Welcome to the American Inquistion

[Dahobbs 17654]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

What have morons ever accomplished?

I don't know, what have you accomplished?

[DDD Dad 14347]

8 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Christ, I wish I had read the Seattle thread before I even bothered over here.   You all are insane and hopeless.  Adios until football season comes along.

See you on the other side.  Be sure to let us know your new username.

[Jack Straw 2954]

8 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Christ, I wish I had read the Seattle thread before I even bothered over here.   You all are insane and hopeless.  Adios until football season comes along.

well, bye

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Are you saying that system is still in place?  If it is it is the most piss poor racist system any racists on the face of the earth have ever conceived.  The  same system that has produced the Congressional Black Caucus which has been in place as long as I can remember, an African-American on the Supreme Court for every year I have been alive, a country today in which Africans are the fastest rising sector of immigrants, a country four years removed from the second term of an African-American president.  If only our system was as bad at spending tax payers money as it is at being racist.

And that isn't even what I am railing against.  I am railing against the idea that dissenting opinions and ideas must be wiped off the face of society.  I am railing against the idea that anything, anywhere in the world in the form of a statue, a television program, a movie, the name of a sports team, the name of a band, any plant, animal or mineral that may possibly, theoretically, conceivably, if you go 85 million degrees of Kevin Bacon have dinged any one of the seven billion people on earth's feelings must be removed from society and from history.  This is absolute stupidity and anyone that can't see it are morons.  Go ahead call me a racist all you want.  You're wrong but I will never convince you of it and frankly I don't give a fuck.  If I have to pick one over the other I would rather be considered a racist than a moron.  At least there are examples in history of racists accomplishing something (hello Woodrow Wilson, D.W. Griffith, and, in your eyes, probably everyone that ever signed the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution).  What have morons ever accomplished?

What you need to understand is that you are now defined as the fringe. You may beat your chest at the thought of being fringe, equating it somehow to being a rare person to really know what it going on in the world, but no, you are the extreme. You admittedly frequent spaces with others who reenforce your fringe ideas but when exposed to dissenting opinion, your ideals collapse. Think about it for more than 10 seconds and you should find that maybe your ideals aren't based on reality. 

But again, rail against those who see the holes of what you stand for. Complain and obfuscate. Run off to your safe space to feel better about your false reality. No one here will put up with it anymore. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Dude just wants some attention, I don’t see why we have to keep treating him as a serious poster. 

[Tom 2959]

14 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Christ, I wish I had read the Seattle thread before I even bothered over here.   You all are insane and hopeless.  Adios until football season comes along.

 

That's cute that you think you'll be around in football season.  I look forward to the hot football takes of 2EM2AWesome.  Hopefully you're far less annoying about football than politics.  

[elfenix 34331]

anyone else imagine 10 year old emaw calling into the country music station in north bugtussle, kansas, telling them they had to play the dixie chicks?

[Sawbonz 27583]

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Sorry, libtard, but this has been debunked. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to-avoid-healthy-omega-6-fats

Yeah, well, wild caught still has a better 3:6 ratio. Plus I can feel superior when I check out at Central Market

[Sawbonz 27583]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Are you saying that system is still in place?  If it is it is the most piss poor racist system any racists on the face of the earth have ever conceived.  The  same system that has produced the Congressional Black Caucus which has been in place as long as I can remember, an African-American on the Supreme Court for every year I have been alive, a country today in which Africans are the fastest rising sector of immigrants, a country four years removed from the second term of an African-American president.  If only our system was as bad at spending tax payers money as it is at being racist.

And that isn't even what I am railing against.  I am railing against the idea that dissenting opinions and ideas must be wiped off the face of society.  I am railing against the idea that anything, anywhere in the world in the form of a statue, a television program, a movie, the name of a sports team, the name of a band, any plant, animal or mineral that may possibly, theoretically, conceivably, if you go 85 million degrees of Kevin Bacon have dinged any one of the seven billion people on earth's feelings must be removed from society and from history.  This is absolute stupidity and anyone that can't see it are morons.  Go ahead call me a racist all you want.  You're wrong but I will never convince you of it and frankly I don't give a fuck.  If I have to pick one over the other I would rather be considered a racist than a moron.  At least there are examples in history of racists accomplishing something (hello Woodrow Wilson, D.W. Griffith, and, in your eyes, probably everyone that ever signed the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution).  What have morons ever accomplished?

