 

Are you reading this thread?

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

why is weird that I'm mad when I project those ideas off those statues?

It's weird for you to think that they are tearing them down because they hate freedom. That you even think that's a possibility is strange as hell.

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

It's 1000s of miles away, why do you care.

What is the "it" here?

I am arguing with people right here in front of me (Internet-wise), that's who I am arguing with.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Statue lives don’t matter 

[bad_teammate 13481]

But what if I think a bunch of SF libs actually want an authoritarian racist state!?!?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13708]

2 hours ago, Xian said:

The grant statute legit pisses me off 

That actually pisses you off? I see red when seeing cops murder someone on the street not some statue that doesn’t matter.

besides Ulysses isn’t even the best Grant.  Cary, Bud and Lou have him beat.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[bad_teammate 13481]

9 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

These are american citizens taking down a symbol against slavery on American soil, not by vote or popular consensus, but by mob rule representing a minority opinion.  I'm an American citizen who lives on american soil.  I don't like vandalism of monuments against slavery by mobs caught up in a mindless frenzy anywhere in the US.  If conservatives took down the exact same statue, there would be massive public outrage.  Since it is your fellow leftists, you wonder why anyone should care - just look the other way as their motives were pure, even if they don't know history.  

Do you think that the people who took down the statue viewed it as "a symbol against slavery"?

Answer honestly.

Quote

Yes, historical ignorance and "overexuberance" of mindless mobs is the crime.  People do not like mindless shit for brains imbeciles vandalizing what they do not understand.  

Are you OK with all of the statue removals that involved slaveholders?

It really seems like there's been a lot of resentful silence just waiting for an excuse to explode and the Grant statue is the permission people need to express their anger. The level of invective you obviously feel towards the individuals involved is a lot deeper than just the Grant statue.

A triggered snowflake, if you will.

[bad_teammate 13481]

As ignorant as they may be, the mobs removing statues show greater historical/symbolic awareness than the groups who erected the statues in the first place.