Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[TwiceHorn 31539]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

But it does have racial animus for people of color. That's what you are missing. 

The "animus" is so attenuated as to strain credibility.  I'm not missing that.

At some point, deference to declarations of racial animus becomes absurd.  This may not quite be there, but it's close.

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

I absolutely understand the need to rename buildings or tear down statutes which were erected or built in memorial to figures or personalities who neither earned such adoration nor needed to be celebrated in any long standing way.  Their contributions to history, good and bad, are noted but such deference is misplaced and even ugly in cases.  With the song (which objectively is a very silly song), I wonder if this isn't actually an opportunity to show unity by re-creating the song which better encapsulates the University's and Texans overall better attributes or hopes.  Instead of cancelling the culture, make it better, re-examine it and recreate it for a better and more apt time and aspirations.  Change the words.  Change the ideas.  Change the attitudes but perhaps keep the title, maybe the tune, and make it better.  Make it relevant.  Come together, all ethnicities, and create something new and great, out of something old and outdated.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[GHOSTUSER 361]

7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Sure. Are you fine with a giant PSA before the Eyes are sung that talks about the history of the song including the minstrel shows? I mean others have put up a historical context of the song's history and you think these contexts are dubious.

Yes I’m fine with doing that. What I’m against is labeling something sung for decades without racial animus of alumni of all types as racist. Judge, jury and execution with no debate makes me sick. Investigate the history further. Make singing the EYES inclusive every week with “WE are the EYES” as @Bruno Sardine suggested. Getting rid of the Alma mater because SOME players THOUGHT it meant the eyes were on slaves is just wrong on so many levels. The assertion is false and getting rid of something cherished on a false basis will tear this fanbase apart. Don’t do that.

[TornACL 7722]

Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

Yes I’m fine with doing that. What I’m against is labeling something sung for decades without racial animus of alumni of all types as racist. Judge, jury and execution with no debate makes me sick. Investigate the history further. Make singing the EYES inclusive every week with “WE are the EYES” as @Bruno Sardine suggested. Getting rid of the Alma mater because SOME players THOUGHT it meant the eyes were on slaves is just wrong on so many levels. The assertion is false and getting rid of something cherished on a false basis will tear this fanbase apart. Don’t do that.

Honestly I think this is where we are headed. Which, shocker, would be the result of reasoned discourse, listening to and not dismissing valid concerns on both sides, and coming up with an acceptable solution for all. 

What starts here changes the world, indeed. 

[Cairn Horn88 8283]

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" is a line from the 1939 film Gone with the Wind starring Clark Gable and Vivien Leigh. The line is spoken by Rhett Butler (Gable), as his last words to Scarlett O'Hara (Leigh), in response to her tearful question: "Where shall I go?

[MrBig 5442]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Yes I’m fine with doing that. What I’m against is labeling something sung for decades without racial animus of alumni of all types as racist. Judge, jury and execution with no debate makes me sick. Investigate the history further. Make singing the EYES inclusive every week with “WE are the EYES” as @Bruno Sardine suggested. Getting rid of the Alma mater because SOME players THOUGHT it meant the eyes were on slaves is just wrong on so many levels. The assertion is false and getting rid of something cherished on a false basis will tear this fanbase apart. Don’t do that.

If a song can tear our fan base apart, then so be it. It’s just a song. It’s on those fans who choose to turn their back on this program because of a song with questionable origins. 

[Sgt Hulk 13841]

14 minutes ago, skeeter said:

 

So it doesn’t get lost 

[Apex73 313]

7 minutes ago, MrBig said:

If a song can tear our fan base apart, then so be it. It’s just a song. It’s on those fans who choose to turn their back on this program because of a song with questionable origins. 

While I agree with that, it's not just about changing the names or the song, its about folding to the pressure of the mob.  Its not a good thing to have weak leadership.  If people can just make demands anytime they feel offended about something it becomes a very scary place.

[Telegraph_it 3359]

Life would be a lot simpler if I adopted the fallacy that every idea or policy is either racist or anti-racist. 
 

I could then write witty one sentence retorts to people who don’t view the world that way and look down at them with contempt. 

