Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Jcsatx 9]

33 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

The University of Texas is more than a collection of buildings. The values of the University and what they symbolize is what matters not some fucking song, not a name on a building or a statue. The University has to stand for every one of its students and faculty not just a select few. To those that fear and lament change I will simply say the pride and winning tradition of The University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid. 

Exactly.  The University is about the development of leaders.  These athletes are exemplifying The University in the most important way possible.   

[Bobby Light 76]

F the offseason

[UDontKnow 10,447]

I do like the idea of a fight song that is completely instrumental (I believe USC does that). Get a fight song with new music and move forward with the future.

[honolulu horn 6,164]

1 minute ago, Wally Pryor said:

 

And that's totally fair.   As long as there is give and take in the matter we are probably all onboard.

As it, it just feels like their is "take" in the country.    Therein lies part of the problem.

Well, that's a different topic on which we'll probably disagree. Black athletes have been "giving" a lot for the past few decades; while some have been "taking," the balance sheet undeniably tips in the direction of the university. All of that history is certainly a part of what's happening on campus now. But hoping that on the Eyes issue (and the other demands listed), good conversation and negotiations can occur. 

[Red Five 40,862]

It's. Not. Our. Fight. Song. 

[Burntcowboy 1,845]

5 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

 

[stone oak 639]

Acho is a fucking liar. I was involved with the team daily in 2010-11 and not one word was said about the Eyes being racist.

[Burntcowboy 1,845]

Not go not gonna happen. My daughters are private from all this

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

So here's a question.  Do they just not want to sing it, or not even be present for it's singing?  No raised hookem?

Fine, I guess.

I attended two University commencements on the South Mall.  At the conclusion, we sang the Eyes.  THAT is my most significant remembrance of it, especially the second one, because it was the end.

When it's done after a game, it evokes those commencements.  The commencements are the strong association I have, not singing it after games.  I'm sure others have similar sentiments.  I have seen a lot of black athletes "sing" it on Senior Day with tears in their eyes.

I'm pained that other students may have different associations.  I don't want to cause them pain.  But, part of me thinks that this is a semi-cynical political move rather than a sincere objection to what has become a dear tradition to a century's worth of students.  It is, for lack of a better term, shit-stirring.

Edited June 13, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[CycleTex87 2,972]

3 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Indeed they do....

This is from my 1963 Cactus - The show was at Gregory Gym, IIRC:

My mother has that edition of Cactus in her library. I’ll take a look next time I’m up there. 

[Helobious 9,462]

I’ve always heard of minstrel shows, but today I looked more deeply into their history. Jesus what the fuck was wrong with people back then. 

[LTtxfan 49,245]

8 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

We're going to need pictures of each to assess which one of them is right.

 

1 minute ago, Burntcowboy said:

Not go not gonna happen. My daughters are private from all this

 

Ok then these two...        (Comic Relief)

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,758]

1 hour ago, RollLeft said:

Why are you conflating these two issues but since you are, If it doesn't upset you than respect the fact that it matters to others.  Why trivialize and or minimize their opinions even if they don't affect you? Isn't that the very thing your relatives are fighting against?  These two matters are not on the same level and should not be conflated nonetheless your indifference in supporting others when it doesn't affect you is ironic.  What is right is right and that is what one should support or just be quiet.       

I'm really trying to understand the meaning behind this incoherent string of words. Can you try again? What two things am I conflating? Racial oppression with the demands of the racially oppressed?  Is your point that I am giving too much leeway to the demands of the oppressed and should instead equally weight the value a majority group ascribes to the tradition of a school song?

As I said, I don't really see significant racism in the song, but perhaps me and others in my demographic group are not in the best position to decide the matter. Some of my best memories at UT are signing that song after beating OU or at baseball super regionals with no band. But if it is offensive to the majority of the very athletes I'm supporting, why would I dismiss their opinion?  

[Alien Octopus 541]

4 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I can honestly say that until they made this request, I had no idea the history of the song.