That system didn't integrate my hometown school district until 1982. If you truly can't see that there is still a large disparity in opportunity among various races in this country then yes I would say you are a moron. I don't think you are a moron, though, I think you are deliberately obtuse

Also I negged your OP not because I disagree with most of your takes (I do), but rather because it is a whiny titty baby post.  Dissenting opinions should not be wiped out in my opinion, but they should be refuted, and if ridiculous they should be held out for public scorn

My hometown school district didn't integrate until 1982. The (previously all black) middle school I started at that year should have been condemned. As it was, within the first week of white kids going home and telling their parents about the conditions, there was an army of contractors in that place for almost the whole school year, and it got an even more extensive remodel the next summer.  Children had had to put up with those conditions for years. That's just one small example.  Black children begin to have negative feelings about their skin color in preschool. Do you realize how fucked up that is?  You can't fix 400 plus years of disparity in a few decades. Realizing that doesn't make it your fault it makes you human

 

 

[TornACL 7722]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

 

And that isn't even what I am railing against.  I am railing against the idea that dissenting opinions and ideas must be wiped off the face of society.  

You have a long history of lazy generalizations and general confusion of issues. I would suggest that you spend more time thinking, if you are capable, and less time "railing".

That said, let me attempt again to enlighten you. Dissenting opinions that add value to the general discourse should always be given their fair and proper voice. Part of the reason we have evolved above the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability (at least some of us) to distinguish, quite quickly, between healthy debate and absolute hogwash. 

Racism is neither a "dissenting opinion" nor should it be treated as if it is somehow a constructive addition to public discourse. Yes, it should be eradicated and wiped off the face of the earth. Through violence if necessary. 

If you're arguing that you're not racist but that you don't believe racism is a serious issue, then I'd say that your "dissenting idea" has been articulated in various forms for 100 years, has repeatedly and roundly proven to be a completely ridiculous take,  and is a tool of the wilfully ignorant or the hopelessly stupid. 

If you think that's an unfair dismissal of a dissenting opinion, that's fine. There comes a point where an idea has been dunked on for so long that it loses its place at the public discourse table.

That's not society's fault, that's the fitting end in the life cycle of a dying viewpoint. I hope and believe that's where we are with some of these tired notions that have been trotted out each time we stand at a crossroads regarding a more fair and just society. 

 

[elfenix 34331]

52 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Christ, I wish I had read the Seattle thread before I even bothered over here.   You all are insane and hopeless.  Adios until football season comes along.

wait what is wrong with the seattle thread?

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Christ, I wish I had read the Seattle thread before I even bothered over here.   You all are insane and hopeless.  Adios until football season comes along.

 

[F250 28814]

17 hours ago, BradInATX said:

This recipe for broiled salmon is fresh fish fillets coated in olive oil, garlic and herbs, then broiled until browned. A quick and easy dinner option that’s on the table in less than 20 minutes!

I serve salmon at least once a week, some of our favorite recipes include honey garlic salmon, pan seared salmon, and this simple yet satisfying broiled version.

 

My whole family enjoys salmon – it’s quick to make, loaded with nutrition and tastes great. This broiled salmon recipe doesn’t get any easier – the salmon fillets are smothered with a blend of olive oil, seasonings, garlic and herbs, then they take a quick trip through the broiler to get all browned and caramelized. This recipe is simple enough for a busy week night, yet elegant enough to serve to company!

HOW DO YOU MAKE BROILED SALMON?

It is amazing how quick and easy it is to make delicious broiled salmon. Simply whisk together olive oil, brown sugar, soy sauce, lemon zest, lemon juice, parsley, thyme, salt, pepper and garlic in a bowl. Place the salmon in the bowl and coat the salmon with the sauce. Put the salmon on a sheet pan and broil at 500 degrees F for 10-15 minutes until the salmon is opaque and browned on top. Remove the salmon from the oven, garnish with chopped parsley and lemon wedges and serve.

WHAT IS THE BEST TEMPERATURE TO BROIL SALMON?

The key to broiled salmon is high heat from the top of the oven to get that lovely caramelized exterior. You can broil salmon at the temperature of your oven’s broil setting. Most broilers are set at 500-550 degrees F, but if your broiler is set at 450 degrees F, that will also work. Just be sure to use a high heat for the best results.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BROIL AND BAKE?

Broiling in its simplest form is high heat from above. Broiling activates only one heating element in an oven above the food. Broiling is great for thin meats that can cook quickly, crisping breads or toppings and melting cheese over a cooked dish. When broiling salmon, radiant heat from the top of the oven caramelizes sugars and amino acids in the salmon. The heat browns and crisps the top of the salmon unlocking the flavor.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN SALMON IS DONE?

