Roof replacement / insurance questions

[Guest]

Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552

Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

[CooterBrown 18003]

“A hard fucking job”.

You answered your own question on why it costs so much.

You forgot disposal, insurance, payroll expenses, etc.

[milkman 428]

Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552
Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

So let me get this straight. You are bitchin about how much this is going to cost when all you are out is the deductible?

[Guest]

15 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

“A hard fucking job”.

You answered your own question on why it costs so much.

You forgot disposal, insurance, payroll expenses, etc.

Did I?

20 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Can y'all in the business help me understand the economics of roofing? I have some bids in around $16,000 for a replacement. I've priced out materials. Comes to about $5,000. Let's call it $6,000 just to give plenty of leeway.

I've been told the job can be done in a day. Then say it's a crew of eight guys making $30 an hour for a 10-hour day. That's $2,400 in labor. So that comes out to around $8,500 in materials and labor, leaving about $7,500.

Then there's all sorts of things like insurance, transportation, offices, hauling away debris, etc. No idea what the "other" would be, but will assume $2,000 to be generous. 

Is there really a $5,500 profit margin on a roof? 

 

No, I didn't.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10229]

11 hours ago, milkman said:

So let me get this straight. You are bitchin about how much this is going to cost when all you are out is the deductible?

as someone whose home insurance (and deductible amount) has doubled in a couple years time, I for one appreciate anyone trying to keep that from happening again

[Jkwellborn 6690]

as someone whose home insurance (and deductible amount) has doubled in a couple years time, I for one appreciate anyone trying to keep that from happening again

A few people paying a little more on a roof than they think isn’t what has made insurance go up a bunch.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10229]

20 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

A few people paying a little more on a roof than they think isn’t what has made insurance go up a bunch.

sure about that?

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/price-of-paradise/roof-repair-scams-push-florida-insurers

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

33 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

sure about that?

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/price-of-paradise/roof-repair-scams-push-florida-insurers

 

Florida is always going to be the extreme example for any sort of insurance fraud.  They invented the sport and have won the last 40 national championships.  

[Clintonaldo 2572]

6 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

A few people paying a little more on a roof than they think isn’t what has made insurance go up a bunch.

You are right. It was more than a few. 

[deadshank 24652]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:35 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552

Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

I ran some numbers and I speculated your roof (any oddities or special features disclaimed) should cost around $13K to remove and install new with a decent 20-25% profit over cost to product. 

If you're getting $16K quotes for a straight up roof replacement (no insurance claim) then those quotes are a bit pricey.

YMMV.

[Skipper 6128]

Seems like codifying the whole "roofers can't pay any portion of deductible" eliminated any competition from a pricing perspective.  Now the only competition is getting the job. They will all take as much profit as the insurers allow.  Would love to learn how that's wrong because it does seem like we're all paying for market inefficiencies. 

[deadshank 24652]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Seems like codifying the whole "roofers can't pay any portion of deductible" eliminated any competition from a pricing perspective.  Now the only competition is getting the job. They will all take as much profit as the insurers allow.  Would love to learn how that's wrong because it does seem like we're all paying for market inefficiencies. 

This topic is very difficult with a lot of stuff at work.

A big problem is a significant amount of money is tied into a piece of real estate and a secured lender.   Get a $50K check from IC to install a new roof?  Great!  Now HO is gonna try to get the roof done as inexpensively as possible and pocket the difference.  "I'm gonna make money off this deal, too" says HO

Who goes first?  HO gets three bids and presents to IC.  Are all 3 bids fair bids or are they puffed and overpriced?  IC agrees to pay and HO then takes the 4th low-ball contractor hidden in his pocket.  IC don't like  that a bit.

Now IC tries to control the pay outs (Xactimate software) and set the market price.  Roofers whine saying it's not enough money so they cut corners to increase margins or IC overpays and HO says "hey, that's a lot of money for my roof! The roofer is making too much and driving around in a brand new jacked up F250 and I'm paying for it through increased premiums!  Furk everything!!!"

