Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Interested to see how telling the players that a bunch of wealthy donors are pissed and they need to do what they're told works out.

Probably just need to let people do what they want.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Loch Ness Monster

[Thermos H. Christ 478]

Wasn't the compromise reached in the offseason that they would continue to play the song after games, and players were free to participate or not? But now halfway through a meaningless shitshow of a season CDC and Herman go to the team and explain the situation."Hey so it turns out a bunch of angry boomer donors are blowing up the phones calling for us to lose our insanely lucrative jobs, and we're actually gonna need you guys to go ahead and debase yourselves before them every time you get done battling in the arena for their amusement, which we hope will appease them. Anyway good luck not getting covid or CTE."

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yeah seems some olds are pissed the players have the freedom to do what they want. 

[texashorne 1185]

10 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Interested to see how telling the players that a bunch of wealthy donors are pissed and they need to do what their told works out.

I'm interested to see what the donors do with their wealth when the player's don't. 

[BrazilHorn 6792]

44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That conveniently ignores the fact that the song was performed at racist minstrel shows. 

 

The "N" word was used to denigrate slaves and freed black men for generations, yet blacks across America have taken that word as their own as a sign of their power over the word.

I think what "The Eyes" has been turned into is so far from its racist past that I am unsure that simply saying "at one point this had a racist background" holds water given what it has been transformed to today (a means of students/alum/players celebrating their common bond of UT).

I am not saying play the EOT as frankly I don't truly give a shit, but to me the "it has roots in racism" argument is a specious one as its meaning has been completely transformed. I think own its racist past while acknowledging that it has been changed to a message of unity and togetherness. The song is not remotely being used today in a racist manner, but rather encourages fans/alum of all creeds/genders/orientation/races to stop and sing together their love for UT.

To be fair I am not an 18-22 black man and I do believe it is perception not intent that matters. I just think that failing to account for how one thing can be transformed in the context of another is not rational.  However if the players perceive it to be a symbol of racism TODAY then that is the discussion to have. How can the fans and players at the end of a game give appreciation for one another? That is how the EOT is used today at games, find a suitable replacement for that and I think this issue is resolved.

(Shit play the Walter Cronkite - Get your bachelors, your masters or your Phd - but most of all get your Horns up as an alternative)

[David Dennison 19441]

8 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Yeah seems some olds are pissed the players have the freedom to do what they want. 

Along those lines . . .

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

7 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I'm interested to see what the donors do with their wealth when the player's don't. 

Extra trust fund $ for their kids?

 

[52-80 19379]

5000 posts of everyone getting trolled by just 2 failed abortions in a derka thread.

 

this is peak 2020

[Thermos H. Christ 478]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

To be fair I am not an 18-22 black man and I do believe it is perception not intent that matters.

How do you think those 18-22 year old black men will perceive this? Young men who made it clear this was an issue before the season began, who were told they had been heard and would not have to participate in a minstrel song, only to then have CDC and Herman come to them halfway through the season and tell them the compromise will not be honored because CDC and Herman are taking heat for it. Heat they are not willing to take for the sake of their players. 

[bad_teammate 13479]

27 minutes ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

Wasn't the compromise reached in the offseason that they would continue to play the song after games, and players were free to participate or not?

Yes, which some of us realized was going to lead us exactly here.

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/15156-texas-athletes-petitioning-university-to-replace-the-eyes-of-texas-and-to-no-longer-require-athletes-to-sing-it/&do=findComment&comment=2371324

Edited October 15, 2020 by bad_teammate

[BrazilHorn 6792]

1 minute ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

How do you think those 18-22 year old black men will perceive this? Young men who made it clear this was an issue before the season began, who were told they had been heard and would not have to participate in a minstrel song, only to then have CDC and Herman come to them halfway through the season and tell them the compromise will not be honored because CDC and Herman are taking heat for it. Heat they are not willing to take for the sake of their players. 

That is the issue. I am reacting to DD logic thread about how it has to still be racist as in past is started racist.

I do think they will react poorly and that CDC and TH did a poor job of setting expectations of players and fans alike.

I think they need to find a different way to have post game "Thanks" between fans and players.

 

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, BrazilHorn said:

That is the issue. I am reacting to DD logic thread about how it has to still be racist as in past is started racist.

I do think they will react poorly and that CDC and TH did a poor job of setting expectations of players and fans alike.

