Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Celery Man 20934]

i think we've moved on and I'm not reading anything but just want to state that "Sweet Caroline" is bad because that is a Red Sox thing. We don't need to do Red Sox things.  Journey is bad because that song is fucked out. Way fucked out, South Austin's mom fucked out and not just "it got fucked out and now it's back!", but "it got fucked out and then a new generation discovered it and just fucked it out, 15 years ago"

[TornACL 7698]

Just now, Apex73 said:

I agree they kill too many people but I also agree that its one of the hardest jobs to do.  They need more training and funding.  Not to be defunded.  When people get defunded do you think they feel the incentive to do a better job?  They only killed a little over 200 black people last year which we agree is still too high.  But it doesn't support your opinion.

This is a discussion for another thread, of which there are many. 

My last comment on the police, until we go back to silly school songs is, it's their mother fucking job. I don't give a fuck how incentivized they feel not to kill people. 

Back to the Eyes of Texas, it's clear that this is a symbol. Which is why the student athletes have targeted it. And why people are angry about it. 

It's a fascinating subject, and people bring a lot of extra shit to the discussion. I sympathize with those who are coming from a place of pure nostalgia. I don't sympathize at all with people who angry because black kids are finally realizing their leverage. 

I actually root for the kids to prevail, even though I would miss the song, because I know how irate it would make people who are total pieces of shit. 

[BrickHorn 18218]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

“I’ve been working on a railroad” is a historically racist song. It was based on another minstrel song called the “Levee Song”

I would 100% support replacing The Eyes with When the Levee Breaks. Preferably Led Zep, but the original Memphis Minnie / Kansas Joe McCoy version would be fine too. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by BrickHorn

[Apex73 313]

6 minutes ago, TornACL said:

This is a discussion for another thread, of which there are many. 

My last comment on the police, until we go back to silly school songs is, it's their mother fucking job. I don't give a fuck how incentivized they feel not to kill people. 

Back to the Eyes of Texas, it's clear that this is a symbol. Which is why the student athletes have targeted it. And why people are angry about it. 

It's a fascinating subject, and people bring a lot of extra shit to the discussion. I sympathize with those who are coming from a place of pure nostalgia. I don't sympathize at all with people who angry because black kids are finally realizing their leverage. 

I actually root for the kids to prevail, even though I would miss the song, because I know how irate it would make people who are total pieces of shit. 

Well I certainly think its unfortunate that you think people with different views than you are pieces of shit.  No room for nuance.  No room for thinking.  Maybe I would support it if it actually meant something but it in no way makes the situation any better.  Im not angry at the kids themselves, but I do not support mob justice with no room for discussion.    

[Capn81 372]

Winning will ease a lot of feelings. Losing will amplify. It will be interesting come October to see how it plays out.

[MrBig 5396]

Just now, Apex73 said:

Well I certainly think its unfortunate that you think people with different views than you are pieces of shit.  No room for nuance.  No room for thinking.  Maybe I would support it if it actually meant something but it in no way makes the situation any better.  Im not angry at the kids themselves, but I do not support mob justice with no room for discussion.    

We’re discussing The Eyes of Texas and whether or not the initial presentation of the song by a blackface quartet singing to a banjo was racist. You’re the one who started talking about your black friends and their lack of fathers. Quit deflecting the argument here.

[TornACL 7698]

2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Well I certainly think its unfortunate that you think people with different views than you are pieces of shit.  No room for nuance.  No room for thinking.  Maybe I would support it if it actually meant something but it in no way makes the situation any better.  Im not angry at the kids themselves, but I do not support mob justice with no room for discussion.    

Your last sentence shows you have no fucking idea what is going on. THAT IS WHAT THEY ASKED FOR. DISCUSSION

That's what is going to happen. CDC already said it himself. 

I never said that anyone with a different opinion from me is a piece of shit. I know there are people angry about this who are pieces of shit. Can you understand the difference? 

[EuroHorn 3260]

Whatever we do, just make it so you don’t bob the hook’em horn hand sign until the end 

[Not a cat 5652]

1 hour ago, Xian said:

Speaking of small elite schools.  I have a feeling the leaders over at rice are shitting bricks right now. 

Interesting.  I did not know that about Rice until I looked it up after reading your post.  I bet pretty much any private school named after a generous benefactor has problems.  Stanford for sure.  Guys that got incredibly rich in that time period weren't exactly woke.