I hate the insurance/ storm chasing game.  Most of what we do is high-end, custom new construction.  Storm / insurance work if chock full of shit-on-a-stick "roofers" that don't know the first thing about roofing but completely understand how to get between you and your insurance check.

[C-Man 27188]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:35 PM, deadshank said:

This topic is very difficult with a lot of stuff at work.

A big problem is a significant amount of money is tied into a piece of real estate and a secured lender.   Get a $50K check from IC to install a new roof?  Great!  Now HO is gonna try to get the roof done as inexpensively as possible and pocket the difference.  "I'm gonna make money off this deal, too" says HO

Who goes first?  HO gets three bids and presents to IC.  Are all 3 bids fair bids or are they puffed and overpriced?  IC agrees to pay and HO then takes the 4th low-ball contractor hidden in his pocket.  IC don't like  that a bit.

Now IC tries to control the pay outs (Xactimate software) and set the market price.  Roofers whine saying it's not enough money so they cut corners to increase margins or IC overpays and HO says "hey, that's a lot of money for my roof! The roofer is making too much and driving around in a brand new jacked up F250 and I'm paying for it through increased premiums!  Furk everything!!!"

I hate the insurance/ storm chasing game.  Most of what we do is high-end, custom new construction.  Storm / insurance work if chock full of shit-on-a-stick "roofers" that don't know the first thing about roofing but completely understand how to get between you and your insurance check.

It would help a lot of if the state of Texas would get involved and help regulate the roofing business in Texas. As of now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely zero regulation. You and I could print up biz cards saying deadshank & C-Man roofing tomorrow and start knocking on doors in neighborhoods after a big hail storm, try and repair some roofs, pocket some insurance money and be gone like a fart in the wind in six months with no recourse whatsoever.

[deadshank 24652]

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

It would help a lot of if the state of Texas would get involved and help regulate the roofing business in Texas. As of now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely zero regulation. You and I could print up biz cards saying deadshank & C-Man roofing tomorrow and start knocking on doors in neighborhoods after a big hail storm, try and repair some roofs, pocket some insurance money and be gone like a fart in the wind in six months with no recourse whatsoever.

I agree / I disagree.   Barriers to entry seems advantageous through less competition / higher prices (“the trade off for consumer protection”…nudge nudge wink wink); however, now I’d be beholden to some government board twit that washed out of the industry or never was in it his/herself.

Of the major trades, only 3 require a license in the state of Texas.  Electricians, plumbers and HVAC contractors.   Significant apprenticeship programs are required to advance to journeyman and then to master license holder. 

There are no barriers to entry in roofing.   The Roofing Contractors Association of Texas has, in the past, campaigned for licensing.  Many large RCs have advocated for licensing.  
 

The  blowback and ultimate defeat of the latest idea for something as toothless as registration (not even licensing) came from Frank Fuentes of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a few state reps and a guy that relied the Independent Contractors of TX (whoever they are).

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:13 PM, deadshank said:

This has come up in trial.  I do some expert witness work for some insurance defense attorneys when roof replacement and insurance coverage  is the crux of the case.  On more than one occasion, dummy storm chaser roofing contractor admitted while on the stand that they "charge more" if insurance funds are available when compared to regular, non-insurance money funded roof replacements.  

When asked why they did this they replied, "uh, it's insurance money."

The judges and juries were not pleased with that answer.

So what's the best move here and why not listen to the guys knocking on our door for a quote. We got hail and need a new roof and siding. The adjuster gave us a contractor name who quoted everything about the same price as insurance is giving us.

I don't want to pocket any money, but this seems like a bad way for us to go about getting it fixed. Should I get multiple quotes and compare?

I sent @ROFL BOX a PM, but he might think I'm trying to bum a ride from him again and won't answer. 

[deadshank 24652]

1 hour ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

So what's the best move here and why not listen to the guys knocking on our door for a quote. We got hail and need a new roof and siding. The adjuster gave us a contractor name who quoted everything about the same price as insurance is giving us.