I think they need to find a different way to have post game "Thanks" between fans and players.

 

I have never said the song is racist.

The minstrel shows where it was performed were 100% racist.

That's the problem. That's what isn't going away.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Would def be nice if everyone got along but now that we're here the solution is probably not telling others they need to fall in line or else. Just gonna make the story bigger and longer and drawn out.

[CurlyDumps 4618]

37 minutes ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

Wasn't the compromise reached in the offseason that they would continue to play the song after games, and players were free to participate or not? But now halfway through a meaningless shitshow of a season CDC and Herman go to the team and explain the situation."Hey so it turns out a bunch of angry boomer donors are blowing up the phones calling for us to lose our insanely lucrative jobs, and we're actually gonna need you guys to go ahead and debase yourselves before them every time you get done battling in the arena for their amusement, which we hope will appease them. Anyway good luck not getting covid or CTE."

No. According to latest reporting, which included sourced comments from current UT head coaches, during the offseason CDC made it clear that student athletes were to stay out on the field/court/whatever for The Eyes.

The fact that current coaches were willing to comment suggests to me that they're ticked off at Herman for making this a now national issue, and want people to know this bungling is 100% on him.

Herman likely didn't take the issue seriously because he thought he'd be 4-0 right now, and/or because he wanted to curry favor with his players.

Edited October 15, 2020 by CurlyDumps

[utee94 16066]

8 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I think they need to find a different way to have post game "Thanks" between fans and players.

 

This is ok in theory, but what would you suggest to replace something that's grown up over almost a century of shared experience?  Singing The Eyes together at the end of a game, win or lose, with  or without the band present, has grown up organically over that long span.  Getting rid of The Eyes pretty much just eliminates this moment altogether, because anything new and forced can't help but feel hollow by comparison.  Traditions can't be contrived.  

[UncleSonny 6790]

34 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

The "N" word was used to denigrate slaves and freed black men for generations, yet blacks across America have taken that word as their own as a sign of their power over the word.

Blacks across America weren't told they must use the word in their communities as a sign of their power over it. They took it. Too many people in our fanbase have decided that no matter what the EOT racist origins are, black players must accept that the song is now about bringing us together in a show of mutual appreciation. And if they don't they must simply be spoiled or unreasonable. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by UncleSonny

[Tex Pete 21394]

26 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Along those lines . . .

 

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. No one is saying the players have to sing at this point. People are saying the players should stay on the field to acknowledge the fans and (especially) not leave a player out there alone. That the racism angle is completely forced is no small part of the issue, however.

[DanRydell 799]

This is ok in theory, but what would you suggest to replace something that's grown up over almost a century of shared experience?  Singing The Eyes together at the end of a game, win or lose, with  or without the band present, has grown up organically over that long span.  Getting rid of The Eyes pretty much just eliminates this moment altogether, because anything new and forced can't help but feel hollow by comparison.  Traditions can't be contrived.  

But it apparently was contrived since it turns out that athletes sticking around to sing with the fans has been compulsory.

[utee94 16066]

1 minute ago, DanRydell said:

But it apparently was contrived since it turns out that athletes sticking around to sing with the fans has been compulsory.

Ricky and Earl certainly didn't see it that way. 

[BrazilHorn 6792]

1 minute ago, UncleSonny said:

Blacks across America weren't told they must use the word in their communities as a sign of their power over it. They took it. Too many people in our fanbase have decided that no matter what the EOT racist origins are, black players must accept that the song is now about bringing us together in a show of mutual appreciation. And if they don't they must simply be spoiled or unreasonable. 

Like I said, an alternative to me is to offer a different end game deal. This is something that is academic to me vs personal as I am not a Black American. I am happy for these players not to sing shit, I am happy for them to just head right to the locker room.  I also think just coming out and letting fans/players fucking wave and acknowledge one another works.

I just think that we should be able to rationally acknowledge that what the EOT is today is dramatically and fundamentally different than its place of origin. If people want to use its past to say it delivers nothing of value today then that is fine. I just think it is missing what the EOT has been transformed into.

It is a tough discussion also given how shitty the play has been at an overall level for 10 years and it can be hard to separate that issue from this one.

[David Dennison 19441]

4 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. No one is saying the players have to sing at this point. People are saying the players should stay on the field to acknowledge the fans and (especially) not leave a player out there alone. That the racism angle is completely forced is no small part of the issue, however.