 

[CowboyFred 1151]

4 hours ago, cabowabo said:

No shit. I don’t think the Eyes of Texas or some name on the building is the root of the problems for the black community. Not having children out of wedlock and kids knowing their fathers would do a lot more. 

lol this is such a bitch made comment and your inner racist is showing.  

[RollLeft 5045]

23 minutes ago, skeeter said:

 

The only problem with this is that it's false and Joe is wrong.  He is regurgitating the refuted account by Whaling.  The author of the song Sinclair refuted Whalings account and stated so per the Alcalde 1992 article p14 2nd column. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=jtUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq="the+eyes+of+texas"+alcalde&source=bl&ots=20sYFXeNR2&sig=UuWm_v0rlye4FKmc1JtTMoztdkU&hl=en&ei=W63mTdiSA8Th0QH46vWCCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q="the eyes of texas" alcalde&f=false 

Edited June 13, 2020 by RollLeft

[justhookit 4191]

I’ve fixed the song. You’re welcome.

The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
We cannot get away.
Do not think we can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon us
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

[victory88 5669]

5 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

While I agree with that, it's not just about changing the names or the song, its about folding to the pressure of the mob.  Its not a good thing to have weak leadership.  If people can just make demands anytime they feel offended about something it becomes a very scary place.

Dude, what’s wrong with you?  What mob?  Our students put a reasonable list of things they would like changed.  They are peacefully stating they will not participate in recruiting players to our school and participating in alumni events.  That’s not part of their scholarship offer.  And show weakness??  Listening to our students bring up positive changes is weakness?  Your choice or words make it very clear where you stand and it has nothing to do with football or this song.  Go root for aggy....

[Revolution512 1495]

48 minutes ago, victory88 said:

A list of demands like this???  What in their demands is unreasonable in your opinion?  Do you not want the buildings named after racists to be renamed?  Do you still want statues of people that supported slavery and segregation on campus?  You want to keep "The Eyes", which can be argued was introduced and sung to glorify slavery and treating an entire race like subhumans, as our official school song that represents our academic institution?  Are you against the school utilizing a very small portion of it's profits to help with programs that could benefit the black community, athletes, and student body?  The same black students that we beg to come to our school over other offers they have so we can watch them play and make money off of them.  I'm just curious, what about their demands is unreasonable?  

The list isn’t unreasonable or even the point. If this is about open dialogue and discussion, ultimatums fit in how? 
 

There are things on that list that, quite frankly, are embarrassing for the university. 

[MrBig 5442]

5 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

The only problem with this is that it's false and Joe is wrong.  He is regurgitating the refuted account by Whaling.  The author of the song Sinclair refuted Whalings account and stated so per the Alcalde 1992 article p14 2nd column. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=jtUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq="the+eyes+of+texas"+alcalde&source=bl&ots=20sYFXeNR2&sig=UuWm_v0rlye4FKmc1JtTMoztdkU&hl=en&ei=W63mTdiSA8Th0QH46vWCCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q="the eyes of texas" alcalde&f=false 

What is wrong? John Sinclair only denied it was a joke on the UT President, he NEVER denied the fact it was performed at a minstrel show in blackface. 

[TornACL 7722]

I wonder what the opposing arguments were when students on campus protested, and eventually put an end to, minstrel shows on campus in the 1960s.

[CowboyFred 1151]

1 minute ago, TornACL said:

I wonder what the opposing arguments were when students on campus protested, and eventually put an end to, minstrel shows on campus in the 1960s.

"They've been around forever and my family has been apart of them for generations..."

[Apex73 313]

5 minutes ago, victory88 said:

Dude, what’s wrong with you?  What mob?  Our students put a reasonable list of things they would like changed.  They are peacefully stating they will not participate in recruiting players to our school and participating in alumni events.  That’s not part of their scholarship offer.  And show weakness??  Listening to our students bring up positive changes is weakness?  Your choice or words make it very clear where you stand and it has nothing to do with football or this song.  Go root for aggy....

