Welcome to the American Inquistion

[Sbbruin 21849]

57 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Coming from you ?  Owww.....

Doesn't change the fact she was a horrible horrible person who should never have been allowed near the Oval Office.

I agree.  But I thought the Donald would be bad for this country.  I couldn’t have imagined he would be this bad.

[BradInATX 9208]

There used to be boards filled with people who wanted to do the same.    

There still are. It's just that people who applaud and enable bigotry, graft, xenophobia, hatred, and the demonization of critical thinking and science aren't allowed at the table.
You're not a victim. You're just a shitty person who nobody wants to hear from.

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

[BradInATX 9208]

This is a nice example of the point I was making.  I have not the slightest clue who you are, don't think we have ever engaged in any discussions (maybe a few brief ones I don't remember).  If you knew my history as a poster, you would know that I used to post almost exclusively about science.  But your immediate reflex is to question motives and moral character and to list the typical characteristics of those you would like to place in the "do not engage" category.  

You know exactly who I am. You spent several weeks following me around and riding my nuts on the Daily Texan. And while you can try to sound smart and reasonable and talk yourself into thinking that the reason nobody wants to talk to you is because everyone else is ignorant, everyone who has interacted with you knows what you're all about. Your thesaurus and fedora act isn't working on anyone.

[Gatorubet 30232]

Whelp.   A bourbon hangover is better than a vodka one.  So I got that going for me - which is nice.

If you read the original Castilian 15th century Spanish sources, many record that EMAWesome is a troll bitch.   Two week dry aged bone-in ribeye gonna be grilled in six hours if it does not rain.   

[Tom 2959]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd say Hillary was one of the worst things, Trump is definitely in that arena, but the outsider candidate is what I want to see more of running for elected office. Institutional party candidates are the problem in the countries political life.

 

Imagine being this fucking stupid.

[Anastasis 23469]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You know exactly who I am.

[Gatorubet 30232]

19 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

There still are. It's just that people who applaud and enable bigotry, graft, xenophobia, hatred, and the demonization of critical thinking and science aren't allowed at the table.

 

xenophobia and hatred....that's twice

Edited June 14, 2020 by Gatorubet

[Gatorubet 30232]

6 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

Imagine being this fucking stupid.

25 years of Vince Foster and Pizza front child sexual slavery stories shoulda told ya.  Their brains are mush.

[Anastasis 23469]

15 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Whelp.   A bourbon hangover is better than a vodka one.  So I got that going for me - which is nice.

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

I think you are confusing me with someone else.  You have a bland name, no avatar, and if your others posts are like these, you write forgettable, indistinguishable expressions of frustration.  Nothing about you stands out that one would remember.      

 

K.

Please, carry on lamenting how the reason you can't find intellectual conversation is because everyone else is too ignorant and closed minded for you.

 

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/neckbeard.jpg

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Axiom of Choice said:

You are projecting your own views or inadequacies.  I think there are many clever people on this site.  It is mostly filled with professionals (many who are successful even by professional standards) with aptitudes well above average.  

 

[Nivek 16925]

The game.  Always hate the game. 

Is that a Holiday in Cambodia?

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Is that a Holiday in Cambodia?

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

The game.  Always hate the game. 

[elfenix 34237]

3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Well over 100,000 Americans are dead because Trump’s only response to a pandemic was to steal emergency medical supplies from states to give to his friends to sell back to the states at a huge markup. Fuck you and your “Hillary is still worse” bullshit.

someone's rep sock is back

[Nivek 16925]

6 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I agree with the message boards often being used while on the shitter to kill a few minutes.  But I don't think they are fundamentally bad for discussion and debate on a range of topics.  I used to get into detailed back and forth discussions among dissenting opinions on bulletin boards all the time.  But very rarely am I able to engage in one these days.  This change has occurred across virtually every forum on the internet.  Of course the internet has always been a hostile place, but I do not really care if discussions are cordial or not; I prefer them to be cordial, but if there are insults and accusations of stupidity thrown in they can still be worthwhile.  

The analogy I give is to chess.  I sometimes want to play chess, and it is easy to get a game online.  The rules are set and don't change and everyone knows what we are there for.  Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose, and oftentimes people will trash talk and call you an idiot.  I don't care, the trash talk can even be fun sometimes.  But never do people claim you are morally deficient for wanting to play, and never does anyone try to shut down a game and say "this guy is not playing in good faith, do not even play him."  I feel the equivalent happens all the time on message boards.  It is more effective to ignore, talk over, and question motives (call them a troll, imply they are not intellectually but morally deficient) than to engage.  Well, maybe I am morally deficient, but really I just want to waste some time playing the debate game.  There used to be boards filled with people who wanted to do the same.    

AOC, 

I tend to believe the structure of a forum doesn't lend itself to gaining one's full attention the majority of the time.  While I post, I am often interrupted and often post broken sentences, fortunately most people understand the intent.  I also agree that the boards have changed, we are getting older on here and the youth do not appear to be joining these sites, and our personal lives dominate.

In my experience (starting with a local BBS, to Prodigy) I never found the internet to be hostile back in the early 90s really, a few kids full of bravado, but I suppose I was as well.   I am not sure how relevant of a comparison chess is as discussions online do not have established rules where one is restricted from movements or even posting the equivalent of kicking over the board and running.   On chess, IIRC there used to be some ratings system which helped players find other comparatively skilled players and crappy players would be left to the dregs of the league.  Here, bad actors and should be called out, and those whom repeatedly post foreign state-sponsored propaganda should be removed. 

Circling back a little, I believe we could have a discussion on topics such as the existence of God, or discussion of military tactics employed by the Japanese in WW2.  Because those topics (yes even God) lends itself to an exchange of ideas and perspectives.  Politics can works as well, but doesn’t often because there is a lack of honest exchange.   We still have people who think Hillary would have been worse than Trump even though all evidence is contrary.  We have people whom now hold the belief that it is OK to put kids in cages and force toddlers to represent themselves in court without the benefit of a translator.   Those are fundamental differences which cannot be bridged.  

I see our politics board is more of a news forum and expression of frustration than any real in depths discussion, though I appreciate some of our resident lawyers correcting my mistakes and doctors providing insight as to their situation, though I often fail to express such sentiments. 

