Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[GTNY 284]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Is "this song is racist" the only reason a person might have to not participate in its performance?

Was there any reason they weren't participating before "this song is racist" claim?

[David Dennison 19,135]

5 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Just keep fuckin' that chicken, man!  Wooooo!!!!!

We aren't going to lose our collective shit when a lone player is left to serenade the fans at the Cotton Bowl, right?

[Cajun 11,766]

5 minutes ago, GTNY said:

Was there any reason they weren't participating before "this song is racist" claim?

Because it takes away from their Twitter/Selfie/Instagram time.

Duh!

[BurntOrange&White 40,546]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The team seems fine with letting each other choose. If they are fine with it, why are you trying to be offended on their behalf? What is your actual goal here?

I think best route will be letting the team vote what to do. Letting the team decides as a team is the best option. Imo the best thing for chemistry is letting the team make the decision as a whole what they will do. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Cajun 11,766]

I see the false choice Olympics have begun.

predictable

[Cajun 11,766]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We aren't going to lose our collective shit when a lone player is left to serenade the fans at the Cotton Bowl, right?

If UT had cut the song, that'd be it for outrage of the week/month/year, right?  I mean, there would be zero movements to change anything else, right?  You/they'd all be satisfied, right?

Oooooh, this is a fun game!

[MAUFRAIS 6,680]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So a black student-athlete might realize that a lot of the white faces out there are thinking, "That's right, boy, you do what you're told." as he stands there thinking he's sharing a meaningful moment with his Longhorn community. I can see that destroying the whole emotional connection for that young black athlete and I respect that.

[bad_teammate 13,328]

9 minutes ago, Cajun said:

I see the false choice Olympics have begun.

I think what's more accurate is that you don't want to answer the question and deal with the reality that faces us as Longhorn fans.

Next year, the players have been told they have a choice whether or not to participate.

What is your reaction going to be if a player chooses not to? Are you going to create drama and problems for our university or are you going to keep your mouth shut and mind your business? If that's a false choice, please explain the option being left out.

[Tex Pete 21,049]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We aren't going to lose our collective shit when a lone player is left to serenade the fans at the Cotton Bowl, right?

I think it would definitively show that there are a bunch of selfish assholes on the team. Pretty sure people would be pissed about that. 

Maybe since it sounds like asking players to stand with their teammates after the game while a song is played is a really tough ask, we could have equipment managers turn the benches around so they can sit with their teammates. Surely that's not going too far out of their way.

Or maybe they could just transfer somewhere that doesn't have such stringent expectations for the players whose education is being paid for by fans and taxpayers.

[TwiceHorn 31,702]

40 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What would you call it when the University of Texas System includes that narrative in its bio for William Prather? 

https://www.utsystem.edu/board-of-regents/former-regents/william-lambdin-prather

Now it says "reportedly heard."  I wonder if that's new.

Handbook of Texas  points out Lee worship, but doesn't attrribute EOT to Lee.  Apparently taken from AAS obituary from 1905.

Are you trying to argue that the University is estopped from presenting a different set of facts?  

Even if the phrase was adapted from a Lee speech made to the Knights of the White Camellia wearing a hood in front of a burning cross, the serendipitous path by which it came to be incorporated into the school song mostly absolves it of the racist connection.

The words themselves have no literal racist meaning and no non-literal racist connotation. It's a real stretch to say they somehow acquire such a meaning or connotation by reason of having been uttered by a racist in a literally different form.

I will grant that other innocuous phrases can acquire horrific meaning by reason of having been used in a certain context by a certain speaker.  For example, "the final solution."  But the context has to be less ambiguous and equivocal than this one.

[Machinator 32,099]

I very much doubt we are going to see a Cotton Bowl situation again. That was a perfect storm.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

2 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I think it would definitively show that there are a bunch of selfish assholes on the team. Pretty sure people would be pissed about that. 

Maybe since it sounds like asking players to stand with their teammates after the game while a song is played is a really tough ask, we could have equipment managers turn the benches around so they can sit with their teammates. Surely that's not going too far out of their way.

Or maybe they could just transfer somewhere that doesn't have such stringent expectations for the players whose education is being paid for by fans and taxpayers.

Jesus, some of y'all almost make me wish every Black player on the roster would hit the portal just to shut you fucks up. But of course you wouldn't -- we'd get the "Well, Bye" meme a thousand times and a California-sized vineyard of sour grapes. But hey, at least the whole all white team would be out there singing with you after all those victories, right? 

[Steel Shank 9,440]

Maybe I should drop a mixtape to make people of all colors feel better.

