Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[David Dennison 18,924]

4 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Most frustrating part is Texas continues to get crucified in the national spotlight yet they are the only school in Texas doing anything. A&M hasn’t done a damn thing even after their athletes demanded a statue be taken down. Where’s the outage there? 

Pretty sure the public has different expectations when it comes to Texas and aggy. They expect aggy to be aggy.

[Machinator 32,099]

 

[David Dennison 18,924]

11 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I am all for letting them opt out of being scholarship athletes at Texas.

We know.

[Tex Pete 20,401]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

We know.

You've repeatedly cheer-led for ditching The Eyes. Page after page after page after page. 

I don't need advice on what "we know" from you. You probably have more posts on this thread than anyone else. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

30 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

This is one of the guys I totally expected not to believe the report. He is very dug in and accepting the report would be admitting he is wrong. BTW he totally cares if the song stays or go as he has planted his flag on this issue regardless of facts. 

Why I'm sure it wasn't a stated goal, I can't imagine any finding that would have resulted in UT eliminating the EOT. 

[randygilman 643]

Maybe Vance is just... i don't know, but there has been a FUCKTON of discussion about other issues related to the university of texas. 

How hes' missed it while screaming on twitter every day, I don't know. 

[Machinator 32,099]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Why I'm sure it wasn't a stated goal, I can't imagine any finding that would have resulted in UT eliminating the EOT. 

On the contrary; the University explicitly stated that the song would remain. This report was about fact-finding.

[maninblack 7,974]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

On the contrary; the University explicitly stated that the song would remain. This report was about fact-finding.

That will be the new narrative from the idiot brigade. 

[babysdaddy 2,725]

7 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You've repeatedly cheer-led for ditching The Eyes. Page after page after page after page. 

I don't need advice on what "we know" from you. You probably have more posts on this thread than anyone else. 

not probably. He has 423 posts as of right now.  Next closest is BO&W with 237 although I'm guessing half of those are reminding DD that his EOT takes are wrong, retarded, and he should feel bad.

[RollLeft 5,045]

28 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

This is one of the guys I totally expected not to believe the report. He is very dug in and accepting the report would be admitting he is wrong. BTW he totally cares if the song stays or go as he has planted his flag on this issue regardless of facts. 

He is not wrong.  His mind was made up prior to the posting of this report.  That a 9 month discussion just occurred by a diverse panel including a professor of African Diaspora who heads the council of Black Equity & Diversification at Texas seem like facts Vance doesn't want to discuss, much less respect.  He would do better to argue that more should/could be done or to call upon this community to build upon this foundation.  Since he gives no respect, in this matter, he deserves none.

[Newy25 7,695]

13 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You've repeatedly cheer-led for ditching The Eyes. Page after page after page after page. 

I don't need advice on what "we know" from you. You probably have more posts on this thread than anyone else. 

His ability to get so many things wrong so consistently is truly astounding. And the lack of awareness to be so wrong yet so active in the conversation over and over again makes Michael Scott blush. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Newy25

[texashorne 1,178]

14 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

Where can I get Quan's hat? 

[Newy25 7,695]

Even sight unseen on the merits of the issue itself, who would you rather align yourself with? Quan Cosby or Caden Sterns? Which one of those two better represents the traits and values you more closely align with as a person? 

For me that’s a very easy answer. 

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

1 minute ago, texashorne said:

Where can I get Quan's hat? 

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

2 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Even sight unseen on the merits of the issue itself, who would you rather align yourself with? Quan Cosby or Caden Sterns? Which one of those two better represents the traits and values you more closely align with as a person? 

For me that’s a very easy answer. 

maybe the one with a degree from the university? i dunno.

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

8 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Even sight unseen on the merits of the issue itself, who would you rather align yourself with? Quan Cosby or Caden Sterns? Which one of those two better represents the traits and values you more closely align with as a person? 

For me that’s a very easy answer. 

Easy. One guy was on offense and made hits like this...

 

...the other guy played defense and avoided hits.

And also give me the guy that’s open-minded and willing to listen to the facts.

Edited March 9, 2021 by CowtownHorn

[clapclapclap 9,000]

2 hours ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Has DD finally pissed enough people off that we can neg him to Bolivia?  I'll happily unblock him to do my part

*Mizzouri

 

(Though to be clear, I'm not a proponent of neg bannings.)

