The CHAZ

[bad_teammate 13,567]

3 hours ago, Enchubben said:

It wasn’t taken, it was given by the spineless Seattle Mayor and a Washington governor.  There is a reason this is popping up in cities like Seattle and NYC and not in Texas, Florida etc  Any decent leader wouldn’t have let this garbage continue for more than a day.

Yes, beautifully run places where people are dying and getting sick en masse because of idiotic leadership and where poor and minority people know that they have no actual hope of help or representation.

The veneer of tranquility provided by brutal state power is all authoritarians need to tell themselves everything is fine.

Quote

In true hypocritical form it was easily “taken” back but only once it inconvenienced the worm elected to run the city. 

"hypocritical"? What?

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

True of CHAZ. True of America.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

Go back to the CR, dude.

[EuroHorn 3,295]

13 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Go back to the CRAZ, dude.

....

[bad_teammate 13,567]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Go back to the CR, dude.

Your safe space.

If your response to CHAZ has been to crave violent state intervention or to celebrate its eventual arrival, you're an authoritarian. Many of you guys are clearly authoritarians. And that's OK, be authoritarians.

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state and it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs. All three of those things are symptoms of a broken nation that has been broken long before CHAZ arose.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state

Yeah. That whole ""Autonomous Zone" thing was never there. Nope. Don't look at the name. It was just peace and love. Ignore the black child they murdered. Nope. Peace and Love. 

[workswithseed 2,205]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Your safe space.

If your response to CHAZ has been to crave violent state intervention or to celebrate its eventual arrival, you're an authoritarian. Many of you guys are clearly authoritarians. And that's OK, be authoritarians.

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state and it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs. All three of those things are symptoms of a broken nation that has been broken long before CHAZ arose.

It wasn't intended to be one, but also destined to fail? You don't fail if you never try.

[Moby Ric 2,058]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Your safe space.

If your response to CHAZ has been to crave violent state intervention or to celebrate its eventual arrival, you're an authoritarian. Many of you guys are clearly authoritarians. And that's OK, be authoritarians.

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state and it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs. All three of those things are symptoms of a broken nation that has been broken long before CHAZ arose.

Go back to the CR and keep the hate for the country flowing.  Hugo is depending on you.

[ajax 2,679]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Your safe space.

If your response to CHAZ has been to crave violent state intervention or to celebrate its eventual arrival, you're an authoritarian. Many of you guys are clearly authoritarians. And that's OK, be authoritarians.

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state and it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs. All three of those things are symptoms of a broken nation that has been broken long before CHAZ arose.

Every single post you make is either talking about or arguing with other posters, totally ignoring the issue at hand. Your posts stick out because they're out of place.

Fucking read the room. Are you completely dense?

[bad_teammate 13,567]

3 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Yeah. That whole ""Autonomous Zone" thing was never there. Nope. Don't look at the name.

It was an autonomous zone. Meaning: An area that was operating without official government intervention.

Anyone arguing that it was intended to be something like a formal city-state needs to explain why they think that, because it didn't come from CHAZ. 

Quote

It was just peace and love. Ignore the black child they murdered. Nope. Peace and Love. 

I literally just explained that. I'll do it again.

"...it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs."

The murder of young black men is an American symptom and CHAZ exists(ed) within America. A zone within a city cannot be immune from the diseases of that city, or city from state, or state from nation.

I know you guys are very eager to find dunks on your hated opponents, but you don't actually care about the kid that was murdered.

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It wasn't intended to be one, but also destined to fail? You don't fail if you never try.

Destined to fail at what?

1 minute ago, Moby Ric said:

Go back to the CR and keep the hate for the country flowing.  Hugo is depending on you.

Change forum name to "Lee Greenwood Choir"?

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

1 minute ago, ajax said:

Are you completely dense?

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The murder of young black men is an American symptom and CHAZ exists(ed) within America.

You can't be this stupid in real life, can you?

[bad_teammate 13,567]

3 minutes ago, ajax said:

Every single post you make is either talking about or arguing with other posters, totally ignoring the issue at hand. Your posts stick out because they're out of place.