You can tell when salmon is cooked when the flesh of the salmon goes from translucent to opaque, and the salmon flakes easily with a fork. You also want to see browning on top of the salmon to know that the flavors have been released.

BROILED SALMON VARIATIONS

I typically prepare this recipe as-is, but you can easily customize the flavors to your family’s tastes.

• Cilantro Lime: Use lime zest and lime juice instead of lemon, and substitute cilantro instead of thyme and parsley for a fresh and zesty flavor.
• Mexican Style: Follow the marinade recipe in my chicken burrito bowls and coat the salmon with that marinade.
• Asian Style: Use green onions instead of thyme, also add 2 teaspoons of minced ginger and 1 tablespoon of toasted sesame oil to the marinade.

This simple salmon recipe is as easy to make as it is delicious. It is sure to be a hit in your house, and it’s one of my go-to dinner options!

MORE GREAT SALMON RECIPES

• Salmon Teriyaki
• Salmon in Foil with Lemon and Dill
• Grilled Salmon with Garlic and Herbs
• Greek Salmon Salad
• Salmon Foil Packets

 

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5 from 18 votes

Broiled Salmon

 

This recipe for broiled salmon is fresh fish fillets coated in olive oil, garlic and herbs, then broiled until browned. A quick and easy dinner option that's on the table in less than 20 minutes!

 

 CourseMain

 CuisineAmerican

 Keywordbroiled salmon

 

 Prep Time5 minutes

 Cook Time15 minutes

 Total Time20 minutes

 

 Servings

 Calories274kcal

 AuthorSara Welch

INGREDIENTS

• 4 salmon fillets 4-6 ounces each
• 4 tablespoons olive oil
• 1 1/2 tablespoons brown sugar
• 1 1/2 tablespoons soy sauce
• 1/2 teaspoon lemon zest
• 2 teaspoons lemon juice
• 2 teaspoons chopped fresh parsley plus more for garnish
• 1 1/2 teaspoons fresh thyme leaves
• 1/2 teaspoon salt
• 1/4 teaspoon pepper
• 1 teaspoon minced garlic
• lemon wedges for serving
• cooking spray

INSTRUCTIONS

• Preheat the broiler. Coat a sheet pan with cooking spray.
• Place the olive oil, brown sugar, soy sauce, lemon zest, lemon juice, parsley, thyme, salt, pepper and garlic in a bowl. Whisk to combine.
• Add the salmon, toss to coat evenly.
• Place the salmon fillets on the prepared sheet pan.
• Broil for 10-15 minutes or until salmon is browned and opaque.
• Garnish with chopped parsley and lemon wedges, then serve.

NUTRITION

Calories: 274kcal | Carbohydrates: 4g | Protein: 23g | Fat: 17g | Saturated Fat: 2g | Cholesterol: 62mg | Sodium: 592mg | Potassium: 565mg | Sugar: 4g | Vitamin A: 95IU | Vitamin 😄 2.2mg | Calcium: 18mg | Iron: 1.2mg

Had this for dinner last night.

[F250 28814]

So how many of you heathens in this thread eat farm raised salmon?

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

So how many of you heathens in this thread eat farm raised salmon?

I don't, I just wanted to own the libtards

[Goredho 17413]

17 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

Believe exactly like we do or you will be burned at the stake.  I briefly thought about staying out of the shit hole that is the Cloak Room because of this prevailing attitude but this whole groupthink plague is worth fighting against.  I know it's not a popular stance to take here but a man who was slightly smarter than even me once said  "Just because something is popular does not mean it is right and just because something is right does not mean it is popular." (Albert Einstein)

I think what this boils down to is that your cognitive dissonance is becoming unbearable.  You can't be wrong in your support of institutionalized or normalized racism, you have to be being persecuted for your difference of opinion.  Because that lets you see yourself as something other than a deplorable piece of shit when you look in the mirror.

Your movement is dying.  I hope you enjoyed your brief joy ride at the wheel of America.

[F250 28814]

Just now, Goredho said:

I think what this boils down to is that your cognitive dissonance is becoming unbearable.  You can't be wrong in your support of institutionalized or normalized racism, you have to be being persecuted for your difference of opinion.  Because that lets you see yourself as something other than a deplorable piece of shit when you look in the mirror.

Your movement is dying.  I hope you enjoyed your brief joy ride at the wheel of America.