Edited March 9, 2021 by clapclapclap

[Sgt Hulk 13,788]

Expected some big mad babies after the report. Thank you committee let’s get back to football and winning the. B12

[Newy25 7,695]

7 minutes ago, CowtownHorn said:

Easy. This guy was on offense and made hits like this...

 

...the other guy played defense and avoided hits.

Need a gif of Sterns diving at the Tech receiver’s feet to avoid contact. It’s also a good metaphor for his complete whiff on this entire subject. 

[pearlandhorn 3,274]

40 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Most frustrating part is Texas continues to get crucified in the national spotlight yet they are the only school in Texas doing anything. A&M hasn’t done a damn thing even after their athletes demanded a statue be taken down. Where’s the outage there? 

Because no one gives a flying fuck about A&M?

[strangulation! 1,716]

50 minutes ago, randygilman said:

I could not have thought of a better group of 26 to be on that committee, including one of the most prominent current athletes on campus in Eggleston, a Longhorn legend like Quan, brilliant professors like Brands and Rivas-Rodriguez, and of course Reddick himself. Well done all around, even if it was months later than it could have been. 

Richard Reddick's wallet says bad mother fucker on it

[Tex Pete 20,401]

1 hour ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

This is one of the guys I totally expected not to believe the report. He is very dug in and accepting the report would be admitting he is wrong. BTW he totally cares if the song stays or go as he has planted his flag on this issue regardless of facts. 

I think Vance is a great Longhorn. If he can’t recognize that Texas is very diversified (and becomes more so by the day), he’s being obtuse.
 

Also, the facts surrounding the song existed for over a hundred years before this committee was formed. Literally nothing about the song has changed. The committee’s findings only reflect that. Let’s all move forward with a spirit of unity and love for OUR University. 

[UncleSonny 6,573]

It's pretty funny the amount of real estate DD takes in some of your heads but by all means keep dunking on him if it makes y'all feel good. God knows he has been pretty annoying in this thread. 

Pretty embarrassing for you guys to keep harping on Sterns though. Yeah, he's not good at football and we'll likely be better without him on the field, but what about this is so offensive to you guys? 

 

 

[Machinator 32,099]

Spoiler

A few years ago, I stopped listening to Michael Jackson songs if I had the choice. This isn’t because I didn’t love “Thriller” or “Beat It” or “Rock With You.” Like millions of other kids who grew up in the 1980s, I wore out my copy of the Thriller cassette and begged my parents to let me buy Bad when it arrived in stores. But the more information that emerged about Jackson and his relationship with children later in life, the less I could stomach listening to those songs. Jackson 5 tunes feel different because Michael himself was a child at the time, but the songs he recorded as an adult are tough to listen to after digesting that information. I don’t think these songs should be banned from the radio. I don’t care if anyone else listens to them. But I would prefer not to.

Plenty of us have made decisions about the music of Jackson or Chris Brown or R. Kelly. Artists who make their political beliefs known have been tuned out if those beliefs differ from those of a particular listener. That isn’t limited to either side of the political spectrum. It has happened to Kid Rock, and it has happened to the Dixie Chicks. That last group is from Texas and has recently rebranded itself as just The Chicks, and that probably makes this the best place to jump off and explain why we’re talking about music in a football column. A song has become a major issue in a major football program, and what makes this so thorny is different people hear different things when they hear a song — whether it’s the lyrics, the instrumentation, the origin or the perceived intent of the artist.

And all of those things matter when we’re talking about “The Eyes of Texas” as it relates to the Texas football team.

On Tuesday morning, a committee commissioned by the University of Texas released a 57-page report examining the history of the school song, which for decades has been sung by fans and by the members of the Texas football team following games. Last year, Black students from across the campus — including some athletes — demanded that the song be replaced as part of a list of desired actions by the university. Many of these were taken by the school, including stripping the name of unabashed racist Robert Lee Moore from a campus building and erecting a statue of Julius Whittier, the football program’s first Black letterman. But “The Eyes” remains the alma mater. The argument predictably spilled into sports because the most prominent playing of the song is after football games. It mushroomed when a large group of players decided to remain in the locker room following the loss to Oklahoma. Never mind that this was not a normal game and there was a significant delay because a healthy chunk of time passed while Oklahoma players remained on the field to celebrate their four-overtime rivalry win. A photo endured. That photo enraged the Texas fans who believe the team should stand and sing the song. The ensuing debate brought donors to their keyboards, and the Texas Tribune last week offered a sampling of what Texas administrators were told by their fans and contributors. Meanwhile, several players said they were warned not staying on the field for the song would result in donors pulling money or post-college job opportunities evaporating.