Fucking read the room. Are you completely dense?

I would appreciate it if you could explain what you think I'm missing.

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You can't be this stupid in real life, can you?

It's entirely possible. It would be interesting to hear your explanation as to what is wrong with the argument you quoted.

[Moby Ric 2,058]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I would appreciate it if you could explain what you think I'm missing.

Common sense

[ChickenSandwich 9,982]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

The murder of young black men is an American symptom and CHAZ exists(ed) within America. A zone within a city cannot be immune from the diseases of that city, or city from state, or state from nation.

100% correct. “The murder of young black men” had nothing to do with the police in the CHAZ, but is an epidemic in cities run and operated just like Seattle. Glad you are actually starting to view the issues with facts instead of feelings. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[EuroHorn 3,295]

Groverat is on the loose...

even Groverat is considered too far right in the CRAZ.  Lol. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by EuroHorn

[bad_teammate 13,567]

What does "cities like Seattle" mean? What is the shared attribute between those cities?

 

[workswithseed 2,205]

36 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Dstined to fail at what?

 

To be an autonomous zone. If you think it wasn't trying at all, then why call yourself that?

[Richter 2,428]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

*is

"Lot" is the subject of the sentence. If you think saying "there are a lot" makes grammatical sense you need to go back and take Jr. High English again.

Maybe you need to go back to Jr. High English...

"The ambiguity here comes from “a lot of” appearing to be a noun phrase when it’s actually not used in the same way. It is used not as a grouping noun but like a quantifying adverb, like “many”. While a singular verb is appropriate with nouns that define the plural into a singular group, “a lot of” refers to a quantity rather than a grouped unit – modifying the verb as “many” would. So the verb agrees with the noun that “a lot of” qualifies, rather than “a lot”. We can therefore have either “are a lot of” or “is a lot of” depending on the noun. Mostly, we will use “There are a lot of” with countable nouns, when we discuss plurals, and “There is a lot of” with uncountable nouns.

• There are a lot of apples.
• There is a lot of meat.

It’s deceptive, but a good example of how exceptions to some of the simple rules of English can work – because words can be used for functions that are not what they immediately appear to be."

https://englishlessonsbrighton.co.uk/there-is-a-lot-of-vs-there-are-a-lot-of/

Also:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/there-is-there-are/

[workswithseed 2,205]

@DDD Dad loves grammar talk.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What does "cities like Seattle" mean? What is the shared attribute between those cities?

 

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

26 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

To be an autonomous zone. If you think it wasn't trying at all, then why call yourself that?

Something, something, it's The Man's fault.

[workswithseed 2,205]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

Something, something, it's The Man's fault.

Capitalism, it's the destroyer of all that is sacred and holy. 

[DDD Dad 14,663]

21 hours ago, workswithseed said:

There is a lot of people on here who don't seem to care.

Are they all standing on the same parcel of property?

[Incredulity 11,882]

48 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Groverat is on the loose...

even Groverat is considered too far right in the CRAZ.  Lol. 

The best current surly trend is BT being called a Trumpkin in CR.  Smdh

[bad_teammate 13,567]

Just now, workswithseed said:

To be an autonomous zone. If you think it wasn't trying at all, then why call yourself that?

It was trying to be an autonomous zone and fell victim to extremely predictable circumstances (becoming the gathering point for wounded/ill people who were isolated by normal American society and then state authoritarian violence).

I like the idea of people within a city pushing back against political leadership to establish self-governance in the face of government failure. It's unfortunate that our social safety net is so weak and our treatment of the mentally ill is so horrible that every effort at lenience and generosity is overwhelmed, but I don't put fault for that at the feet of those who want to help.

If one city brutally represses its homeless population and drives them away, those homeless people are just going to go somewhere else.
And if one city makes housing unavailable (or, to put it passively, housing becomes unavailable due to circumstances within a city), homelessness increases.

And if you're homeless, you see an area free of the authority that beats/oppresses you AND promises to give you food/shelter/attention, you're going to go there.

So in your minds, the only successful rebellion against the existing order is to just recreate that exact same order with a different name/flag.