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

I agree with several statements above, paraphrased (I hope not too poorly) below:

- Discussion of actual political policy has been very poor in last few years for several reasons, including lack of good-faith arguments and lack of any philosophical or consistent policy-based argument by current administration (e.g. what we think today has no bearing on what we thought yesterday or will think tomorrow).

- Those that would be primary drivers of discussion above include @Ghost of LL, @longhornmatt, and potentially @Brisketexan (only mentioning potentially because I think he started becoming less conservative before this administration, for right or wrong). These voices have become stridently anti-current administration, so not much debate there. Other "true believes", including Swam4Texas, @EMAWesome, @markstanco, @TahoeHorn (and his acknowledged sock @MixtyMotions), are part of that latter group of drive-by comments, lack of follow through on discussion, etc. i can only think of one conservative poster who genuinely seems to want to have conversation (@Wulaw Horn). @Anastasis doesn't count here as he hates both sides. 

- That leaves primary discussion being either "How bad were things today" or discussion over issues that are fact-based, not belief-based. Here there is certainly a grey area as difference between fact and implication of fact is not always as clear as it may seem, but I refer to things like legal or political rationale with Mueller Report and Flynn Hearing. Not discussion over whether behavior is wrong or right, but about what the basis for certain court rulings, committee reports, etc. I personally have enjoyed following these conversations, although I have not contributed.

What does that leave us? There have been cool discussion on philosophy, existence of God, etc., but I don't see how there can be any actual policy-based discussion in CR without actual policy to debate. The Columbus discussion (and I understand that this is only an example for you) should not be CR-bound, and is going to necessarily get smaller viewership (and therefore discussion) because of its presence in CR. That could easily be in DT, except for it would get sidetracked with Trump this and Trump that. Our national discourse is so broken that everything is viewed through policy, and so it comes back to lack of consistent policy to use to formulate arguments.

That's a lot of words, and it probably looks like I'm saying it's all the other guys's fault. And it's true, both for us guys as well as the other guys. This is a symptom, not a casual factor. I think I need that ledge now. Any scotch left?

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

We have people whom now hold the belief that it is OK to put kids in cages

And even worse, we have people who simply haven't been paying attention. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

I don’t think it’s the Spanish Inquisition I think it’s the French Revolution. 

Im very very worried about the intolerance of dissenting ideas I see from liberals today. Once upon a time the idea was that we should hear every voice on the subject and that was the 60’s liberal mainline viewpoint. 

Now, I’m the age of cancel culture, it seems to be that more people are interested in shouting down ideas they don’t agree with and canceling the speaker. 

Has anyone been paying attention to the JK Rowling kerfuffle over her viewpoint on trans people?  She’s coming from it in a place of love for trans people (or at least clearly not hate) and critiquing from a very left wing position. However, she’s still being shouted down as a Terf and having people call for banning her books (and some burning them). 

Its an honest disagreement of policy and conscience from a very liberal position and she’s being treated like an unperson. That’s just one of many examples I worry about.  

The reason I’m worried about and talking about the liberals doing this is because 1) they are the most into cancel culture (that used to be an old guard regressive conservative position) and 2) it’s beyond clear (to me at least) that this is the group that will be running America for the foreseeable future.

And an America without dissent is scary as hell to me. 

Look, I know Trump is a buffoon. He’s a one off, last ditch effort to rage against the tide, that lucked out to run against the second least popular candidate ever and parlayed that into an electoral college win by winning three states by razor thin margins. It’s not really replicable. But this cancel culture seems to be really prevalent- if you don’t believe whatever the main group does you just get destroyed. That’s not the way I remember it as a kid going to UT. 

Social media gonna kill us all. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Biden did win the nomination after all, and he doesn’t represent that, but the energy on the left seems to be with those that want to stifle dissent. I hope that’s just a message board and Twitter thing (I’m not on twitter but that seems to be the consensus),  it real life, and I’m just acting like a nervous nelly bc I’m getting older and old people yell at the clouds and worry about the world their children will inherit. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

10 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

This is a nice example of the point I was making.  I have not the slightest clue who you are, don't think we have ever engaged in any discussions (maybe a few brief ones I don't remember).  If you knew my history as a poster, you would know that I used to post almost exclusively about science.  But your immediate reflex is to question motives and moral character and to list the typical characteristics of those you would like to place in the "do not engage" category.  

I think you are pretty great. Just saying. 

[TwiceHorn 31457]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t think it’s the Spanish Inquisition I think it’s the French Revolution. 

Im very very worried about the intolerance of dissenting ideas I see from liberals today. Once upon a time the idea was that we should hear every voice on the subject and that was the 60’s liberal mainline viewpoint. 

Now, I’m the age of cancel culture, it seems to be that more people are interested in shouting down ideas they don’t agree with and canceling the speaker. 

Has anyone been paying attention to the JK Rowling kerfuffle over her viewpoint on trans people?  She’s coming from it in a place of love for trans people (or at least clearly not hate) and critiquing from a very left wing position. However, she’s still being shouted down as a Terf and having people call for banning her books (and some burning them). 

Its an honest disagreement of policy and conscience from a very liberal position and she’s being treated like an unperson. That’s just one of many examples I worry about.  

The reason I’m worried about and talking about the liberals doing this is because 1) they are the most into cancel culture (that used to be an old guard regressive conservative position) and 2) it’s beyond clear (to me at least) that this is the group that will be running America for the foreseeable future.

And an America without dissent is scary as hell to me. 

Look, I know Trump is a buffoon. He’s a one off, last ditch effort to rage against the tide, that lucked out to run against the second least popular candidate ever and parlayed that into an electoral college win by winning three states by razor thin margins. It’s not really replicable. But this cancel culture seems to be really prevalent- if you don’t believe whatever the main group does you just get destroyed. That’s not the way I remember it as a kid going to UT. 

Social media gonna kill us all. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Biden did win the nomination after all, and he doesn’t represent that, but the energy on the left seems to be with those that want to stifle dissent. I hope that’s just a message board and Twitter thing (I’m not on twitter but that seems to be the consensus),  it real life, and I’m just acting like a nervous nelly bc I’m getting older and old people yell at the clouds and worry about the world their children will inherit. 

There is a lot to this and i agree about social media.

But one thing that drives it is that there really aren't many valid ideas coming from conservatives at present.  There are "talking points' and "dog whistles" because the George Wills have been marginalized by the whatever the fuck the GOP is now besides a Trump death cult.  Even Bill Kristol and Jonah Goldberg are reduced to basically shitting on Trump.