They are being told they have to stand and show respect for a song they find offensive.

That has extremely unfortunate undertones.

[Thermos H. Christ 478]

2 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

No. According to latest reporting, which included sourced comments from current UT head coaches, CDC made it clear that student athletes were to stay out on the field/court/whatever for The Eyes.

The fact that current coaches were willing to comment suggests to me that they're ticked off at Herman, and want people to know this bungling is 100% on him.

Herman likely didn't take the issue seriously because he thought he'd be 4-0 right now, and/or because he wanted to curry favor with his players.

If true, that makes me wonder if CDC participated because Herman needed him to come be the bad guy. "See, I'm on your side, but it's out of my hands. If the boss says this is what we have to do, it's what we have to do."

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

2 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Again just because someone says it's offensive doesn't make it so. If we want a chaotic system where kids can say i don't like this so change it then they will just start saying it to get their way,

"I find taking a test offensive" ok you don't have too,.

They are already trying that. See UCLA professor suspended for not exempting students who were upset by George Floyd. His reason?  He was following school policy. The school found this “troubling”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ucla-professor-suspended-under-police-protection-after-threats

[UncleSonny 6790]

10 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Like I said, an alternative to me is to offer a different end game deal. This is something that is academic to me vs personal as I am not a Black American. I am happy for these players not to sing shit, I am happy for them to just head right to the locker room.  I also think just coming out and letting fans/players fucking wave and acknowledge one another works.

I just think that we should be able to rationally acknowledge that what the EOT is today is dramatically and fundamentally different than its place of origin. If people want to use its past to say it delivers nothing of value today then that is fine. I just think it is missing what the EOT has been transformed into.

It is a tough discussion also given how shitty the play has been at an overall level for 10 years and it can be hard to separate that issue from this one.

Yeah I wasn't trying to bunch you into the group that thinks players should get on board or STFU and I agree that we should be able to have a rationally conversation about the EOT origins and what it means now. With better leadership that very well could have happened and we could have moved past this. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by UncleSonny

[bad_teammate 13479]

6 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Ricky and Earl certainly didn't see it that way. 

And what about the former players who do?

#TokenismIsBad

[The Earl of Texas 3211]

 

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

7 minutes ago, The Earl of Texas said:

 

Yup. This is a failure by Tom Herman, plain and simple. Multiple coaches are on record saying the plan and expectations were set. Only one coach failed to adhere to those expectations by either ignorance or insubordination or a combination of the two. 
 

I like the assertion that the few black players on the team upset by the eyes speak for every black player on the team, other current black athletes at Texas, former black athletes, black alumni, and etc. 

 

Everything I’ve read or spoke with former black athletes from Ricky to Earl to Quran Cosby seem to not care about the eyes or it’s past.

 

 

But no, a half dozen to a bakers dozen football players say it’s racist so they speak for everyone of the black community. It’s essentially fox pimping out Candace Owens as an authority on all black people. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by BurntOrange&White

[perfectchaos007 6766]

How many players are going to hit the portal over this?

[bad_teammate 13479]

5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

But no, a half dozen to a bakers dozen football players say it’s racist so they speak for everyone of the black community.

Who argued this? Name names.

It's hard to work through difficult issues when people like you are purposefully dishonest about the terms of the conversation.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yeah, when did the current players say they speak for all black people?

5 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

How many players are going to hit the portal over this?

And impact on future recruits. Seems this story is becoming bigger by the day. 

[Rockethorn1978 6203]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who argued this? Name names.

It's hard to work through difficult issues when people like you are purposefully dishonest about the terms of the conversation.

LOL

[David Dennison 19441]

15 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Yup. This is a failure by Tom Herman, plain and simple. Multiple coaches are on record saying the plan and expectations were set. Only one coach failed to adhere to those expectations by either ignorance or insubordination or a combination of the two. 
I like the assertion that the few black players on the team upset by the eyes speak for every black player on the team, other current black athletes at Texas, former black athletes, black alumni, and etc. 

Everything I’ve read or spoke with former black athletes from Ricky to Earl to Quran Cosby seem to not care about the eyes or it’s past.

But no, a half dozen to a bakers dozen football players say it’s racist so they speak for everyone of the black community. It’s essentially fox pimping out Candace Owens as an authority on all black people. 