5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I have been exhorted to "read the room", so allow me to say that I see people who want to argue politics, but aren't really equipped to do it successfully, so they try to argue politics indirectly and think they are being clever and opaque. But the same lack of intelligence that makes them unsuccessful at the political discussion they crave also makes their ploy obvious.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

so allow me to say that I see people who want to argue politics,

See, that's where you are wrong. WE DON'T WANT TO ARGUE POLITICS. If we did, we'd be in the CR throwing poo at each other.

[dcar00 14,997]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It was trying to be an autonomous zone and fell victim to extremely predictable circumstances (becoming the gathering point for wounded/ill people who were isolated by normal American society and then state authoritarian violence).

I like the idea of people within a city pushing back against political leadership to establish self-governance in the face of government failure. It's unfortunate that our social safety net is so weak and our treatment of the mentally ill is so horrible that every effort at lenience and generosity is overwhelmed, but I don't put fault for that at the feet of those who want to help.

If one city brutally represses its homeless population and drives them away, those homeless people are just going to go somewhere else.
And if one city makes housing unavailable (or, to put it passively, housing becomes unavailable due to circumstances within a city), homelessness increases.

And if you're homeless, you see an area free of the authority that beats/oppresses you AND promises to give you food/shelter/attention, you're going to go there.

So in your minds, the only successful rebellion against the existing order is to just recreate that exact same order with a different name/flag.

I have been exhorted to "read the room", so allow me to say that I see people who want to argue politics, but aren't really equipped to do it successfully, so they try to argue politics indirectly and think they are being clever and opaque. But the same lack of intelligence that makes them unsuccessful at the political discussion they crave also makes their ploy obvious.

well look at the big brain on BAD!

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Your safe space.

If your response to CHAZ has been to crave violent state intervention or to celebrate its eventual arrival, you're an authoritarian. Many of you guys are clearly authoritarians. And that's OK, be authoritarians.

The situation with CHAZ was never intended to be an autonomous city-state and it was always destined to be under extreme pressure due to the situation that surrounds it. We have shootings at these zones due to homelessness, mental illness, and gangs. All three of those things are symptoms of a broken nation that has been broken long before CHAZ arose.

Bullshit, bullshit, and have an extra dose of bullshit.  Wanting the legal authorities to retake parts of a city from a ignorant mob that had violently taken, looted from, and contributed to if not outright perpetrated brutally violent acts against people trapped in that area is not being authoritarian so you can drop that whole Marxist, Leninist, Che T shirt philosophy bullshit right now.

What they set up was an armed state of anarchy.  Fuck that noise.

[workswithseed 2,205]

24 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Are they all standing on the same parcel of property?

Yes, and some don't care about it.

[bad_teammate 13,567]

22 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

See, that's where you are wrong. WE DON'T WANT TO ARGUE POLITICS. If we did, we'd be in the CR throwing poo at each other.

Then how was my question bait?

Another question: Am I arguing politics in this thread?

What does "politics" mean?

[bad_teammate 13,567]

16 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wanting the legal authorities to retake parts of a city from a ignorant mob that had violently taken, looted from, and contributed to if not outright perpetrated brutally violent acts against people trapped in that area is not being authoritarian so you can drop that whole Marxist, Leninist, Che T shirt philosophy bullshit right now.

Violently taken? You're just being dishonest, bud.

The taking and occupation of CHAZ was extremely peaceful and no real violence was visited on the cops. They were told to leave and they left. When they tried to come back, they were repeatedly rebuffed by non-violent means.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Another question: Am I arguing politics in this thread?

You're being a troll, that's for sure. But that's what trolls do. 

[Sawbonz 28,245]

55 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Are they all standing on the same parcel of property?

Isn't that the whole premise of CHAZ?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Violently taken? You're just being dishonest, bud.

The taking and occupation of CHAZ was extremely peaceful and no real violence was visited on the cops. They were told to leave and they left. When they tried to come back, they were repeatedly rebuffed by non-violent means.

Uhh huh.... kOOOOM BA YAAAAA MY LORD KOOOOM BA YA.........

