Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,243]

Just now, immamac said:

This isn't about dollars. This is about fundamental change. BLM is an organization and a movement trying to press the agenda of change, it's up to each and every one of us to embrace that agenda and make the changes. 

I think it is up to everyone to hear them out, and think about their requests and the reasonings for it. But it is not incumbent that we make every change they demand, that is lunacy. 

[Apex73 313]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Maybe listen to them instead of just shouting in their faces how stupid, naive, and led by "outside agitators" they are. 

No one is shouting in their faces.  They are the ones doing the shouting.  I have listened and will continue to do so but to act like this is getting anything accomplished other than stroking your own ego is preposterous.  

[immamac 42,864]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

I think it is up to everyone to hear them out, and think about their requests and the reasonings for it. But it is not incumbent that we make every change they demand, that is lunacy. 

Is it? What are you defending here? 

[Revolution512 1,487]

25 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's the entire point. There is no room for racist overtones to exist anymore. They need to be completely destroyed and abolished. History needs to reflect that Americans and Texans made the right choice to unify our people so that there is a chance for future generations to think of the term "person of color" as absurd and abstract because people just became people and everyone has the same chance, treatment and respect as an American.

So you’re in favor of re-naming all cities and states?

[SquishMitten 10,415]

Where in the world did you read or hear that? If that was the case I think everyone would agree the song is racist and it should go.

Again, I could’ve misinterpreted it. I haven’t done any research outside this thread, but I was a few hundred posts into this when I responded so it it was somewhere near the beginning. Like I said, it seems there are multiple stories on the real origin/meaning. At this point, I’ll admit I’m not an expert on all of this. Doubt any of us are. As with most controversial topics, there probably isn’t a single irrefutably correct answer. There could be multiple “accurate” origins, in which case people will latch on to the one that best suites their position.

[LTtxfan 49,245]

Fyi:  The song "The Yellow Rose of Texas"

The earliest known version is found in Christy's Plantation Melodies. No. 2, a songbook published under the authority of Edwin Pearce Christy in Philadelphia in 1853. Christy was the founder of the blackface minstrel show known as the Christy's Minstrels. Like most minstrel songs, the lyrics are written in a cross between a parody of a generic creole dialect historically attributed to African-Americans and standard American English. The song is written in the first person from the perspective of an African-American singer who refers to himself as a "darkey," longing to return to "a yellow girl" (that is, a light-skinned, or bi-racial woman born of African/African-American and European-American progenitors).

 

Lyrics:

Earliest known version, from Christy's Plantation Melodies. No. 2:

The "Dearest Mae" and "Rosa Lee" referenced in the song are the titles of two other songs also appearing in Christy's Minstrels songbooks.

Twenty-five years later, the lyrics were changed to eliminate the more racially specific lyrics, with "soldier" replacing "darkey"; and the first line of the chorus, "She's the sweetest rose of color" (a reference to the African-European free people of color) changed to "She's the sweetest little flower ..."

"Dearest Mae" is replaced with "Clementine" in some variant versions of the song.

[Goodman 3,273]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

This isn't about dollars. This is about fundamental change. BLM is an organization and a movement trying to press the agenda of change, it's up to each and every one of us to embrace that agenda and make the changes. 

Correct. The BLM line item "should" create a great conversation that educates athletes, coaches/admins and us fans. Right now, no one knows the details of how a dollar donated to BLM flows to "pressing the agenda of change" without political fingerprints. If that is the case, it should be easy and beneficial to us all.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,243]

Just now, immamac said:

Is it? What are you defending here? 

Im saying, just because BLM makes demands doesnt mean we must bend to those demands, they are not the warden and we are not their prisoners. We are all equal as Americans and should come to the table together to address these issues but saying we must simply embrace any and all demands/requests is completely ridiculous. 

[mdmost 43,004]

2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

No one is shouting in their faces.  They are the ones doing the shouting.  I have listened and will continue to do so but to act like this is getting anything accomplished other than stroking your own ego is preposterous.  

Go check out Twitter and some of the responses any of these players are getting. A letter is shouting? 

