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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it


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3 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

This is a tough one for me. I know the history, and the nostalgia it brings when you hear it playing in the background, but at the end of the day it’s a fucking song. No matter what side you fall on this debate (racist song or can’t get rid of this song because of history) just remember...it’s a song. You shouldn’t care that much.  

If it’s “just a song” then why should anyone care so much? Shouldn’t be a big deal then.

Edited by stone oak
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SIAP....

Apparently that ag school to the east has some unhappy 2%'s....

To that institution's credit, they have made an improvement by placing a blue tarp over ol' Sully. More discussion on the topic later today with a meeting/protest around him this afternoon.

IMG-9057.jpg

Edited by BillyGoatHill
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Just now, Pancho said:

This should be negged into Bolivia because it’s 109% inaccurate.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/77-black-births-to-single-moms-49-for-hispanic-immigrants
 

So, this isn’t a problem at all? Hmm....ok.  I heard this number the other day on the news and could not believe it was true. Apparently it is. 

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6 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

So you're in favor of defunding the police and abolishing the war on drugs and lengthy prison sentences for non violent crimes?

Because militant police harassment and the war on drugs are a major reason for broken families and broken system of child rearing in minority communities across the US. 

Actually, it’s a lot more simple than that. Wear a fucking rubber for fuck’s sake. 

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1 minute ago, Pancho said:

This thread has gone from discussing this issue to conservative white bro’s giving their hot fox news takes on what’s “wrong” with the entire Black community....every single one of us.

 

This thread should probably be locked now. 

I think the real hot take was you assuming what everyone's race was

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42 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

All of this is just a bunch of pussies that want to be heard.  And when they get this accomplished they are going to go home thinking they've done a good job.  And the same problems are going to exist in the black community that did before and the narrative will continue that America is racist and evil.

Yes why can't these 18-21 year olds go solve all of society's problems before asking to be heard? 

That's a great worldview.

 

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This should be negged into Bolivia because it’s 109% inaccurate.

He has a point. Like how Nazi laws were not the Jews’ real problem, it was the resentment for all that gentile children sacrificing they did. Pretty much their own selves to blame. Same here.
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3 minutes ago, stone oak said:

If it’s “just a song” then why should anyone care so much? Shouldn’t be a big deal then.

It’s just a song to me. To some it’s hurtful because bunch of white students dressed up in black face and sang it to mock the school president. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This thread has gone from discussing this issue to conservative white bro’s giving their hot fox news takes on what’s “wrong” with the entire Black community....every single one of us.

 

This thread should probably be locked now. 

Agree. This thread is embarrassing 

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6 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

Actually, it’s a lot more simple than that. Wear a fucking rubber for fuck’s sake. 

That's the main root of it. That systemic oppression's been going back well over a hundred and fifty years for generation after generation. that kind of sustained persecution and damage to specific communities within the country it's going to cause major problems over that much time. 

here's the main problem the u.s. is having right now other than being financially insolvent with an idiot president:

The entire history of the country is built on extreme racism and oppression of non-whites. I mean from day one. That's going to be a very difficult thing to completely remove and keep any identity of the country. 

I mean, look at all those slave masters posing on your dollars.  

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15 minutes ago, stone oak said:

If it’s “just a song” then why should anyone care so much? Shouldn’t be a big deal then.

I mean, that’s exactly where I’m going with this. From either side. If one side is so openly against it, is it REALLY worth fighting for a fucking song lol? I guess that’s my point. I would say the same thing if (for whatever reason) the university was going to get rid of the song and the athletes said they wouldn’t play unless we kept the song. Basically what I’m saying is, do whatever the athletes want . Because who really cares. Pick your battles. This just isn’t a battle worth picking IMO

 

Id rather keep the song, but it is just a song 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It was written for a minstrel show. Minstrel shows were known for mocking black people. That matters in the context of The Eyes of Texas being played at athletic events involving African American student athletes.