[Tex Pete 21,049]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Jesus, some of y'all almost make me wish every Black player on the roster would hit the portal just to shut you fucks up

I'm trying to figure out the issue at this point. This is not about race to me, and I can't understand why people are making it about race. Every team has expectations of its players. Tom Herman crashed the plane into the mountain because he refused to have standards in spite of being told to do so.

What is there to protest? No one is making anyone sing anything (and they never were). The song is not racist (and it never was). Why are some of you crying so much?

[David Dennison 19,135]

8 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I think it would definitively show that there are a bunch of selfish assholes on the team. Pretty sure people would be pissed about that. 

Maybe since it sounds like asking players to stand with their teammates after the game while a song is played is a really tough ask, we could have equipment managers turn the benches around so they can sit with their teammates. Surely that's not going too far out of their way.

Or maybe they could just transfer somewhere that doesn't have such stringent expectations for the players whose education is being paid for by fans and taxpayers.

They should take a knee. Ooooh, or better yet, raise a fist.

Fun!

[Cajun 11,766]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Jesus, some of y'all almost make me wish every Black player on the roster would hit the portal just to shut you fucks up. But of course you wouldn't -- we'd get the "Well, Bye" meme a thousand times and a California-sized vineyard of sour grapes. But hey, at least the whole all white team would be out there singing with you after all those victories, right? 

Would you have Earl and Ricky go with them?

Asking for a friend.

[po elvis 2,094]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Jesus, some of y'all almost make me wish every Black player on the roster would hit the portal just to shut you fucks up. But of course you wouldn't -- we'd get the "Well, Bye" meme a thousand times and a California-sized vineyard of sour grapes. But hey, at least the whole all white team would be out there singing with you after all those victories, right? 

Why do you think all black players are the same?

[Cajun 11,766]

Just now, po elvis said:

Why do you think all black players are the same?

Funny, ain't it?

 

[GTX Horn 1,725]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Can someone correct if anything is wrong about this timeline:

------

Last summer: shit hits the fan, request to change song made by players (among other things)

Later in summer: UT announces changes (RLM, Whittier statue, etc.), song remains. Met with minimal pushback from players

First few football games: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existent

*OU GAME*: Ehlinger is pictured as lone player singing The Eyes, people get mad

Remainder of football games: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existent

Offseason: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existant until...

Texas Tribune publishes article: Most emails are from around OU game, some are blatantly racist, players relay previous threats made by boosters

Texas publishes findings: No apparent pushback from players

------

So it seems to me, unless I'm forgetting something, aside from the perfect storm of circumstances/misunderstandings resulting in Sam being alone in Dallas (and a few sporadic social media posts from players), this sure seems like a controversy that was more or less resolved last summer that has only stayed alive due to articles rehashing the controversy.

I'm glad the official report was issued, and I feel like the it will go a long ways towards getting the band back on board, but at this point this really seems the impact of The Eyes being played on players/recruits is being overblown. (If anything, the emails from the Tribune would be of much more concern to me in that regard, but I think we can do damage control on those racists.) I'm not saying the players are thrilled to hear the song, but the national narrative of "The school is holding the players hostage by keeping the song" doesn't really seem to be an accurate take any longer. 

 

There was also The Daily Texan story in October about a survey of band members in which quite a few said they didn't want to play the song. But I believe that was after the OU game.

[UncleSonny 6,669]

6 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I'm trying to figure out the issue at this point. This is not about race to me, and I can't understand why people are making it about race. Every team has expectations of its players. Tom Herman crashed the plane into the mountain because he refused to have standards in spite of being told to do so.

What is there to protest? No one is making anyone sing anything (and they never were). The song is not racist (and it never was). Why are some of you crying so much?

From Hartzell's introductory letter:

Page 20:

[TwiceHorn 31,702]

2 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

From Hartzell's introductory letter:

Page 20:

The use of "overtly" there is unfortunate.  Because it implies that it is or could be "covertly" racist, which I think is false.

The rest of the paragraph is hard to disagree with.

[Js1 85,885]

Why is this still going on? 

UT says no racist intent in creation Of song 

UT says players and students can make their own choice to participate or not (perfect compromise) 

UT says racist emails from donors aren’t cool and don’t represent UT

End of thread. But hold on, let’s tell players to fuck off and transfer first! 

[David Dennison 19,135]

7 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

From Hartzell's introductory letter:

Page 20:

The University clearly recognizes that it is acceptable for individual team members to choose not to participate in the singing of the Eyes of Texas. 

Hopefully, coaches understand this as well.

 

[bad_teammate 13,328]

24 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Every team has expectations of its players.

Yes, and what is UT's expectations of its players regarding The Eyes?