The findings of the report attempt to contradict the belief that the song has racist origins. According to previously accepted lore, the phrase “the eyes of Texas are upon you” was first uttered during Texas president William Prather’s inaugural speech in 1899. According to the tales passed down by the university and by the alumni association, the phrase was an homage to a postbellum statement attributed to Confederate commanding general Robert E. Lee while Prather was a student at Washington College in Virginia. A few years later, some students wrote a song referencing the phrase and poking fun at Prather. The song was first performed in 1903 at a minstrel show where white performers likely wore blackface. What makes this case particularly interesting is that the recent pushback against the song didn’t emerge from anyone providing new information. The song’s defenders decry “the narrative” that has made the song controversial, but that narrative was established over decades by the university itself.

The report released Tuesday attributes this to mistakes in the memory of former engineering dean T.U. Taylor, from whose 1938 memoir emerged the previously accepted tale of the song’s provenance. The committee finds no evidence that Lee, while president of Washington College while Prather was a student, said “the eyes of the South are upon you.” But the report does use Prather’s own words in a 1900 speech — which may have included the actual first utterance of the phrase “the eyes of Texas are upon you” — to trace the phrase back to Confederate general Maxcy Gregg. This excerpt of that speech, according to the report, was printed in the University Record.

“I recall reading an incident during the battle of the Wilderness at a time when it looked as if the day was lost,” he said. “General Robert E. Lee rode up and felt the emergency was upon him ‘What brigade is this?’ he asked of the commanding officer, Gen. Gregg. ‘The Texas brigade,’ was the answer. ‘When you strike the enemy, charge them,’ said Gen. Lee. ‘Texans always move them.’ Then taking off his hat, he rode forward and proposed to lead them. General Gregg gave the command: ‘Attention, Texas Brigade! Forward! The eyes of General Lee are upon you!’ This day, young ladies and gentlemen of the College, I give you your marching orders for the session, ‘Forward! The eyes of Texas are upon you!’”

Holding up any act by the Confederate army as heroic would have been considered completely normal among a group of white people in Texas in 1900. Back then, most of those people never would have considered that a Black person might have a completely different perspective. But in 2021, we do understand that. So saying “it wasn’t Robert E. Lee; it was this other Confederate general talking about Robert E. Lee” isn’t going to make the song any more attractive to people who have every right to be offended by anything involving the Confederacy. The report is exhaustive, and it does an excellent job of providing context for the singing of the song throughout its history — including the times when it has been a protest song. But this only underscores the issue. There is no one-size-fits-all way to feel about a piece of music.

By its very nature, music affects everyone differently. At Texas, the various constituencies have spent far too much time arguing about the song itself and not about what actually matters specifically in this case, which is this: It is generally inadvisable to force someone to participate in the singing of a song that person believes to be inappropriate, and it is objectively foolish to try to force football players to stand on the field for a song they dislike when the acquisition of the best players requires those players to choose your institution over similar ones that will not require them to do that.

Think of it this way. I left Sports Illustrated in 2019 to work at The Athletic. If The Athletic forced me to sing “Dirty Diana” in public every time I filed a story as a condition of my employment, I would have stayed at SI or gone to a different company. It wouldn’t have mattered to me if the founders of The Athletic considered “Dirty Diana” to be a sacred song because it isn’t a sacred song to me. And that’s really what we’re talking about here. At its core, “The Eyes of Texas” is a spoof of a Dean Wormer-esque university president set to the tune of “I’ve Been Working On The Railroad,” a song that — seriously checkered history notwithstanding — is one of the dumbest things we were forced to sing in preschool. None of that is in dispute. So why waste so much time worrying about it?

“The Eyes of Texas” is a very important piece of music only if you graduated from Texas and loved your four years in Austin. For the rest of us — and this includes the vast majority of the football players the Texas coaching staff would like to choose Texas instead of Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Alabama, LSU or Ohio State — it’s a meaningless ditty at best. Depending on your own experience and how the history of the song hits you, it may feel like an insult that so many people happily sing it. So when new Longhorns coach Steve Sarkisian stands and says players will “sing that proudly,” coaches at programs that recruit the players Texas wants take notice. They’ve already added this to their recruiting pitch: “Do you really want to go to a place where they’re going to force you to stay on the field for a song you think is racist?” This is the lowest hanging recruiting-battle fruit imaginable.

