Why are we so upset about this NOW?

[Wally Fairway 5590]

NOW - because:
a) changes haven't happened since MLK, so the clock has been ticking
b) COVID - people are tired of being confined
c) this one is different - video 8+ minutes, casual manor of murderer and nonchalance of other onlooking officers
d) escalation of protests due to threat of dominant response by POTUS (seems like telling them to "stay in your lane")
e) ever expanding reach of social media

[XYZ 2154]

a) straw that broke the camel’s back

b) pandemic has everyone on edge

[Brisketexan 105457]

15 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Discussed this recently and I essentially had the same question. Why are so many people that have been unreceptive to the same massage all of a sudden changing their minds after what was, sadly, nothing new?

My best theory kind of goes along with yours. The country was already on edge. Half the country is at home and probably way more plugged into the news than normal. The video was like ten minutes long and there is just zero room for the typical ways people try to explain this sort of thing away. Kind of a perfect storm in that regard. I think part of it is people just looking to band together. Part of it could be the polarized political climate.

I'm not sure there is one answer. But white/ corporate America's responses have definitely thrown me for a loop.

I'll get back to this thread (it's an interesting one), but there was a really good piece I read in the past few days that compared today to some previous circumstances in 1968 and 1979, when multiple factors in rapid succession created significant social upheaval.

You have a society (globally, due to the pandemic) that is ripe for fracture and action.  Race and police issues have been building, in rapid succession, until the pot didn't just boil over, it blew up.  Sometimes, the stage is just set the right way for shit to go down.

A fuckup shooting an archduke in Sarajevo triggered a world war.  Sometimes, the stage is just set.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Nicole44 22079]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'll get back to this thread (it's an interesting one), but there was a really good piece I read in the past few days that compared today to some previous circumstances in 1968 and 1979, when multiple factors in rapid succession created significant social upheaval.

You have a society (globally, due to the pandemic) that is ripe for fracture and action.  Race and police issues have been building, in rapid succession, until the pot didn't just boil over, it blew up.  Sometimes, the stage is just set the right way for shit to go down.

A fuckup shooting an archduke in Sarajevo triggered a world war.  Sometimes, the stage is just set.

Or there are a small fraction of people profiting off of this. Does no one Y2K? Depending on what side people are on I Guess they are ok with people profiting from destruction. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it’s pretty clear certain groups and individuals profit. You know who won’t ever—-hint hint hint the poor and middle class. 

[Brisketexan 105457]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Or there are a small fraction of people profiting off of this. Does no one Y2K? Depending on what side people are on I Guess they are ok with people profiting from destruction. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it’s pretty clear certain groups and individuals profit. You know who won’t ever—-hint hint hint the poor and middle class. 

I don't argue with any assertions of profiteering -- it's often quite huge.  But I'll suggest that profiteering is almost always opportunism, with connected people seeing a chance and taking it.  Orchestrated conspiracies to create a crisis so that one can profiteer just really aren't much of a thing.

And yes....at the very least, the material profit in the near term ain't going to the poor and middle class.

[Nicole44 22079]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't argue with any assertions of profiteering -- it's often quite huge.  But I'll suggest that profiteering is almost always opportunism, with connected people seeing a chance and taking it.  Orchestrated conspiracies to create a crisis so that one can profiteer just really aren't much of a thing.

And yes....at the very least, the material profit in the near term ain't going to the poor and middle class.

In the near term? That’s where you lost me. The United States is never going socialist and even if it did (in our lifetime), do you truly believe that government will give the poor and middle class a helping hand? And assuming it did, you’d have absolute faith in the government that they’d never fuck you over? 

I’m not picking on you. I genuinely enjoy (mostly) reading your posts but no other country has the same dynamic the US has and the countries that do have a “successful”model (if you want to call it that) are non-melting pot types. 

[Brisketexan 105457]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

In the near term? That’s where you lost me. The United States is never going socialist and even if it did (in our lifetime), do you truly believe that government will give the poor and middle class a helping hand? And assuming it did, you’d have absolute faith in the government that they’d never fuck you over? 

I’m not picking on you. I genuinely enjoy (mostly) reading your posts but no other country has the same dynamic the US has and the countries that do have a “successful”model (if you want to call it that) are non-melting pot types. 

All I'm saying is that never say never.  There is a large push for some long-term change.  I'm not optimistic, but I can't rule it out.  It will take time, though.  Thus, the "near term."  Just didn't want to categorically rule it out.

[Pancho 45076]

2 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

NOW - because:
a) changes haven't happened since MLK, so the clock has been ticking
b) COVID - people are tired of being confined
c) this one is different - video 8+ minutes, casual manor of murderer and nonchalance of other onlooking officers
d) escalation of protests due to threat of dominant response by POTUS (seems like telling them to "stay in your lane")
e) ever expanding reach of social media

All of this combined with Trump, Trump's language over the last 3.5 years, and what seemed like back to back to back killings in such a short period of time in Arbery, Taylor, and Floyd. 