I disagree that the changes they propose are positive.  I think they accomplish nothing.  And the fact that you can't have an opposing view without someone implying you are a terrible person speaks volumes about where we are with this.  No room for nuance.  No room for discussion.  No room for thinking.  Its agree with us or else.  Thats a mob mentality.  And the only reason any of this is happening is because of the recent narrative. Nobody gave a shit about this until recently.

[Mole 4333]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Tunes are now racist?

Folk music, how does it work?

Tunes can absolutely have cultural associations absent any lyrics. These can be positive, negative, racist, or completely absent of racism. 

Taps is the first one that comes to mind (obviously not racist, but with no doubt a strong cultural meaning). It has a very powerful impact, no lyrics needed. That impact is due to the cultural associations. Someone unaware of the cultural meaning of Taps wouldn’t be particularly moved by it. I’m sure mocking performance of Taps would be offensive to many.

The question of minstrel songs and the more palatable versions that have arisen is a tricky, nuanced one. Unilaterally scrapping that entire body of literature might take us to some strange conclusions, but some of the music might be better left to more academic settings. 

I agree with the posts above that the best way out of this is through redeeming the darker parts of the song’s history through a charitable campaign. Make singing this song a positive act of solidarity for a more just and fair culture.

You can acknowledge the bad and turn it into something positive. You can also do it free of politics to the extent that being against racial discrimination is free from partisan politics. There’s a way to “save” the song, but the way involves facing the issue head on and acknowledging the hurt. Hand waving it away is a losing proposition at this point.

Like many on here, this is a specific issue that I haven’t considered before last night, so my opinion might change as I learn more. It seems like for some black Longhorns, this has been a point of contention for a while now, so it’s worth taking the time to understand.

 

 

[Spankytoes 1743]

56 minutes ago, victory88 said:

A list of demands like this???  What in their demands is unreasonable in your opinion?  Do you not want the buildings named after racists to be renamed?  Do you still want statues of people that supported slavery and segregation on campus?  You want to keep "The Eyes", which can be argued was introduced and sung to glorify slavery and treating an entire race like subhumans, as our official school song that represents our academic institution?  Are you against the school utilizing a very small portion of it's profits to help with programs that could benefit the black community, athletes, and student body?  The same black students that we beg to come to our school over other offers they have so we can watch them play and make money off of them.  I'm just curious, what about their demands is unreasonable?  

All demands are unreasonable. Requests are better. Let’s people, you know, talk about things to gain a better perspective of how it makes our black students/athletes feel. We’re after change, aren’t we? How does change occur if we don’t talk about it? I bet most of our fanbase never even considered the possibility that these items may be offensive. The dialogue has started in light of recent events, which is a good thing. That doesn’t mean issues get to be dictated and get acquiesced without discussion though. There are some reasonable and valid items on that list. It’s the presentation that sucks. 

[Telegraph_it 3359]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Honestly we should until it gets to the point where it's no longer logical. There are absolute paths logically to understanding each and every single one of the requests from the student body, they are well organize and respectful in their request. 

These weren't demands, they were requests, and reasonable ones at that. If you think these were demands then IDK what to tell you.

Wait they aren’t demands? Just need to make sure what I’m reading elsewhere is false or misconstrued.

 

[TornACL 7722]

The article calls them demands, it's quite easy to read the source material yourself and draw your own conclusion. 

[Lurch 5931]

I wonder what the opposing arguments were when students on campus protested, and eventually put an end to, minstrel shows on campus in the 1960s.

“What’s next?”

[Telegraph_it 3359]

1 minute ago, TornACL said:

The article calls them demands, it's quite easy to read the source material yourself and draw your own conclusion. 

That’s fair. Immamac seems pretty clear that they aren’t demands. He must have inside knowledge some of us don’t. 
 

I think a dialogue would be great and some posters here have presented some good ideas. You just have to get through all the drivel first. 

[RollLeft 5045]

Just now, MrBig said:

What is wrong? John Sinclair only denied it was a joke on the UT President, he NEVER denied the fact it was performed at a minstrel show in blackface. 

No one denied it was performed at that show.  It is fact that it was!  So what.  

