How to remove old mortgage from title report

[Nice Guy Eddie 13731]

When I bought my house 11 years ago, the mortgage was with a smaller financial group that sold off the mortgage to Citi within a month or two. I subsequently refinanced with another bank. Now I'm looking at another refinance but have discovered that the original financial group from 2009 has an open mortgage listed on my title report.  I called them and they sent me a letter indicating that they sold my mortgage in 2009 but they don't seem to be taking any other action.

How do I get that officially off my title report? I don't want to be tracking this down in the future when selling.

[TwiceHorn 32079]

Did you get a release of lien when that mortgage was discharged?  It should have been recorded, but may not have been if they just sent it to you or your refinance mortgage company (maybe buried in closing paperwork).

Track that down and record it at the county clerk and that should solve the problems.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13731]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Did you get a release of lien when that mortgage was discharged?  It should have been recorded, but may not have been if they just sent it to you or your refinance mortgage company (maybe buried in closing paperwork).

Track that down and record it at the county clerk and that should solve the problems.

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.  Was that mortgage technically discharged or released  if it was just transferred to another lienholder? 

If that document cannot be found, what's my recourse?  I suppose I can ask them again to send me documents from 11 years ago but I don't know if I can force them.

[Gil Bang 26240]

Whoever insured the title of the original refinance is liable. Call that title company and let them know they have a problem.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22300]

They are probably bankrupted by now so you will have to file a claim with the state and in 10 or 15 years get 1 cent on the dollar.

 

That’s the way title insurance usually works

[TwiceHorn 32079]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.  Was that mortgage technically discharged or released  if it was just transferred to another lienholder? 

If that document cannot be found, what's my recourse?  I suppose I can ask them again to send me documents from 11 years ago but I don't know if I can force them.

The mortgage should have been discharged and released when it was refinanced.  And yeah, the title insurer should have those documents and if it doesn't it has a problem.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13731]

the title company still appears to exist. I sent them an email asking about how they can correct this.

[Gil Bang 26240]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the title company still appears to exist. I sent them an email asking about how they can correct this.

Once upon a time, I was an asset manager at a bank with a dogshit portfolio.  There were 6 or 7 of us, and we all knew our shit.   Experienced, smart people.

One day our in-house lawyer dropped by our bullpen, and said hey assholes, if anybody has a title insurance related issue, come to me.  Don't go to the title company yourselves, because they've got a roomful of lawyers who's job it is to avoid paying claims.  She said that the way the initial claim was made was really important.  At the time, I didn't ask questions, because hey, somebody else wants to do work that I no longer have to do. Yay.

Now, a couple of decades later, I'm on the phone with Title folks quite often.  I rarely have trouble with them, but I do this shit for a living.  

YMMV.  Twice is a lawyer, so I assume that if you needed a lawyer to deal with the title company, he'd say so.  

[TwiceHorn 32079]

2 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Once upon a time, I was an asset manager at a bank with a dogshit portfolio.  There were 6 or 7 of us, and we all knew our shit.   Experienced, smart people.

One day our in-house lawyer dropped by our bullpen, and said hey assholes, if anybody has a title insurance related issue, come to me.  Don't go to the title company yourselves, because they've got a roomful of lawyers who's job it is to avoid paying claims.  She said that the way the initial claim was made was really important.  At the time, I didn't ask questions, because hey, somebody else wants to do work that I no longer have to do. Yay.

Now, a couple of decades later, I'm on the phone with Title folks quite often.  I rarely have trouble with them, but I do this shit for a living.  

YMMV.  Twice is a lawyer, so I assume that if you needed a lawyer to deal with the title company, he'd say so.  

Not my practice area, so I defer to anyone who has practical information, like this.  Rings true as far as "deny, deny, deny" by Great Benefit TItle Insurance.

But, it seems like there are a couple of issues here.  The first is the existence of a lien release document that can be recorded, if it exists and its recording was just an oversight, then get it and record it for $7.50 or whatever, problem solved.  If it doesn't exist, or no one can find it, and it comes down to obtaining one from a defunct loan company or its successors in securitization, then it starts to become a title policy claim issue, because you want to force them to correct their error that results in a hickey on title, because that could get expensive just on the tail chasing to find the successor and convince them to generate and execute a lien release.