No one is advancing any policy ideas other than simple and facile opposition to progressive ideas.  They don't even acknowledge that there are real problems underlying some of the wilder progressive ideas.

We have malignant shitheads like Sessions, Tom Cotton, and Mitch McConnell as the actual political voices; complete shitstains like Stephen Miller, Limbaugh, and Bannon as the commentariat and no Krauthammers or Wills or Buckleys anymore.

Edited June 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There is a lot to this and i agree about social media.

But one thing that drives it is that there really aren't many valid ideas coming from conservatives at present.  There are "talking points' and "dog whistles" because the George Wills have been marginalized by the whatever the fuck the GOP is now besides a Trump death cult.  Even Bill Kristol and Jonah Goldberg are reduced to basically shitting on Trump.

No one is advancing any policy ideas other than simple and facile opposition to progressive ideas.  They don't even acknowledge that there are real problems underlying some of the wilder progressive ideas.

We have malignant shitheads like Sessions, Tom Cotton, and Mitch McConnell as the actual political voices; complete shitstains like Stephen Miller, Limbaugh, and Bannon as the commentariat and no Krauthammers or Wills or Buckleys anymore.

Sure. I don’t disagree with almost anything you wrote, but that’s beside the point to me bc it’s irrelevant to the future which is my concern. None of those people will be governing except as a small minority party in the south (for a while) and the Midwest/plains states. 

[BradInATX 9208]

34 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t think it’s the Spanish Inquisition I think it’s the French Revolution. 

Im very very worried about the intolerance of dissenting ideas I see from liberals today. Once upon a time the idea was that we should hear every voice on the subject and that was the 60’s liberal mainline viewpoint. 

Now, I’m the age of cancel culture, it seems to be that more people are interested in shouting down ideas they don’t agree with and canceling the speaker. 

Has anyone been paying attention to the JK Rowling kerfuffle over her viewpoint on trans people?  She’s coming from it in a place of love for trans people (or at least clearly not hate) and critiquing from a very left wing position. However, she’s still being shouted down as a Terf and having people call for banning her books (and some burning them). 

Its an honest disagreement of policy and conscience from a very liberal position and she’s being treated like an unperson. That’s just one of many examples I worry about.  

The reason I’m worried about and talking about the liberals doing this is because 1) they are the most into cancel culture (that used to be an old guard regressive conservative position) and 2) it’s beyond clear (to me at least) that this is the group that will be running America for the foreseeable future.

And an America without dissent is scary as hell to me. 

Look, I know Trump is a buffoon. He’s a one off, last ditch effort to rage against the tide, that lucked out to run against the second least popular candidate ever and parlayed that into an electoral college win by winning three states by razor thin margins. It’s not really replicable. But this cancel culture seems to be really prevalent- if you don’t believe whatever the main group does you just get destroyed. That’s not the way I remember it as a kid going to UT. 

Social media gonna kill us all. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Biden did win the nomination after all, and he doesn’t represent that, but the energy on the left seems to be with those that want to stifle dissent. I hope that’s just a message board and Twitter thing (I’m not on twitter but that seems to be the consensus),  it real life, and I’m just acting like a nervous nelly bc I’m getting older and old people yell at the clouds and worry about the world their children will inherit. 

 

When you support the current president and senate and what they are doing to our country, you don't deserve a seat at the discussion table. Sorry that you don't like that. Go sit at the table with all of the racist white trash that you're currently enabling. 

You don't get to do shitty, childish, selfish, hateful things like vote for Donald Trump and then turn around and play victim and say "waahh nobody wants to hear my 'dissenting opinion'". 

I'm not interested in talking to a rapist about sex crime laws. Nor am I interested in talking to anyone who enabled the largest anti-intellect and science movements in the modern history of our country about anything intellectual. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

"We put in one of the worst human beings on the planet as president just to own the liberals and now I just don't understand why they don't want to talk to me and listen to my opinions! I'm the real victim here!"

Sorry snowflake. You made your bed, now lie in it.

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradInATX

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

28 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t think it’s the Spanish Inquisition I think it’s the French Revolution. 

Im very very worried about the intolerance of dissenting ideas I see from liberals today. Once upon a time the idea was that we should hear every voice on the subject and that was the 60’s liberal mainline viewpoint. 

Now, I’m the age of cancel culture, it seems to be that more people are interested in shouting down ideas they don’t agree with and canceling the speaker. 

Has anyone been paying attention to the JK Rowling kerfuffle over her viewpoint on trans people?  She’s coming from it in a place of love for trans people (or at least clearly not hate) and critiquing from a very left wing position. However, she’s still being shouted down as a Terf and having people call for banning her books (and some burning them). 

Its an honest disagreement of policy and conscience from a very liberal position and she’s being treated like an unperson. That’s just one of many examples I worry about.  

The reason I’m worried about and talking about the liberals doing this is because 1) they are the most into cancel culture (that used to be an old guard regressive conservative position) and 2) it’s beyond clear (to me at least) that this is the group that will be running America for the foreseeable future.

And an America without dissent is scary as hell to me. 

Look, I know Trump is a buffoon. He’s a one off, last ditch effort to rage against the tide, that lucked out to run against the second least popular candidate ever and parlayed that into an electoral college win by winning three states by razor thin margins. It’s not really replicable. But this cancel culture seems to be really prevalent- if you don’t believe whatever the main group does you just get destroyed. That’s not the way I remember it as a kid going to UT. 

Social media gonna kill us all. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Biden did win the nomination after all, and he doesn’t represent that, but the energy on the left seems to be with those that want to stifle dissent. I hope that’s just a message board and Twitter thing (I’m not on twitter but that seems to be the consensus),  it real life, and I’m just acting like a nervous nelly bc I’m getting older and old people yell at the clouds and worry about the world their children will inherit. 

Twicehorn already responded to part of your post, but I think you are being very myopic with your view of liberal intolerance. Who are the tolerant conservative voices? Who is there to react to? In the views of many, the conservative Congress and Senate essentially punished any tolerance from a policy-viewpoint, from reaction to Medical reform, Merrick Garland, etc. If there is no voice of reason in power, how can there be reason in response? That trickles down to social discussion. Hell maybe liberals started it, I don't know, but it's not just a lack of tolerance from liberals online.