It was written by a guy who did minstrel shows and he advertised it at a minstrel show. But I don't think it was written for the show, was part of the show, or was in actuality was "a minstrel song". Its missing the characteristics of minstrel songs that make them so offensive, such as the played up African American dialect in the lyrics as well as the mocking tone directed at black people. It was written with a different purpose in mind and has very different content from abhorrent minstrel songs.

Compare this

When I was young I us'd to wait
On Massa and hand him de plate;
Pass down de bottle when he git dry,
And bresh away de blue tail fly.
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Ole Massa gone away.

To this

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

Do you get what I'm saying? If the meaning behind Eyes was anything remotely similar to the content of minstrel songs I would support its removal and replacement.

I'm not going to die on this hill but just giving my two cents.

Edited by Gigglebush
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5 minutes ago, Gigglebush said:

It was written by a guy who did minstrel shows and he advertised it at a minstrel show. But I don't think it was written for the show, was part of the show, or was in actuality was "a minstrel song". Its missing the characteristics of minstrel songs that make them so offensive, such as the played up African American dialect in the lyrics as well as the mocking tone directed at black people. It was written with a different purpose in mind and has very different content from abhorrent minstrel songs.

Compare this

When I was young I us'd to wait
On Massa and hand him de plate;
Pass down de bottle when he git dry,
And bresh away de blue tail fly.
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Jim crack corn I don't care,
 Ole Massa gone away.

To this

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

Do you get what I'm saying? If the meaning behind Eyes was anything remotely similar to the content of minstrel songs I would support its removal and replacement.

I'm not going to die on this hill but just giving my two cents.

Yeah, the words to that song kind of seem like they're directed towards slaves by the slave masters of Texas who will not let you get away. 

Do not think you can escape them. 

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Where do you get that it was written with a racist intent?  That it may have been written for performance at a minstrel show?
A minstrel show is racist in that it employs blackface and portrays blacks poorly.  But unless the song has some overt connection to those two objectionable elements, which it does not, I don't think you can say it was written with a racist intention.
If there was a minstrel show at UT, and a non-minstrel variety show, and the author restricted its use to the minstrel show, that might be significant.  But, as far as I can tell, the "Varsity Minstrel Show" was the only "game in town" as far as student productions.  That it was first performed there is an unfortunate coincidence.

Maybe I’m mistaken. I had read that the song was written/performed as them saying “The Eyes of Texas are upon [black people] ... [black people] cannot get away.” It seems there may be multiple stories/theories around the real origin, but that is what my comment was referencing.
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Won't be long before some here ask for it to be removed. 

I like the thread. It shows how a request for change (by a group who has suffered racism and exclusion for centuries) and an accommodation that does not involve whites being exploited or second class segregated - or even financially disadvantaged - will react to a request to stop playing a song by saying, “We refuse to make a symbolic apology by agreeing. In fact, fuck you, your problems are your own fault, whites bear no responsibility and your demand is unreasonable” .

That is a microcosm of the whole BLM movement. That is why people say “all lives matter” in response. They can’t even stoop to agreeing with a simple phrase - that some folks are routinely mistreated.

“This history hurts you? Fuck you - wear a condom!”

They should put that plaque on confederate statues they DON’T take down to avoid the ambiguity on which side they are on.

All respect to Pancho, the discussion is taking place now whether we like it or not. So let’s have it.
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Just now, Wanker Bob said:

Yeah, the words to that song kind of seem like they're directed towards slaves by the slave masters of Texas who will not let you get away. 

Do not think you can escape them. 

Isn't the meaning confirmed to be about high expectations the people of Texas have towards the students at UT? 

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23 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This thread has gone from discussing this issue to conservative white bro’s giving their hot fox news takes on what’s “wrong” with the entire Black community....every single one of us.

 

This thread should probably be locked now. 

We have not yet begun to defile ourselves.

 

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9 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I mean, that’s exactly where I’m going with this. From either side. If one side is so openly against it, is it REALLY worth fighting for a fucking song lol? I guess that’s my point. I would say the same thing if (for whatever reason) the university was going to get rid of the song and the athletes said they wouldn’t play unless we kept the song. Basically what I’m saying is, do whatever the athletes want . Because who really cares. Pick your battles. This just isn’t a battle worth picking IMO

 

Id rather keep the song, but it is just a song 

I think the resistance to it is going to be because people realize the entire country is built on a racism and almost every tradition in America has some sort of racist overtones. So if you just let these little ones go without a fight then before long everything you hold dear will be going as well. 