Some of you may be yelling at your screens now. The song, you’re saying, isn’t racist. But here’s the problem. In terms of the business of winning football games, it doesn’t matter if you think it’s racist. It only matters what recruits think. And it really only matters what the best recruits think. Some may have no issue with the song. They’ll sign with Texas. They’ll stand for the song and sing. But not every prospect will feel that way. Expect coaches of the Longhorns’ rivals to offer versions of the song’s history with a message that Texas will force them to sing it, and expect Sarkisian and athletic director Chris Del Conte to have to swallow hard when a player they really want asks “So I have to stand there for that song?” Because in that moment, it only matters how that player feels about the song. And just as he probably can’t make you feel the way he feels about it, you probably can’t make him feel the way you feel about it. This is the part where a little empathy could go a long way.

Unless you write seven-figure checks to the Texas athletic department, that elite recruit’s opinion matters a lot more than yours. And even if you write seven-figure checks, that recruit’s opinion might still matter more. How much was Ricky Williams’ attendance at Texas worth? How about Vince Young’s? Is it worth missing out on the next such player because you want to make him sing the same song you sing and have it mean the same thing it means to you?

This is the part where the song’s defenders bemoan “cancel culture.” But what is cancel culture if not the market reacting to new information or a change in societal mores? Some of you may threaten to cancel your subscription to this very site because you disagree with what I’ve written here. Are you participating in cancel culture by literally canceling something? If that’s what you want to call it. But the truth is you’re entitled to feel however you want about what I write, and you shouldn’t pay for it if you don’t feel it’s worth your $6.99 a month. Someone tries to cancel Chick-fil-a every other week. Yet the lines continue to wrap around the block. Why? The answer isn’t entirely ideological. Those waffle fries are delicious, and nobody else can serve that many diners that efficiently in one lunch rush. So Chick-fil-a endures. If the song packs enough meaning for enough people, it will survive this. But if it doesn’t, then it probably wasn’t worth all this hand-wringing in the first place.

The solution in terms of the football program has been obvious all along, but the Texas administration keeps getting in its own way because the Texas administration almost always gets in its own way. The leaders at Texas fail to understand what the administrations at Alabama, Oklahoma and Ohio State grasp completely. Want donors to donate? Win championships. Want donors to complain? Don’t win championships.

No matter what a donor might say in an e-mail, that person would much rather have a national championship football team than a team that sings a particular song after the game. And the way you win national titles is by not playing yourself when it comes to the pursuit of championship-level players. Yes, Texas A&M has its players sing a song after games. But its most controversial aspect is a call to saw off the horns of the Texas mascot. Only aspiring PETA members are going to object. (Texas A&M players did object to a statue of Sul Ross on campus, but the difference between that statue and this song is that they don’t have to ever have anything to do with that statue if they don’t want to.) Ohio State players sing, too. But only those offended by lavishing praise on our nation’s 17th state (“Carmen Ohio”) or by catchy 60s jams (“Hang On Sloopy”) would complain. If Alabama players had to stick around and sing “Rammer Jammer” (they don’t), a word from Nick Saban about how the two-minute delay harms the preparation for the next opponent would put an end to the practice without complaint. Besides, Alabama fans are just happy to once again be allowed a second-half singalong of “Dixieland Delight,” a song from a native band (Alabama, naturally) about having sex in a truck on the side of the road in Tennessee that was banned for several years because fans made the lyrics even bawdier.

The solution for Texas is simple. Play the song after each game. Whoever wants to sing it can sing it. But if some players head to the locker room instead of raising the Hook ’em sign and singing, don’t get mad. Don’t give it another thought. Worry about whether they can beat Oklahoma and win the Big 12 for the first time since 2009.

Ultimately, the Longhorns who don’t want to sing the song and the fans who want everyone to sing it do have at least one desire in common — for Texas to win football games. Ripping current players and making the program tougher to sell to future players doesn’t help Texas win football games. The best way to handle this and win more is to respect how the players feel about the song. Those who wish to sing can sing. They can stay on the field and celebrate with the fans or they can go to the locker room and celebrate with one another. Or Longhorns leadership can keep getting in its own way by trying to dictate how a song should make another person feel. If they continue, they’ll probably wind up on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of the win-loss column.