I don't want to pocket any money, but this seems like a bad way for us to go about getting it fixed. Should I get multiple quotes and compare?

I sent @ROFL BOX a PM, but he might think I'm trying to bum a ride from him again and won't answer. 

There’s nothing wrong with using the guys knocking on the doors.  Many won’t be very good roofers; however, they will be extremely good at the storm-chasing / insurance claim business.   Some can do both.  The real jabrones just want to maximize the claim amount and minimize what you get and enjoy the largest margin they can achieve. 
 

Getting quotes for “low bids” is a waste of time.   The IC will pay what it pays.  You need to get the most roof and roof upgrades out of the roofing contractor for what the IC is paying.  
Polish off your reverse Uno card and get what you can.  

All the rest is in the details.  Are they really a roofing contractor or just a poser that will be doing something else after the rush is over?  
 

Do they have a real GLI policy with roofing operation classification and includes products and completed operations? (This point is huge.  You’d  be shocked to know how many roofing contractors aren’t classified for roofing operations).

Does their contract try to limit a damages claim to the amount of the contract?

Are they really a local company or do they have only have an established local phone number in multiple cities across the country and it goes hot when a hailstorm blows through and they’re on alert?

 

you can PM me if you have other questions.  

[NoName 16351]

assuming this is probably the best/most recently active thread to post in. located in the hill country west of Austin (78624)

we have had a bunch of hail over the last few months, have the door to door guys out and let one guy take a quick glance at the roof a couple of weeks ago and he thought then it was a slam dunk replacement for both roof and gutters but am NOT tied to him moving forward, have had 5+ roofs replaced in my areas (say a .25 mile radius from my house) in the last 6-12 months if that matters and fully expect to have some more done in the next 30 days based on shingles getting dropped off in driveways.

all this to say, we had a big storm last night that blew 5 shingles off my roof and looks like may have some more off up at the ridgeline. at 515 it was 100 degrees with 5 MPH winds, 535 was 98 with 20 MPH winds up to 28 MPH gust and at 555 it was down to 77 with 45 MPH wins and 59 MPH gust.

at this point the prudent thing is to open up a claim with my insurance company (AMICA), right? i assume they will send out an adjuster and get the ball rolling. honestly, with all the hail we have had over the last 3 months should have had it replaced before now. BUT what is the best process forward from there if they say we need a replacement?

roof has been around for a while at this point. additionally, every house around us that has been replaced has added ridge vents or has added ridge vents at some point recently so guessing we should probably do that as well? it's pretty much the most basic roof ever. couple of penetrations for bathroom fan vents, just 2 halfs of a square. that's it. image link: https://picallow.com/roof-2/

appreciate any help/information you all can give me! i'll go ahead and @deadshank and @ROFL BOX just in case

Edited June 22, 2023 by NoName

[deadshank 24652]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

assuming this is probably the best/most recently active thread to post in. located in the hill country west of Austin (78624)

we have had a bunch of hail over the last few months, have the door to door guys out and let one guy take a quick glance at the roof a couple of weeks ago and he thought then it was a slam dunk replacement for both roof and gutters but am NOT tied to him moving forward, have had 5+ roofs replaced in my areas (say a .25 mile radius from my house) in the last 6-12 months if that matters and fully expect to have some more done in the next 30 days based on shingles getting dropped off in driveways.

all this to say, we had a big storm last night that blew 5 shingles off my roof and looks like may have some more off up at the ridgeline. at 515 it was 100 degrees with 5 MPH winds, 535 was 98 with 20 MPH winds up to 28 MPH gust and at 555 it was down to 77 with 45 MPH wins and 59 MPH gust.

at this point the prudent thing is to open up a claim with my insurance company (AMICA), right? i assume they will send out an adjuster and get the ball rolling. honestly, with all the hail we have had over the last 3 months should have had it replaced before now. BUT what is the best process forward from there if they say we need a replacement?

roof has been around for a while at this point. additionally, every house around us that has been replaced has added ridge vents or has added ridge vents at some point recently so guessing we should probably do that as well? it's pretty much the most basic roof ever. couple of penetrations for bathroom fan vents, just 2 halfs of a square. that's it. image link: https://picallow.com/roof-2/

appreciate any help/information you all can give me! i'll go ahead and @deadshank and @ROFL BOX just in case

Seems you should call Amica and make a claim.   