[Gatorubet 30287]

You have a long history of lazy generalizations and general confusion of issues. I would suggest that you spend more time thinking, if you are capable, and less time "railing".
That said, let me attempt again to enlighten you. Dissenting opinions that add value to the general discourse should always be given their fair and proper voice. Part of the reason we have evolved above the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability (at least some of us) to distinguish, quite quickly, between healthy debate and absolute hogwash. 
Racism is neither a "dissenting opinion" nor should it be treated as if it is somehow a constructive addition to public discourse. Yes, it should be eradicated and wiped off the face of the earth. Through violence if necessary. 
If you're arguing that you're not racist but that you don't believe racism is a serious issue, then I'd say that your "dissenting idea" has been articulated in various forms for 100 years, has repeatedly and roundly proven to be a completely ridiculous take,  and is a tool of the wilfully ignorant or the hopelessly stupid. 
If you think that's an unfair dismissal of a dissenting opinion, that's fine. There comes a point where an idea has been dunked on for so long that it loses its place at the public discourse table.
That's not society's fault, that's the fitting end in the life cycle of a dying viewpoint. I hope and believe that's where we are with some of these tired notions that have been trotted out each time we stand at a crossroads regarding a more fair and just society. 
 

Damn. Outstanding post.

[Poolflood 845]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:14 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dude just wants some attention, I don’t see why we have to keep treating him as a serious poster. 

Well there's a couple idiots who consider you a serious poster.  

[TornACL 7722]

39 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Can you link to any examples of healthy debate among dissenting opinions on this forum?

I presume you are able to read and comprehend the English language. There are quite a few of them actually, if you're willing to cut through the posts of hysterical idiots claiming that groupthink is silencing their awesome takes. 

I wouldn't suggest starting with this thread since it was started by a well known disingenuous idiot. 

That's why I enjoy this place. Sure you have a bunch of idiots spouting garbage, but there are plenty of people thinking hard before they post. Many of them have challenged my beliefs and made me think harder about where I am coming from, and in some cases to look up more info to learn more. 

Given that you've presumably been unable to find any of this on your own, I am not sure what spoonfeeding you examples would accomplish. 

[TornACL 7722]

Just now, Axiom of Choice said:

I can't find any good examples, either.  I'm sure there are some, though.  Enough posts are made here that it's likely few fleeting exchanges of the type exist.  But very few by percentage.

That's on you my man. 

Like I said, I wasn't put on this earth to hand you things to read and think about. It's there. 

[TornACL 7722]

30 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I'm sure it is.  Just can't be linked because it is not your life's purpose to do so.  That makes sense.  If you ever do happen across any and can find a way to incorporate it into your fundamental reason for being on this planet, feel free to share it with your fellow earth dweller.    

You gotta make the effort too big guy. I suggest you put the cynicism aside, it's unbecoming. 

[Gatorubet 30287]

12 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

It is very difficult to get into a good faith, detailed point-counter point discussion with people who hold opposing views on the internet these days.  Very few, if any, such discussions are had here.  It's true that effort is sometimes put into posts, but when effort beyond a single quip, meme, or retweet is given on this forum and elsewhere, it is merely invested into articulating view points among like-minded people.   

It depends on the content.   For example, if someone wants to argue that Trump is not divisive or dishonest or racist, the proper response may well be, "Fuck you, cut off your balls so you can't breed."   Because there is no valid middle ground for a discussion that Trump is not divisive or dishonest or racist, and someone holding the view that Trump is not any of them is just too stupid for most of us to want to waste our time trying to educate them.  

If someone wants to discuss whether the US should spend money on the WHO - we can have a respectful discussion.      It is closer to the former situation, but there are enough nuances that an opposing view might be respectfully considered...unless the other person bases that anti-WHO view on the fact that Covid-19 is a huge hoax, and the WHO is a tool of those who want to take down President Trump, the one brilliant man who understands this pandemic.   In which case, see example 1.   

The problem lately is not the existence of alternate views.  The problem is the absence of legitimate alternate views.    Some might have the patience to debate whether Trump gave General Mattis his nickname, or if injecting bleach or Lysol is a good idea to kill a virus, but I sure don't.   See the single quip or meme response.   That is all many are worth.

 

[TornACL 7722]

44 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

 

It is very difficult to get into a good faith, detailed point-counter point discussion with people who hold opposing views on the internet these days.  Very few, if any, such discussions are had here.  It's true that effort is sometimes put into posts, but when effort beyond a single quip, meme, or retweet is given on this forum and elsewhere, it is merely invested into articulating view points among like-minded people.   

Posrep for the post. 