In terms of JK Rowling specifically you are again coming at this from your point of view, which is totally understandable and expected, but then assuming that it is the RIGHT point of view. She most certainly didn't come at her blog post from a place of love. I don't know that it came from a place of hate, but it certainly didn't come from love. It is her honest viewpoint to be sure, but it is coming down to a community that already feel marginalized and hurt. I don't fully agree with this response, but I would urge you to check out this Instagram post. I know, Instagram, but it is an annotated response that rationally discusses why her post was so hurtful and led to much of the reaction. I came upon this through news aggregation, otherwise would never have seen this, but found it really interesting. It starts not from Rowling not acceding to group think, but rather supporting someone who explicitly denies that Trans women are women. You may agree with that, or may not agree but think it is not a big deal, but I think you could at least agree that it is a big deal to that community, and therefore stirs up a whole mess of response and emotion.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Serak The Preparer
typo in first paragraph

[workswithseed 2103]

Cancel culture isn't coming from government, but from large businesses. It's very legal, and very dangerous. 

I was talking to @mdmost about the soccer player who got axed by his employer for what his wife did. I understand why, I just don't think it's good practice. If he divorced his wife, would he get his job back? Is he ever gonna get a job for what his wife did?

 

[Mole 4330]

Since a troll thread has turned into a discussion of the broader culture, there is a reason to be concerned with unchecked cancel culture. Forces for good often degenerate into forces for evil, and the broader cultural strategy for achieving good (and the current movement is no doubt a force for good) is well situated to ultimately trample over innocent people.

This is where we desperately need coherent conservative voices as a check. What we have now isn’t a coherent conservative voice; denying or distracting from the problems isn’t a coherent or defendable position any more. 

Denying the problem (or attempting to claim a position of being oppressed, as the troll OP did) isn’t engaging with it and won’t effectively check the more destructive elements of the righteous anger. The way to keep this from spiraling out of control is to acknowledge the reality of the problem (and some conservative voices have been successful at this to a certain extent) and speak positive conservative solutions.

We also must all recognize that our culture has gotten race very wrong for so long that some things we find sacred might become casualties. It’s ok to mourn the loss (say the Eyes actually goes away, it’ll be a loss for many) without losing our minds or casting ourselves as an oppressed people.

[wildcat09 29353]

36 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t think it’s the Spanish Inquisition I think it’s the French Revolution. 

Im very very worried about the intolerance of dissenting ideas I see from liberals today. Once upon a time the idea was that we should hear every voice on the subject and that was the 60’s liberal mainline viewpoint. 

Now, I’m the age of cancel culture, it seems to be that more people are interested in shouting down ideas they don’t agree with and canceling the speaker. 

Has anyone been paying attention to the JK Rowling kerfuffle over her viewpoint on trans people?  She’s coming from it in a place of love for trans people (or at least clearly not hate) and critiquing from a very left wing position. However, she’s still being shouted down as a Terf and having people call for banning her books (and some burning them). 

Its an honest disagreement of policy and conscience from a very liberal position and she’s being treated like an unperson. That’s just one of many examples I worry about.  

The reason I’m worried about and talking about the liberals doing this is because 1) they are the most into cancel culture (that used to be an old guard regressive conservative position) and 2) it’s beyond clear (to me at least) that this is the group that will be running America for the foreseeable future.

And an America without dissent is scary as hell to me. 

Look, I know Trump is a buffoon. He’s a one off, last ditch effort to rage against the tide, that lucked out to run against the second least popular candidate ever and parlayed that into an electoral college win by winning three states by razor thin margins. It’s not really replicable. But this cancel culture seems to be really prevalent- if you don’t believe whatever the main group does you just get destroyed. That’s not the way I remember it as a kid going to UT. 

Social media gonna kill us all. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Biden did win the nomination after all, and he doesn’t represent that, but the energy on the left seems to be with those that want to stifle dissent. I hope that’s just a message board and Twitter thing (I’m not on twitter but that seems to be the consensus),  it real life, and I’m just acting like a nervous nelly bc I’m getting older and old people yell at the clouds and worry about the world their children will inherit. 

Donald Trump and GOP senators want to deploy American troops to shoot peaceful protesters, right wing vigilantes have carried out dozens of attacks against peaceful protesters already, and never Trump conservatives are pretending that liberals yelling at a billionaire online is the most dangerous thing in America today. You love to see it.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

8 hours ago, BradInATX said:

 

When you support the current president and senate and what they are doing to our country, you don't deserve a seat at the discussion table. Sorry that you don't like that. Go sit at the table with all of the racist white trash that you're currently enabling. 

You don't get to do shitty, childish, selfish, hateful things like vote for Donald Trump and then turn around and play victim and say "waahh nobody wants to hear my 'dissenting opinion'". 

I'm not interested in talking to a rapist about sex crime laws. Nor am I interested in talking to anyone who enabled the largest anti-intellect and science movements in the modern history of our country about anything intellectual. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

"We put in one of the worst human beings on the planet as president just to own the liberals and now I just don't understand why they don't want to talk to me and listen to my opinions! I'm the real victim here!"

Sorry snowflake. You made your bed, now lie in it.

Uh, except for the fact that I anti trump bc he’s loathsome sure. 

As I said, that’s not the future of this country, which is what I was talking about (hint- he’s loathsome, and fixing to get killed and swept into the dust bin of history) and that doesn’t apply to my critique of someone like JK Rowlings, sure, topical response. Thanks! 

[wildcat09 29353]

White supremacists are lynching black guys in California while the cops look the other way but the real danger is people being mean to a billionaire online.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

8 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Donald Trump and GOP senators want to deploy American troops to shoot peaceful protesters, right wing vigilantes have carried out dozens of attacks against peaceful protesters already, and never Trump conservatives are pretending that liberals yelling at a billionaire online is the most dangerous thing in America today. You love to see it.

I happen to think that there’s not much more dangerous for the American body politic, long term, than a normalization of cancel culture and an inability to brook opposing viewpoints. 

I’d actually even use Trump as an example of why this is so, even. He was elected. Tax reform was just about all that was passed legislatively. For good or ill that’s just regular, run of the mill, mainline policy- not some radical departure from normal policy. 

He then got skull fucked in the midterms and is fixing to get routed in 2020. Basically exactly how America course corrects whenever we do something that doesn’t work out how we’d like it to. 

