Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[texanbychoice 354]

Guys.... wearing a white hooded cap is NOT racist!  It was just introduced at a racist event!

You must be super tired from all the mental gymnastics you’re doing right now.

Should we change the name of Austin because SAF’s views on slaves? How about Washington DC and state? Fuck it, America should also be renamed. Because racism.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

22 minutes ago, Xian said:

Look up the history of taps. Not only was it also used by the confederacy, but it is derived from Scott’s tattoo.   Winfield Scott was Major player in the Indian removal act and forcibly removed numerous tribes. 
Id argue it has an even more racist origin than the eyes 

We should also look at certain political parties and their founders.  Andrew Jackson wasn’t exactly a nice guy.  Jim Crow and slavery were damn racist.  

[RollLeft 5045]

5 minutes ago, victory88 said:

So the song was presented, sang, introduced, and repeatedly sang again at these racist gatherings ...

Please present facts to support your statement.  By all accounts it was introduced at that one show.  .  

[victory88 5673]

1 minute ago, formermav43 said:

It’s a statement that the President made to students. So you’re suggesting they instilled a coded message of white supremacy by comparing students to slaves. Is that what you are saying?

No, I’m saying I understand why a young black man would not feel comfortable singing a song that was introduced and celebrated at embarrassing racist gatherings that depicted their own race as subhumans.  I don’t know how it feels because I’m not black.  But if our students and student athletes feel it has racist origins and and a racist background, I have no problems changing it.  Because at the end of the day, it won’t affect my life one bit.  But it may make our black athletes feel like our school cares about their heritage, history, adversity, and culture.  Just my opinion.

[Murfdogg21 4438]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

I’ve fixed the song. You’re welcome.

The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon us,
We cannot get away.
Do not think we can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon us
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

Somebody pitch this to the players ASAP so they can feel that they have affected change and others will know it was to reflect the University’s and Alumni’s disapproval of racism. 

[Lurch 5932]

Yea and we've done that to a magnificent degree.  What do you want?  A 100 percent no racist society.  Im sorry but that just doesn't seem realistic.  Is America more racist now than it was in 1960?  Please tell me how that happened.  The idea that magnificent progress hasn't been made on that is nonsense.  

No one is arguing that progress hasn’t been made. But, we’re CLEARLY not done, even if 100% isn’t attainable.

[mdmost 43074]

9 minutes ago, texanbychoice said:

You must be super tired from all the mental gymnastics you’re doing right now.

Should we change the name of Austin because SAF’s views on slaves? How about Washington DC and state? Fuck it, America should also be renamed. Because racism.

We should cancel oxygen because slave owners once breathed in oxygen. 

[victory88 5673]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

We should cancel oxygen because slave owners once breathed in oxygen. 

Or we could just change the words to a song and this would probably be dealt with quickly.  Actually seems like a very easy solution.  

[mdmost 43074]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Yes I’m fine with doing that. What I’m against is labeling something sung for decades without racial animus of alumni of all types as racist. Judge, jury and execution with no debate makes me sick. Investigate the history further. Make singing the EYES inclusive every week with “WE are the EYES” as @Bruno Sardine suggested. Getting rid of the Alma mater because SOME players THOUGHT it meant the eyes were on slaves is just wrong on so many levels. The assertion is false and getting rid of something cherished on a false basis will tear this fanbase apart. Don’t do that.

Yeah, the current players aren't saying that's the reason. It has everything to do with the minstrel history of the song. You're conflating what former players said with the current rational for the players. 

[mdmost 43074]

1 minute ago, victory88 said:

Or we could just change the words to a song and this would probably be dealt with quickly.  Actually seems like a very easy solution.  

Sarcasm, buddy. All this slippery slope shit is laughable. Everything is racist at one point so we must cancel everything is a strange knee jerk that shows the person has no interest in any conversation. 

[stone oak 639]

To be fair, Waterloo was a lot cooler.

[mdmost 43074]

Plus, it was an ABBA song.

[Murfdogg21 4438]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Sarcasm, buddy. All this slippery slope shit is laughable. Everything is racist at one point so we must cancel everything is a strange knee jerk that shows the person has no interest in any conversation. 

When one side says “You must white wash erase everything we find offensive based on our contemporary interpretations otherwise you are insensitive/racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-old...” it’s not much of a conversation either. 
 

Isn’t there value in bringing light to the minstrel shows and denouncing them without erasing a non-racist tradition that happened to have been performed at, but was in no way central to, said racist minstrel show? Your side in this seems very heels dug in about dropping the song, tearing down statues, renaming buildings, or whatever the newest demand is made based on what is determined to be offensive without pushback. 