[Horn Draoi 255]

29 pages, and maybe I’m woke!  Dump “Eyes” and just send Johnny Bush a check—“Whiskey River” is doubtlessly perfect for our last 10 years with only few little tweaks.  Or will we have to send him/his publishing company a check after every game?  Rename the buildings, remove the statues—it’s a university striving to be of the first class, not a minor league football team.............maybe we should focus on the real mission............

[Apex73 313]

10 minutes ago, MrBig said:

We’re discussing The Eyes of Texas and whether or not the initial presentation of the song by a blackface quartet singing to a banjo was racist. You’re the one who started talking about your black friends and their lack of fathers. Quit deflecting the argument here.

Sorry the facts make you feel uncomfortable.

[Neonmoon 38129]

46 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

I don’t believe you provided proof of any kind that the song expresses racist sentiment. What in the words of the song are racist?
You’ve described the origins of the song. I’m talking about the meaning of the words.

Is the modern version of”I’ve been working on the railroad” forbidden in modern society because the original version had racist lyrics? I’m not aware that it is and I’ve got you kids who sang this song in kindergarten. I think people have accepted that despite its racist origin, the modern version of the song is just a kids song about working on a train, nothing more, nothing less.

First off, I shouldn't have to prove to you that singing a racist song with different lyrics is okay. Maybe at the University of Texas, we should strive for a higher bar. Maybe. 

The words "The eyes of Texas are upon you" were copied by University President Prather from Robert E. Lee's phrase "the eyes of the South are upon you". Now, again, I don't think co-opting a slogan from the head general of the confederate army is where we should set the bar at the University of Texas. And before you respond with the words don't mean anything explicitly racist by saying Texas is watching you. I agree, but I don't live in the fairy tale world where context doesn't exist. I wouldn't walk up to a group of black guys at work and say man "they boss is working me like a slave today". There is nothing racist by those words. There have been slaves all over the world. From Egypt to Africa to China. It is commonly known slaves were not treated well. But when you put in the context that black people were slaves in the country I reside, I think man, probably shouldn't say that. 

To your next point of "I've been working on a railroad" isn't forbidden in modern society. I would say...yet. It isn't forbidden yet. Now we can discuss the reasons why it isn't forbidden, but its' mainly because the majority of the population is white and we haven't done a bang up job of listening to black people the past 400 years. So the past 100 years, like the Lost Cause changing the children's textbooks to say the civil war was about heritage and states rights, we all know that is bullshit. So when people began to stop being super openly racist at minstrel shows, all the white did, was change the grammar of the lyrics from mocking uneducated black people to the correct grammar. And they put the songs in childrens schools so little kids could sing about the hardships of railroad work. And it wasn't racist? Why? because the white people said it wasn't. The black people could say it was, but guess what, nobody gave a fuck about songs back then, they were busy enough trying to eat in the same restaurant and go to the same schools. That was only 50-60 years ago. So yeah, no one gave a fuck about the University's song, since the University didn't even admit black people until 1956. It took 14 years before a black person was allowed to play football in 1970. It took a little time to change the schools' song. 

[Tex Pete 20342]

12 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Whatever we do, just make it so you don’t bob the hook’em horn hand sign until the end 

Finally someone said it!

[clapclapclap 9000]

14 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

First off, I shouldn't have to prove to you that singing a racist song with different lyrics is okay. Maybe at the University of Texas, we should strive for a higher bar. Maybe. 

The words "The eyes of Texas are upon you" were copied by University President Prather from Robert E. Lee's phrase "the eyes of the South are upon you". Now, again, I don't think co-opting a slogan from the head general of the confederate army is where we should set the bar at the University of Texas. And before you respond with the words don't mean anything explicitly racist by saying Texas is watching you. I agree, but I don't live in the fairy tale world where context doesn't exist. I wouldn't walk up to a group of black guys at work and say man "they boss is working me like a slave today". There is nothing racist by those words. There have been slaves all over the world. From Egypt to Africa to China. It is commonly known slaves were not treated well. But when you put in the context that black people were slaves in the country I reside, I think man, probably shouldn't say that. 