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3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:


Maybe I’m mistaken. I had read that the song was written/performed as them saying “The Eyes of Texas are upon [black people] ... [black people] cannot get away.” It seems there may be multiple stories/theories around the real origin, but that is what my comment was referencing.

Where in the world did you read or hear that? If that was the case I think everyone would agree the song is racist and it should go. This is the origin:

“The lyrics are said to be intended to poke fun at University President Colonel Prather. Prather had attended Washington College, now Washington and Lee University, whose president, Robert E. Lee, would frequently tell his students, "the eyes of the South are upon you." Prather was known for including in his speeches a similar admonition, "The eyes of Texas are upon you," meaning that the state of Texas was watching and expecting the students to go out and do great things. Prather enjoyed the song and promoted its usage. He died not long thereafter, and the song was played at his funeral.”

Edited by Art Vandelay
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1 minute ago, Gigglebush said:

Isn't the meaning confirmed to be about high expectations the people of Texas have towards the students at UT? 

I'm not saying that is the original intent but it can read that way. And when you put in the context of the racism of the time and minstrel shows that's where some people are going to eventually take it. 

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Maybe I’m mistaken. I had read that the song was written/performed as them saying “The Eyes of Texas are upon [black people] ... [black people] cannot get away.” It seems there may be multiple stories/theories around the real origin, but that is what my comment was referencing.


The all white student body wrote and sang their alma mater about watching the emancipated Texans? Seems like a huge reach to me even for 1903.
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Just now, Wanker Bob said:

I think the resistance to it is going to be because people realize the entire country is built on a racism and almost every tradition in America has some sort of racist overtones. So if you just let these little ones go without a fight then before long everything you hold dear will be going as well. 

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

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3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:


I like the thread. It shows how a request for change (by a group who has suffered racism and exclusion for centuries) and an accommodation that does not involve whites being exploited or second class segregated - or even financially disadvantaged - will react to a request to stop playing a song by saying, “We refuse to make a symbolic apology by agreeing. In fact, fuck you, your problems are your own fault, whites bear no responsibility and your demand is unreasonable” .

That is a microcosm of the whole BLM movement. That is why people say “all lives matter” in response. They can’t even stoop to agreeing with a simple phrase - that some folks are routinely mistreated.

“This history hurts you? Fuck you - wear a condom!”

They should put that plaque on confederate statues they DON’T take down to avoid the ambiguity on which side they are on.

All respect to Pancho, the discussion is taking place now whether we like it or not. So let’s have it.

Sweeping generalizations, assumptions on race, and moral superiority all on display from a gator fan on a longhorn board about a longhorn fight song. fuck right off dude. 

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3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:


Maybe I’m mistaken. I had read that the song was written/performed as them saying “The Eyes of Texas are upon [black people] ... [black people] cannot get away.” It seems there may be multiple stories/theories around the real origin, but that is what my comment was referencing.

If this is the case then that is a huge difference and I will change my opinion on the subject.  Can you find a source and post it?  Not only does this go against everything I’ve heard about the song, but it also goes against the more recently brought to light elements posted in this thread.  

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1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

I'm not saying that is the original intent but it can read that way. And when you put in the context of the racism of the time and minstrel shows that's where some people are going to eventually take it. 

The school should probably make an effort to educate people about the meaning. Just to clear things up.

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

I wouldn't call Charles Omenihu a pussy.

I would. He was the guy throwing a temper tantrum at the end of the game that got Charlie fired. Screaming and hollering during the eyes too. No wonder he doesn't want people singing it.

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5 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

Where in the world did you read or hear that? If that was the case I think everyone would agree to song is racist. This is the origin:

“The lyrics are said to be intended to poke fun at University President Colonel Prather. Prather had attended Washington College, now Washington and Lee University, whose president, Robert E. Lee, would frequently tell his students, "the eyes of the South are upon you." Prather was known for including in his speeches a similar admonition, "The eyes of Texas are upon you," meaning that the state of Texas was watching and expecting the students to go out and do great things. Prather enjoyed the song and promoted its usage. He died not long thereafter, and the song was played at his funeral.”