Don't let some bad encounters soil you completely. If you're looking for real discussion, keep it up and it will find you. Throwaway quips are less a commentary on society and more a commentary on the individual giving them. 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5114]

The reason I still post here is because I have had substantive discussions here for years now (considering the group, not the URL).  There was a time where I was arguing against the position of most on this board and we’d have discussions that would go pages and pages. Minds were changed in those discussions on both sides. 
 

There has been a change though. The people I disagreed with who were willing to get into an argument and actually discuss it have by and large gone away, and the ones that still come around are like the OP, more interested in getting a rise out of people than actually having a discussion.  That’s not always true, though. I still think @Anastasis and @triplehorn need to go ahead and fuck to get it out of their system but they seem to be able to have a mostly civil disagreement that has been going on for what feels like a million years in the COVID thread. It still happens, but there are a bunch of people now who are not expecting certain posters supporting positions in good faith because we’ve been watching them not support their arguments in good faith for years now. You seem to be asking us to go back to treating those posters as if we don’t know they aren’t arguing in good faith, and sorry, I’m just not going to do that. I’ll give them a beg and move on, because I’m hopeful We could get back to more of those discussions at some point. 
 

[elfenix 34331]

1 hour ago, Axiom of Choice said:

ok, here is a small bit of effort, although not without cynicism:

Modern internet discourse is not a game of good faith detailed discussion & debate.  It is a game of drowning out any dissension with volumes of unsubstantiated headlines, tweets, memes,  soundbites, etc.  You win this game by sheer volume, not be covering facts in detail or by listening.  

To give an example of some effort put into details, here is a post I made a few days ago on the statue removal thread.  There were some posts up thread that claimed falsehoods about Columbus and child sex slaves.  You can find those same falsehoods all over the internet with a google search.  But if one takes the time & effort to find the original source and understand it in context, they will see it is not true.  But it takes a lot of effort to get to the truth, which is drowned out in the noise of the lie being shouted.  No one needs to even bother countering the points in my post for the lie to be more influential.  The falsehood wins by volume. 

It is very difficult to get into a good faith, detailed point-counter point discussion with people who hold opposing views on the internet these days.  Very few, if any, such discussions are had here.  It's true that effort is sometimes put into posts, but when effort beyond a single quip, meme, or retweet is given on this forum and elsewhere, it is merely invested into articulating view points among like-minded people.   

is this some sort of theater of the absurd? 

first off, you're posting in an emaw thread -- there's no seeking of good faith debate here.  emaw doesn't want it.  he's demonstrated that time and time again. 

second, after claiming that there isn't any good faith debate here, you link to one that you yourself just started just two days ago and participated in.  are you in here bitching because no one went point by point trying to refute you?  no one afterward repeated any claims about columbus trafficking in girls so maybe you got your point across?  did you consider that?

further, unless i really miss my mark, no one here is tying their F150s to statues of columbus and pulling them down.  i don't think the audience here strongly holds that columbus was a child slaver.  reviewing the thread, @Gatorubet was the only person who posted about trafficking girls and you didn't bother to at him in your post.  if you wanted to have a discussion you might want to tell the people you think you're having a conversation with.  just a suggestion. 

you also ignore quite a bit of discussion about Lee and the motivations of Austin and his merry band of filibusterers in that thread.  why does that not qualify for you?

further, after you rhetorically linked the erection of the columbus circle monument to the new orleans lynchings, bolverk provided factual rebuttal to that rhetorical link. rather than demonstrating any sort of reconsideration, you shift the goalposts.  at this point you're just engaging in standard internet arguing technique. 

lastly, it's the internet.  other than a few boards with really particular (and enforced) rules, there isn't a lot of detailed discussion to be had on anything remotely political.  and even on those special boards you have false claims repeated over and over again.  if you want a detailed discussion of the historical chris colombo, you probably want to find somewhere other than a sports messageboard. maybe some place where more than 1 or 2 people have demonstrated both knowledge and a strongly held belief in that knowledge. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by elfenix

[Gatorubet 30287]

In the year 1500, Columbus wrote: “A hundred castellanoes are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand.”

Columbus, the Governor, wrote the above to his cousin at Court* and spoke of a certain sum of money for land being equal to that of a female slave.  He noted that the slave dealers were looking for 9 and 10 year olds due to high demand.  

Columbus took many indigenous people as slaves (he offered the Crown as many as they wanted), killed more, and his men took women as sex slaves.     I'm happy to be dissuaded that Governor Columbus was horrified by that news he wrote, and denounced the practice while trying to stop it.    But he didn't.  Axiom of Choice, come on down!  Money, mouth, etc.