The proceeds of that show supported athletics.  Should we shut down the athletic dept?

The athletic dept didn't even recruit blacks until the 60's, actually being racist.  Again, should we shut it down?  The origin is racist.  

The university held minstrel shows.  Should we shut down the whole university? 

The university still had marble back stops to the black water fountains in some of the older buildings until the late 90's.  Should we tear those down?

And on and on....So what that it was introduced at that show?  What was the intent?

Do you know that blacks performed at minstrel shows.  They even had their own troupes mocking how ridiculous and easily amused whites were.  Are they racist? 

That song was written for the president who, they knew, would be attending that show.  It was NOT written as a joke or to be racist.       

[Telegraph_it 3359]

4 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

No one denied it was performed at that show.  It is fact that it was!  So what.  

The proceeds of that show supported athletics.  Should we shut down the athletic dept?

The athletic dept didn't even recruit blacks until the 60's, actually being racist.  Again, should we shut it down?  The origin is racist.  

The university held minstrel shows.  Should we shut down the whole university? 

The university still had marble back stops to the black water fountains in some of the older buildings until the late 90's.  Should we tear those down?

And on and on....So what that it was introduced at that show?  What was the intent?

Do you know that blacks performed at minstrel shows.  They even had their own troupes mocking how ridiculous and easily amused whites were.  Are they racist? 

That song was written for the president who, they knew, would be attending that show.  It was NOT written as a joke or to be racist.       

You are not getting it. 
 

Words matter. But when they don’t it’s the subtext that matters. But when it’s not that it’s the context that matters. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

48 minutes ago, MrBig said:

If a song can tear our fan base apart, then so be it. It’s just a song. It’s on those fans who choose to turn their back on this program because of a song with questionable origins. 

What I have suggested would involve the core function of the university -  research, historical analysis and reasoned debate with an outcome of reconciliation and joint understanding. The method you advocate is for continued cancel culture tactics that’s resulted in nothing but anger, recrimination and a mob action ethos that has led to major backlash in other situations. Want to avoid that for our university 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[Assman 1830]

Which option will help us win football games?  I want to do that one.

[Assman 1830]

You can say that again

Edited June 13, 2020 by Assman

[MrBig 5442]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

What I have suggested would involve the core function of the university -  research, historical analysis and reasoned debate with an outcome of reconciliation and joint understanding. The method you advocate is for continued cancel culture tactics that’s leave nothing but anger and recrimination that has led to major backlash in other situations.

It’s cancel culture to want to stop singing a song that was initially performed by 4 white guys in blackface with almost the exact same words we sing today. 

[GreenspointTexas 9678]

Cant we just change the school song to “Texas, Our Texas” and move on?

[victory88 5669]

Yeah, I'm not sure I would call them demands.  They literally put together a letter and handed it to our administration just like I'm sure Herman advised them to do if they wanted change.  The requests were obviously thought out and researched as I myself had no idea the song may have racist undertones.  They didn't say they were quitting the team.  They didn't riot.  They retweeted the the requests hoping to start a dialogue.  

This is 2020.  These players have options.  They don't beg to come play for Texas.  Our school and coach spend a lot of money and time recruiting these players to pick Texas over plenty of other good options.  They have every right to express themselves.  I think it's fair for them to say they won't participate in recruiting events or alumni events.  Why would they spend their own free unpaid time helping our administration and staff with no sporting events if they are not willing to listen to them.  
 

Also, given the current political climate, our administration has to be very careful on pushing back.  Our school has had a history of being racist during a certain period of time.   I don't find that to be true anymore, but I don't think it's the worst idea to get rid of certain traditions of our school that we should not be proud about.  Anyone want to talk about Texas being one of the last schools to integrate black players on the football team?  I'm sure similar conversations were held.  We don't need a full on situation like Mizzou had a few years ago.  Imagine our best players deciding to leave and play for other programs.  It's not like 5 star players are lining up to play for us.  Hell we can't even get our white 3rd generation legacy players with a brother on the team to come play for us.  Making one wrong move can have severe negative effects.  Imagine a mass exodus of our talented players that have other options and then trying to convince black players to come play for us when every regional and national school will use it as their #1 negative recruiting tool.  The NCAA has already set the precedent with Justin Fields that you can play immediately if you've experienced racism at your school.  The only winning solution and best solution for everyone is to have a good discussion and do what we can to support these athletes and bring positive change.  