[NoName 16351]

13 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Seems you should call Amica and make a claim.   

already done. will return once i have more information, may have jumped the gun a little here - sorry.

[HRSchenker 2268]

Just hit 2 months with my current leak. First roofer wasn't interested in anything less than total roof replacement, second roofer re-did some flashing but the leak is still there and he's terrible with follow up, and third roofer told me they don't do repairs under $1,000. My insurance guy quoted me $1300 for roof repair and drywall repair/replacement. Now I gotta find roofer number four. Thank god the leak is only in the garage. If this was in the bedroom or living room I'd imagine the only way to get a roofer to take it seriously is to offer a cash bonus for successfully completion. 

[deadshank 24652]

9 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Just hit 2 months with my current leak. First roofer wasn't interested in anything less than total roof replacement, second roofer re-did some flashing but the leak is still there and he's terrible with follow up, and third roofer told me they don't do repairs under $1,000. My insurance guy quoted me $1300 for roof repair and drywall repair/replacement. Now I gotta find roofer number four. Thank god the leak is only in the garage. If this was in the bedroom or living room I'd imagine the only way to get a roofer to take it seriously is to offer a cash bonus for successfully completion. 

That's the difference between storm chasers and real roofing contractors.

[HRSchenker 2268]

1 minute ago, deadshank said:

That's the difference between storm chasers and real roofing contractors.

Well I guess I need to find a storm chaser then. Are roof contractors really this flakey? 

[deadshank 24652]

1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

Well I guess I need to find a storm chaser then. Are roof contractors really this flakey? 

Most RCs are interested in replacements only because they have no full-time people that actually do the work as they subcontract all the work.  Storm chasers usually have zero interest in repairs for that reason.  
 

A real roofing contractor will do repairs, re-roof a dog house or The White House.  
 

We’ve done several small repairs for Surlers.   It’s the missionary work we must do for prospective work.  
 

Sorry you’re in a jam. 

[C-Man 27188]

3 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Just hit 2 months with my current leak. First roofer wasn't interested in anything less than total roof replacement, second roofer re-did some flashing but the leak is still there and he's terrible with follow up, and third roofer told me they don't do repairs under $1,000. My insurance guy quoted me $1300 for roof repair and drywall repair/replacement. Now I gotta find roofer number four. Thank god the leak is only in the garage. If this was in the bedroom or living room I'd imagine the only way to get a roofer to take it seriously is to offer a cash bonus for successfully completion. 

I wouldn't even think of filing a claim for something that small.

Also, I would never in a million years work with a roofer who knocked on my door following a storm. Let them get up on the roof if you want to take a look but commit to nothing. Call somebody at an established roofing company in your area or use somebody a good friend of yours did. You want them to be around in the event of the job is done poorly. There's a much better chance of that happening with the door-knockers than that company that's been in business for 20 or more years. But that's just me.

And, unless there's pretty clear and obvious serious damage, I'd recommend calling a roof guy to come out and look before talking to the insurance company. If you call the carrier and they come out and say there's not hail damage or it's wear-and-tear or something that isn't covered, you've got a $0 pay claim that is on your record. At a minimum, you will likely need to explain what happened any time you go shopping for new insurance.

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

I guess this could be a dumb question, but do legitimate local roofing companies not send out people to neighborhoods to check for damage after storms?  Seems like that would be a logical and fruitful practice.  Or are there just too many bad apples that they don't want to be associated with it?