*("Por una mujer tan bien se falla çient castellanos como por una labrança, y es mucho en uso, y ay fartos mercaderes que andan buscando muchachas, de nueve a diez son agora enprençio, de todas hedades ha de tener un bueno")

[TwiceHorn 31529]

EMAW was not a swam sock.  Kind of like his username, swam was actually on the UT swim team.  He damn near doxxed himself some years back, if he didn't completely.

EMAW is some kind of K-State thing.  The fattyfatfat hovering outside should have told ya.

I mean, I guess it could still be swam, but it would be a bizarre switch of usernames.

[Sbbruin 21866]

37 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

EMAW was not a swam sock.  Kind of like his username, swam was actually on the UT swim team.  He damn near doxxed himself some years back, if he didn't completely.

EMAW is some kind of K-State thing.  The fattyfatfat hovering outside should have told ya.

I mean, I guess it could still be swam, but it would be a bizarre switch of usernames.

No way is EMAW = swam.  I’m honestly surprised there aren’t more of these types here.  Texas is a state that may actually swing to Trump.  If not, it’ll be close.  I just wonder how many won’t admit to it.  And I am not some bleeding heart liberal Californian. I am a California Republican which is a unicorn type.  But I think trump is the worst thing that has happened to our country in a century.  He must be removed.  Period.

[Gatorubet 30287]

3 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

That is the only quote ever given to support of the accusation.

I take it that you discount the history of Columbus as Governor of Cuba and the Expedition Leader told by the contemporaneous writings of Francisco de Bobadilla and Bartolomé de las Casas.  The people who were there and who arrived soon after had knowledge of his mistreatment and murder of indigenous peoples, and wrote of it.  Hell, he got sacked for doing exactly what it is alleged that I said he did 

We do know that Columbus decided to kidnap five young male natives who had come aboard his flagship.   Per Columbus, "to take to the Sovereigns to learn our language so that it might be disclosed what is in the land.”  Then, he realized it might be a long voyage, so he sent his men to another village to kidnap women for those five men, as he thought some strange was needed to keep them happy and docile.   Per Chris:  “Afterwards I sent to a house which is in the area of the river to the west, and they brought back seven head of women, small and large and three children. I did this because the men would comport themselves better in Spain having women from their land than without them.”  Might have been nice to ask the women kidnapped if they or their husbands minded. Nahhhhhh

In Haiti, it was ordered that all Indians over age 14 surrender a quota of gold every three months. The quota could not be reached, as the island just did not have that much gold. Indians who did not meet the quota had their hands cut off.  If they fled, they were killed or sold into slavery.  You say "Columbus never killed any indigenous people."  By his own hand? No shit.   No proof of that.   Neither did Himmler.  But his men did - at his orders. Same with Columbus.

Finally, you must not trust Bartoleme de las Cases - and he loved Columbus.  Big Chris Fanboi.  He wrote that the Spanish "thought nothing of knifing Indians by tens and twenties and of cutting slices off them to test the sharpness of their blades." He recorded a story of two Spaniards who met two Arawak boys carrying parrots; the parrots were seized and the boys were beheaded "for fun." He wrote: "[O]ur work was to exasperate, ravage, kill, mangle and destroy...[Columbus] was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians...."

The King and Queen ordered Columbus to treat the natives kindly on his second expedition, and not to enslave them.  Chris responded by rounding up 12 ships worth of slaves, telling his man to tell the Crown why he was doing this. His own words:

“You must say and supplicate on my behalf to the King and Queen, our Lords, the following, Item, say to their Highnesses that because there is no language by means of which this people can understand our Holy Faith … thus are being sent with these ships the cannibals, men and women and boys and girls, which their Highnesses may order placed in the possession of persons from whom they can best learn the language...say to their Highnesses that the profit from the souls of the said cannibals would suggest the consideration that many more from here would be better and their Highnesses would lie served in this manner: that in view of the need for cattle and beasts of burden for sustaining the people who are here … their Highnesses could give license to a number of caravels sufficient to come here each year and bring the said cattle and other provision; … for which payment would be made in slaves from these cannibals.…"

IOW  yeah, they don't speak Spanish, so fuck it, here are the slaves I sent you...to profit their souls... 'cause maybe the dumb fucks can learn to understand our Holy Faith while slaving around...