To your next point of "I've been working on a railroad" isn't forbidden in modern society. I would say...yet. It isn't forbidden yet. Now we can discuss the reasons why it isn't forbidden, but its' mainly because the majority of the population is white and we haven't done a bang up job of listening to black people the past 400 years. So the past 100 years, like the Lost Cause changing the children's textbooks to say the civil war was about heritage and states rights, we all know that is bullshit. So when people began to stop being super openly racist at minstrel shows, all the white did, was change the grammar of the lyrics from mocking uneducated black people to the correct grammar. And they put the songs in childrens schools so little kids could sing about the hardships of railroad work. And it wasn't racist? Why? because the white people said it wasn't. The black people could say it was, but guess what, nobody gave a fuck about songs back then, they were busy enough trying to eat in the same restaurant and go to the same schools. That was only 50-60 years ago. So yeah, no one gave a fuck about the University's song, since the University didn't even admit black people until 1956. It took 14 years before a black person was allowed to play football in 1970. It took a little time to change the schools' song. 

The confederates and slaveowners wore shirts and pants, ergo we should must ban shirts and pants.

Why haven't we already banned cotton as a material?

Edited June 13, 2020 by clapclapclap
And cotton candy

[Lhorn 4913]

First off, I shouldn't have to prove to you that singing a racist song with different lyrics is okay. Maybe at the University of Texas, we should strive for a higher bar. Maybe. 

You were the one who claimed to have provided proof.  Since you said you provided proof, I asked you to clarify.  Don't make statement which is demonstrably untrue if you aren't willing to be challenged.

"There is already proof that the words indirectly and directly express racism."

 

Your link was the origin of the song and the phrase the "the eyes of Texas" not what the is the meaning of the lyrics we currently use.  I can certainly hear an argument about the origins of the song, but to say that the lyrics mean something racist.  I don't see it.  

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

 

@HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats, why are both of you so sure you understand those view points of people different from you? How many Canadian women have you talked to about this issue? What about black students or athletes? Why do you presume your opinion is the universal one? I am not saying that either one of you is wrong, by the way, but the surety of knowing someone else's mind is surprising to me.

How do you know they are so different from Mr Schenker and myself? I'm pretty sure you know nothing about me or my background. I guess time will tell if these changes make a difference. I guess from now on everyone on this board everyone should start with IMO before 90% of posts.

Edited June 14, 2020 by CfRhTxStBobcats

[RomaVicta 29905]

1 hour ago, Apex73 said:

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  

The other side. 

You're entrenched. You don't have in depth conversations with the other side. You don't know what they feel or think. Even if you did, you'd dismiss it.

You won't change until there is an ironclad case (to be determined by you) that something is racist. The fact that a group of black people say something is offensive means nothing to you. You're an intellectual who must hear the facts laid out in a case, or so you like to see yourself.

You don't know me. But I do. You're walking and quacking like the other ducks.

The fact is, there is no convincing you. You're dug in. Your side has taken a position that everybody else is pushing narratives and hidden agendas to spoil your world. It's clear where you hail from. It's becoming a scary place. I wish I could pity you, but I can't. You're too destructive.

In the last few pages, I see the usual suspects are taking the same stance and repping each other like crazy.

Until I see an ironclad argument that you're not racist, I don't see a reason to change my mind. Sound familiar? It's genuine prejudice.

Edited June 13, 2020 by RomaVicta

[TwiceHorn 31450]

4 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Cant we just change the school song to “Texas, Our Texas” and move on?

Now that is a lame-ass song.

[Lhorn 4913]

Now that is a lame-ass song.

When non Texas people hear “The Eyes” they always point out “that’s just I’ve been working on the railroad with different lyrics. “It’s not exactly a masterpiece of musical composition.

[Apex73 313]

13 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The other side. 

You're entrenched. You don't have in depth conversations with the other side. You don't know what they feel or think. Even if you did, you'd dismiss it.

You won't change until there is an ironclad case (to be determined by you) that something is racist. The fact that a group of black people say something is offensive means nothing to you. You're an intellectual who must hear the facts laid out in a case, or so you like to see yourself.

You don't know me. But I do. You're walking and quacking like the other ducks.

The fact is, there is no convincing you. You're dug in. Your side has taken a position that everybody else is pushing narratives and hidden agendas to spoil your world. It's clear where you hail from. It's becoming a scary place. I wish I could pity you, but I can't. You're too destructive.

In the last few pages, I see the usual suspects are taking the same stance and repping each other like crazy.

