Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[bad_teammate 13,141]

39 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Provide examples of the 2005 team acting like mentally weak bitches on the field.

Again, the label on the behavior has to do with winning, not anything else. If we were winning all of these games these exact behaviors wouldn't be cast as the behavior of "mentally weak bitches". If a team got a 3rd down and one of our guys was talking crap while winning we MIGHT disapprove but we wouldn't play it up as some kind of signal of overall mental weakness.

The reason people are so angry at me for bringing up the well-known foibles of the 2005 team isn't because they don't think Longhorns should be criticized (they are clearly OK with setting our current hard-working young men on (figurative) fire), it's because that team won.

We see what we want to see. We see an image and then build a whole story around it to assuage our beliefs, biases, and feelings. (Just like people did when they saw the image of Sam alone and then wrote an entire novel of imagined backstory and intention around it.)

34 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

I can’t break down quotes, but on the first one, your goading of the Pro-Eyes side by saying the team was unified against the song is not helping take down the temperature. 

I never thought this was a case of only Sam Ehlinger supporting The Eyes and the rest opposing it, that is what others were arguing. What you're referencing here is me pointing out how absurd that idea was when people started arguing that it was Sam as the long protector of The University against an ungrateful mass of athletes. Also, pointing out how silly it was for people to be saying that Sam was showing unity and the others disunity when the basic reality was that he was alone while they were together.

"HE WAS ABANDONED OUT THERE!" was always a stupid narrative and that is the entire point.

The reality is that the vast majority of the Longhorn football team didn't really care that much about The Eyes after the game, even in Ketch's version of events. Even if a critical mass are OK with being around for it, it's pretty clear that very few of the players are in the "This song defines us as a University" camp.

You can call that goading, I guess, but it seems like a pretty fair interpretation of reality that isn't a judgment or attack on any group involved. (Unlike the wave upon wave of often-racially-charged invective lobbied against our players.)

[ChickenSandwich 9,798]

If the administration was able to deliver the truth from day one (or had the backbone), if the players had the ability to handle the truth....This would have never been an issue.

Simple

The eyes of Texas song is not racist, nor is the University's 100+ year tradition of singing it.  If we use this mickey mouse 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon as logic to prove racism, everything is racist.  We agree with everything else you proposed and will make changes immediately.  Honor all of the African Americans athletes and students who came before you and proudly sang the song in a show of unity with the fans and alums.  Be an agent of unity, not division.

The truth won't go over well, and here we are.

[David Dennison 18,679]

35 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If the administration was able to deliver the truth from day one (or had the backbone), if the players had the ability to handle the truth....This would have never been an issue.

Simple

The eyes of Texas song is not racist, nor is the University's 100+ year tradition of singing it.  If we use this mickey mouse 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon as logic to prove racism, everything is racist.  We agree with everything else you proposed and will make changes immediately.  Honor all of the African Americans athletes and students who came before you and proudly sang the song in a show of unity with the fans and alums.  Be an agent of unity, not division.

The truth won't go over well, and here we are.

This conveniently ignores the fact that the University's 100 year tradition of singing the song includes indisputably racist minstrel shows.

[BurntOrange&White 39,706]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This conveniently ignores the fact that the University's 100 year tradition of singing the song includes indisputably racist minstrel shows.

Damn they’re still doing minstrel shows 100 years later. This revelation is huge and definitely changes things. 

[UncleSonny 6,564]

44 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If the administration was able to deliver the truth from day one (or had the backbone), if the players had the ability to handle the truth....This would have never been an issue.

Simple

The eyes of Texas song is not racist, nor is the University's 100+ year tradition of singing it.  If we use this mickey mouse 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon as logic to prove racism, everything is racist.  We agree with everything else you proposed and will make changes immediately.  Honor all of the African Americans athletes and students who came before you and proudly sang the song in a show of unity with the fans and alums.  Be an agent of unity, not division.

The truth won't go over well, and here we are.

This is so pointless. Nothing you are saying is a truth, it's your opinion and you can't even get to a place in your head where you can hear a differing one without lashing out. You literally write out that the players have to accept your truth (again, clearly an opinion) or they are the ones creating division.

Yeah...I guess that makes you a great unifier in the same way a dictator is a unifier but I'm not quite convinced. You don't give a shit what anyone else thinks or feels unless they agree with you. If they don't it's obviously them that is too sensitive, intellectually dishonest, or have ulterior motives. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,798]

there was a klan member named John, we should cancel the name John.

Sorry, it's bullshit

And it is the TRUTH, because if you look through racist colored glasses, you can find racism IN ANYTHING.  You either cancel everything or you at some point say, No.