Please answer the question.

[TriStone 1,724]

12 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Why is this still going on?

Good question!

 

13 minutes ago, Js1 said:

But hold on, let’s tell players to fuck off and transfer first! 

Oh ... that's why.

[BurntOrange&White 40,546]

42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Now it says "reportedly heard."  I wonder if that's new.

Handbook of Texas  points out Lee worship, but doesn't attrribute EOT to Lee.  Apparently taken from AAS obituary from 1905.

Are you trying to argue that the University is estopped from presenting a different set of facts?  

Even if the phrase was adapted from a Lee speech made to the Knights of the White Camellia wearing a hood in front of a burning cross, the serendipitous path by which it came to be incorporated into the school song mostly absolves it of the racist connection.

The words themselves have no literal racist meaning and no non-literal racist connotation. It's a real stretch to say they somehow acquire such a meaning or connotation by reason of having been uttered by a racist in a literally different form.

I will grant that other innocuous phrases can acquire horrific meaning by reason of having been used in a certain context by a certain speaker.  For example, "the final solution."  But the context has to be less ambiguous and equivocal than this one.

He’s stating as fact the university of Texas “promoted” it. 

[David Dennison 19,135]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

He’s stating as fact the university of Texas “promoted” it. 

It's published in a bio on the UT System website. Here's what it says:

President Prather also provided the University with the words "The Eyes of Texas are upon you," which later became the title of the institution's official song. As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students, "Young men, the eyes of the South are upon you." President Prather changed the words slightly and used them as opening and parting comments he made to students. 

What would you call it? 

[immamac 43,618]

Why is this thread still a thing?

The decision is final and the effects will be the effects. What are you idiots babbling on about?

I'm close to just locking this thread up because all that is happening now is a bunch of thinly veiled racism and outrage over something that is decided and isn't even fucking controversial. ESPN literally was like well fuck it the OLN report fizzled out because the investigation proved that it was a nothingburger that a bunch of SJW turned into a big thing.

Don't sing the fucking song if you don't want, sing the song half the time if you want, sing the song all the time. Fucking IDGAF if you hum the god damned song during every play or as you are scoring touchdowns. All of it is moot.

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.

FIN

[BurntOrange&White 40,546]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's published in a bio on the UT System website. Here's what it says:

President Prather also provided the University with the words "The Eyes of Texas are upon you," which later became the title of the institution's official song. As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students, "Young men, the eyes of the South are upon you." President Prather changed the words slightly and used them as opening and parting comments he made to students. 

What would you call it? 

I’d not use the word promoted. Having on a website does not equal promotion. 

[David Dennison 19,135]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’d not use the word promoted. Having on a website does not equal promotion. 

What would you call it?

Advancing a narrative?

Edited March 10, 2021 by David Dennison

[BurntOrange&White 40,546]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What would you call it?

Advancing a narrative?

“COME ONE COME ALL TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS WHERE ROBERT E LEE SAID THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPON YOU AND WE MADE IT OUR SCHOOL SONG!!!! LETS CELEBRATE LEES CONTRIBUTION TO THE SONG!”

 

- david Dennison fragile mind when he reads the excerpt from that website 

Edited March 10, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[TriStone 1,724]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What would you call it?

I'd call it a page on a website.  Saying it was being "promoted" would suggest there was some kind of push by the university to drive traffic to that specific page.

[TwiceHorn 31,702]

27 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’d not use the word promoted. Having on a website does not equal promotion. 

Is the word important?  Is there a greater purpose to this argument?

The University repeated, subscribed to, adopted, endorsed, promoted an apparently inaccurate historical story regarding a fairly obscure subject and person.

That could form a basis for anyone researching the EOT or Prather to conclude that EOT is  loosely connected to a racist and to the racist CSA.  That's a fair point.

Or I suppose it could be argued that the fact of past "promotion" makes the "revisionist" history likely to be false, or at least less credible.

I think the simplest explanation is that the University, or certain of it's "arms" (Ex-Students, Regents Office) relied on an unreliable history.  Assuming that it's accurate that Taylor wrote his memoir/history in 1938, he was 80 years old at the time.  He only lived three more years.

Curious fact.  If you google/ddg "eyes of the south" and Robert E. Lee, you get nothing that isn't related to the Eyes of Texas (or a metal song by Down, or something that doesn't reference eyes of the south).  That's not conclusive by any means, but given the amount of crap on the internet, it is a little curious and maybe indicates that it wasn't Lee's favorite saying.

Edited March 10, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Restinmybones 111]

35 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why is this thread still a thing?

The decision is final and the effects will be the effects. What are you idiots babbling on about?