[Lurch 5,931]

No one is shouting in their faces.  They are the ones doing the shouting.  I have listened and will continue to do so but to act like this is getting anything accomplished other than stroking your own ego is preposterous.  

Open your eyes. Changes are happening.

[TheBryMan81 2,514]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Right. Such oppression with the Eyes. Something these players knew shit about until they became unwitting pawns. They’re so brave. Anyone who wants to throw away the history and heritage associated with our Alma mater can go fuck themselves. CDC should say all the right lip service bs about listening to their grievances and then firmly tell them to fuck off we aren’t dropping it.  This will destroy our attendance. It’s going to go over like a lead balloon with our average alum or t-shirt fan.

T-shirt fan here. For about 20 years now (since I was 10 and understood enough to pick my own teams).

I love the Eyes of Texas, and to me it means that as representatives of the university (for y'all) and state of Texas (for mere tshirt fans like me), we are expected to go out and be leaders and change the world; to make the university and state proud to count us as one of their own.  I hope that progressive conversations are had and that it is decided that the Eyes have greater meaning now than they had at it's origin.

However,

if they decide to scrap the Eyes, then fuck it! It's a fucking song! I guarantee that if none of you had ever sung they Eyes, your college or Texas experience wouldn't have changed one fucking bit.  A song doesn't make the University what it is.  The people of the University make it what it is.  Someone come up with a song that is just as inspirational and that represents the university and state without having a racist history behind it.

I try  to make it to at least one game a year, which has gotten harder and  more expensive as I move further away (Texas --> Cali --> Florida --> Overseas --> Overseas, now in Japan).  I don't spend $1-2 thousand dollars to go to the game just to sing a fucking song at the end of the game.  I go to spend quality time with my parents and brothers, cheering on representatives of this great school that wear Texas across their chest, and hopefully cheering them on to a victory.   As much as I love the song, I couldn't give two fucks if it gets sung at the end of the game.  Whether the song is there or not, I still get to spend time with my family cheering on a team that we love.  And we still get to sing Texas Fight with our horns up beside each other.  These athletes are doing exactly what Texas wants them to do; they're not bleating like sheep just because they're told to at fish camp...they're standing up for what they believe in and attempting to lead an effort for change.  That's leadership.  For those of you saying you'll give up your seats and not support the University any more, GREAT! I'll gladly take those seats from you in order to create more lasting memories with my parents. Whether the Eyes gets sung or not. And if we ever start winning again, don't lie to yourselves; you'll be trying to buy tickets to the conference or (hopefully) national championship game just like the rest of us, whether the Eyes are sung or not.

[BillyBadAss 189]

I graduated from the University 25 years ago and remember the pride of accomplishment I felt singing The Eyes at graduation. 

It has since always been something that makes me proud to sing, to still feel connected and part of a greater community. Traditions are an important human element to bind us to our communities, and in the world today we have less and less of that, IMO. 

The lyrics, as I interpret them, served to remind me to try to be better, to know I am a part of something bigger, to do the right thing and represent the University and State of Texas well. 

I don't know, this one feels very misplaced to me, and I will surely miss the tradition - I feel like we've lost something here. 

[Apex73 313]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Go check out Twitter and some of the responses any of these players are getting. A letter is shouting? 

Like Mike Gundy, I could give a rats ass about twitter.  I don't have one and refuse to feed into that garbage.  Thats a terrible argument.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Apex73

[Apex73 313]

2 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

Open your eyes. Changes are happening.

 

I can see changes are happening.  I don't think most of them have been for the better.  Whats your point?

[stone oak 639]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

This thread has gone from discussing this issue to conservative white bro’s giving their hot fox news takes on what’s “wrong” with the entire Black community....every single one of us.

 

This thread should probably be locked now. 

Bro’s what? 

[Dirk X West 772]

16 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Isn't that what you're doing?

They're doing what's important to them.  What I want or not doesn't matter.  I don't get speak for them or define what leadership means to them.

[Goodman 3,273]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Go check out Twitter and some of the responses any of these players are getting. A letter is shouting? 