[MillerEP 30,907]

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Violently taken? You're just being dishonest, bud.
The taking and occupation of CHAZ was extremely peaceful and no real violence was visited on the cops. They were told to leave and they left. When they tried to come back, they were repeatedly rebuffed by non-violent means.

That’s not entirely true, they only initially left the police station after they were ordered out by their superiors. They were ordered out because they were afraid for their safety because they smashed in all the glass that led to the front lobby. They initially turned out the lights to the lobby and fled back through locked doors which led to the rest of the station. They were under siege, so they were ordered to retreat. Every time they tried to re-enter the area, such as when the first murder occurred they were met with overwhelming force and not allowed to enter any further into the zone for their safety. I suppose you can try to make the argument that yelling and screaming in a dense mob aren't "violence" but that's really a matter left up to the perception of individual that mob is directed against at that time. I haven't been in that situation, but I would probably also think this could turn bad at any moment and begin to feel "unsafe."The next time they tried was when the first attempt to dismantle the barriers occurred and they had guns drawn on them, so they had to take an extra two days to regroup and come in with overwhelming force.

Edited July 2, 2020 by MillerEP

[bad_teammate 13,567]

1 minute ago, MillerEP said:

That’s not entirely true, they only initially left the police station after they were ordered out by their superiors. They were ordered out because they were afraid for their safety because they smashed in all the glass that led to the front lobby. They initially turned out the lights to the lobby and fled back through locked doors which led to the rest of the station. They were under siege, so they were ordered to retreat. Every time they tried to re-enter the area, such as when the first murder occurred they were met with overwhelming force and not allowed to enter any further into the zone for their safety.

Sure, but I don't consider any of this violence.

I have very little respect for the "I'm scared!" call from police officers unless they are actually facing some kind of armed mob or unarmed mob with a history of ripping people apart and beating them to death. But I'm fine with them leaving because they didn't want to get screamed at, but their fear doesn't prove that the crowd was violent or intent on violence.

Quote

The next time they tried was when the first attempt to dismantle the barriers occurred and they had guns drawn on them, so they had to take an extra two days to regroup and come in with overwhelming force.

Source? I haven't seen anything about CHAZ folks drawing guns on officers and I find it very hard to believe.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sure, but I don't consider any of this violence.

 

Everyone just needs to let this comment sink in....  BT has just created a new definition of violence. One that suits his own personal philosophical needs.  

I think you have a hard time believing, let alone grasping the concept of anything based in reality.

[bad_teammate 13,567]

Imagine not understanding the difference between property crime and violent crime.

Man, that would suck.

[MillerEP 30,907]

35 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Source? I haven't seen anything about CHAZ folks drawing guns on officers and I find it very hard to believe.

There is a screenshot further up in the thread but the video from this news here talks about it:

https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/protester-lies-in-street-to-prevent-crews-from-removing-barricades-in-chop?jwsource=cl

[bad_teammate 13,567]

The video you linked shows a guy with a gun yelling about someone else having a rifle.

Saying that "they (police) had guns drawn on them" is false first because there weren't even any police there and second because it's not clear the guns were drawn on the removal crew. The crew smartly and rightly retreated once guns were drawn, but I see nothing to show that the guns were directed at them to get them to stop. (The pistol guy is in a defensive position behind a barrier, which is consistent with the idea of being afraid of a rifle present not trying to intimidate an unarmed removal crew.)

The one protester/removal crew interaction shown is a non-violent move of just laying down in the way.

Definitely a bad situation, true of a lot of the CHAZ, because they were in a garbage-in/garbage-out dilemma. Too chaotic, too unorganized, and too rudderless.

I understand the redesignation as CHOP because "occupied protest" is clearer messaging.

[RDCanecutter 26,924]

13 hours ago, Modessit said:

My dad wanted to name my sister Robespierre but my mom wouldn't let him*, so this hits close to home. Or something.

*True story.

I knew a chick at UT who named her kid "Matisse." Neither she nor her husband liked Matisse's paintings, they just wanted a kid named Matisse.