[NeverMarryAStripper 21928]

Which option will help us win football games?  I want to do that one.

To tell you the truth, I no longer care.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

13 minutes ago, Mole said:

Tunes can absolutely have cultural associations absent any lyrics. These can be positive, negative, racist, or completely absent of racism. 

Taps is the first one that comes to mind (obviously not racist, but with no doubt a strong cultural meaning). It has a very powerful impact, no lyrics needed. That impact is due to the cultural associations. Someone unaware of the cultural meaning of Taps wouldn’t be particularly moved by it. I’m sure mocking performance of Taps would be offensive to many.

The question of minstrel songs and the more palatable versions that have arisen is a tricky, nuanced one. Unilaterally scrapping that entire body of literature might take us to some strange conclusions, but some of the music might be better left to more academic settings. 

I agree with the posts above that the best way out of this is through redeeming the darker parts of the song’s history through a charitable campaign. Make singing this song a positive act of solidarity for a more just and fair culture.

You can acknowledge the bad and turn it into something positive. You can also do it free of politics to the extent that being against racial discrimination is free from partisan politics. There’s a way to “save” the song, but the way involves facing the issue head on and acknowledging the hurt. Hand waving it away is a losing proposition at this point.

Like many on here, this is a specific issue that I haven’t considered before last night, so my opinion might change as I learn more. It seems like for some black Longhorns, this has been a point of contention for a while now, so it’s worth taking the time to understand.

 

 

Look up the history of taps. Not only was it also used by the confederacy, but it is derived from Scott’s tattoo.   Winfield Scott was Major player in the Indian removal act and forcibly removed numerous tribes. 
Id argue it has an even more racist origin than the eyes 

[RollLeft 5045]

1 minute ago, Xian said:

Look up the history of taps. Not only was it also used by the confederacy, but it is derived from Scott’s tattoo.   Winfield Scott was Major player in the Indian removal act and forcibly removed numerous tribes. 
Id argue it has an even more racist origin than the eyes 

Austin and Houston and half the towns in this state will have to change their names if we go down that road.  

[DaysOff 7975]

Our fight song is taps played fast. We are fucked.

[stone oak 639]

37 minutes ago, justhookit said:

I’ve fixed the song. You’re welcome.

The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
We cannot get away.
Do not think we can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon us
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

Best idea on the whole thread. Great compromise.

[RollLeft 5045]

10 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

You are not getting it. 
 

Words matter. But when they don’t it’s the subtext that matters. But when it’s not that it’s the context that matters. 

No, i'm clear.  The words of the song are not racist.  The subtext is that the author penned a song for the university and its president.  The context is that the non racist song was presented to that president at a racist gathering.  That is how far we have to stretch to connect the song to racism.   

[Telegraph_it 3359]

1 minute ago, RollLeft said:

No, i'm clear.  The words of the song are not racist.  The subtext is that the author penned a song for the university and its president.  The context is that the non racist song was presented to that president at a racist gathering.  That is how far we have to stretch to connect the song to racism.   

I’m with you. My facetiousness doesn’t always translate. 

[66BUFF 2565]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Maybe Dave Chapelle was on to something. We need to have an end all be all "Racial Draft" for all the marbles, agree that once it's done we good.  Only so many picks for so much stuff and like the fat kid who nobody wants if something gets left out....go play intramurals.  Lots to workshop there...might take some time to set up.  I'm sure Mel Kiper would try to predict it though.  

I'd like to take the Wu-Tang Clan please.

Konichiwa, bitches!

[texanbychoice 354]

Cant we just change the school song to “Texas, Our Texas” and move on?

No. Texas fought for the confederacy so that song is racist.

[Apex73 313]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

 

We have a responsibility to correct the mistakes of those before us, particularly ones that left systematic racism in place.