[mdmost 43074]

1 minute ago, Murfdogg21 said:

When one side says “You must white wash erase everything we find offensive based on our contemporary interpretations otherwise you are insensitive/racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-old...” it’s not much of a conversation either. 
 

Isn’t there value in bringing light to the minstrel shows and denouncing them without erasing a non-racist tradition that happened to have been performed at, but was in no way central to, said racist minstrel show? Your side in this seems very heels dug in about dropping the song, tearing down statues, renaming buildings, or whatever the newest demand is made based on what is determined to be offensive without pushback. 

I'm pretty sure I said this is exactly what I think will happen out of all this. Ha, and my side. Yeah, I sent the demand letter to UT. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Your side in this seems very heels dug in about dropping the song, tearing down statues, renaming buildings, or whatever the newest demand is made based on what is determined to be offensive without pushback. 

That should he the motto for the cabal. Their members have chimed in to shut down this thread. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[mdmost 43074]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

That should he the motto for the cabal. Their members have chimed in to shut down this thread. 

Who are these members you speak of? Pretty sure I specifically said keep it open because it's an important conversation to have. You really love to play the victim. The evil cabal always out to get you. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by mdmost

[CDAK 216]

I thought a minstrel was just a wandering musician, and didn't understand the issue or headline.  Didn't realize there was a related but distinct definition about white people in blackface.  [Insert more you know rainbow]

[MrBig 5472]

32 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

Please present facts to support your statement.  By all accounts it was introduced at that one show.  .  

The Alcalde 1985

Read this article and tell me its original intention was not racist.

[mdmost 43074]

The letter from our players says "we ask the University to have the following addressed through implementation or a plan for implementation by the fall semester". And the next page isn't worded as demands, it's listed as "We officially request the following". So yes, they have things they would like to see changed. The threat to not participate in recruiting and donor events was if there was "no commitment by the University". Sounds like they want to have their requests addressed at a minimum. So now it's up to CDC and the administration to have a discussion with them. I'd imagine CDC will have a big sit down with everyone where they can talk and be heard. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by mdmost

[Armybrat 40942]

1 hour ago, TornACL said:

I wonder what the opposing arguments were when students on campus protested, and eventually put an end to, minstrel shows on campus in the 1960s.

I do not recall.
The Dean of A&S had kicked me out by then..... except for summer schools. Then Charlie Whitman happened.

[Armybrat 40942]

30 minutes ago, mdmost said:

We should cancel oxygen because slave owners once breathed in oxygen. 

Wear your fucking masks, you assholes.

Do you hate all olds?

[TornACL 7733]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

The letter from our players says "we ask the University to have the following addressed through implementation or a plan for implementation by the fall semester". And the next page isn't worded as demands, it's listed as "We officially request the following". So yes, they have things they would like to see changed. The threat to not participate in recruiting and donor event is if there was "no commitment by the University". Sounds like they want to have their requests addressed at a minimum. So now it's up to CDC and the administration to have a discussion with them. I'd imagine CDC will have a big sit down with everyone where they can talk and be heard. 

I will tell you one thing. I am fucking super glad we have CDC navigating this instead of that walking penis Steve Patterson.

[Armybrat 40942]

8 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I thought a minstrel was just a wandering musician, and didn't understand the issue or headline.  Didn't realize there was a related but distinct definition about white people in blackface.  [Insert more you know rainbow]

Yes there is... I posted the  UT Cowboys example.

From Hollywood, check out The Al Jolson Story.

[mdmost 43074]

11 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I thought a minstrel was just a wandering musician, and didn't understand the issue or headline.  Didn't realize there was a related but distinct definition about white people in blackface.  [Insert more you know rainbow]

We aren't living in the middle ages anymore, friend. 

[mdmost 43074]

3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I will tell you one thing. I am fucking super glad we have CDC navigating this instead of that walking penis Steve Patterson.

What's the jetpack guy equivalent of redoing our alma mater? Big and Rich with some Cowboy Troy thrown in, because, well you know. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by mdmost

[CDAK 216]

12 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I thought a minstrel was just a wandering musician, and didn't understand the issue or headline.  Didn't realize there was a related but distinct definition about white people in blackface.  [Insert more you know rainbow]

 

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

We aren't living in the middle ages anymore, friend. 

The definition I knew is the most common definition, friend.

minstrel

[ min-struh l ]SHOW IPA

SEE SYNONYMS FOR minstrel ON THESAURUS.COM

---

noun

1. a medieval poet and musician who sang or recited while accompanying himself on a stringed instrument, either as a member of a noble household or as an itinerant troubadour.

2. a musician, singer, or poet.