She also wore tiny glasses to be fashionable. They weren't even reading glasses, totally fake fashion statement. They fucked her eyes up so she had to switch to real glasses.

If that's your mom, sorry. And pics please.

[BabaYaga 15,632]

3 hours ago, ajax said:

Every single post you make is either talking about or arguing with other posters, totally ignoring the issue at hand. Your posts stick out because they're out of place.

Fucking read the room. Are you completely dense?

He's an admitted Communist.  Why waste your time

[BabaYaga 15,632]

17 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I knew a chick at UT who named her kid "Matisse." Neither she nor her husband liked Matisse's paintings, they just wanted a kid named Matisse.

She also wore tiny glasses to be fashionable. They weren't even reading glasses, totally fake fashion statement. They fucked her eyes up so she had to switch to real glasses.

If that's your mom, sorry. And pics please.

I had a friend from HS @ Jester that named his cat "Foucault"......If still with us, I'm sure he's haunting the CR.....if not already.  

[bad_teammate 13,567]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

He's an admitted Communist.  Why waste your time

Why wouldn't people talk to Communists?

Is this the 50s?

also

wE dOn'T wAnT tO aRgUe PoLiTiCs

Edited July 2, 2020 by bad_teammate

[elfenix 34,782]

RIP CHAZ.  we'll always have that time fox news didn't google a monty python bit

[workswithseed 2,205]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

It was trying to be an autonomous zone and fell victim to extremely predictable circumstances (becoming the gathering point for wounded/ill people who were isolated by normal American society and then state authoritarian violence).

I like the idea of people within a city pushing back against political leadership to establish self-governance in the face of government failure. It's unfortunate that our social safety net is so weak and our treatment of the mentally ill is so horrible that every effort at lenience and generosity is overwhelmed, but I don't put fault for that at the feet of those who want to help.

If one city brutally represses its homeless population and drives them away, those homeless people are just going to go somewhere else.
And if one city makes housing unavailable (or, to put it passively, housing becomes unavailable due to circumstances within a city), homelessness increases.

And if you're homeless, you see an area free of the authority that beats/oppresses you AND promises to give you food/shelter/attention, you're going to go there.

So in your minds, the only successful rebellion against the existing order is to just recreate that exact same order with a different name/flag.

 

If there is no utopia, then people will be poor, discriminated, and so on. I agree it's not great, but America has gotten closer to being right than this group of nitwits. What these people did was thier own doing. The homeless stole food on day one, so they made "police" who had guns, and gave out "justice" with no consequence. Not even the 4 cops who stood around Derek got away for standing around and watching him kill George. We're not perfect, but going in trashing, and commiting violence to others without even a justice system seems like a bad idea.

[bad_teammate 13,567]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

If there is no utopia, then people will be poor, discriminated, and so on. I agree it's not great, but America has gotten closer to being right than this group of nitwits.

Where do you think this "group of nitwits" came from? The moon? They're Americans in America. The fact that you see CHAZ as something actually distinct from America marks you as a FOXNews rube.

Quote

What these people did was thier own doing. The homeless stole food on day one, so they made "police" who had guns, and gave out "justice" with no consequence. Not even the 4 cops who stood around Derek got away for standing around and watching him kill George. We're not perfect, but going in trashing, and commiting violence to others without even a justice system seems like a bad idea.

CHAZ had its committees and meetings and hearings and all this informal structure to guide actions based on collective principles. And it was messy and ugly, yes.

However, the idea that civilization won by disbanding CHAZ is completely laughable. As you reference, CHAZ exists because police forces murder with impunity and then enact mass violence against people who gather to hold them to account.

Nothing was won here. There is no victory in CHAZ being disbanded. I am far more encouraged by a failed experiment in collective action than I am by the re-establishment of a failed authoritarian state system, but that's likely because "huh huh cop hit hippie with stick!" doesn't make me clap like a mouth-breathing seal.

[Cheeseweasel 26,443]

30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

However, the idea that civilization won by disbanding CHAZ is completely laughable.

The smell is better anyway

[bad_teammate 13,567]

7 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

The smell is better anyway

No way, you ever been near a sty?