[HRSchenker 2268]

48 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I wouldn't even think of filing a claim for something that small.

Also, I would never in a million years work with a roofer who knocked on my door following a storm. Let them get up on the roof if you want to take a look but commit to nothing. Call somebody at an established roofing company in your area or use somebody a good friend of yours did. You want them to be around in the event of the job is done poorly. There's a much better chance of that happening with the door-knockers than that company that's been in business for 20 or more years. But that's just me.

And, unless there's pretty clear and obvious serious damage, I'd recommend calling a roof guy to come out and look before talking to the insurance company. If you call the carrier and they come out and say there's not hail damage or it's wear-and-tear or something that isn't covered, you've got a $0 pay claim that is on your record. At a minimum, you will likely need to explain what happened any time you go shopping for new insurance.

At this point I just want the leak fixed and it might take until the end of the year at my current pace. First I have to get the leak fixed and then I need to repair and replace the dry wall. Can't do any drywall work until I know the leak is gone. The only reason I'm so obsessed with this is because I want to sell the property. Of course the day we decide to part with it is the day I find the leak. 

This is the damage but I took this photo a month ago. It's now much worse and continues to get worse as it rains.

[C-Man 27188]

1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

At this point I just want the leak fixed and it might take until the end of the year at my current pace. First I have to get the leak fixed and then I need to repair and replace the dry wall. Can't do any drywall work until I know the leak is gone. The only reason I'm so obsessed with this is because I want to sell the property. Of course the day we decide to part with it is the day I find the leak. 

This is the damage but I took this photo a month ago. It's now much worse and continues to get worse as it rains.

Yeah, I get it. I'd hate for a carrier to tell you there's no coverage because you failed to take appropriate steps to keep the damage from getting worse. I'm not saying you are, quite the opposite it appears, but make sure you save communications in the event the carrier pushes back if you file a claim.

[C-Man 27188]

2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I guess this could be a dumb question, but do legitimate local roofing companies not send out people to neighborhoods to check for damage after storms?  Seems like that would be a logical and fruitful practice.  Or are there just too many bad apples that they don't want to be associated with it?

I refer people to two companies personally in the DFW area -- Elite Roofing and Lon Smith Roofing. I know both to be extremely ethical and high quality. Lon Smith has been around forever and I know the owner of Elite personally. Neither knocks on doors in neighborhoods after big hail storms. They're plenty busy enough based on reputation/track record. Some of those going through neighborhoods might be great and reputable. Many are not. I would not roll the dice on something like getting a new roof. Find the best company you can find is my advice.

[deadshank 24652]

12 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I guess this could be a dumb question, but do legitimate local roofing companies not send out people to neighborhoods to check for damage after storms?  Seems like that would be a logical and fruitful practice.  Or are there just too many bad apples that they don't want to be associated with it?

Some do.  Some don’t.  Many established RCs will send new hires out so they can hone their sales techniques while bringing in business.   There is nothing wrong with that approach.

 

[Antidean 200]

Had GC I have used previously come out this morning and inspect roof for hail damage. Never got on the roof but tells me it needs replaced.

Can you really tell it needs replaced without getting up there? We did get some golf ball size hail last week but from my untrained eye the roof looks ok.

[NoName 16351]

adjuster came by today, got to finish writing the estimate but he said it was a clear replace the roof situation - a "slam dunk"

said the back half had been replaced at one point but not the front half (much older) - not a typical situation there.

 

[Jkwellborn 6690]

Had GC I have used previously come out this morning and inspect roof for hail damage. Never got on the roof but tells me it needs replaced.
Can you really tell it needs replaced without getting up there? We did get some golf ball size hail last week but from my untrained eye the roof looks ok.

He might have just walked around the gutter downspouts if you have them. Lots of granules get knocked off by that. He might have seen something he recognized. He might be full of shit.