If Twitter or social media is the voice of reason for a cause then everyone is fucked. 

[immamac 42,864]

6 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Im saying, just because BLM makes demands doesnt mean we must bend to those demands, they are not the warden and we are not their prisoners. We are all equal as Americans and should come to the table together to address these issues but saying we must simply embrace any and all demands/requests is completely ridiculous. 

Honestly we should until it gets to the point where it's no longer logical. There are absolute paths logically to understanding each and every single one of the requests from the student body, they are well organize and respectful in their request. 

These weren't demands, they were requests, and reasonable ones at that. If you think these were demands then IDK what to tell you.

[Armybrat 40,850]

30 minutes ago, Llano Estacado said:

 

The all white student body wrote and sang their alma mater about watching the emancipated Texans? Seems like a huge reach to me even for 1903.

 

Yeah, a big reach.  I don’t really believe those students were giving any thoughts about black people who weren’t even allowed on campus (except possibly as custodial staff).  The Prather connection is the one I heard back in the day. 
 
But as I said earlier, if after all the discussion the student body votes to dump it, so be it. It is all about them, not us. Always felt that way about sports ticket allotment too.

[mdmost 43,004]

4 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Like Mike Gundy, I could give a rats ass about twitter.  I don't have one and refuse to feed into that garbage.  Thats a terrible argument.

Yet you feed into the garbage here. This is the same social media that Gundy was speaking about. And Twitter is how players interact with their fan base. 

[ramirezut 63]

A famous university chancellor once opined:

"I find that the three major administrative problems on a campus are sex for the students, parking for the faculty, and athletics for the alumni."

This thread is exact proof of that quote. 

[Lurch 5,931]

I can see changes are happening.  I don't think most of them have been for the better.  Whats your point?

You just said nothing was being accomplished. Apparently you meant nothing you liked was being accomplished, which was not their goal.

[formermav43 4,606]

44 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Yeah, the words to that song kind of seem like they're directed towards slaves by the slave masters of Texas who will not let you get away. 

Do not think you can escape them. 

It’s what the President said to students. Are you suggesting that he reinforced a message of white supremacy by likening the students to slaves? That’s asinine.

[GreenspointTexas 9,645]

I had no clue that not only is our university so blatantly racist, but that many in our fanbase are as well

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,243]

Just now, immamac said:

Honestly we should until it gets to the point where it's no longer logical. There are absolute paths logically to understanding each and every single one of the requests from the student body, they are well organize and respectful in their request. 

These weren't demands, they were requests, and reasonable ones at that. If you think these were demands then IDK what to tell you.

Changing the eyes is illogical and you are not the sole determinant of whether a request is logical or illogical, just as I am not either, clearly our thresholds for what is reasonable and unreasonable differ. And like all requests, they can and may be denied.

Your statement that it is incumbent we accept all changes is ridiculous because your stopping point is "where it's no longer logical." What may be illogical to you, may not be illogical to BLM or others in the future, so who made you the judge, jury, and executioner? 

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,243]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I had no clue that not only is our university so blatantly racist, but that many in our fanbase are as well

High quality post that added a lot to the discussion

[mdmost 43,004]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yeah, a big reach.  I don’t really believe those students were giving any thoughts about black people who weren’t even allowed on campus (except possibly as custodial staff).  The Prather connection is the one I heard back in the day. 
 
But as I said earlier, if after all the discussion the student body votes to dump it, so be it. It is all about them, not us. Always felt that way about sports ticket allotment too.

I agree. The lyrics weren't written with racist intentions. The issue goes back to the minstrel shows which were steeped in racism. I think what will come out of this is the buildings get renamed, the statues are gone, and there's a portion before the Eyes are played that acknowledges that history of the song. Someone way back said this could be used to show the evolution of the song and what it means now. 

[formermav43 4,606]

Just now, mdmost said:

I agree. The lyrics weren't written with racist intentions. The issue goes back to the minstrel shows which were steeped in racism. I think what will come out of this is the buildings get renamed, the statues are gone, and there's a portion before the Eyes are played that acknowledges that history of the song. Someone way back said this could be used to show the evolution of the song and what it means now. 