3. one of a troupe of comedians, usually white men in blackface, presenting songs, jokes, etc., and portraying negative racial stereotypes.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/instrument

 

Definition of minstrel

 

1: one of a class of medieval musical entertainers especially : a singer of verses to the accompaniment of a harp wandering minstrels

2a: MUSICIAN

b: POET

3a: a member of a type of performance troupe caricaturing black performers that originated in the U.S. in the early 19th century

NOTE: The acts of minstrels, who typically performed in blackface, featured exaggerated and inaccurate representations of black people in songs, dances, and comic dialogue. The popularity of minstrel shows in their heyday played a significant role in promoting negative racial stereotypes. Professional minstrel shows had fallen out of favor and effectively disappeared by the mid-20th century.

b: a performance by a troupe of minstrels : a minstrel show

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minstrel

[Art Vandelay 1712]

12 minutes ago, MrBig said:

The Alcalde 1985

Read this article and tell me its original intention was not racist.

I read it. Still not seeing the racist intent. Maybe you can enlighten us.

[formermav43 4606]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

What's the jetpack guy equivalent of redoing our alma mater? Big and Rich with some Cowboy Troy thrown in, because, well you know. 

Cowboy Troy is an alum.

[mdmost 43074]

3 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Cowboy Troy is an alum.

I'll try not to hold I Play Chicken with the Train against him. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by mdmost

[TornACL 7733]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

What's the jetpack guy equivalent of redoing our alma mater? Big and Rich with some Cowboy Troy thrown in, because, well you know. 

That fucking dickbag would have found a way to tell the student athletes to fuck themselves while also doing a $25K songwriting contest where the best jingle would be played not only after the game but during every commercial break sponsored by Rudys

[Armybrat 40942]

12 minutes ago, mdmost said:

We aren't living in the middle ages anymore, friend. 

Thanks for pulling your punches. 😙

[Murfdogg21 4438]

7 minutes ago, TornACL said:

That fucking dickbag would have found a way to tell the student athletes to fuck themselves while also doing a $25K songwriting contest where the best jingle would be played not only after the game but during every commercial break sponsored by Rudys

Taco Bell gong for new school fight song. 

[RollLeft 5045]

8 minutes ago, MrBig said:

The Alcalde 1985

Read this article and tell me its original intention was not racist.

I read it, again.  You did not respond to my last post with facts.  Now you offer a "look over here". Only what you offered confirms what we've already established.  An account that the author has rebuffed.  The song was not a joke.  We know this because even in the account you present even the lyrics of the song are addressed to the president, to whom the song was introduced.  The eyes of his students were upon him and he cannot get away.  He said it to them and they forever said it to him, even at his funeral.  

What is your point with your post?  Minstrels are racist gatherings.  We knew that, try harder. 

That has nothing to do with why the original song was written nor did the second version written directly for the president.  No mal or racist intent sung at a racist gathering that the president attended.  

Read your own piece.

[USNALonghorn 5078]

I vote The Ballad of Case McCoy as our next song.

[mdmost 43074]

9 minutes ago, TornACL said:

That fucking dickbag would have found a way to tell the student athletes to fuck themselves while also doing a $25K songwriting contest where the best jingle would be played not only after the game but during every commercial break sponsored by Rudys

Well, he would only do that after getting consensus from all the stakeholders. 

[BevoSwag 272]

I'd be all in 100% with the demands if only they had including banning the GD Jumbotron "musical" advertisements.  Please amend your demands.  Thank you from the 80 and over crowd.

[Sgt Hulk 13928]

Guys ya predict our win total this year.  With covid and the earth ending etc I’m down to 7 wins.  What say you

[B00M 6518]

Well this thread blew up. Have we reached a consensus? Is The Eyes doomed or nah?

[MrBig 5472]

5 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

I read it, again.  You did not respond to my last post with facts.  Now you offer a "look over here". Only what you offered confirms what we've already established.  An account that the author has rebuffed.  The song was not a joke.  We know this because even in the account you present even the lyrics of the song are addressed to the president, to whom the song was introduced.  The eyes of his students were upon him and he cannot get away.  He said it to them and they forever said it to him, even at his funeral.  

What is your point with your post?  Minstrels are racist gatherings.  We knew that, try harder. 

That has nothing to do with why the original song was written nor did the second version written directly for the president.  No mal or racist intent sung at a racist gathering that the president attended.  

Read your own piece.

Did you read it? This is a different article. 

A very seedy looking individual wearing an A&M sweater and carrying a dilapidated old valise appeared on stage. The interlocutor demanded, ‘Say, what you got in your bag?’

’A boll weevil.’

’Whar you gwine with it?’

’I’se gwine up to the University to show it to the president.’