The problem here is that America is filled with erroneous accounts of history and white washing a lot of history to make it more palatable. The Texas rangers chilling and running off Mexican and black Farmers from their lands to steal their for white people being among such things. A fictional origin story could have been written in order to preserve the tradition once they noticed the winds of change were blowing in a certain direction. 

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6 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

I think the resistance to it is going to be because people realize the entire country is built on a racism and almost every tradition in America has some sort of racist overtones. So if you just let these little ones go without a fight then before long everything you hold dear will be going as well. 

 

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

It’s funny because if you would’ve asked me to pick 100 things about the university of Texas that could be considered racist, I probably wouldn’t have gotten to the eyes of Texas. So on that front, I do think it’s a little bit over the top and probably an over correction. But what exactly are we arguing right now in this thread. Seems like a no brainer. If these are the stipulations they want, I’m not dying on the “we have to keep the eyes or Texas” hill. It just isn’t worth it. 

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6 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

I agree 100%, I was just stating the reason why certain segments of our population will be so strongly opposed to changes even in something as simple as a school song. 

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1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

The problem here is that America is filled with erroneous accounts of history and white washing a lot of history to make it more palatable. The Texas rangers chilling and running off Mexican and black Farmers from their lands to steal their for white people being among such things. A fictional origin story could have been written in order to preserve the tradition once they noticed the winds of change were blowing in a certain direction. 

Do you have any evidence to support the EOT origin story being fictional?

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3 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

The problem here is that America is filled with erroneous accounts of history and white washing a lot of history to make it more palatable. The Texas rangers chilling and running off Mexican and black Farmers from their lands to steal their for white people being among such things. A fictional origin story could have been written in order to preserve the tradition once they noticed the winds of change were blowing in a certain direction. 

So if the accepted history doesnt match your agenda, then we can fantasize wildly to make it what we want?

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2 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

Do you have any evidence to support the EOT origin story being fictional?

Not at all. It could be 100 percent fact. But a lot of white washing of history occurred so it's a definite possibility and accounts of history by the American white establishment shouldn't be taken as fact when it comes to questions of potential racist origins. When was the earliest account of the story? Is there a news article that can be verified to that time period with the story? Or did it come about recently?

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1 minute ago, immamac said:

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

Where do Indian Americans, Japanese, Chinese & Mexicans fall into this reflection of America and Texas as it moves forward? Should those changes be any less of an initiative? My thought is no, all of it should be addressed.

Most of the hesitation around BLM that i've personally heard is the lack of understanding on where dollars are/will go. Unfortunately, the lack of information immediately brings politics into peoples heads and that creates the biggest bottleneck. 

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59 minutes ago, used2b said:

Now that The Eyes issue is out on the table it's going to become a "taking a knee" issue if they continue to play it after games. Many fans/players will refuse to sing it and those that do will look like assholes, especially white people. UNLESS, a result of conversations between CDC and the players results in them coming away ok with it and those players lead on it. But that is not likely.

I do like the idea of singing Don't Stop Believing instead. And/or just Texas Fight, which is actually our "song'.

You can thank our social justice warrior players for taking an innocuous song sung by generations of Longhorns of all races into a culture war flashpoint. This does nothing for police reform. Destroying the program from within that’s what’s going on. Thanks to the players for turning our Alma mater into a flash point in the culture war. As for me, I will sing the Eyes LOUDER at the end of the game. Also you should be booed mercilessly for saying it should be replaced by Don’t Stop Believing. Why not Sweet Caroline so we can completely be generic. 

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Not at all. It could be 100 percent fact. But a lot of white washing of history occurred so it's a definite possibility and accounts of history by the American white establishment shouldn't be taken as fact when it comes to questions of potential racist origins. When was the earliest account of the story? Is there a news article that can be verified to that time period with the story? Or did it come about recently?