Until I see an ironclad argument that you're not racist, I don't see a reason to change my mind. Sound familiar? It's genuine prejudice.

Uhh it's easy. You have no evidence of me being racist so you have no backing to that claim.  That's not my position at all.  I'm saying that this is a small stunt that is being made to take the eye off the obvious problems though not intentionally.  But whatever man.  Keep thinking anyone who disagrees is a racist.  It doesn't help anything and nobody cared about it until recently was my point.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Apex73

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

12 minutes ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

How do you know they are so different from Mr Schenker and myself? I'm pretty sure you know nothing about me or my background. I guess time will tell if these changes make a difference. I guess from now on everyone on this board everyone should start with IMO before 90% of posts.

I don't know. I even stated explicitly that I am not saying you are wrong. I agree that I know nothing about you or your background, so I am not sure why you think that I do. I only thought it was odd that you both stated that you were sure you knew how other groups felt. I don't think you need to add IMO to your post as that is implied. But if I stated that (to just make up an example) Indian people just fucking love Burger King, I would expect to be called on that if that is contrary to expectation.

To be quite clear, I know nothing about the Canadian National Anthem situation, as an example. I do presume, however, that in that case, women felt more aggrieved and tried to change the anthem. It is still a mystery to me why @HRSchenker then feels certain that they didn't feel it sexist. And again, to be, clear, he may be right! But is this surety coming from talking to anyone affected? Same for you? Have you talked to black students or former athletes about the names of buildings? Maybe you have, I don't know. Please enlighten me!

[Apex73 313]

59 minutes ago, TornACL said:

This is a discussion for another thread, of which there are many. 

My last comment on the police, until we go back to silly school songs is, it's their mother fucking job. I don't give a fuck how incentivized they feel not to kill people. 

Back to the Eyes of Texas, it's clear that this is a symbol. Which is why the student athletes have targeted it. And why people are angry about it. 

It's a fascinating subject, and people bring a lot of extra shit to the discussion. I sympathize with those who are coming from a place of pure nostalgia. I don't sympathize at all with people who angry because black kids are finally realizing their leverage. 

I actually root for the kids to prevail, even though I would miss the song, because I know how irate it would make people who are total pieces of shit. 

Yea the police are just going out looking for people to shoot up.  Jesus Christ the world isn't a giant liberal arts campus.  

[TornACL 7698]

3 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Yea the police are just going out looking for people to shoot up.  Jesus Christ the world isn't a giant liberal arts campus.  

This is a pathetic response. I hope it's the whiskey talking. I am willing to give you a mulligan once you sober up. 

[Apex73 313]

Just now, TornACL said:

This is a pathetic response. I hope it's the whiskey talking. I am willing to give you a mulligan once you sober up. 

Well nearly all of your responses have been pathetic so I guess Im just trying to catch up.

[Huckleberry 32851]

10 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Yea the police are just going out looking for people to shoot up.  Jesus Christ the world isn't a giant liberal arts campus.  

Not only is this stupid, it makes no sense whatsoever. At least most stupid posts have some kind of connection to the post they're responding to, even if only tenuous at best. This effort here is just pathetic.

[RomaVicta 29905]

I think we should change the words to the Aggie War Hymn (their cheers are yells and their fight song is a war hymn. goofballs) and adopt that. They don't own the tune which is Goodbye My Coney Island Baby. It'd be fun to watch their heads explode as they try to deal with absurdity instead of embrace it as truth.

Goodbye to College Station babies

Stand up for the burnt orange and the whi-ite

Hello to the Fightin' Texas Longhorns

Stampeeee-eding everyone in sight sight sight sight.

 

Home to all Texas' sons and daughters

In their hands the future lies

In Texas' eyes!

So farewell you rambling Texas Longhorns

You're going to lead them all to

Chigarigarum Chigarigarum

What in the hell does that all mean?

 

 

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

I'm still in favor of Shatner or something equally ultra-cringey, but:

 

41 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The words "The eyes of Texas are upon you" were copied by University President Prather from Robert E. Lee's phrase "the eyes of the South are upon you". Now, again, I don't think co-opting a slogan from the head general of the confederate army is where we should set the bar at the University of Texas.

Just based on which face it came out of, or....?  He would apparently say that to university students, which Prather was one, in the late 1860s.  