If I were you I'd chill a bit on your arrogant certainty of the "lies".   We can discuss motive and credibility of his and others' writings. and all of the things that critical thinking entail.  His detractors had a motive to defame him, to be sure.   But your reliance on one Dartmouth article - and your previous post that suggests there is only "falsehoods about Columbus" is ironic.   When that text you and I quoted was written, at that very time Columbus was being sent home because he was accused of abusing the natives.  So - when he is being charged with abusing the natives do you think he will write that he was all in on abusing them - or that he will write his relative at Court and blame it on mean people that just happened to be there abusing the natives at the same time he was Governor? 

You endorse this line from the Dartmouth article: "It is clear in his writings that he wholeheartedly disavowed the sexual traffic of minor indigenous women." 

Clear? Bullshit.   Find me his contemporaneous condemnation of that evil before he was charged with being evil, and I will take a look. Columbus being a dick is not based upon one passage.  The guy was a dick who killed hundreds of thousand to millions in the worst way possible.  He was a product of his times.  And his times were flat evil.

[elfenix 34331]

2 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I discussed the subtopic I was interested in within the broader subject, which is not disingenuous.  There is no requirement to discuss every facet of a general topic to have a good faith debate.

no, there's not, but when you're dismissing the board as a place that can't have good faith debate because they're debating things other than the particular narrow point you're interested in (and particularly when you're bitching about it in a troll thread), you've lost the plot. 

2 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

The two would become linked.

anyone parsing your original statement linking columbus circle and the new orleans lynching would think the former was a response to the latter. 

 

7 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Can you link to any examples of healthy debate among dissenting opinions on this forum?

2 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Regarding your last paragraph, you seem to be restating back to me the point I was making.  

the internet generally is a complete shit show for honest discussion.  i think this board is better than most because the trolls largely stay out, having run off to DT where they can gleefully dismiss hate crimes as mostly fake, try to make WuFlu a thing, and post tweets from known propagandists for white supremacists.  occasionally one will get in his cups and come in to tell us how awesome his life is and how poor people just need to make better choices or pee down his leg bump the hillary thread.

anyway, when you repeat immortal13's mantra that you can't have a discussion in here, while you'd just been participating in one (and you've been in quite a few lengthy ontological discussions), and especially when you're bitching about it in a troll thread, i have to wonder if you're disingenuous. 

 

seems like you're getting the discussion about colombo that you wanted.  i'll read it, but i don't have any depth of knowledge or strong opinions about it so i won't be participating. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by elfenix
i tend to repeat paragraph opening words and have to watch out for it

[Bullneck 19200]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:36 PM, EMAWesome said:

Believe exactly like we do or you will be burned at the stake.  I briefly thought about staying out of the shit hole that is the Cloak Room because of this prevailing attitude but this whole groupthink plague is worth fighting against.  I know it's not a popular stance to take here but a man who was slightly smarter than even me once said  "Just because something is popular does not mean it is right and just because something is right does not mean it is popular." (Albert Einstein)

Who got the head shot?  

EMAW was such a whiny, stupid little bitch. 

[Anastasis 23481]

4 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I still think @Anastasis and @triplehorn need to go ahead and fuck to get it out of their system but they seem to be able to have a mostly civil disagreement that has been going on for what feels like a million years in the COVID thread.

Triple's promoting right out nonsense.  Not the first time he has done so on this sub by any stretch. I think that the board should call that shit out rather than let it just float by. There is one door out of four remaining.  Maybe he hits the jackpot with that one.

 

[Nivek 16979]

AOT,

As previously mentioned, message boards do not lend themselves to real world discussion formats because of their limitations.   Many of us, come here while on the shitter, taking a break from the kids, have a few minutes to kill while getting a state inspection done, or some other similar reason.   It is also why it is unusual to see posts which have multiple paragraphs outside of a few posters who spend time to sit and flesh out their discussion points.    I know little about Columbus and so I shut the fuck up and don't have a 'take' on the matter.   I do know is that people have strong feelings about it (and the Eyes of Texas) and they have a reason for it.   I also recognize that this board settles nothing. 

The part that is missing on social media discussions, in my not so humble opinion, is that there is a focus on having a take and less of a focus on seeing perspective.   It has become a debate of sorts where someone wants to win, not learn.  I prefer learning, so again, I shut the fuck up sometimes.   

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

No way is EMAW = swam.  I’m honestly surprised there aren’t more of these types here.  Texas is a state that may actually swing to Trump.  If not, it’ll be close.  I just wonder how many won’t admit to it.  And I am not some bleeding heart liberal Californian. I am a California Republican which is a unicorn type.  But I think trump is the worst thing that has happened to our country in a century.  He must be removed.  Period.