“The University of Texas, at least originally, had very clear minstrel connections,” Gordon said. “(‘The Eyes of Texas’) was first sung and played at a minstrel show which featured performers in black face.”

https://thedailytexan.com/2018/04/17/the-eyes-of-texas-racist-tradition-or-cornerstone-of-school-sprit

I highly doubt that the song will go away, but finding some way to educate all students (orientation?) on this history seems like a minimum.

 

Wonder what the LSU players are going to ask for when they find out about their fight song?

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

 

18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 

So I guess this is where I am.  I fundamentally don't understand the argument.  It was originally performed at a minstrel show.  That there were minstrel shows at The University is regrettable, but not at all surprising.  

But the song itself lacks any racial content or implications.  And knowing the broader history of the lyrics, it's hard to infer any racist undertones.  The "you" upon whom the Eyes of Texas are were the white students who were expected to go out and succeed.

 

This is it.  You want to dig into a southern institution over 100+ years you're going to find shit wherever you want to look.    Do those findings, peripheral or otherwise, carry forward in that element and are somehow still pervasive in a racially-tinged manner and / or insensitive nature?     Answer me, this, with the Eyes. 

The world is turned upside down now, period.  In many respects, some good, some bad.   In the former, shedding light on police and racial issues.   On the latter, trying to connect distant dots, very distant dots, on a school's alma mater.   The latter is ridiculous. 

[Foosters 17,858]

4 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Acho is a fucking liar. I was involved with the team daily in 2010-11 and not one word was said about the Eyes being racist.

 Just a hunch, but maybe they're weren't comfortable talking about race to someone who thinks "hey, how come they get to use the N-word" is a valid take.

[Hiphopopotamos 20,875]

5 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Acho is a fucking liar. I was involved with the team daily in 2010-11 and not one word was said about the Eyes being racist.

Somebody cared - this report is from 2009:

 

[CycleTex87 2,972]

My impression is that this issue with the Eyes is really only to drive the narrative to the surface and generate attention on the other items, which are really sensible. 

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

1 minute ago, CycleTex87 said:

My impression is that this issue with the Eyes is really only to drive the narrative to the surface and generate attention on the other items, which are really sensible. 

Yes, that's a more polite way of saying what I concluded my post with above.

[honolulu horn 6,164]

I am encouraged that most of the posts on this thread have basically said "Not sure about the Eyes demand, but the rest seem reasonable." Because a few years ago (a few weeks ago?) I wouldn't have thought that agreement on the other demands was possible. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by honolulu horn

[deter 314]

FAY

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

Just now, deter said:

FAY

Ofay?

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

25 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

Culture changes with time. We try to adapt and get better, and we wrestle with mistakes from the past. I love that the students are debating this. I also acknowledge that even though the song doesn't seem racist or hurtful to me (a white dude who's done fine in this system), it isn't really my call to make. If a large group of people believe that the song is racist or hurtful, I sorta feel like it's their call. 

 

Dammit, Reynolds Woodcock beat me to it. And said it better. 

The players should have every right to not sing the song. Their choice and free country.
 

The University is not a football team. Millions of students, faculty and professors came before this group of football players. Their voices should not be silenced for a football team. 
 

Take a vote through the long horn foundation and current students. Majority rules. 
 

By their definition, the Star Spangled Banner should also not be sung as it was created during slavery and sang at segregated venues. Most of the other demands are somewhat reasonable and debatable. 
 

As for “donations”, keep it local and on point. Have the university start a funding and mentoring program with professors and current students that seeks to help our states lowest performing schools. Supplies, textbooks, training, student internships etc. Create more scholarships, endowments and grants for these communities and students. Be a leader in Texas public education. 
 

Use the money directly to help Texas communities, not a national fundraising arm. 

[Macanudo 12,989]

I'm on board with so many things that need to change in this country but cutting The Eyes of Texas as our school song is something I'm willing to fight against.

[RollLeft 5,045]

 

8 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

I'm really trying to understand the meaning behind this incoherent string of words. Can you try again? What two things am I conflating? Racial oppression with the demands of the racially oppressed?  Is your point that I am giving too much leeway to the demands of the oppressed and should instead equally weight the value a majority group ascribes to the tradition of a school song?