[Gatorubet 30209]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Then we probably shouldn’t have named a bunch of our buildings after witches. And put up statues of people whose claim to fame was being leaders of witches. And we shouldn’t have failed to include non-witches on our football team until 19 freaking 70.

Witchfinder General Thou-Shalt-Not-Commit-Adultery Pulsifer's statue stays up then?

[RomaVicta 29905]

24 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Uhh it's easy. You have no evidence of me being racist so you have no backing to that claim.  That's not my position at all.  I'm saying that this is a small stunt that is being made to take the eye off the obvious problems though not intentionally.  But whatever man.  Keep thinking anyone who disagrees is a racist.  It doesn't help anything and nobody cared about it until recently was my point.

You put the Ape in Apex.

(I've been dying for an opportunity to use that for years. Nothing personal.)

[TornACL 7698]

7 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Well nearly all of your responses have been pathetic so I guess Im just trying to catch up.

Sober up, rummy.

[Apex73 313]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

You put the Ape in Apex.

(I've been dying for an opportunity to use that for years. Nothing personal.)

thats actually pretty funny

[Apex73 313]

16 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Sober up, rummy.

Please fall on your own sword of self righteousness.

[Apex73 313]

Btw I honestly don't care if they change the names and tear down the statues.  Just seems stupid and like its not going to make a real impact.  The song is what I don't think should be changed just because it could have been perceived as racist a long time ago. That's reaching.  My point was everyone is everyone is going to walk away from this and forget about it soon.  Then something else will happen and the problems we aren't addressing still won't be fixed and they will demand more change.  Its an endless cycle from that perspective.

[ShowMeALoss 143]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:51 PM, ShowMeALoss said:

This is like saying if you don't like some of American laws, go live in a different country, which is what racist people say. 

"Move back to the country wherever it is that you came from" is a common racial slur. As a minority, I heard people say that to me in posh places like La Jolla as I was just walking on the street. As I was browsing Twitter today, I found this gem:

We can't tell our black athletes to go where they would feel more comfortable. We can't compare ourselves to schools like Bama or OU and say, we are much better when it comes to race matters. We need to set our own standard. I am so fucking happy that race issues are making so many people uncomfortable because it's about time we change as people.

 

[bullet 1596]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

i think we've moved on and I'm not reading anything but just want to state that "Sweet Caroline" is bad because that is a Red Sox thing. We don't need to do Red Sox things.  Journey is bad because that song is fucked out. Way fucked out, South Austin's mom fucked out and not just "it got fucked out and now it's back!", but "it got fucked out and then a new generation discovered it and just fucked it out, 15 years ago"

Red Sox don't own Sweet Caroline.  Sweet Caroline is everywhere.  I've heard it at Fenway.  I've heard it at Tennessee.  I've heard it at Georgia.

[TreatyOak 16313]

Apologies to all the smarter minds here if someone has already mentioned this point, but rather than promising to contribute .05% of profits to Black Lives Matter, which is a political movement (and I have no idea what they would do with the money,) I feel way more people would get behind this proposal if the money was fairly distributed to historically Black universities throughout the state. While you contemplate this thought, here is a picture of an attractive woman.

 

[bullet 1596]

4 hours ago, MrBig said:

The Alcalde 1985

Read this article and tell me its original intention was not racist.

Its original intent was not racist.  Easy.

[bullet 1596]

2 hours ago, TornACL said:

The data absolutely supports my opinion. The police kill too many people. 

It also supports the opinion that they disproportionately kill black people. You're just too stupid to understand how numbers work. 

Are you going to share with us that OAN video? Please. Please, do. 

That's what a Black Harvard professor said.  But nobody in MSM quotes him.  He did the study after Ferguson and was surprised to find that Blacks were no more likely to be shot  by police in the US as a whole.  Actually found that in Houston, whites were 20% more likely to be shot.  He did find that Blacks were more likely to be mistreated.  But not shot.

[Apex73 313]

1 minute ago, bullet said:

That's what a Black Harvard professor said.  But nobody in MSM quotes him.  He did the study after Ferguson and was surprised to find that Blacks were no more likely to be shot  by police in the US as a whole.  Actually found that in Houston, whites were 20% more likely to be shot.  He did find that Blacks were more likely to be mistreated.  But not shot.

Careful.  Facts make some people uncomfortable here.