Cancel culture is different. You don’t dust yourself off from that, imo. Once a person is marginalized or made to be an unperson that sticks. Forever. 

Like I said- maybe I’m wrong. But I don’t like where this is headed. 

[wildcat09 29353]

Republicans in charge: a disease that kills relatively few people in every other country kills 200,000 here by the end of the summer, unchecked police violence, fucking lynchings, people getting run over by nazis, etc. But the victims are disproportionately poor and minority people.

Democrats in charge: wealthy people who say gratuitously mean things about other people might get boycotted

I usually like you Wulaw, but this is absolutely fucking insane and makes it very hard to draw any conclusion other than you don’t care about black and brown people. You’re clearly more worried about some rich white people facing social opprobrium for stating what liberals consider to be unacceptable opinions than you are about black people being fucking lynched for stating what conservatives consider to be an unacceptable opinion (which is merely that black lives matter).

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

8 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Twicehorn already responded to part of your post, but I think you are being very myopic with your view of liberal intolerance. Who are the tolerant conservative voices? Who is there to react to? In the views of many, the conservative Congress and Senate essentially punished any tolerance from a policy-viewpoint, from reaction to Medical reform, Merrick Garland, etc. If there is no voice of reason in power, how can there be reason in response? That trickles down to social discussion. Hell maybe liberals started it, I don't know, but it's not just a lack of tolerance from liberals online.

In terms of JK Rowling specifically you are again coming at this from your point of view, which is totally understandable and expected, but then assuming that it is the RIGHT point of view. She most certainly didn't come at her blog post from a place of love. I don't know that it came from a place of hate, but it certainly didn't come from love. It is her honest viewpoint to be sure, but it is coming down to a community that already feel marginalized and hurt. I don't fully agree with this response, but I would urge you to check out this Instagram post. I know, Instagram, but it is an annotated response that rationally discusses why her post was so hurtful and led to much of the reaction. I came upon this through news aggregation, otherwise would never have seen this, but found it really interesting. It starts not from Rowling not acceding to group think, but rather supporting someone who explicitly denies that Trans women are women. You may agree with that, or may not agree but think it is not a big deal, but I think you could at least agree that it is a big deal to that community, and therefore stirs up a whole mess of response and emotion.

I read the post- thanks. 

When I was trying to describe it to my wife the other day one point I made was that the exact argument she made about “tolerance will lead to acceptance and that will lead to more of this behavior” she made about entire child groups eventually transitioning could equally be made about homosexuality, and if you’d have made that point about homosexuality my bet is that JK wild have been ready to fight you to the death. The logic is absolutely the same though, and a real blind spot. I found it interesting.  The thing is, I’m pretty sure she’s right about the possibility but she can’t see that the same thought has broader implications for her other beliefs.  It’s also possible she’s wrong, in which case she’s got a blind spot because??? No idea  

She can speak up because she’s able to and apparently doesn’t give a fuck- but what about when real ice or facts get in the way of a belief- what about when that’s hurtful to somebody?  Because something is hurtful to literally everybody?  How do we respond to that?  Is it a scanning of whose got the most privilege and it goes from there?  Does anyone benefit from that? 

Ive always believed that society benefits from a healthy and robust exchange of ideas- the right idea wins out in the end- sometimes only after we’ve tried everything else and found that wanting.  Debate her and you can change her mind.  Or maybe not hers but someone else’s.  Shout her down and nothing changes.

MLk accomplished more with non violence than any aggrieved group ever did that took up arms.  Ghandi.  They actually changed large swaths of peoples minds and made the world a better and more tolerant place.

It’s my belief that this stuff wins, but there’s no guarantee that as a culture we will continue a debate- especially if you can get the easy win by calling someone a nazi and shouting them down. The word would be much poorer without JK’s contribution to it, and truthfully if handled right and you are on the winning side of the ideas of this issue it would be a huge opportunity to win hearts and minds  

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

21 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Republicans in charge: a disease that kills relatively few people in every other country kills 200,000 here by the end of the summer, unchecked police violence, fucking lynchings, people getting run over by nazis, etc. But the victims are disproportionately poor and minority people.

Democrats in charge: wealthy people who say gratuitously mean things about other people might get boycotted

I usually like you Wulaw, but this is absolutely fucking insane and makes it very hard to draw any conclusion other than you don’t care about black and brown people. You’re clearly more worried about some rich white people facing social opprobrium for stating what liberals consider to be unacceptable opinions than you are about black people being fucking lynched for stating what conservatives consider to be an unacceptable opinion (which is merely that black lives matter).

Black people were dying in police custody under Obama, in liberal states run by liberals- look at the death of the guy in Baltimore- there wasn’t a single republican involved in any jurisdiction that guy was under (from city council district up to potus).  People have been dying at more or less the same numbers for years and decades, regardless of which party has the White House, but overwhelmingly in places controlled by the Democrats. You seem to be under the impression, wrongly in my opinion, that this is in some way a political issue where as I happen to believe it’s a failing in the human heart. 

I don’t actually care about JK getting shit on- though I think she’s cool and I love her creation of HP- I think she’d probably point and laugh as people who said stuff I agree with get got by the same tactics being used against her.  What I care about is more fundamental for our system and way of life. I don’t think America can exist without the ability to say something that might be considered, by someone somewhere, to be regressive, without the cancellation of that person. It’s deeper than JK- she is literally just a for example I used bc it’s been in the news the last week and she’s a lefty. 

This gets solved the moment we all see each other as human beings, all of intrinsic worth. For me, as a matter of faith, any time I see a fellow human being as something less than another person fearfully and wonderfully made by my creator that is so loved that he sent his son to die for them and redeem them I’ve failed. 

And I fail a lot!  Because I’m human. But that’s the framework for fixing this whole thing- sewing each other as equally worthy of love- not shouting down someone else who disagrees with you and calling them less than human. One way exacerbates a problem and the other way fixed it. 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I happen to think that there’s not much more dangerous for the American body politic, long term, than a normalization of cancel culture and an inability to brook opposing viewpoints. 

Conservative white man gravely concerned about conservative white men being publicly shamed for holding antequated, racist, and oppressive views.

This shocking story, and more news at 9.

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradInATX

[wildcat09 29353]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Conservative white man gravely concerned about conservative white men being publicly shamed for holding antequated, racist, and oppressive views.

This shocking story and more news at 9.