 

[Guest Lobo]

52 minutes ago, maninblack said:

 

I also love that they left off the Vice Provost for Diversity who's absolutely worthless. 

Maybe they left off the vice provost, And maybe you feel that person is worthless... because that person nor that position exists at the University of Texas.  It’s a massive bureaucracy, I get it.  But if you’re trying to toss around pithy Accusations and Point fingers at people of color in the tower, maybe know who the fuck you’re talking about next time

[TrashMaster G 17,566]

13 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

It's pretty funny the amount of real estate DD takes in some of your heads but by all means keep dunking on him if it makes y'all feel good. God knows he has been pretty annoying in this thread. 

Oh, please.  I'm pretty sure 98% of the people responding to him here to give him another though outside of this thread.  So that amount of real estate is precisely negligible.

[maninblack 7,974]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Maybe they left off the vice provost, And maybe you feel that person is worthless... because that person nor that position exists at the University of Texas.  It’s a massive bureaucracy, I get it.  But if you’re trying to toss around pithy Accusations and Point fingers at people of color in the tower, maybe know who the fuck you’re talking about next time

Look in the mirror pal

https://provost.utexas.edu/the-office/#:~:text=Vice Provost for Diversity&text=Edmund Gordon promotes diversity%2C equity,Diversity and Inclusion Action Plan.

https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/aads/faculty/gordonet

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by maninblack

[BurntOrangeBlooded15 1,566]

51 minutes ago, texashorne said:

Where can I get Quan's hat? 

https://www.laststandhats.com/products/university-of-texas-state-1883-curved-bill-1

[DanTheHorn 4,936]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

This!

If bigots founded the song to celebrate slavery (report says no), then their song was sung most proudly after the MNC in 2005 to celebrate an African American kid by the name of Vince Young and all his teammates that had just won us and most of all themselves the biggest prize to that point of their athletic careers.

[UncleSonny 6,573]

27 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Oh, please.  I'm pretty sure 98% of the people responding to him here to give him another though outside of this thread.  So that amount of real estate is precisely negligible.

If I am correctly parsing whatever you are actually trying to say, I'm completely sure your 98% percent number is 100% made up by you. Facts, not feelings do matter after all.

Like I said, go for it, he mostly brought it on himself but it's still funny. 

[David Dennison 18,924]

1 hour ago, Tex Pete said:

You've repeatedly cheer-led for ditching The Eyes. Page after page after page after page. 

I don't need advice on what "we know" from you. You probably have more posts on this thread than anyone else. 

No kidding.

[JesusSweatDuck 17,784]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

*Mizzouri

 

(Though to be clear, I'm not a proponent of neg bannings.)

Some people are just better off not being able to post their thoughts on the internet

[Deej 76,835]

15 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Some people are just better off not being able to post their thoughts on the internet

New motto?

[closetohumping 17,452]

4 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

but Robert E Lee essentially invented the song. You're clearly racist.

He and hitler sang it as a duet at a Düsseldorf bier garten 

[Run Run Run Punt 145]

5 hours ago, elguapo said:

It's funny seeing grown men in here spiking the football over a silly little song, but whatever.

I don't think this dumb controversy is going away yet unfortunately, a significant segment of the fanbase seems to have convinced themselves that the song has racist origins and I don't see this report changing most of their minds.

Hmm so one side not accepting facts because it doesn't support their point of view?  Shocking. 

[JesusSweatDuck 17,784]

https://captiongenerator.com/2164777/Eyes-Of-Texas

 

Too lazy to try to make it funny

[cdain3 3,454]

[Run Run Run Punt 145]

5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

And I will have my Horns Up and sing it at the end of every game, just like I always do.

Hmm going to be hard to sing while you are fucking yourself in your own ass. 

[Billy Pilgrim 1,972]

13 minutes ago, cdain3 said:

 

This right here is some good advice.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

12 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

This right here is some good advice.

is he talking to Vance?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

38 minutes ago, cdain3 said:

 

 

[Run Run Run Punt 145]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I understand that. But their symbols are still around, and I personally choose not to give any money to support their continued existence. I don't try to convince other people to join me, it is a personal preference that stays personal. Well I guess unless a thread like this happens to exist.