[Sejjr 3246]

I suppose we will soon be eliminating and scrubbing from our history the "Star Spangled Banner." Francis Scott-Key was a slave owner and a devout racist. He also wrote this song before slavery was abolished. That song has FAR more racist underpinnings than "The Eyes of Texas." The problem is, there is no end to this type of racist apology tour when it comes to the history of the world. You could likely find something racist or horrible in nearly every product, brand, building, town name, etc., if you look deep enough. Hugo Boss was a fucking Nazi that designed the SS Uniform, yet that label is very popular today. Bayer aspirin is one of the best selling drugs in the world, yet, that company also manufactured Zyklon B and encouraged Josef Mengele to test their drugs at Auschwitz. How many Chinese workers have died working to manufacture Apple products? Or Nike and their history of using a child labor force? What are the limits to social acceptance of shitty historical track records? And who is the arbitrator of which historical outrage gets selected for deletion? John Cleese made an funny point the other day: "The Romans enslaved the British for 400 years. Should we be demanding reparations from the Italians?"

I understand that we can and should always strive to do better, especially in light of what we know today versus our past; a past full of racism or human rights abuses. But I also wonder where this culling ends?

[Henry Hill 3156]

 

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Not only is this stupid, it makes no sense whatsoever. At least most stupid posts have some kind of connection to the post they're responding to, even if only tenuous at best. This effort here is just pathetic.

Honest question: Is your handle derived from Huckleberry Finn?

[Apex73 313]

13 minutes ago, Sejjr said:

I suppose we will soon be eliminating and scrubbing from our history the "Star Spangled Banner." Francis Scott-Key was a slave owner and a devout racist. He also wrote this song before slavery was abolished. That song has FAR more racist underpinnings than "The Eyes of Texas." The problem is, there is no end to this type of racist apology tour when it comes to the history of the world. You could likely find something racist or horrible in nearly every product, brand, building, town name, etc., if you look deep enough. Hugo Boss was a fucking Nazi that designed the SS Uniform, yet that label is very popular today. Bayer aspirin is one of the best selling drugs in the world, yet, that company also manufactured Zyklon B and encouraged Josef Mengele to test their drugs at Auschwitz. How many Chinese workers have died working to manufacture Apple products? Or Nike and their history of using a child labor force? What are the limits to social acceptance of shitty historical track records? And who is the arbitrator of which historical outrage gets selected for deletion? John Cleese made an funny point the other day: "The Romans enslaved the British for 400 years. Should we be demanding reparations from the Italians?"

I understand that we can and should always strive to do better, especially in light of what we know today versus our past; a past full of racism or human rights abuses. But I also wonder where this culling ends?

It doesn't.  And a lot of people don't even really care about these issues, they are just mining for morality points.  

[NWAustinDude 2252]

Give the players everything they want. Time for historic change. Time to heal up more on 400 years of oppression. Bring people together and not tear them apart. Will help recruiting when we get to point out all the racism and racist symbols held onto by our opponent schools. 

[BevoSwag 272]

3 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

The storm trooper whites are too white if you know what I’m saying. Should prob drop them. Too 

Please don't be givin 'em any more ideas!

[ShowMeALoss 143]

16 minutes ago, bullet said:

That's what a Black Harvard professor said.  But nobody in MSM quotes him.  He did the study after Ferguson and was surprised to find that Blacks were no more likely to be shot  by police in the US as a whole.  Actually found that in Houston, whites were 20% more likely to be shot.  He did find that Blacks were more likely to be mistreated.  But not shot.

It's a lot more than statistics and statistics will often lie if you don't take into consideration various other things. Blacks and minorities are more afraid of Police and are likely to do something stupid to avoid being arrested or abused. If a white person is being shot by a police officer, it's more likely that he was a criminal and was trying to avoid being arrested or attacked the officer. So I would argue that the circumstances that lead to these shootings are unlikely to be similar.

Police brutality is a problem all around the world. Majority of the people don't experience it but for those unfortunate who experience it on a regular basis, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. We, as a society, have given too much power to lowly trained officers, some of whom just relish too much in the power they have over their fellow citizens. Without checks, all powerful people misuse it.

[Knighthawk 284]

I can’t go through 29 pages to see if it’s been stated but -

these dudes better ball out and win 10 or 11 in the regular season or the fans are going to turn ugly.   

