The CHAZ

[Brisketexan 104426]

Just now, Gucci_Suit said:

All that is true, but there is more nuance to it... obviously... and I don’t want to get into it. But cops don’t cause the crime in black neighborhoods. Poverty does. I’d actually argue that your previous description of the school, is actually the most “systemic” cause of poverty and racism. Not arguing with you, just adding that there are several other layers. Cops (and teachers) have hard jobs and we shouldn’t “defund” either.   

Turns out Eric Wright was right? Sorry, been listening to a ton of NWA lately. 

Oh, if you want me to argue that it's not a complex system dynamic, you're gonna be disappointed.  It's not any one thing in isolation.  Systems are complex, with a metric crapton of inputs.  The reasons and manifestations for the situation of black people in America are manifold.

What this movement comes out of is one basic principle: at the very freaking least, society should assert control over the inputs that it literally controls.  The police work for US.  We have a duty to make sure that they do so in an appropriate manner.

[Brisketexan 104426]

Just now, dcar00 said:

good.  cops are racists.  how do we get rid of the racism in the police force as they interact with the public? I'll post this in the fix the police thread os we can continue to use this thread to laugh at Antifa and the new Manson Family commune in Seattle.

Fair enough.  And remember, I'm always up for laughing at delusional hippies.

[workswithseed 2028]

Just now, TriStone said:

Some were laughing at the dirt on top of cardboard, but that's a pretty common composting tactic.  They should have removed the sod before laying the cardboard though.  Get them a few more truckloads of compost and wood chips and they'd be well on their way.

Also a border. They would need forethought and money for most of this 

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes (and no, not all individually....but a shitload of them are).  Because they are indoctrinated into a culture (American policing) that is racist.  It's not a new phenomenon - look up "judenrats" during the reign of the Nazis.  A cop, regardless of his color, is indoctrinated into a way of looking at the public that sees black people as a greater threat, more likely to be up to no good, etc. etc.....meaning that in general, a black cop is also going to be likely to hassle a black person more than he would a white person.  The most important color to him now is BLUE, and being part of the blue means that you police in a racist manner (even if it's not necessarily a conscious decision, it's ingrained in the system).

How do Nigerian born African Americans fit into this preferred narrative?  They share the same skin color yet not the outcomes as their American born peers.  Are the police trained to determine the nation of birth from some from others? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

 

In a recent column in the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof dared to ask the “awkward question” of why Asian-Americans have been so economically successful in the U.S. The most important reasons, he says, are hard work and a reverence for education: 

 

 

“The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” by Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou, notes that Asian-American immigrants in recent decades have started with one advantage: They are highly educated...Lee and Zhou note that kids of working-class Asian-Americans often also thrive, showing remarkable upward mobility...

 I’m pretty sure that one factor is East Asia’s long Confucian emphasis on education...Immigrant East Asians often [make]  sacrifices for children’s education, such as giving prime space in the home to kids to study.

Kristof notes research showing that even when IQ scores are equally matched, East Asian kids tend to get ahead by working harder. He also cites experiments indicating that the stereotype of high intelligence and strong academic potential may be self-fulfilling -- a positive version of “stereotype threat.” 

Perhaps most surprising is that, by many measures, the most-educated immigrant group in the U.S. isn't East Asians. It’s Africans.

 

 

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

 

[workswithseed 2028]

 

Looks like police may put an end to it at some time. Pretty ambiguous when that'll happen.

[TriStone 1724]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Also a border. They would need forethought and money for most of this 

People are sending them plenty of money.  Forethought might be an issue.  The crowd seems to trend young.  Need some old-school hippie wisdom in the mix.

[workswithseed 2028]

2 minutes ago, TriStone said:

People are sending them plenty of money.  Forethought might be an issue.  The crowd seems to trend young.  Need some old-school hippie wisdom in the mix.

I wonder I where that money is going, and how it's being used.

[JBJ 3647]

Although funny right now, I have a feeling this will end poorly.

[Brisketexan 104426]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

How do Nigerian born African Americans fit into this preferred narrative?  They share the same skin color yet not the outcomes as their American born peers.  Are the police trained to determine the nation of birth from some from others? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

 

In a recent column in the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof dared to ask the “awkward question” of why Asian-Americans have been so economically successful in the U.S. The most important reasons, he says, are hard work and a reverence for education: 

 

 

“The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” by Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou, notes that Asian-American immigrants in recent decades have started with one advantage: They are highly educated...Lee and Zhou note that kids of working-class Asian-Americans often also thrive, showing remarkable upward mobility...

 I’m pretty sure that one factor is East Asia’s long Confucian emphasis on education...Immigrant East Asians often [make]  sacrifices for children’s education, such as giving prime space in the home to kids to study.