Rod Babers has said that about a third of the players he's talked to want nothing to do with the Eyes of Texas anymore.

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Rod Babers has said that about a third of the players he's talked to want nothing to do with the Eyes of Texas anymore.

Did Rob Babers talk to every black player on the team? That saying doesn’t mean shit. If he’s talked to 12 players about it only 4 say they don’t want anything to do with it. 
 

24 player only 8 and so on. 
 

It’s pretty meaningless to quote something like that when you don’t know if every black player on the team was surveyed by Rod Babers

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Did Rob Babers talk to every black player on the team? That saying doesn’t mean shit. If he’s talked to 12 players about it only 4 say they don’t want anything to do with it. 
 

24 player only 8 and so on. 
 

It’s pretty meaningless to quote something like that when you don’t know if every black player on the team was surveyed by Rod Babers

I didn't quote anything. I just gave you my best recollection.

Edited October 15, 2020 by David Dennison

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I didn't quote anything. I just gave you my best recollection.

Oh you don’t have names then you’re being purposely dishonest/bad teammate

 

there roughly 70 black players on the team of only a 1/3 according to rod babers want nothing to with the eyes that is only 23 players. Leaving almost 47 players who don’t care, double the number of players who do. 
 

^ assuming rod babers talked to every black player 

Edited October 15, 2020 by BurntOrange&White

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh you don’t have names then you’re being purposely dishonest/bad teammate

 

there roughly 70 black players on the team of only a 1/3 according to rod babers want nothing to with the eyes that is only 23 players. Leaving almost 47 players who don’t care, double the number of players who do. 
 

^ assuming rod babers talked to every black player 

Judging by what happened on Saturday, I think Rod might have undercounted bigly.

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Judging by what happened on Saturday, I think Rod might have undercounted bigly.

Changing the story. Typical of you. Get fucked 

[David Dennison 19441]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Changing the story. Typical of you. Get fucked 

You are by far my favorite toy on this site.

[bad_teammate 13479]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You are by far my favorite toy on this site.

ROD BABERS DIDN'T SAY THAT AND EVEN IF HE DID HE'S WRONG AND EVEN IF HE'S NOT WRONG IT DOESN'T MATTER!

[TexasGrunt 72]

Where does it stop?  Are we going to remove all championships before 1970 because the teams were all white?  Is that next?  Stop celebrating that because a few may have issue with it?

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You are by far my favorite toy on this site.

Why because you have daddy issues and love getting abused?

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

5 minutes ago, TexasGrunt said:

Where does it stop?  Are we going to remove all championships before 1970 because the teams were all white?  Is that next?  Stop celebrating that because a few may have issue with it?

No?

People that want to sing the EOT can still do so

[UncleSonny 6790]

Slippery slope argument!

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Why because you have daddy issues and love getting abused?

No, because I enjoy watching you get all wound up and run around in circles.

[elguapo 4620]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Why because you have daddy issues and love getting abused?

It’s ok buddy you are still your mommy’s special snowflake 

[bad_teammate 13479]

10 minutes ago, TexasGrunt said:

Where does it stop?  Are we going to remove all championships before 1970 because the teams were all white?  Is that next?  Stop celebrating that because a few may have issue with it?

Maybe, who knows what the future will bring. Maybe THEY will make being white illegal and THEY will put us into rockets and shoot us into space!

Deal with what is in front of you instead of making things up in your mind to be offended about.

[bad_teammate 13479]

BOW's avatar is like when Twitter lames put their kids as their avi so people won't dunk on them as hard.

[Poe It Up 126]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Maybe, who knows what the future will bring. Maybe THEY will make being white illegal and THEY will put us into rockets and shoot us into space!

Deal with what is in front of you instead of making things up in your mind to be offended about.

Agreed. Wish they would stop making up things about The Eyes. 

[bad_teammate 13479]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

Agreed. Wish they would stop making up things about The Eyes. 

People saying stuff about how "The Eyes" mean the slaveowner's eyes are definitely making it up. They're ignorant of the history and meaning of the song. The lyrics of the song are completely banal and harmless.

The history of the song, though, that's not made up.

[UncleSonny 6790]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

Agreed. Wish they would stop making up things about The Eyes. 

Fine, I'll bite. What are "they" making up about The Eyes?