As I said, I don't really see significant racism in the song, but perhaps me and others in my demographic group are not in the best position to decide the matter. Some of my best memories at UT are signing that song after beating OU or at baseball super regionals with no band. But if it is offensive to the majority of the very athletes I'm supporting, why would I dismiss their opinion?  

Either you don't like what i said, are being obtuse or have low reading comprehension.  Not my problem. 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,758]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

The players should have every right to not sing the song. Their choice and free country.
 

The University is not a football team. Millions of students, faculty and professors came before this group of football players. Their voices should not be silenced for a football team. 
 

Take a vote through the long horn foundation and current students. Majority rules. 
 

By their definition, the Star Spangled Banner should also not be sung as it was created during slavery and sang at segregated venues. Most of the other demands are somewhat reasonable and debatable. 
 

As for “donations”, keep it local and on point. Have the university start a funding and mentoring program with professors and current students that seeks to help our states lowest performing schools. Supplies, textbooks, training, student internships etc. Create more scholarships, endowments and grants for these communities and students. Be a leader in Texas public education. 
 

Use the money directly to help Texas communities, not a national fundraising arm. 

Can you at least comprehend why our black athletes might not be amenable to the whole “majority rules” approach to issues of race?

[Bullneck 19,168]

4 hours ago, Deej said:

If UT is a racist institution,  then aggy probably should drop any mention of us out of their fight song. 

 

IIRC the aggy war hymn is an amalgam of three different songs.  Someone should look into that.

[stone oak 639]

12 minutes ago, Foosters said:

 Just a hunch, but maybe they're weren't comfortable talking about race to someone who thinks "hey, how come they get to use the N-word" is a valid take.

The players talking amongst themselves in the locker room/field/wherever for 5+ hours a day and you think they wouldn’t have said anything? I never said they were talking to me. 
 

This is the biggest reach I’ve ever seen. You might as well just shut down the whole university at this rate because everything about it is very racist in this context.

Edited June 13, 2020 by stone oak

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

7 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Can you at least comprehend why our black athletes might not be amenable to the whole “majority rules” approach to issues of race?

For racist issues?  Absolutely. The song the eyes of Texas is not racist. 
 

I would completely understand if they felt strongly enough and don’t want to play for Texas. Commend them for following through with what they believe and support them at whatever school and future they choose to peruse. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[workswithseed 2,112]

2 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Can you at least comprehend why our black athletes might not be amenable to the whole “majority rules” approach to issues of race?

Do you think people agree or disagree based on skin color? 

[Michael Knight 12,988]

1 minute ago, stone oak said:

The players talking amongst themselves In a locker room for 5+ hours a day and you think they wouldn’t have said anything? I never said they were talking to me. 
 

This is the biggest reach I’ve ever seen. You might as well just shut down the whole university at this rate because everything about it is very racist in this context.

It's weird how no one believes you

[workswithseed 2,112]

Just now, stone oak said:

It’s weird how everyone keeps saying you’re a pedo.

Is he also Raydog?

[RollLeft 5,045]

33 minutes ago, Jcsatx said:

Exactly.  The University is about the development of leaders.  These athletes are exemplifying The University in the most important way possible.   

Well, speaking up and attempting to take a stand is good until you say something stupid.  Imo, they are exploiting and conflating serious issues with invented ones.  Seems to me a real leader would argue the difference between The Eyes and real racial issues.  There are many and this song shouldn't even make the list.  For example the confederate statues or flag which was an actual symbol that represented people pro slavery.  This song does not state or imply anything racist.  That to me would be real leadership.  Right now imo they seem like they are looking for anything something to take up a cause against.  Picking this song seems misinformed and frankly stupid.  It weakens and harms the credibility of real racial issues imo.    

Edited June 13, 2020 by RollLeft

[Js1 85,402]

11 minutes ago, deter said:

FAY

Dunaway? 

[Telegraph_it 3,357]

I was in student government from 09 to 11. We debated a lot of stupid shit and we wrote some legit meaningless letters on Student Government letterhead.
 