Kristof notes research showing that even when IQ scores are equally matched, East Asian kids tend to get ahead by working harder. He also cites experiments indicating that the stereotype of high intelligence and strong academic potential may be self-fulfilling -- a positive version of “stereotype threat.” 

Perhaps most surprising is that, by many measures, the most-educated immigrant group in the U.S. isn't East Asians. It’s Africans.

 

 

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

 

Fascinating that there are different levels of success between two black populations (Nigerians and native-born African Americans).  I wonder what possible explanations there could be?  Could the history and generational issues the disparate groups have experienced have had any effect?

Slavery, Jim Crow, and institutionalized racism have a LONG tail.  Recent immigrants have only had to deal with the remaining tail.  That's a much easier hill to climb.  I mean, there are literally books that have analyzed much of this.  It's why recent immigrants of almost any type do better than even their predecessors of the same race.  We aren't as shitty racist as we used to be, so the path is a lot clearer for folks just now starting out.

[riloh05 107]

is this just a new name for the occupy __________ from a couple of years ago?

https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/slideshow/Occupy-Seattle-Protests-32102.php

Edited June 12, 2020 by riloh05

[Brisketexan 104426]

Just now, JBJ said:

Although funny right now, I have a feeling this will end poorly.

Dude.  It's America, 2020.

"I have a feeling this will end poorly" is our national motto.

 

[TriStone 1724]

Quote

is this just a new name for the occupy __________ from a couple of years ago?

It's a little more amped up.  Occupy Wall Street didn't have guarded borders.  Anyone could have walked through.  I think this group is a little more militant, too.

Edited June 12, 2020 by TriStone

[Gucci_Suit 2610]

Yes... this is just occupy _____ from back in the Obama years. 
 

I just formed the West Austin Autonomous Zone (WAAZ). Gonna need to check in with Brian (he’s in commercial real estate) when crossing Exposition. He’s also handing out handmade ranch waters tho- so win!

[Nicole44 22023]

If the powers that be are gonna end the Chaz experiment why not just play some 70’s/80’s country music on a few loud speakers at 6:00 am non-stop for 24 hours. It’s been proven that this works with classical music and loiters (see 7/11 and their success it’s it).  Just kick it up a notch on the loud speaker. There’s no way the Chaz would survive. Plus, we need some podcasts from the Chaz until they are forced out. 

[elfenix 34164]

2 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

If the powers that be are gonna end the Chaz experiment why not just play some 70’s/80’s country music on a few loud speakers at 6:00 am non-stop for 24 hours. It’s been proven that this works with classical music and loiters (see 7/11 and their success it’s it).  Just kick it up a notch on the loud speaker. There’s no way the Chaz would survive. Plus, we need some podcasts from the Chaz until they are forced out. 

toby keith would be a war crime, wouldn't he?

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fascinating that there are different levels of success between two black populations (Nigerians and native-born African Americans).  I wonder what possible explanations there could be?  Could the history and generational issues the disparate groups have experienced have had any effect?

Slavery, Jim Crow, and institutionalized racism have a LONG tail.  Recent immigrants have only had to deal with the remaining tail.  That's a much easier hill to climb.  I mean, there are literally books that have analyzed much of this.  It's why recent immigrants of almost any type do better than even their predecessors of the same race.  We aren't as shitty racist as we used to be, so the path is a lot clearer for folks just now starting out.

so that would refute any claims of "systemic" correct and point to "historical"?  How are these two groups able to have such different outcomes using the same system if it is "systemic" due to skin color?

[workswithseed 2028]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

toby keith would be a war crime, wouldn't he?

 

[Brisketexan 104426]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

so that would refute any claims of "systemic" correct and point to "historical"?  How are these two groups able to have such different outcomes using the same system if it is "systemic" due to skin color?

Ummm, because both are a factor for one group?

And, of course, those systems are historical in nature as well (cops didn't just learn how to be racist last month).

[Brisketexan 104426]

6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

toby keith would be a war crime, wouldn't he?

That I was beaten to this response irks me, but I still repped it.

[Gucci_Suit 2610]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

so that would refute any claims of "systemic" correct and point to "historical"?  How are these two groups able to have such different outcomes using the same system if it is "systemic" due to skin color?

It’s a touchy subject, but one of my best friends is a masaai from Tanzania. His son is my god son. My dude can’t stand “American blacks” as he calls them. Mostly because they all clown him like he’s Urkel. 

it’s a weird dynamic when I’m trying to explain to my friend what it’s like to be black in America. When he’s actually black in America and I am not. 