I'm close to just locking this thread up because all that is happening now is a bunch of thinly veiled racism and outrage over something that is decided and isn't even fucking controversial. ESPN literally was like well fuck it the OLN report fizzled out because the investigation proved that it was a nothingburger that a bunch of SJW turned into a big thing.

Don't sing the fucking song if you don't want, sing the song half the time if you want, sing the song all the time. Fucking IDGAF if you hum the god damned song during every play or as you are scoring touchdowns. All of it is moot.

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.

FIN

The song remains the same.

[bad_teammate 13,328]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Is there a greater purpose to this argument?

Easy rep points and feelings of self-worth are gained from yelling at DD in this thread, so if it's gotta be a semantic quibble then I guess that's what it's gotta be for these guys.

[gyroprotagonist 2,595]

57 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why is this thread still a thing?

The decision is final and the effects will be the effects. What are you idiots babbling on about?

I'm close to just locking this thread up because all that is happening now is a bunch of thinly veiled racism and outrage over something that is decided and isn't even fucking controversial. ESPN literally was like well fuck it the OLN report fizzled out because the investigation proved that it was a nothingburger that a bunch of SJW turned into a big thing.

Don't sing the fucking song if you don't want, sing the song half the time if you want, sing the song all the time. Fucking IDGAF if you hum the god damned song during every play or as you are scoring touchdowns. All of it is moot.

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.

FIN

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.
4. Stop fucking moving your hand/hookem sign the entire song.  it only happens at the end.

Edited March 10, 2021 by gyroprotagonist

[David Dennison 19,135]

40 minutes ago, TriStone said:

I'd call it a page on a website.  Saying it was being "promoted" would suggest there was some kind of push by the university to drive traffic to that specific page.

Call it whatever you want, but the University of Texas was (and still is) publishing information that it now disavows.

[David Dennison 19,135]

5 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.
4. Stop fucking moving your hand/hookem sign the entire song.  it only happens at the end.

Number 4 is the most important.

[Tex Pete 21,049]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

They should take a knee. Ooooh, or better yet, raise a fist.

Fun!

But for what reason?

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Call it whatever you want, but the University of Texas was (and still is) publishing information that it now disavows.

Somebody who gives more of a shit than I do ought to bring it to the attention of the web editors. I bet they'd have it amended or eliminated by the end of the week. 

[David Dennison 19,135]

15 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

But for what reason?

America.

[RollLeft 5,053]

8 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Why can’t we just have a less offensive and more inclusive school song, like “Nobody Move” by Easy E?

Might I suggest anything by Too Short.

[Cajun 11,766]

Quote

Number 4 is the most important.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Cajun

[77horn 216]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Why is this thread still a thing?

It seems David Dennison got his degree Summa Cum Laude from the Derka school of beating a dead horse.

[David Dennison 19,135]

7 minutes ago, 77horn said:

It seems David Dennison got his degree Summa Cum Laude from the Derka school of beating a dead horse.

And that's fair.

[TexasBeta 1,271]

1. They will play the eyes at the end of every sporting event, just like they have for a long fucking time.
2. No one will be required to sing it or participate if they feel like it offends them.
3. Donors need to stop fucking with players that don't want to participate.
4. Stop fucking moving your hand/hookem sign the entire song.  it only happens at the end.

May I be so bold as to add

5. Win some fucking football games. Winning cures all and contrary to previous held opinions, it’s not hard.

[TreatyOak 16,828]

[Enchubben 5,564]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I think what's more accurate is that you don't want to answer the question and deal with the reality that faces us as Longhorn fans.

Next year, the players have been told they have a choice whether or not to participate.

What is your reaction going to be if a player chooses not to? Are you going to create drama and problems for our university or are you going to keep your mouth shut and mind your business? If that's a false choice, please explain the option being left out.

We need to allow our student athletes the freedom to speak their mind or protest what they don't understand or agree with.

Also - you as an alum need to shut your mouth about what you don't agree with or understand.

Quite the take.

[Restinmybones 111]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Why can’t we just have a less offensive and more inclusive school song, like “Nobody Move” by Easy E?

I don't know that one but I like Chris Rea's Texas or, if it needs to be something written by a native, I'm sure there's some Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, ZZ Top, Steve Miller, or Janis Joplin that might do. I doubt it would be possible to do justice to Stevie Ray Vaughn, T-Bone Walker, or Lightning Hopkins. 

[TwiceHorn 31,702]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Call it whatever you want, but the University of Texas was (and still is) publishing information that it now disavows.

Come out and say it.  You think the new "narrative" is bullshit.

You used to not be like this.