If the exact same people who work for Mercedes Benz were doing their exact same jobs in their exact same locations under a different company name and brand I would have no issue buying from them. But I'm not going to buy from a company that sought out forced slave labor from concentration camps. To many people it seems silly and that's fine, but it's my opinion that symbolism matters so if the companies had dissolved and reformed with different names, branding, and leadership but the same assets I would purchase from them.

So did you just not watch the 2018 Sugar Bowl?  Or do you just draw the line on driving their vehicles?

[ousux 5,597]

It's pretty funny the amount of real estate DD takes in some of your heads but by all means keep dunking on him if it makes y'all feel good. God knows he has been pretty annoying in this thread. 
Pretty embarrassing for you guys to keep harping on Sterns though. Yeah, he's not good at football and we'll likely be better without him on the field, but what about this is so offensive to you guys? 
 
 

Nothing bad about what he said, but a little misleading. The list of demands included getting rid of the EOT, not changing the lyrics. Even so, there is nothing overtly racist in lyrics as they are..

[Tex Pete 20,401]

Now that the matter is settled: keep your horns still until “...’Til Gabriel blows his horn!”

Damned players never did that right. 

[perfectchaos007 6,675]

Critics have been fairly quiet since the EoT report released. I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing but I assume it’s good news for those in favor of keeping the song 

[Hookem2147 21,343]

 

[UncleSonny 6,573]

13 minutes ago, ousux said:

Nothing bad about what he said, but a little misleading. The list of demands included getting rid of the EOT, not changing the lyrics. Even so, there is nothing overtly racist in lyrics as they are..

The demands were getting rid of the EOT with a sub-bullet point to stop requiring athletes to stay and sing it. I've always taken that to mean they pretty much knew asking the University to dump the EOT altogether was a reach. 

You're right, he loses the thread and confuses the issue by bringing up the lyrics. There are outright attacks on his character in this thread though. Certainly that is based on more than "should be more clear and focused in his talking points during Skype interviews"

[Huckleberry 33,006]

37 minutes ago, Run Run Run Punt said:

So did you just not watch the 2018 Sugar Bowl?  Or do you just draw the line on driving their vehicles?

Are you under the impression that my watching that game gave them money? Do you understand how advertising works? They have to spend more money the higher viewership is.

(Although it's a few steps away in the process when stadium naming rights are negotiated)

Edited March 9, 2021 by Huckleberry

[Nueces River Rat 5,539]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

What about Japanese companies?  Mitsubishi's connection is obvious.  Subaru is/was Nakajima.  Nissan built trucks and vehicles for the IJA, as did Toyota.

Japan wasn't as systematic as Germany, but is certainly responsible for a lot of murderous atrocities.

Yea, Ask the  civilians of the different islands and countries they occupied during and before the War how brutal they were along with our own servicemen who were POW's.  They came  in second place in the brutality category to the Germans.

I recall back in the 70's and 80's, some of the WWII Vets  I knew were pretty steadfast about not driving Japanese cars.... until some of them got sick and tired of the crap Detroit was putting on the market and they even had enough of it.  By the late 80's going into the 90's, some of the Greatest Generation traded their FORD Crown Vics and Chevy Caprice  for a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord.   It might have helped during that time span that  Honda and Toyota made a big deal about transitioning the manufacturing of  those two models of cars  to the USA and gave it a Made in the USA name tag.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Nueces River Rat

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

I skimmed this thread and it appears folks believe that Lee and the confederacy played no role in origin of the Eyes.  Have folks read the report?  I recommend you get to at least page 11.  

Quote

In a speech on November 15, 1900, to an incoming class of UT medical students, Prather admonished the young men and women to do their very best. “I recall reading an incident during the battle of the Wilderness”—in the Civil War— “at a time when it looked as if the day was lost,” he said. “General Robert E. Lee rode up and felt the emergency was upon him. ‘What brigade is this?’ he asked of the commanding officer, Gen. Gregg. ‘The Texas brigade,’ was the answer. ‘When you strike the enemy, charge them,’ said Gen. Lee. ‘Texans always move them.’ Then taking off his hat, he rode forward and proposed to lead them. General Gregg gave the command: ‘Attention, Texas Brigade! Forward! The eyes of General Lee are upon you!’ This day, young ladies and gentlemen of the College, I give you your marching orders for the session, ‘Forward! The eyes of Texas are upon you!’”

  There is more.  Folks should read page 11 of the report.  https://utexas.app.box.com/s/5o2a1klri1htyhq3mziyxdjgxvegprjj