[Iceman 2726]

36 minutes ago, Pancho said:

All of this combined with Trump, Trump's language over the last 3.5 years, and what seemed like back to back to back killings in such a short period of time in Arbery, Taylor, and Floyd. 

I don’t understand the connection between the president and miscarriage of justice at local levels. If we had not seen them until three years ago, I could understand it. We have had plenty of politicians with whom I disagreed in power. My safety and rights as a citizen never felt threatened.

you’re entitled to your opinion,  but I’m also going to roll my eyes at the notion that it’s all because of Trump. It is way the hell bigger than one man. One man damn sure doesn’t have the ability to solve this.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Iceman

[Pancho 45076]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

I don’t understand the connection between the president and miscarriage of justice at local levels. If we had not seen them until three years ago, I could understand it. We have had plenty of politicians with whom I disagreed in power. My safety and rights as a citizen never felt threatened.

you’re entitled to your opinion,  but I’m also going to roll my eyes at the notion that it’s all because of Trump. It is way the hell bigger than one man. One man damn sure doesn’t have the ability to solve this.

 

Did you read my post? Because at no point did I say it's "all because off Trump."

[Iceman 2726]

11 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Did you read my post? Because at no point did I say it's "all because off Trump."

Yes I read it. Sorry if I overreacted.  I just struggle with there being 480 other factors and decades of strife and any quality , but trump’s the reason that we’re reacting now. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Iceman

[Bat Guano 359]

We've been promised every time one of these incidents happens - and it's on the regular -  things are gonna change. Sometimes you see the people making these promises winking to the powerful interests, but they still pay lip service. And of course nothing changes; in fact, the casual, cold-blooded nonchalance of George Floyd's murderer - the sickening absolute certainty that he could get away with murdering the man in full view of the world via cell phone video - shows that the problem is getting worse, not better. Maybe people have learned that persistence is the key to effecting actual change.

Another factor is the local tie-ins; pretty much every city has at least one local similar incident. Austin has 2 recent ones, Michael Ramos and Javier Ambler. Plenty others in the past, of course. When people see the demonstrations in various cities, and see all the people killed by cops in just about every city, it becomes impossible to believe that they are just isolated incidents. It is truly an epidemic, and affects everybody, no matter where you live. 

[bullzak 422]

A shooting happens in an instant. Maybe its dark, everybody jumpy, and someone makes a bad call in a nano second. Not defending it but you can see how that would happen. 

This was a redneck cop intent on inflicting as much pain as possible on a person who was clearly no threat. No way anyone can relate to the need to keep your knee on this guys neck for damn near 10 minutes. 

Mix that with a widespread view that the police have been overly militarized and years of this kind of behavior and all the COVID frustration and here you are. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by bullzak

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Generations of misplaced priorities.  We value the wrong things, we don’t plan ahead, we ignore problems until they affect us, we don’t work together for the common good, we don’t value education/critical thinking as much as being told what we want to hear. We have normalized everything wrong in our society in order to avoid responsibility and prevent any kind of meaningful change.  

[gmr548 16617]

Yes I read it. Sorry if I overreacted.  I just struggle with there being 480 other factors and decades of strife and any quality , but trump’s the reason that we’re reacting now. 

He went out of the way to fan the flames and he's the most polarizing figure in this country, bar none. Love him or hate him, everyone has a reaction to what he says or does. Ex: the bible photo op thing. Nothing is all because of one person but certainly his actions have contributed.

[Nicole44 22079]

25 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Generations of misplaced priorities.  We value the wrong things, we don’t plan ahead, we ignore problems until they affect us, we don’t work together for the common good, we don’t value education/critical thinking as much as being told what we want to hear. We have normalized everything wrong in our society in order to avoid responsibility and prevent any kind of meaningful change.  

Well said. Because that is the human experience—individually and collectively.  What amazes me the most is that people still think if they have the “right” humans in government somehow the wrongs we have done to society will be rectified. It would be great if it actually worked. I’m old enough to recognize it never will. 

[immortal13 4059]

46 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I don’t understand the connection between the president and miscarriage of justice at local levels. If we had not seen them until three years ago, I could understand it. We have had plenty of politicians with whom I disagreed in power. My safety and rights as a citizen never felt threatened.

you’re entitled to your opinion,  but I’m also going to roll my eyes at the notion that it’s all because of Trump. It is way the hell bigger than one man. One man damn sure doesn’t have the ability to solve this.

Do you even narrative, bro

[SHOOTER12 8836]

4 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Do you even narrative, bro

Narrator: whatever do you mean?

[Guest Lobo]

Slightly touched on above (that's what she said), but I think one other massively mitigating factor was literally just days before the Floyd murder/protests, we have asshole white people storming state capitols armed to the teeth to complain about opening up Golden Corrals and massage parlors.  Reopening/Rebooting/Reinvigorating our Economy is just as critical as Black Lives Matter, but the way it was conducted was juvenile and disgraceful.  Having that top of mind while watching police murder U.S. citizens was a big factor as well, IMHO.  