45. Plenty of time still to clean up from the selfish apathy of the prior generation.

 

Yea and we've done that to a magnificent degree.  What do you want?  A 100 percent no racist society.  Im sorry but that just doesn't seem realistic.  Is America more racist now than it was in 1960?  Please tell me how that happened.  The idea that magnificent progress hasn't been made on that is nonsense.  

[victory88 5669]

2 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

No, i'm clear.  The words of the song are not racist.  The subtext is that the author penned a song for the university and its president.  The context is that the non racist song was presented to that president at a racist gathering.  That is how far we have to stretch to connect the song to racism.   

So the song was presented, sang, introduced, and repeatedly sang again at these racist gatherings by white people with black face.  The words “the eyes are upon you” and “do not think you can escape them” have absolutely no racist undertones to them while being performed at a racist event with black face is what you are saying?
 

Let’s say you’re right because I’m just now educating my self on this.  How will anyone that is not an alum perceive this when espn and other news outlets blasts it on their national network?  Are you okay with Texas being perceived as a racist institution that won’t do something as simple as changing the words to a song that has enough evidence which can cause a big group of people to perceive it as arguably racist?  Like this song is that important to you?  Just curious?

[victory88 5669]

9 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

No, i'm clear.  The words of the song are not racist.  The subtext is that the author penned a song for the university and its president.  The context is that the non racist song was presented to that president at a racist gathering.  That is how far we have to stretch to connect the song to racism.   

Guys.... wearing a white hooded cap is NOT racist!  It was just introduced at a racist event!

[Brisketexan 105382]

Yea and we've done that to a magnificent degree.  What do you want?  A 100 percent no racist society.  Im sorry but that just doesn't seem realistic.  Is America more racist now than it was in 1960?  Please tell me how that happened.  The idea that magnificent progress hasn't been made on that is nonsense.  

Metaphor: I ate a lot of super unhealthy stuff for years, and I used to weigh 290. My ideal weight is 195. I’ve made magnificent progress, and now weigh 255.

I guess I should just declare victory, and tell anyone who reminds me that I have 60 lbs to go “fuck off, look how much progress I’ve made!”

Or...I could acknowledge that I’m still carrying around a lot of baggage from my past sins, and I’ve got a lot more work to do. That seems to be the better approach.

[formermav43 4606]

1 minute ago, victory88 said:

So the song was presented, sang, introduced, and repeatedly sang again at these racist gatherings by white people with black face.  The words “the eyes are upon you” and “do not think you can escape them” have absolutely no racist undertones to them while being performed at a racist event with black face is what you are saying?

It’s a statement that the President made to students. So you’re suggesting they instilled a coded message of white supremacy by comparing students to slaves. Is that what you are saying?

[HRSchenker 2274]

A fraternity brother was texting me this morning and reminded me that Canada changed their national anthem because "true patriot love in all thy sons command" was deemed to be sexist. Now it's "true patriot love in all of us command." Did Canadian women really find that song offensive? I find that hard to believe just like I find it hard to believe that The Eyes Of Texas is being dismissed as racist. 

But hey I believe in consistency. Now that we're moving forward away from racism and intolerance, I expect Tom Herman to restrict some of the music being played in the locker room. No more southern boy redneck nonsense. No more hip hop using racial slurs. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Or...I could acknowledge that I’m still fat.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

22 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Cant we just change the school song to “Texas, Our Texas” and move on?

Probably need to vet it.  

[Apex73 313]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Metaphor: I ate a lot of super unhealthy stuff for years, and I used to weigh 290. My ideal weight is 195. I’ve made magnificent progress, and now weigh 255.

I guess I should just declare victory, and tell anyone who reminds me that I have 60 lbs to go “fuck off, look how much progress I’ve made!”

Or...I could acknowledge that I’m still carrying around a lot of baggage from my past sins, and I’ve got a lot more work to do. That seems to be the better approach.

I didn't say we should stop trying to progress or stop talking about it.  I'm saying that I don't think this approach is progressive.  People are acting like we haven't made any progress and thats absurd.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Apex73