[NoName 16351]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:17 AM, NoName said:

assuming this is probably the best/most recently active thread to post in. located in the hill country west of Austin (78624)

we have had a bunch of hail over the last few months, have the door to door guys out and let one guy take a quick glance at the roof a couple of weeks ago and he thought then it was a slam dunk replacement for both roof and gutters but am NOT tied to him moving forward, have had 5+ roofs replaced in my areas (say a .25 mile radius from my house) in the last 6-12 months if that matters and fully expect to have some more done in the next 30 days based on shingles getting dropped off in driveways.

all this to say, we had a big storm last night that blew 5 shingles off my roof and looks like may have some more off up at the ridgeline. at 515 it was 100 degrees with 5 MPH winds, 535 was 98 with 20 MPH winds up to 28 MPH gust and at 555 it was down to 77 with 45 MPH wins and 59 MPH gust.

at this point the prudent thing is to open up a claim with my insurance company (AMICA), right? i assume they will send out an adjuster and get the ball rolling. honestly, with all the hail we have had over the last 3 months should have had it replaced before now. BUT what is the best process forward from there if they say we need a replacement?

roof has been around for a while at this point. additionally, every house around us that has been replaced has added ridge vents or has added ridge vents at some point recently so guessing we should probably do that as well? it's pretty much the most basic roof ever. couple of penetrations for bathroom fan vents, just 2 halfs of a square. that's it. image link: https://picallow.com/roof-2/

appreciate any help/information you all can give me! i'll go ahead and @deadshank and @ROFL BOX just in case

ok, finally re-starting this process. strep burning it's way through the family and just haven't jumped on it the way i should have.

got the claim information from insurance. got a quote from a non-storm chaser roofing company that comes pretty highly recommended from folks we know and trust that have used them locally and know their work.

any suggestions or interest in helping at all? i have all the documents together (zip is 78624 if that makes a difference)

trying to think of what can be added that would help add some color...

• basic roof, roof surface area is ~3150', and about 31.5 squares.
• house was built in the 80s and this summer it is noticeably hotter than last with regard to the roof and lack of ridge vents / roof vents of any kind. every house around us that has had their roof replaced in the last ~36 months has had roof vents put in when it was replaced, with the exception of our tightwad back door neighbor. are ridge vents still the best practice from an efficiency standpoint?
• happy to share quote information, they are recommending a "GAF timberline HD lifetime architectural shingle" and GAF cobra continuous ridge vent

happy to take any information that you all have or would share, just want to make sure we make the right, well informed decision.

[Jkwellborn 6690]

The shingle manufacturer will most likely require ridge vent to get the warranty. Go ahead and do that regardless of what else you do.

[Nueces River Rat 5537]

On 5/29/2023 at 12:31 AM, C-Man said:

It would help a lot of if the state of Texas would get involved and help regulate the roofing business in Texas. As of now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely zero regulation. You and I could print up biz cards saying deadshank & C-Man roofing tomorrow and start knocking on doors in neighborhoods after a big hail storm, try and repair some roofs, pocket some insurance money and be gone like a fart in the wind in six months with no recourse whatsoever.

At least we are not Florida.   That state is a clusterfuck in regards to roofs and insurance.  

[BearSchlong 8083]

Just talked to one of my engineers who had his roof and car damaged by a hailstorm last week in north Austin.

Accordingly, roofing companies are coming out of the woodwork.

Any recommendations on roofing companies? Paging @rotflbox?

[deadshank 24652]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Just talked to one of my engineers who had his roof and car damaged by a hailstorm last week in north Austin.

Accordingly, roofing companies are coming out of the woodwork.

Any recommendations on roofing companies? Paging @rotflbox?

There are plenty of roofing contractors in Austin.  @ROFL BOX is one of them.  Your engineer amigo needs to find one that he is comfortable with.  If you can find a stable, local contractor that has been in the Austin area for a  good while then that would be the best bet.  

There will be lots of storm chasers showing up to get the business.  Most of them are meatheads.  Some aren't.  

Good luck.