Anyway, his son is American born black kid and I am 100% determined to make sure he gets the advice, education, and opportunity in his life. And it kills me that he may face some forms of racism in the future. Now it’s minor- white kids just tell him that he doesn’t seem black. Which pisses me off. 

[G650 13964]

23 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

so that would refute any claims of "systemic" correct and point to "historical"?  How are these two groups able to have such different outcomes using the same system if it is "systemic" due to skin color?

Words don't seem to be your strong suit.

[Nicole44 22023]

24 minutes ago, elfenix said:

toby keith would be a war crime, wouldn't he?

Sure. I was thinking more the Urban Cowboy soundtrack. I actually like the soundtrack but thinking the Chaz won’t.

[millhouse 2587]

Cajun Navy SEALS are at the ready

[Lhorn 4883]

It’s a touchy subject, but one of my best friends is a masaai from Tanzania. His son is my god son. My dude can’t stand “American blacks” as he calls them. Mostly because they all clown him like he’s Urkel. 
it’s a weird dynamic when I’m trying to explain to my friend what it’s like to be black in America. When he’s actually black in America and I am not. 
Anyway, his son is American born black kid and I am 100% determined to make sure he gets the advice, education, and opportunity in his life. And it kills me that he may face some forms of racism in the future. Now it’s minor- white kids just tell him that he doesn’t seem black. Which pisses me off. 

Seems like both “American blacks” and whites are judging your friends son based on stereotypes. He’s not acting the right way to be accepted by the blacks and the whites are surprised he isn’t “urban.”
It’s also been my observation that born in Africa immigrants have a very different experience than African Americans even though their skin is the same.

[Lhorn 4883]

Sure. I was thinking more the Urban Cowboy soundtrack. I actually like the soundtrack but thinking the Chaz won’t.

Lee Greenwood would have them curled up in a fetal position.

[G650 13964]

1 minute ago, Lhorn said:

Seems like both “American blacks” and whites are judging your friends son based on stereotypes. He’s not acting the right way to be accepted by the blacks and the whites are surprised he isn’t “urban.”
It’s also been my observation that born in Africa immigrants have a very different experience than African Americans even though their skin is the same.

Absolutely. My family has what is almost an adopted sister to me who is Kenyan. She ended up marrying and is now a citizen, but she definitely has a vastly different experience to American blacks.

[Nicole44 22023]

Lee Greenwood would have them curled up in a fetal position.

A little bit Charlie Daniels, Johnny Lee and Boz Scaggs...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bolverk 29355]

43 minutes ago, TriStone said:

It's a little more amped up.  Occupy Wall Street didn't have guarded borders.  Anyone could have walked through.  I think this group is a little more militant, too.

Looks like anyone can walk through. Hell, the cops who had left the precinct HQs are literally back in the building inside the zone.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/chief-best-says-response-times-now-three-times-longer-east-precinct/DTHBLRXE6ZG2NBCSK7HJP6OSHA/

[bolverk 29355]

18 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Sure. I was thinking more the Urban Cowboy soundtrack. I actually like the soundtrack but thinking the Chaz won’t.

They probably would too but in an ironic hipster way.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Just like Trinidad

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I am not making this up, but sources on the ground are reporting that there is an alternate autonomous zone with this autonomous zone that has now demarcated itself as CHAZ 2.0 

[TriStone 1724]

21 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Looks like anyone can walk through. Hell, the cops who had left the precinct HQs are literally back in the building inside the zone.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/chief-best-says-response-times-now-three-times-longer-east-precinct/DTHBLRXE6ZG2NBCSK7HJP6OSHA/

Interesting.  I hadn't been keeping tabs.  Figured they would flip their shit if a cop came in.

[Brisketexan 104426]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am not making this up, but sources on the ground are reporting that there is an alternate autonomous zone with this autonomous zone that has now demarcated itself as CHAZ 2.0 

[Incredulity 11529]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude, this is American policing we're talking about.  There ain't a pretty upside.

BTW, I dated a girl in high school who had a real Cameron Diaz vibe going.  She's actually getting divorced now, so you local guys keep your eyes out.

 

[cactusflinthead 27593]

7 hours ago, workswithseed said:

@cactusflinthead, how long do you give them? 

Apparently all they did was lay down cardboard, then put dirt over the cardboard.

I've grown on worse. The cardboard does a pretty good job of smothering weak stuff under it and does a fair job of slowing down more permanent shit. It's going to decompose fairly quickly. As long as it gets watered it should be fine. It's a fairly common method of guerrilla gardening. 