I’ll be rooting for them, with my wallet and my heart.  A little worried this is going to add extra pressure to already stressful situations late in games.   Hope they are able to deliver.  

[Lhorn 4913]

Song isn't racist.  This is stupid ploy to gain attention to other issues. I'll be out if they change the song.  

I think it’s fair to ask if this isn’t low hanging fruit? Is this the real change we need or is it just an easy “W,” all the while those responsible for real problems: literacy rates, differences in sentences between blacks and white for the same crime, predatory bank loans, differences in health care outcomes, etc skate and the world goes on as it did before?

[bullet 1596]

17 minutes ago, Sejjr said:

I suppose we will soon be eliminating and scrubbing from our history the "Star Spangled Banner." Francis Scott-Key was a slave owner and a devout racist. He also wrote this song before slavery was abolished. That song has FAR more racist underpinnings than "The Eyes of Texas." The problem is, there is no end to this type of racist apology tour when it comes to the history of the world. You could likely find something racist or horrible in nearly every product, brand, building, town name, etc., if you look deep enough. Hugo Boss was a fucking Nazi that designed the SS Uniform, yet that label is very popular today. Bayer aspirin is one of the best selling drugs in the world, yet, that company also manufactured Zyklon B and encouraged Josef Mengele to test their drugs at Auschwitz. How many Chinese workers have died working to manufacture Apple products? Or Nike and their history of using a child labor force? What are the limits to social acceptance of shitty historical track records? And who is the arbitrator of which historical outrage gets selected for deletion? John Cleese made an funny point the other day: "The Romans enslaved the British for 400 years. Should we be demanding reparations from the Italians?"

I understand that we can and should always strive to do better, especially in light of what we know today versus our past; a past full of racism or human rights abuses. But I also wonder where this culling ends?

It doesn't end.  Abe Lincoln was a racist and wanted to ship the slaves back to Africa.  There's a reason Liberia's capital is named Monrovia.

Democrats are already disowning Jefferson and Jackson.  They cancelled their traditional Jefferson-Jackson dinner.  Two Columbus statues got attacked.  They even attacked the 54th Regiment memorial in Massachusetts!!!! (the all Black Civil War regiment in the movie Glory).  They have desecrated the grave of Henry Grady here in Atlanta (from the "new south" movement of the late 1800s-he was too young to be a Confederate).

And while what I read about RLM is problematic, the others are a stretch.  Without Littlefield, the university would not be what it is today.  Painter was a premier geneticist who happened to be the president during the integration lawsuits of the 50s.  Hogg was a prominent governor and citizen of the late 1800s ("new south" era).  Basically they are saying nothing can be named after white people who came of age before the 1960s.

The Eyes of Texas stuff is just plain stupid.

 

 

[Apex73 313]

8 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

It's a lot more than statistics and statistics will often lie if you don't take into consideration various other things. Blacks and minorities are more afraid of Police and are likely to do something stupid to avoid being arrested or abused. If a white person is being shot by a police officer, it's more likely that he was a criminal and was trying to avoid being arrested or attacked the officer. So I would argue that the circumstances that lead to these shootings are unlikely to be similar.

Police brutality is a problem all around the world. Majority of the people don't experience it but for those unfortunate who experience it on a regular basis, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. We, as a society, have given too much power to lowly trained officers, some of whom just relish too much in the power they have over their fellow citizens. Without checks, all powerful people misuse it.

I actually agree with most of that.

[bullet 1596]

9 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

It's a lot more than statistics and statistics will often lie if you don't take into consideration various other things. Blacks and minorities are more afraid of Police and are likely to do something stupid to avoid being arrested or abused. If a white person is being shot by a police officer, it's more likely that he was a criminal and was trying to avoid being arrested or attacked the officer. So I would argue that the circumstances that lead to these shootings are unlikely to be similar.

Police brutality is a problem all around the world. Majority of the people don't experience it but for those unfortunate who experience it on a regular basis, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. We, as a society, have given too much power to lowly trained officers, some of whom just relish too much in the power they have over their fellow citizens. Without checks, all powerful people misuse it.

The fear of Blacks of police is real.  No doubt about that.  Police brutality is a problem.  No doubt about that.  The problem with both of these is that things ARE getting better.  They are moving in the right direction.  NYC police killed something like 15-20 people last year.  In 1971 the number was 810.  Eight hundred and ten!!!!