Well yeah, that’s worse than black people being lynched because black people being lynched happens all the time, while conservative white people aren’t used to having their views publicly challenged.

I’m not sure Wulaw could’ve given us a better example of what BLM is protesting against if he’d tried.

[BradInATX 9208]

BTW, @Wulaw Horn, just to address a couple of points:

- I know you've said you didn't vote for Trump. I don't believe you, but even if I did, at this point, abstaining or voting third party is just as bad. If you're not watching what Trump is doing and going "Biden might not be anywhere near me on policy, but I've got to do what I need to in order to stop the damage Trump is doing", then you're enabling him. Of course, I suspect that you are less worried about that than you are about white people getting their feelings hurt on Twitter, given that you think that's the most important issue of our time. Feeling like white people are being marginalized and victimized is a pillar of the Trump platform, so you very obviously in some ways agree and empathize with him.

- Regarding cancel culture, of course everyone knows that at times it is taken to the extreme and can definitely be taken too far. Especially on Twitter. But the statement of "it's one of the most important issues or our time" (or whatever you said) is so beyond ridiculous that it deserves mockery. The corporatization of our government, wealth inequality, healthcare, government corruption, voter suppression. All of these things are happening. But where your energy is focused is on people making you feel bad on Twitter.

That doesn't feel like someone who should be taken seriously. 

It could be useful to make a place for folks like you and Axiom of Choice who are upset that they, as middle class white men, are being persecuted. Somewhere where you don't feel hurt and abused by text on your screen from anonymous people of color online. Somewhere you can lament that those of you who have supported anti-intellectualism and celebrated the "ownership" of liberals can lament that nobody wants to have an intellectual conversation with you. Some sort of "safe space", if you will.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradInATX

[NameAlreadyInUse 5112]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I happen to think that there’s not much more dangerous for the American body politic, long term, than a normalization of cancel culture and an inability to brook opposing viewpoints. 

I’d actually even use Trump as an example of why this is so, even. He was elected. Tax reform was just about all that was passed legislatively. For good or ill that’s just regular, run of the mill, mainline policy- not some radical departure from normal policy. 

He then got skull fucked in the midterms and is fixing to get routed in 2020. Basically exactly how America course corrects whenever we do something that doesn’t work out how we’d like it to. 

Cancel culture is different. You don’t dust yourself off from that, imo. Once a person is marginalized or made to be an unperson that sticks. Forever. 

Like I said- maybe I’m wrong. But I don’t like where this is headed. 

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking back to conservative cancel culture, where I couldn't walk into a bar and order a drink.  I wasn't allowed to have a job in the government, and if I got caught having sex, my name and address was published in the newspaper so I could be blacklisted.  All because I'm gay.  It encouraged people like me to go into hiding and not to be authentic in our public lives.  Same was true of the commies during the red scare.  What the people you are talking about will have to learn how to do is the same thing we did, and that's to keep their fucking mouth shut when they have unpopular opinions.  So what you are worried about is nothing new in America, the target audience of who has to learn to be quiet has simply changed, and the implied threat of government force is being removed.  

I don't disagree with you, by the way, that this isn't a great thing.  However, there are 2 things that need to be called out. #1  This is nothing new in America, though the examples i'm providing are the government enforcing cancel culture, like they tried to cancel the gays and the commies above.  And #2, I have the right as an American not to support financially those people that I find repugnant, and I'll continue to do so.  I've got to tell you I'm much more comfortable with this being something that a bunch of millennials are doing on social media where I can choose to participate or ignore, rather than the government making the decision for me.

[BradInATX 9208]

34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well yeah, that’s worse than black people being lynched because black people being lynched happens all the time, while conservative white people aren’t used to having their views publicly challenged.

I’m not sure Wulaw could’ve given us a better example of what BLM is protesting against if he’d tried.

 

Yeah. The fact that a bunch of white people who have spent last four years cheering for anti-intellect and socially regressive childishness actually think that "cancel culture is one of the biggest problems with our culture today" shows that we're really, really far away from being where we need to be. It's so absurd and ironic that it's almost hard to believe people actually hold that opinion. And yet here we are.

[hayden_horn 11362]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I happen to think that there’s not much more dangerous for the American body politic, long term, than a normalization of cancel culture and an inability to brook opposing viewpoints. 

I’d actually even use Trump as an example of why this is so, even. He was elected. Tax reform was just about all that was passed legislatively. For good or ill that’s just regular, run of the mill, mainline policy- not some radical departure from normal policy. 

He then got skull fucked in the midterms and is fixing to get routed in 2020. Basically exactly how America course corrects whenever we do something that doesn’t work out how we’d like it to. 

Cancel culture is different. You don’t dust yourself off from that, imo. Once a person is marginalized or made to be an unperson that sticks. Forever. 

Like I said- maybe I’m wrong. But I don’t like where this is headed. 

@NameAlreadyInUse already really touched on this, but cancel culture originated with the conservatives. this country has tried to cancel black people, asian folks, hispanics, muslims, you name it, we've tried to cancel them. one could argue we effectively canceled the native american culture. conservatives have tried to cancels gay people, trans people, etc. hell, conservatives sponsor gay conversion camps in order to cancel the gay in people!

and even in government, the senate runs cancel culture as a matter of course. they canceled merrick garlard, they've effectively canceled any kind of governance, as bills just languish on mitch mcconnell's desk. 

one of your posts pointed out that this is more akin to the french revolution, and you were fucking right. you can look at the society that preceded the guillotine, and you saw an extremely disenfranchised lower class, massive wealth disparity, protests crushed by armed soldiers, etc. these exact things are fomenting today. the rich are getting richer while working class wages stagnate. yet the rent is going up, costs of everything going up, and the rich get a massive tax cut.  the only thing we are missing is a monarch, but we have a president who fancies himself as such:

with borgia tendencies even. i know they were spanish, but they were still papal despots.

with trump in office upending all manner of social contracts, it's no wonder that now is the time that people are standing up, saying "enough!"

it's happened time and again throughout history: brutal or unfair regimes only exist as long as the public forget that they outnumber all the people in power. and part of cancel culture is a direct rebuttal of the status quo. that's called reaping the whirlwind. 

i think it's also why we see such a stark divide and why, by and large, conservatives have switched teams or otherwise abandoned this board. supporting this presidency must be exhausting. i can understand why people have tucked tail and run off.