’What for?’

’He’s gwine to make a speech to this here boll weevil. He’s gwine to tell it, ‘The eyes of Texas are upon you!’ 
 

How is this not racist?

[Art Vandelay 1712]

1 minute ago, MrBig said:

Did you read it? This is a different article. 

A very seedy looking individual wearing an A&M sweater and carrying a dilapidated old valise appeared on stage. The interlocutor demanded, ‘Say, what you got in your bag?’

’A boll weevil.’

’Whar you gwine with it?’

’I’se gwine up to the University to show it to the president.’

’What for?’

’He’s gwine to make a speech to this here boll weevil. He’s gwine to tell it, ‘The eyes of Texas are upon you!’ 
 

How is this not racist?

Because they were making fun of the dumb hick Aggie stereotype, just like we continue to do today.

Are you implying A&M had black students in 1903?

[Hiphopopotamos 20889]

 

[RollLeft 5045]

11 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Did you read it? This is a different article. 

A very seedy looking individual wearing an A&M sweater and carrying a dilapidated old valise appeared on stage. The interlocutor demanded, ‘Say, what you got in your bag?’

’A boll weevil.’

’Whar you gwine with it?’

’I’se gwine up to the University to show it to the president.’

’What for?’

’He’s gwine to make a speech to this here boll weevil. He’s gwine to tell it, ‘The eyes of Texas are upon you!’ 
 

How is this not racist?

How about you name me a public place in Austin or any city in the U.S. in 1903 where black people were welcome and that wasn't racist?  Our own government segregated them for another 50 years.  Also blacks didn't even attend our fine institution until 50 years after this took place.  Have some fkn perspective.     

Edited June 13, 2020 by RollLeft

[Neonmoon 38130]

https://link.medium.com/Xdk8dmrii7

“I’ve been working on a railroad” is a historically racist song. It was based on another minstrel song called the “Levee Song” which has some terrible lyrics. It was sang at minstrel shows by white people in blackface. They sang these songs mocking black people. And when minstrel shows became taboo because of that whole racist thing, the song got rebranded as a old community song and the words were corrected from black caricature dialect to corrected English grammar. And it was marketed somewhat as a children’s song. Just good old whitewashing of its origins. 

So a white student took an historically racist song, that was created for and sang at minstrel shows to mock black people, changed the lyrics to it to mock the sitting University President at a campus minstrel show where students dressed in black face to sing songs mocking black people. A University President that had a catchphrase “the eyes of Texas are upon you”  that was taken from Robert E. Lee’s catchphrase at W&L, “the eyes of the South are upon you”. And those words are definitely still in the song. 
 

But it’s not racist??

That’s the hill everyone wants to die on? 
 

 

 

[Nivek 17011]

7 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

You eat paint chips as a kid?

Of course you didn't get the sarcasm.   

[Sgt Hulk 13928]

The storm trooper whites are too white if you know what I’m saying. Should prob drop them. Too 

[Eggo 3997]

8 hours ago, EastTexan said:

I don't know, but every university in these United States of America probably has some racist history in its past.

Yale used to have a quota on how many Jews they'd let in for fear of turning off the American elite. 

That being said, you stick racism behind a glass case and read about it. You don't perpetuate it because it's history/heritage. 

[Apex73 313]

Its just a witch hunt.  Nothing more and nothing less.

[Brisketexan 105478]

Its just a witch hunt.  Nothing more and nothing less.

Then we probably shouldn’t have named a bunch of our buildings after witches. And put up statues of people whose claim to fame was being leaders of witches. And we shouldn’t have failed to include non-witches on our football team until 19 freaking 70.

[Brothahorn 10087]

On 6/12/2020 at 3:33 PM, Armybrat said:

Indeed they do....

This is from my 1963 Cactus - The show was at Gregory Gym, IIRC:

Shit, does this mean we have to cancel ArmyBrat?

 

Seriously, glad to see the thread is still open. How can we ever expect to move forward and solve these types of issues if they cannot be discussed openly? No matter how uncomfortable or embarrassing it may be.

 

Take the emotion out and this is nothing but a business decision the school will have to make. Let's hope they choose wisely. 

[Apex73 313]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Then we probably shouldn’t have named a bunch of our buildings after witches. And put up statues of people whose claim to fame was being leaders of witches. And we shouldn’t have failed to include non-witches on our football team until 19 freaking 70.

Thats not what any of this is about.  Like I said before, nobody gave a shit about this until the recent narrative changed.  Now people are just looking for reasons to be outraged.  Its sjw culture part 2.  Welcome to the land of microaggressions, safe spaces, no nuances, and no going against the ideology or you are a terrible person.