[G650 14278]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

Yes I read it. Sorry if I overreacted.  I just struggle with there being 480 other factors and decades of strife and any quality , but trump’s the reason that we’re reacting now. 

Any quality eh?

 

Trump is not the only reason by far, but he is a huge reason. If you don't think the leader of the country literally saying when the looting starts the shooting starts hasn't fucking jolted and petrified a massive swath of this country you are really in la la land.

Edited June 10, 2020 by G650

[Iceman 2726]

7 minutes ago, G650 said:

Any quality eh?

 

Trump is not the only reason by far, but he is a huge reason. If you don't think the leader of the country literally saying when the looting starts the shooting starts hasn't fucking jolted and petrified a massive swath of this country you are really in la la land.

Voice text.   Inequality 

[immortal13 4059]

57 minutes ago, G650 said:

Any quality eh?

 

Trump is not the only reason by far, but he is a huge reason. If you don't think the leader of the country literally saying when the looting starts the shooting starts hasn't fucking jolted and petrified a massive swath of this country you are really in la la land.

Yuge even?

[Js1 85615]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

All I'm saying is that never say never.  There is a large push for some long-term change.  I'm not optimistic, but I can't rule it out.  It will take time, though.  Thus, the "near term."  Just didn't want to categorically rule it out.

Oh please. A bunch of elementary school kids got gunned down in class and nothing really changed. It got worse 

[Lhorn 4970]

11 hours ago, Iceman said:

I don’t understand the connection between the president and miscarriage of justice at local levels. If we had not seen them until three years ago, I could understand it. We have had plenty of politicians with whom I disagreed in power. My safety and rights as a citizen never felt threatened.

you’re entitled to your opinion,  but I’m also going to roll my eyes at the notion that it’s all because of Trump. It is way the hell bigger than one man. One man damn sure doesn’t have the ability to solve this.

I agree with this.  There has always been that part of our political culture, but maybe more so over the last 10-20 years that the party not in the White House lays blame for anything bad during those 4 years on the President.  It happened so much during Obama years, that it was a running joke and it's happening now.  

I've always believed in the adage that national politics gets the attention but what affects our lives just as much or more so on a day to day basis is state and local leadership.  I think that holds true for things like education, roads, etc and I think this problem with accountability in the police departments qualifies too.  Some places are just poorly run for generations, yet no one locally is held accountable.  

 

With regards to why this is different, I'll agree with those who said that this was a guy in handcuffs on the ground who posed zero real threat.  It's astoundingly reprehensible.  The Mike Brown killing for all the attention it garnered was far less cut and dry.   

[Iceman 2726]

8 hours ago, Js1 said:

Oh please. A bunch of elementary school kids got gunned down in class and nothing really changed. It got worse 

That's because a metric shit ton of folks want to blame the handcuffs if it were the Floyd case.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Just a perfect, yet infuriating video that someone edited and put on reddit. 

[Guest Lobo]

I've been seeing some really hyperbolic and inflammatory anti-police shit in the last two weeks (and I'm 100% BLM), but that idiotic NYPD chief has to be most tone deaf mother fucker since Marlee Matlin released "Baroque Ballads in E-Minor"    He was right in calling our Chauvin as a murderer, then he spends the next twenty minutes sounding like the class bully defending himself to the assistant vice principal. 

I'm beating a dead horse but the simplest way to get to these guys is to post signs outside police HQ's that simply read, "Cowards Work Here"  The only word that gets their hearts fluttering more than "pension" or "Black" or "overtime" is COWARD.  It sends them into an absolute frenzy.  They're obviously fine with being called racist, murderers, thugs, shitheads, morons, microdicks.  But I promise you, call them a "Coward" to their face and they absolutely freak the fuck out.  They are literally hardwired to lose their fucking minds.  And it's fun as hell to watch.  Provided you're not standing near them and darker than Edgar Winter.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by Lobo

[hayden_horn 11365]

i agree with a lot of what's been said, but i keep coming down to a single factor: it's the video.

we knew ray rice slugged his lady. roger goodell knew it from the video of him carrying his borderline comatose lady out of the elevator.

but when we got clear video of his sudden and vicious punch to her face, all of a sudden it was time for suspension and condemnation.

there are certainly other factors, but the video is the key element. we didn't have video of that couple executed in cold blood in houston. we didn't have video of the michael ramos shooting. we never really even heard about javier ambler until recently, and that was FUCKING TAPED BY A PROFESSIONAL CAMERA CREW LAST FUCKING YEAR.

this is why police body cams are so critical. 

[Guest Lobo]

7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

this is why police body cams are so critical. 

Totally agree. 

Armored Vehicles, military-grade assault weapons, JSOC-level comms systems, duty vests, night vision goggles, airborne-grade helmets, ammunition rounds-------all top of the line, Pentagon level shit, maintained and upgraded with a year-over-year line item budget increases guaranteed with a full compliment of contract technicians and consultants to keep them looking and acting like they were on the front line against ISIS.

But police body-cams?  Lowest bidder from Vietnam with once a year maintenance provided by Dwayne, the chief's nephew home for the summer from Texas A&M.