Edited June 15, 2020 by hayden_horn

[NameAlreadyInUse 5112]

41 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

BTW, @Wulaw Horn, just to address a couple of points:

- I know you've said you didn't vote for Trump.

 

In fairness to Wulaw, he and I disagree wholeheartedly on many issues, but he's one of the few conservatives left on this site that has always come to the table in good faith, and I'd take him at his word about Trump.  Based on what I know of his ideals and what he was saying during the last presidential election, Trump is as repugnant to him as he is to you and me.  Maybe not for exactly the same reasons, but repugnant nonetheless. 

I think there is some privilege in where he's coming from, not realizing that this is a time honored American tradition, it's just been his team historically that was doing the deciding on what was worth canceling, and now he's seeing that he may no longer be in the driver's seat and that's a bit scary to him, but I don't think he's coming from a place of malice in his arguments.  

And @Wulaw Horn I read gay news every day, and I've seen that there is some shit going down around JK Rowling, however, I don't care enough about what she thinks on anything except maybe the Harry Potter universe to have clicked on any links about it.  I think maybe what you are actually asking for is for people to quit being busy bodies about the non-related to business ideas that they may hold.  I'll go ahead and tell you that humans are busy bodies by nature, all you have to do is live in a small town for awhile to understand that, and I don't think your desire is reasonable for that reason.

[Goredho 17400]

23 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wow, you really need to take the stick out of your brain....  Yep it's aaaaaall the GOP.....  the DNC is clean as the driven snow....  Grow up brah.

The DNC has a lot of problems that I would like to see rectified.  But the GOP is in control of the Presidency, the Senate and the Supreme Court and has stacked the rest of the judiciary.  America on its present course is headed toward its downfall as a western democratic superpower.  One party is at the wheel and steering us that way.  It is not the DNC.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Goredho

[kevwun 15777]

Of course Wulaw is still gonna blame the liberals while Trump and Republicans burn the country down.

[BradInATX 9208]

40 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

In fairness to Wulaw, he and I disagree wholeheartedly on many issues, but he's one of the few conservatives left on this site that has always come to the table in good faith, and I'd take him at his word about Trump.  Based on what I know of his ideals and what he was saying during the last presidential election, Trump is as repugnant to him as he is to you and me.  Maybe not for exactly the same reasons, but repugnant nonetheless. 

I think there is some privilege in where he's coming from, not realizing that this is a time honored American tradition, it's just been his team historically that was doing the deciding on what was worth canceling, and now he's seeing that he may no longer be in the driver's seat and that's a bit scary to him, but I don't think he's coming from a place of malice in his arguments.  

And @Wulaw Horn I read gay news every day, and I've seen that there is some shit going down around JK Rowling, however, I don't care enough about what she thinks on anything except maybe the Harry Potter universe to have clicked on any links about it.  I think maybe what you are actually asking for is for people to quit being busy bodies about the non-related to business ideas that they may hold.  I'll go ahead and tell you that humans are busy bodies by nature, all you have to do is live in a small town for awhile to understand that, and I don't think your desire is reasonable for that reason.

 

Yeah, I'm probably directing more of an anti-Trump focus at @Wulaw Horn than he deserves. I apologize for that Wulaw, you sort of got caught up in two not-quite parallel trains of thought. Just started with me replying to your post. 

But it's still a conservative white man who is upset that he and his peers are getting a tiny, tiny taste of the type of oppression and marginalization that they've put upon people of color, LGBTQ people, poor people, and women for centuries. So whether he's Trump or Libertarian or whatever, it doesn't make the statement that "cancel culture is the biggest problem facing our culture today!" any less ridiculous and myopic. It's the same exact thing as that NYPD union boss giving the speech crying that people were judging the cops unfairly and treating them like animals. It's surrealistic and almost incomprehensible in it's absurdity.

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

General discussion on changes in online discussion over the past decades immediately prompts the mindless "white conservatives don't care about brown people" reflex.  This simple rhetorical tactic is employed because it can be employed by anyone without giving any thought or effort at all.  If you attack the moral character and intentions of the messenger, you don't even need to address their points. 

The white liberals love the brown people of the world so much.  They are their righteous guardians and protectors.  Except they didn't care to protect them from drone strikes during the Obama years.  And they seldom address the largest factor impacting the black community, which is fatherless/single parent households.  And they care so much about the ~100k brown people who will die from CV, but they don't care about the 500K brown people who die every year from malaria that could largely be prevented with simple things like mosquito nets.  It's almost as if they only care about brown people when it is politically expedient for them to do so.  

 

"I am the most intellectual intellectual that's every intellectualed! Just look at all of my big words, plebes! *twirls mustache*"

"Also, here are a bunch of talking points regurgitated directly from Rush and Fox News"

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradInATX

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking back to conservative cancel culture, where I couldn't walk into a bar and order a drink.  I wasn't allowed to have a job in the government, and if I got caught having sex, my name and address was published in the newspaper so I could be blacklisted.  All because I'm gay.  It encouraged people like me to go into hiding and not to be authentic in our public lives.  Same was true of the commies during the red scare.  What the people you are talking about will have to learn how to do is the same thing we did, and that's to keep their fucking mouth shut when they have unpopular opinions.  So what you are worried about is nothing new in America, the target audience of who has to learn to be quiet has simply changed, and the implied threat of government force is being removed.  

I don't disagree with you, by the way, that this isn't a great thing.  However, there are 2 things that need to be called out. #1  This is nothing new in America, though the examples i'm providing are the government enforcing cancel culture, like they tried to cancel the gays and the commies above.  And #2, I have the right as an American not to support financially those people that I find repugnant, and I'll continue to do so.  I've got to tell you I'm much more comfortable with this being something that a bunch of millennials are doing on social media where I can choose to participate or ignore, rather than the government making the decision for me.

Hey man, glad to see you weigh in on the subject- thanks a lot.  I hear what you are saying.  I actually think about you, a lot, when I think about issues.  You've certainly changed my perspective or given me something to think about a lot more than pretty much anyone on this board throughout the years.  You are what I was thinking/talking about with winning a battle of ideas and not shout down your enemy's.

Like, for example, Brad called me a liar and my eyes glazed over and I stopped reading.  If he knew me IRL (and he's welcome to at any time PM me and I will drive my RV over for a beer) he'd know that I irritate people in my friend and family circle all the time by telling them Trump is a bad dude not worthy of support.  My aunt and uncle who I dearly love in GA were arguing over which biblical figure he was more like- David or Moses and I told them Nebecanezur.  That shut that debate up.  But yeah, you've always been open and honest and human and that's certainly a more winning argument than those who choose, instead, to dehumanize.  