This is not unreasonable.

[Goodman 3,273]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

High quality post that added a lot to the discussion

Pretty sure that's sarcasm bringing our site roots back to why most of us are here. Clearly this site is forever changing. Heavy lies the crown.

[Apex73 313]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yet you feed into the garbage here. This is the same social media that Gundy was speaking about. And Twitter is how players interact with their fan base. 

Really?  Because I don't see hashtag surlyhorns anywhere in the media or any place that has a national presence. To act like a fan message board is the same is twitter is ridiculous.  Twitter only provides a certain amount of characters which leaves out a lot of context.  Then people are able to judge and generalize about people based on those limited amount of characters.  It has a way more of a presence then surly ever will.  Once again, thats a terrible argument.

[Armybrat 40,850]

Just now, Goodman said:

Pretty sure that's sarcasm bringing our site roots back to why most of us are here. Clearly this site is forever changing. Heavy lies the crown.

One thing never changes though.

[RomaVicta 29,929]

21 hours ago, crash_davis said:

I don't like some if the demands but I'm not a black athlete representing the University of Texas. I don't know what it's like to deal with the fucked up system that they've grown up under. 

Fuck it, it's another opportunity to live up to the motto and change the fucking world. Either UTexas is part of the solution or it's part of the problem.

We're asking cops to hold each other accountable. Time for institutions of higher learning to do the same.

This is as far as I've read into the thread. Crash, like others above his post, state my sentiments very well. Nice job.

I'd be sad to never raise my hand to the Eyes of Texas again. It used to be considered the unofficial state song. Like the confederate flag to some southerners, it can be simply a symbol of one's own pride and pleasure in his home.

Once you learn that the symbol is something entirely different to another group of people, you must consider the issue. Giving up the song to make black students and black Texans feel more included (or included for the first time) is a trade I can't refuse to make. 

The BLM movement has been maybe the most remarkably well orchestrated and represented protest organization I've ever seen, and I recall the 60s and the courage of Civil Rights demonstrators. I appreciate the patience and desire for constructive engagement from a wronged people. I whole heartedly support Black Lives Matter as do many white people. I expect the best leadership of the entire country to emerge from their ranks.

I hope there is room for negotiation and compromise on a few of the demands. Mainly the song. I suspect committing to contributing to a political organization will be a sticking point for UT. I hope UT can find an alternative that is satisfactory.

I think, when we can do it without the threat of disease, that we should do another thing. We should invite all students, alumni, and citizens of Texas to the Main Mall. The chancellor of the system with the governor and the Dean at his/her side should apologize for all past discrimination, harassment, and insult to African Americans done through either commission or omission. (Bolded for TL;DR) 

Then we should sing the Eyes or whatever we come up with to satisfy students of color. 

We white people are being given a chance to start anew. I say we seize it with full hearts.

Hook 'Em!

[Apex73 313]

6 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

You just said nothing was being accomplished. Apparently you meant nothing you liked was being accomplished, which was not their goal.

 

Tell me exactly what issue is being addressed by banning songs and demanding names to be changed.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, stone oak said:

I lived in the Heights for 3 years dude. It’s one of the most whitewashed neighborhoods in the whole city, save for the enclave cities like West U or Southside Place. 
 

Whites pushing out all minority “holdouts” as fast as possible in the name of rapid gentrification. That’s the Heights.

Also has white nights.  

[Lurch 5,931]

Imagine thinking in 2020 that twitter character limits have any meaningful impact.

[stone oak 639]

7 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I had no clue that not only is our university so blatantly racist, but that many in our fanbase are as well

[workswithseed 2,112]

19 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

Open your eyes. Changes are happening.

 

Said the Weimar Republic before its collapse.

Edited June 13, 2020 by workswithseed

[Tex Pete 20,399]

54 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Yeah, the words to that song kind of seem like they're directed towards slaves by the slave masters of Texas who will not let you get away. 