[UTPhil2006 3805]

PM’d you the contact info of the guy we use and have referred out to a couple Surly people in the past 

[BottleRocket 644]

16 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Just talked to one of my engineers who had his roof and car damaged by a hailstorm last week in north Austin.

Accordingly, roofing companies are coming out of the woodwork.

Any recommendations on roofing companies? Paging @rotflbox?

 

Kidd Roofing in Austin is great and been around a long time.  I'm friends with the Owner.  https://www.kiddroof.com/

[C-Man 27188]

Get that insurance money for hail-damaged roofs while you can. Everybody is going to 2% min wind/hail deductibles and I doubt it goes back to 1% or flat deductibles any time soon, if ever. Gone will be the days of homeowners counting on a big hail-storm bringing a new roof courtesy of the insurance carriers. They might pay a little but nowhere near what they've paid in the past.

[UTPhil2006 3805]

So basically next hailstorm load up before the tide turns?

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Get that insurance money for hail-damaged roofs while you can. Everybody is going to 2% min wind/hail deductibles and I doubt it goes back to 1% or flat deductibles any time soon, if ever. Gone will be the days of homeowners counting on a big hail-storm bringing a new roof courtesy of the insurance carriers. They might pay a little but nowhere near what they've paid in the past.

Is the fire side of most carriers losing money again?

[C-Man 27188]

13 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Probably the single "self-made" wealthiest guy I know is someone who started a roofing company in Austin. Multimillionaire, took about a shade under a decade.

Will the new laws/rules prevent an American dream story like that from occurring easily?

Hard to say -- hail-damaged roofs aren't going away any time soon. However, if less insurance money is available maybe people are less likely to authorize work unless it's absolutely necessary. The whole roofing industry could use some consolidation and at least a modicum of official regulatory oversight. There's nothing stopping anybody on this board from starting a roofing company this afternoon. Nothing.

[C-Man 27188]

15 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Is the fire side of most carriers losing money again?

Specific to "fire" peril or more of a general sense like "property"? Safeco said auto is less of a money loser than homeowners at this point. Said it might be 2025 before they get to the rate they need to make money on homeowners again.

Edited October 6, 2023 by C-Man

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Specific to "fire" peril or more of a general sense like "property"? Safeco said auto is less of a money loser than homeowners at this point. Said it might be 2025 before they get to the rate they need to make money on homeowners again.

Yes, we always separated the 2 sides of the house between the Auto and Fire/Home side.  Auto was constantly bailing out the Fire side.  

[deadshank 24652]

22 hours ago, C-Man said:

Hard to say -- hail-damaged roofs aren't going away any time soon. However, if less insurance money is available maybe people are less likely to authorize work unless it's absolutely necessary. The whole roofing industry could use some consolidation and at least a modicum of official regulatory oversight. There's nothing stopping anybody on this board from starting a roofing company this afternoon. Nothing.

The whole roofing industry could use some consolidation?

Show the math.  
 

Official regulatory oversight?  You must first get past the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and its political allies in the Lege.  

[ROFL BOX 6647]

Just talked to one of my engineers who had his roof and car damaged by a hailstorm last week in north Austin.

Accordingly, roofing companies are coming out of the woodwork.

Any recommendations on roofing companies? Paging @rotflbox?

PM sent.

[C-Man 27188]

Here's a new one to me. We received notice from Cincinnati Insurance Company that they were denying a hail damage claim to an attorney client here in Dallas. We were unaware a claim had been filed by him or on his behalf. Client has a nice slate roof and Cincinnati's adjustor sent photos clearly showing no damage. There is some algae growth in some places but no damage as per Cincinnati. (Bear in mind Cincy is one of our high net worth carriers -- this isn't Allstate or Farmers or some other middle-market shit carrier.)