Burden of proof is on the person making the claim that accepted history is false

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7 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Where do Indian Americans, Japanese, Chinese & Mexicans fall into this reflection of America and Texas as it moves forward? Should those changes be any less of an initiative? My thought is no, all of it should be addressed.

Most of the hesitation around BLM that i've personally heard is the lack of understanding on where dollars are/will go. Unfortunately, the lack of information immediately brings politics into peoples heads and that creates the biggest bottleneck. 

Why get a lawyer when there's video evidence of your kid killing someone? 

Just toss him in jail till he rots. Only the victim's family gets a say. 

Edited by workswithseed
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6 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Not at all. It could be 100 percent fact. But a lot of white washing of history occurred so it's a definite possibility and accounts of history by the American white establishment shouldn't be taken as fact when it comes to questions of potential racist origins. When was the earliest account of the story? Is there a news article that can be verified to that time period with the story? Or did it come about recently?

No, it did not come about recently. The history of the song is well documented, research it yourself. If there was some nefarious racist meaning in the lyrics then surely the SJWs would have uncovered it by now.

EDIT: Also this:

3 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Burden of proof is on the person making the claim that accepted history is false

Edited by Art Vandelay
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41 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Yes why can't these 18-21 year olds go solve all of society's problems before asking to be heard? 

That's a great worldview.

 

No ones asking them to solve all of society's problems.  They are being heard and I don't understand how just banning and renaming shit fixes anything.  It just pisses people off.  They have accomplished nothing.

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6 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Where do Indian Americans, Japanese, Chinese & Mexicans fall into this reflection of America and Texas as it moves forward? Should those changes be any less of an initiative? My thought is no, all of it should be addressed.

Most of the hesitation around BLM that i've personally heard is the lack of understanding on where dollars are/will go. Unfortunately, the lack of information immediately brings politics into peoples heads and that creates the biggest bottleneck. 

This isn't about dollars. This is about fundamental change. BLM is an organization and a movement trying to press the agenda of change, it's up to each and every one of us to embrace that agenda and make the changes. 

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2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

No ones asking them to solve all of society's problems.  They are being heard and I don't understand how just banning and renaming shit fixes anything.  It just pisses people off.  They have accomplished nothing.

Maybe listen to them instead of just shouting in their faces how stupid, naive, and led by "outside agitators" they are. 

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Sweeping generalizations, assumptions on race, and moral superiority all on display from a gator fan on a longhorn board about a longhorn fight song. fuck right off dude. 

The response to wear a rubber was not a generalization, but a comment above. I always liked the Eyes of Texas. It fits the whole Texas ‘Bigger and better than anyone’ persona quite well.

If that was our fight song we’d (old UF alums) would react exactly like Texas fans. Book it. Not saying we are different or better.

While you see it as a Texas fight song issue, I see it as representative of a much larger phenomena and cultural discussion breaking out. As a civil rights lawyer for years, this is great for the country to ponder, even if it hurts now. Rather than rejecting the people raising the issue as stupid and unreasonable ( not you), we need to find a way to first acknowledge the hurt - and then dialogue to see if an accommodation can be made. Dismissing it out of hand is not a good strategy, imo. Time for that has ended.

Like I said, this is coming to Florida too. And all places who have been blind to how the past is looked at by those who were treated poorly in it, while that past is revered by those who were not.
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13 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

We can’t simple erase history because it’s inconvenient though. We need to show that we were wrong and corrected the behavior. Our founding fathers realized this when drafting the Constitution. Men are not infallible. 

The problem is in the presentation. This reads like a hostage letter. As with many, I’m fine with everything but The Eyes. The song isn’t a confederate flag or and ode to slave masters. It represents the very heart of UT’s tradition and pride. The lyrics have no racist overtones. If players choose not to participate in singing it after games, so be it. That’s there right and shouldn’t be dictated to them to follow tradition. But eliminating it because there’s a kernel of a link to racism? I’m sorry, but no. This PC and cancel culture environment needs to stop. Where do we draw the line? Giving up Bevo because some people think it’s animal cruelty? 

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