Thank you for that- I'm not sure if I've ever told you that or not (maybe once on the old site)?  And that's not to say I agree with you or give you some manner of exulted status b/c you are gay- or that I think you speak for the entire community or should or any of that other nonsense people get hung up on.  So  yeah, thanks man.

[wildcat09 29353]

1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

In fairness to Wulaw, he and I disagree wholeheartedly on many issues, but he's one of the few conservatives left on this site that has always come to the table in good faith, and I'd take him at his word about Trump.  Based on what I know of his ideals and what he was saying during the last presidential election, Trump is as repugnant to him as he is to you and me.  Maybe not for exactly the same reasons, but repugnant nonetheless. 

I think there is some privilege in where he's coming from, not realizing that this is a time honored American tradition, it's just been his team historically that was doing the deciding on what was worth canceling, and now he's seeing that he may no longer be in the driver's seat and that's a bit scary to him, but I don't think he's coming from a place of malice in his arguments.  

And @Wulaw Horn I read gay news every day, and I've seen that there is some shit going down around JK Rowling, however, I don't care enough about what she thinks on anything except maybe the Harry Potter universe to have clicked on any links about it.  I think maybe what you are actually asking for is for people to quit being busy bodies about the non-related to business ideas that they may hold.  I'll go ahead and tell you that humans are busy bodies by nature, all you have to do is live in a small town for awhile to understand that, and I don't think your desire is reasonable for that reason.

Yeah, Wulaw is possibly the only good-faith old-school conservative who still basically identifies as such on the board. Maybe TwiceHorn too, but I'm not really sure how he'd describe his politics now.  I think Wulaw's got some huge blind spots but I truly missed his contributions while he was gone. 

I do think the fear about the French Revolution is somewhat telling about one (or more) of those blind spots. Despite the reputation it's gained, the French Revolution was relatively bloodless. Compared to many other revolutions, basically any European colonial project in Africa or Asia, or even just a day of covid in the United States, the Revolution killed a rather small number of people. People today don't fear a replay of the French Revolution because of how horrible it was in itself, they fear a replay because the Revolution killed the king and overthrew the entire social order. The social order that got overthrown was absolutely worse and more despotic and more violent against more people than the Revolution, but it was the natural state of things to the people on top and they didn't really care about what horrors the system they profited from enacted on people beneath them.

What we're currently experiencing is also a little similar to how the Haitian Revolution scared the ever living shit out of white people in the United States. When slaveowners realized the danger of slave revolts they didn't change their ways to try to improve conditions of slaves, they substantially increased their brutality against slaves. We're seeing similar behavior now from the police and from mediocre white dipshits who realize that if whiteness doesn't confer something special upon them in society they'd be fucking worthless. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by wildcat09

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

46 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

@NameAlreadyInUse already really touched on this, but cancel culture originated with the conservatives. this country has tried to cancel black people, asian folks, hispanics, muslims, you name it, we've tried to cancel them. one could argue we effectively canceled the native american culture. conservatives have tried to cancels gay people, trans people, etc. hell, conservatives sponsor gay conversion camps in order to cancel the gay in people!

and even in government, the senate runs cancel culture as a matter of course. they canceled merrick garlard, they've effectively canceled any kind of governance, as bills just languish on mitch mcconnell's desk. 

one of your posts pointed out that this is more akin to the french revolution, and you were fucking right. you can look at the society that preceded the guillotine, and you saw an extremely disenfranchised lower class, massive wealth disparity, protests crushed by armed soldiers, etc. these exact things are fomenting today. the rich are getting richer while working class wages stagnate. yet the rent is going up, costs of everything going up, and the rich get a massive tax cut.  the only thing we are missing is a monarch, but we have a president who fancies himself as such:

with borgia tendencies even. i know they were spanish, but they were still papal despots.

with trump in office upending all manner of social contracts, it's no wonder that now is the time that people are standing up, saying "enough!"

it's happened time and again throughout history: brutal or unfair regimes only exist as long as the public forget that they outnumber all the people in power. and part of cancel culture is a direct rebuttal of the status quo. that's called reaping the whirlwind. 

i think it's also why we see such a stark divide and why, by and large, conservatives have switched teams or otherwise abandoned this board. supporting this presidency must be exhausting. i can understand why people have tucked tail and run off.

I know cancel culture was on the side of the conservatives once upon a time.  I said as much when I said in the 60's (and obviously before) liberalism great push was to hear all viewpoints while the conservatives didn't want that to happen.

And no shit on the trump stuff man- there's a reason I said French revolution.  And that acknowledges excesses of previous regime, the clap back that's a cleansing, and then the purging of everyone not in 100% lockstep.  That's what I think is coming.  Yeah, it's not fucking great.  That's what I'm saying. I picked the historical time period for a reason, and that acknowledges all sides. 

[kevwun 15777]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, Wulaw is possibly the only good-faith old-school conservative who still basically identifies as such on the board. Maybe TwiceHorn too, but I'm not really sure how he'd describe his politics now.  I think Wulaw's got some huge blind spots but I truly missed his contributions while he was gone. 

I do think the fear about the French Revolution is someone telling about one (or more) of those blind spots. Despite the reputation it's gained, the French Revolution was relatively bloodless. Compared to many other revolutions, basically any European colonial project in Africa or Asia, or even just a day of covid in the United States, the Revolution killed a rather small number of people. People today don't fear a replay of the French Revolution because of how horrible it was in itself, they fear a replay because the Revolution killed the king and overthrew the entire social order. The social order that got overthrown was absolutely worse and more despotic and more violent against more people than the Revolution, but it was the natural state of things to the people on top and they didn't really care about what horrors the system they profited from enacted on people beneath them.

What we're currently experiencing is also a little similar to how the Haitian Revolution scared the ever living shit out of white people in the United States. When slaveowners realized the danger of slave revolts they didn't change their ways to try to improve conditions of slaves, they substantially increased their brutality against slaves. We're seeing similar behavior now from the police and from mediocre white dipshits who realize that if whiteness doesn't confer something special upon them in society they'd be fucking worthless. 

You have to include Napoleon and almost 30 years of world war with it.