My account manager for this account spoke with the client and it sounds like he thought he had roof damage and called a roofer. (I'm not sure if the roofer reached out initially or if our client called him first.) Well, the roofer sent up a drone to inspect the roof and said, yes, you've got damage. My client said he guessed he needed to file a claim. This roofer told him to hold off and advised him to hire an independent adjustor for some reason, which he did. The adjustor "confirmed" roof damage and either filed the claim with CIncy for our client or advised him to go ahead and do this. This is not how this is normally done as @ROFL BOX can probably confirm. You get the IA involved if (and only if) you dispute the carrier adjustor's findings and want a third-party inspection. I have another prospect going through the IA route on her roof with State Farm or Farmers roof claim and know based on what she told me the IA will "earn" 10% of whatever settlement they can get from the carrier.

I wonder if that's in play here. Unscrupulous roofer says you have hail damage then encourages you to hire his buddy who is an IA. Let's say this slate roof is $50K or more to replace (probably closer to $100K). Assuming damage is confirmed by carrier, roofer stands to make money on replacing the roof and the IA earns whatever his percentage is off the referral. Maybe I'm overthinking this but as a general rule, I don't trust "hail-chasing" roofing contractors in Texas until they prove otherwise. I have two or three terrific DFW roofers that I refer EVERYBODY who asks me to with zero exceptions.

[deadshank 24652]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

 

I wonder if that's in play here. Unscrupulous roofer says you have hail damage then encourages you to hire his buddy who is an IA. Let's say this slate roof is $50K or more to replace (probably closer to $100K). Assuming damage is confirmed by carrier, roofer stands to make money on replacing the roof and the IA earns whatever his percentage is off the referral. Maybe I'm overthinking this but as a general rule, I don't trust "hail-chasing" roofing contractors in Texas until they prove otherwise. I have two or three terrific DFW roofers that I refer EVERYBODY who asks me to with zero exceptions.

I've seen a bunch of "hail damaged" slate, clay tile and extruded concrete tile roofs over the years.  Very few of  them have incurred hail damage.  Most are repairable as not all of the slate or tiles get broken.  Comp shingle roofs are asphaltic and "soft."  If there is hail damage then the entire roof will most likely be damaged and require replacement.  Singling out 500 shingles out of 6000 for replacement is a fool's game.

To be fair, I've never seen a single slate roof that has been tested for impact resistance.  Most clay and extruded concrete roof tiles used in the Texas (and hail prone states) are tested per TDI's impact resistance methodology and have a rating.

Yes, unscrupulous storm chaser roofers will press this claim and involve IAs and refer HOs to plaintiff's attorneys.  They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  They don't do new construction slate or tile roofs; so they don't make money there.  Comp re-roofs are good but a volume game.  Large houses with expensive slate or tile roofs with lots of copper flashing techniques are whales when it comes to scopes of loss and potential payouts. 

The real problem for the HO is they will get a storm chaser under contract and that fool has no clue what he is doing with a product like slate or clay / concrete tile  and then the trail of tears begins.  

[C-Man 27188]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I've seen a bunch of "hail damaged" slate, clay tile and extruded concrete tile roofs over the years.  Very few of  them have incurred hail damage.  Most are repairable as not all of the slate or tiles get broken.  Comp shingle roofs are asphaltic and "soft."  If there is hail damage then the entire roof will most likely be damaged and require replacement.  Singling out 500 shingles out of 6000 for replacement is a fool's game.

To be fair, I've never seen a single slate roof that has been tested for impact resistance.  Most clay and extruded concrete roof tiles used in the Texas (and hail prone states) are tested per TDI's impact resistance methodology and have a rating.

Yes, unscrupulous storm chaser roofers will press this claim and involve IAs and refer HOs to plaintiff's attorneys.  They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  They don't do new construction slate or tile roofs; so they don't make money there.  Comp re-roofs are good but a volume game.  Large houses with expensive slate or tile roofs with lots of copper flashing techniques are whales when it comes to scopes of loss and potential payouts. 

The real problem for the HO is they will get a storm chaser under contract and that fool has no clue what he is doing with a product like slate or clay / concrete tile  and then the trail of tears begins.  

Interesting insight. Thanks.