[John Lawrence 244]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

If the powers that be are gonna end the Chaz experiment why not just play some 70’s/80’s country music on a few loud speakers at 6:00 am non-stop for 24 hours. It’s been proven that this works with classical music and loiters (see 7/11 and their success it’s it).  Just kick it up a notch on the loud speaker. There’s no way the Chaz would survive. Plus, we need some podcasts from the Chaz until they are forced out. 

70s-80s country music is actually good.  Need some modern bro country on repeat.

[smuggs 9337]

2 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

It's a fairly common method of guerrilla gardening. 

LIGHTS OUT,

GUERRILLA GARDENING!

WATER THAT SHIT NOW!

[closetohumping 17377]

51 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

70s-80s country music is actually good.  Need some modern bro country on repeat.

Cowboy Troy.   Hick hop.  Hook em

[Fudge Nuggets 19117]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

How do Nigerian born African Americans fit into this preferred narrative?  They share the same skin color yet not the outcomes as their American born peers.  Are the police trained to determine the nation of birth from some from others? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

 

In a recent column in the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof dared to ask the “awkward question” of why Asian-Americans have been so economically successful in the U.S. The most important reasons, he says, are hard work and a reverence for education: 

 

 

“The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” by Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou, notes that Asian-American immigrants in recent decades have started with one advantage: They are highly educated...Lee and Zhou note that kids of working-class Asian-Americans often also thrive, showing remarkable upward mobility...

 I’m pretty sure that one factor is East Asia’s long Confucian emphasis on education...Immigrant East Asians often [make]  sacrifices for children’s education, such as giving prime space in the home to kids to study.

Kristof notes research showing that even when IQ scores are equally matched, East Asian kids tend to get ahead by working harder. He also cites experiments indicating that the stereotype of high intelligence and strong academic potential may be self-fulfilling -- a positive version of “stereotype threat.” 

Perhaps most surprising is that, by many measures, the most-educated immigrant group in the U.S. isn't East Asians. It’s Africans.

 

 

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

 

There is some serious selection bias going on there. Nigerians with the means to immigrate here are going to come from the very top of their society. You think wealth inequality is bad here (well you probably don’t but never mind that) Nigeria takes it to the extreme. So those that get here are already at a huge advantage compared to their less fortunate countrymen. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am not making this up, but sources on the ground are reporting that there is an alternate autonomous zone with this autonomous zone that has now demarcated itself as CHAZ 2.0 

Chaz 2, Electric Boogaloo.

[Parliament 14106]

1 hour ago, John Lawrence said:

70s-80s country music is actually good.  Need some modern bro country on repeat.

It'll kill more hippies than shampoo.

[John Lawrence 244]

Just now, Parliament said:

It'll kill more hippies than shampoo.

What the fuck is that?

[Parliament 14106]

Just now, John Lawrence said:

What the fuck is that?

It's the most powerful weapon to ever come out of DARPA.  

[Pescado_Rojo 19327]

3 hours ago, Gucci_Suit said:

Yes... this is just occupy _____ from back in the Obama years. 
 

I just formed the West Austin Autonomous Zone (WAAZ). Gonna need to check in with Brian (he’s in commercial real estate) when crossing Exposition. He’s also handing out handmade ranch waters tho- so win!

How many WAMYs (West Austin Mommys) you got? 

[Iceman 2629]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, if you want me to argue that it's not a complex system dynamic, you're gonna be disappointed.  It's not any one thing in isolation.  Systems are complex, with a metric crapton of inputs.  The reasons and manifestations for the situation of black people in America are manifold.

What this movement comes out of is one basic principle: at the very freaking least, society should assert control over the inputs that it literally controls.  The police work for US.  We have a duty to make sure that they do so in an appropriate manner.

people really want to make it more complicated than it is.

Fix those who enforce the laws first.

Then start down the road of other issues.  Without the first point, nothing else really matters.

 

It seems crystal fucking clear...

[Gucci_Suit 2610]

17 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

How many WAMYs (West Austin Mommys) you got? 

At least 1. Working on more. 

[Bill Brasky 1438]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am not making this up, but sources on the ground are reporting that there is an alternate autonomous zone with this autonomous zone that has now demarcated itself as CHAZ 2.0 

[Iceman 2629]

4 hours ago, millhouse said:

Cajun Navy SEALS are at the ready

Crawfish boil at the CP will be glorious.

[Guadaloopy 10902]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Cowboy Troy.   Hick hop.  Hook em

Is Cowboy Troy on Surly?  We lived on the same floor in Jester my first year.  

[Sawbonz 27364]

5 hours ago, TriStone said:

It's a little more amped up.  Occupy Wall Street didn't have guarded borders.  Anyone could have walked through.  I think this group is a little more militant, too.

What will happen to me if I get caught crossing illegally?