Do not think you can escape them. 

We’ve truly wandered into the theater of the absurd. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, cabowabo said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/77-black-births-to-single-moms-49-for-hispanic-immigrants
 

So, this isn’t a problem at all? Hmm....ok.  I heard this number the other day on the news and could not believe it was true. Apparently it is. 

Pancho is immune to facts.  

[stone oak 639]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Also has white nights.  

Exactly. White linen night...cmon. 

[Armybrat 40,850]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I agree. The lyrics weren't written with racist intentions. The issue goes back to the minstrel shows which were steeped in racism. I think what will come out of this is the buildings get renamed, the statues are gone, and there's a portion before the Eyes are played that acknowledges that history of the song. Someone way back said this could be used to show the evolution of the song and what it means now. 

Yes, and I could care less if the Cowboys frat organization was permanently banned.

[Lurch 5,931]

Tell me exactly what issue is being addressed by banning songs and demanding names to be changed.

The issue of demeaning a race by celebrating those that oppressed them.

How is this difficult to understand?

[Bruno Sardine 147]

Guys - this is silly. All the teeth gnashing. We can keep the song and the lyrics. 

* Dedicate each performance of the Eyes to a particular person or event associated with the cause of racial justice. The players themselves can do this. Thus, the 9/19 performance of the Eyes will be distinct from the 10/17 performance in that each performance celebrates a unique theme.
* Connect each performance to a fund-raising effort. If you sing the Eyes of Texas, you give. In singing the Eyes of Texas, our alumni will raise a substantial sum that will be donated to causes devoted to racial justice. The players themselves can decide this. 
* When the world sees our fan base stand up to sing the Eyes of Texas, they will know that we do so in the name of racial justice and that we put our pockets where our mouths are. 
* The players will be proud, the fans will be proud, and the singing of the Eyes of Texas will reflect positively on our University.

All is not lost. 

[Lurch 5,931]

Said the Weimar Republic before its collapse.

Let us celebrate racists or we’ll create another Nazi party is a hell of a take, even for you.

[alincoln 2,381]

Sydney Carton was absolutely correct in his post a few pages ago.  

Not everyone on this thread realizes it yet, but The Eyes of Texas was finished the second the demand was sent because anyone singing it will now be considered a racist.  Regardless of the legitimacy of the claims of the racist origins of the song (dubious imo) or the relevance of any racist origin to a fight song that has been a source of unity among UT fans and athletes of all colors for decades, The Eyes of Texas is now completely unacceptable and will be relegated to the dustbin of history because some football players in 2020 decided it is racist.   

I'm sure that we will continue discussing this for a few hundred pages, but the die is cast.  

 

 

[MrBig 5,414]

I’ve Been Working on the Railroad is historically racist.

The Eyes of Texas is set to the tune of that song.

The Eyes of Texas was first performed at a minstrel show where white men dressed in blackface and sang the song to the tune of a banjo.

“The lyrics aren’t racist” people say, but the presentation was. THAT is the point here.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s just a song to me. To some it’s hurtful because bunch of white students dressed up in black face and sang it to mock the school president. 
 

 

Agree. This thread is embarrassing 

Do we know that the performers who played and sang the song were in black face?

The band was in black face? 
 

This isn’t clear 

[GreenspointTexas 9,645]

12 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I had no clue that not only is our university so blatantly racist, but that many in our fanbase are as well

I see also that many in our fanbase are fucking idiots that cant detect sarcasm to save their lives. 
 

Seeing this thread, its no wonder people are having a hard time with a single song

[CTC2 2,797]

5 hours ago, NoctambulantBrobdingnagian said:

everything they want to get rid of is a symbol

do you value symbols over people?

Maybe, when they have four losses a year.

[RomaVicta 29,929]

The posts after mine confirm my decision to stop at Crash's excellent post. I knew the discussion would get depressing. I even suspected who would make it so.

No organization or operation ever improved by insisting it was the best ever and expelling those who disagreed. To be the best, you must recognize the need for change and then change. 

I'll exit and leave the good fight to others on this thread. What a world.