I'd say Hillary was one of the worst things, Trump is definitely in that arena, but the outsider candidate is what I want to see more of running for elected office. Institutional party candidates are the problem in the countries political life.

[BradInATX 9208]

Imagine thinking that an irrelevant failed presidential candidate is the literal worst thing to happen to our country in a century. Like actually imagine thinking that it's a valid enough statement that you're willing to put your name behind that publicly.

Continuing to control stupid white people who believe things like this is how the 1% has maintained control of the country despite having nobody's best interest in mind.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd say Hillary was one of the worst things, Trump is definitely in that arena, but the outsider candidate is what I want to see more of running for elected office. Institutional party candidates are the problem in the countries political life.

One of those points that can't be taken seriously. Clinton was one of the most heavily investigated and vetted candidates in the history of the US and found to have no disqualifying element. And yet those who rail against her were all too happy to elect someone who abhors transparency and has a long history of nefarious acts. 

There is no comparison. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

One of those points that can't be taken seriously. Clinton was one of the most heavily investigated and vetted candidates in the history of the US and found to have no disqualifying element. And yet those who rail against her were all too happy to elect someone who abhors transparency and has a long history of nefarious acts. 

There is no comparison. 

Holy fuck, she was everything wrong with politics in this country. She was the embodiment of Raymond Shaws mother, Eleanor Shaw in the Manchurian Candidate.,

 

 End of story... next topic....

Edited June 14, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Holy fuck, she was everything wrong with politics in this country.  End of story... next topic....

And Trump is.......? 

 

Also have to point out the irony of this post, juxtaposed against the general theme of this thread. Well done. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by SmokeyTheBear

[wildcat09 29376]

Onboard is a truly deranged individual.

[Sbbruin 21866]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Holy fuck, she was everything wrong with politics in this country. She was the embodiment of Raymond Shaws mother, Eleanor Shaw in the Manchurian Candidate.,

 

 End of story... next topic....

Sorry, but Trump is light years worse than anyone ever in the history of history.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

And Trump is.......? 

I already said he's horrible for American politics.  We have Trump partly because of Hillary.  She did her shit from within the system, exploiting it for her personal gain at every turn. The whole it'll be my turn next to be president was to be the culmination of her machinations.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Onboard is a truly deranged individual.

Coming from you ?  Owww.....

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Sorry, but Trump is light years worse than anyone ever in the history of history.  

Doesn't change the fact she was a horrible horrible person who should never have been allowed near the Oval Office.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I already said he's horrible for American politics.  We have Trump partly because of Hillary.  She did her shit from within the system, exploiting it for her personal gain at every turn. The whole it'll be my turn next to be president was to be the culmination of her machinations.  

You mean she played the game that the GOP has been trying to rig for years? You applaud the GOP enacting dirty laws like citizens united, but then trash the candidates who have to leverage it or else get washed out with dark money. 

Do you hate the player or the game? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

You mean she played the game that the GOP has been trying to rig for years? You applaud the GOP enacting dirty laws like citizens united, but then trash the candidates who have to leverage it or else get washed out with dark money. 

Do you hate the player or the game? 

Wow, you really need to take the stick out of your brain....  Yep it's aaaaaall the GOP.....  the DNC is clean as the driven snow....  Grow up brah.

[wildcat09 29376]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Coming from you ?  Owww.....

Doesn't change the fact she was a horrible horrible person who should never have been allowed near the Oval Office.

Well over 100,000 Americans are dead because Trump’s only response to a pandemic was to steal emergency medical supplies from states to give to his friends to sell back to the states at a huge markup. Fuck you and your “Hillary is still worse” bullshit.

Edited June 14, 2020 by wildcat09

[BradInATX 9208]

Can we not engage this stupidity please? Add him to your Facebook if you feel like your life isn't full of enough nothingheaded morons. Don't encourage it here.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wow, you really need to take the stick out of your brain....  Yep it's aaaaaall the GOP.....  the DNC is clean as the driven snow....  Grow up brah.

When it comes to voter suppression and the allowance of dark money into the voting system, yes, I put a lion share of the blame on the GOP. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Can we not engage this stupidity please? Add him to your Facebook if you feel like your life isn't full of enough nothingheaded morons. Don't encourage it here.

No. I will continue to engage until I exhaust all his counter points, or at least exhaust his paitence. Engage, don't ignore, ignorance. 

[Anastasis 23481]

The game.  Always hate the game.