The student government was made up of a diverse group of students from many different backgrounds and we ended every meeting with the Eyes. Perhaps it was an issue back then but I was unaware. 
 

A quick google shows in 2018 it was debated whether to sing the song after government meetings. 
 

 

[Sgt Hulk 13,785]

went for a nice run  along the beach and fucked my side chick, cleared my head and now that ive thought about it.  I'm willing to trade the eyes if this team will close out a game, and/or wrap up and tackle without trying the shoulder kill shot.  

 

Im on board if that happens 

[Dirk X West 772]

28 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I’ve always heard of minstrel shows, but today I looked more deeply into their history. Jesus what the fuck was wrong with people back then. 

Spike Lee's movie Bamboozled is a pretty good look at the modern day legacy of black face minstrel shows.  If you're interested in the topic.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

I guess I still don’t see why they are willing to be exploited for the entertainment of a largely white crowd as long as that crowd doesn’t require them to sing a certain song

[stone oak 639]

1 minute ago, Sgt Hulk said:

went for a nice run  along the beach and fucked my side chick, cleared my head and now that ive thought about it.  I'm willing to trade the eyes if this team will close out a game, and/or wrap up and tackle without trying the shoulder kill shot.  

 

Im on board if that happens 

How about win our conference? 

It’s been 11 years since Texas Football was truly nationally relevant...

[Dirk X West 772]

10 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

This song does not state or imply anything racist.  That to me would be real leadership.  Right now imo they seem like they are looking for anything something to take up a cause against.  Picking this song seems misinformed and frankly stupid.  It weakens and harms the credibility of real racial issues imo.    

You think leadership would be if young black men agreed with you?  I believe it.

[DaysOff 7,951]

When a large group of black alumni band together to show their support for keeping The Eyes then we will be able to debate. If that doesn't happen then it would be pretty hard to say there isn't a racial divide on the topic.

I want to hear Earl, Ricky, and Vince. I'll do whatever they want.

[RollLeft 5,045]

Just now, Dirk X West said:

You think leadership would be if young black men agreed with you?  I believe it.

No.  I think leadership is standing up for what's right when its not popular.  Fuck simpleton views.    

[workswithseed 2,112]

3 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

You think leadership would be if young black men agreed with you?  I believe it.

Isn't that what you're doing?

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

I want to hear Earl, Ricky, and Vince. I'll do whatever they want.

I would submit this issue to binding arbitration with a panel of those three arbitrators.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

37 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I’ve always heard of minstrel shows, but today I looked more deeply into their history. Jesus what the fuck was wrong with people back then. 

Way different world, bro.  As a child, I remember white and colored drinking fountains, white and colored restrooms, and white and colored waiting rooms when you went to see the doctor.  When I was in In jr. high in 1966 near the end of the spring semester, the school’s administration held an assembly to announce we would have a (one) black student as a 7th grader in the fall  That young man broke the color barrier at an all-white school with 3000+ students. Different world, indeed.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Harrison Stafford

[Js1 85,402]

Nate is always right 

[smoky 840]

"Written For" minstrel shows vs "Performed At" minstrel shows?

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

Replace it with an Earth shattering Taco Bell gong followed by the smooth tones of William Shatner spoken-word being blasted across the Austin landscape through the gigantic new speakers they're no doubt installing in the renovated area.  Free burnt orange ear-pro for the first 1,000 ticket holders to enter.

Edited June 13, 2020 by MadBurgerMaker

[Michael Knight 12,988]

1 minute ago, smoky said:

"Written For" minstrel shows vs "Performed At" minstrel shows?

A distinction without a difference

[Vic Mackey 47,081]

5 hours ago, Luka Skywalker said:

If they’re seriously discussing getting rid of “Eyes” then I’m in support of just shutting the entire program down. 
 

This fake activist bs is getting tired.

Lmao. You seem upset a certain segment is finally demanding change of all the racist history this country has and want to drop the program for a fucking song? Good lord. Grow a fucking pair of nuts.

This movement is now real. Get used to it. All that racist bullshit can take a hike. No matter how much history is behind it. If you get upset about songs being taken away, you need to step back and examine your life in general. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Vic Mackey