Edited October 16, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[UncleSonny 6,564]

Keep beating the shit out of that strawman or find me one example of literally anyone making an argument that dumb. 

 

[bad_teammate 13,141]

6 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

And it is the TRUTH, because if you look through racist colored glasses, you can find racism IN ANYTHING.

This is... actually insane.

I think what you mean is, "A lot more things have been deemed racist by some than I think is appropriate." or something like that. It doesn't hit as hard emotionally, but it's the foundation of a coherent train of thought.

-------------------------------------

- The song's lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer.
- The song's lyrics were inspired by Lee, who was telling young men that expectations on them were high to succeed.
- UT President Prather liked the message so much that he stole it for Texas specifically and used it himself.
- Lee's message (much less Prather's) was not delivered to slaves/former slaves, so they are not a threat of some kind.
- Prather's message was only to white men, but that is because the larger tradition in the South was to (unfairly and wrongly) exclude black people.
- The initial version of the song was debuted at a minstrel show where it was possible-to-likely that white men performed it in blackface (not absolutely certain to be the case, as minstrel shows did not always have blackface for all their acts).
- A more serious version of the song was written to honor The University instead of simply teasing the beloved President Prather as was the minstrel show version's purpose.
- For the last 100+ years, this more serious version has been a central part of UT tradition and ritual, almost all of those 100+ years without controversy.
- Generations of Longhorns, white and black and brown and yellow, have sung The Eyes with pride and find it to be a uniting and important bond.

I think all of those are fairly uncontroversial, yeah?

[David Dennison 18,679]

16 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

there was a klan member named John, we should cancel the name John.

Sorry, it's bullshit

And it is the TRUTH, because if you look through racist colored glasses, you can find racism IN ANYTHING.  You either cancel everything or you at some point say, No.

Or you can go on singing the Eyes of Texas at football games as long as you want because no one is saying you can't.

[ChickenSandwich 9,798]

50 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Keep beating the shit out of that strawman or find me one example of literally anyone making an argument that dumb. 

 

The EOT is a very clear example. It’s the exact same logic. You don’t have to like it. Strawman is the correct term in regards to EOT. 
 

At some point the pledge of allegiance and National anthem were also performed at a minstrel show. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[Gucci_Suit 2,611]

Just dropping in to tell you guys how much I love and respect you all as fans, alums, and humans. Love your differences, similarities, and opinions. Love you all.

Except Tom Herman. Fuck Tom.  

[Hagbard Celine 10,771]

3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

They must not be aware of the ignore feature.

he's talking about you, dipshit.

[Hagbard Celine 10,771]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

This conveniently ignores the fact that the University's 100 year tradition of singing the song includes indisputably racist minstrel shows.

Which we have indisputably proven are not plural, not the reason for the music, and not the reason for the lyrics.

And when confronted with that multiple times you and the rest of the 3rd-graders revert to longcat, messenger-shitting, and shell-gaming over to BLACK RIGHTS.

I'm okay with the players taking a knee.  But the transfer portal is that way -------------------------->

[David Dennison 18,679]

3 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

he's talking about you, dipshit.

Which is why they should use the ignore feature, professor.

[David Dennison 18,679]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

Which we have indisputably proven are not plural, not the reason for the music, and not the reason for the lyrics.

And when confronted with that multiple times you and the rest of the 3rd-graders revert to longcat, messenger-shitting, and shell-gaming over to BLACK RIGHTS.

I'm okay with the players taking a knee.  But the transfer portal is that way -------------------------->

Well, as long as you're OK with it.

LOL

[Hagbard Celine 10,771]

48 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This is... actually insane.

longcat bullshit

i exploded and destroyed your logic 6 days ago.  you were asked to provide contemporary sources citing UT student leader's knowledge of prather's use of lee's phrase and their transposition of same with racist intent and you ran for the hills screaming BLACK RIGHTS.  i'll go back and find the exchange if i get time this weekend.

[UncleSonny 6,564]

24 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The EOT is a very clear example. It’s the exact same logic. You don’t have to like it. Strawman is the correct term in regards to EOT. 
 

At some point the pledge of allegiance and National anthem were also performed at a minstrel show. 

If you think:

Quote

"there was a klan member named John, we should cancel the name John"

is the exact same argument as: 

Quote

"The initial version of the song was debuted at a minstrel show where it was possible-to-likely that white men performed it in blackface (not absolutely certain to be the case, as minstrel shows did not always have blackface for all their acts). As a result of the song's origins some black players on the team expressed they no longer want to be required to stand and sing it"

then I truly don't know what to say. You are either being obtuse to the point of trolling or you aren't smart enough to be having a conversation like this. Either way probably not worth engaging with. 

The most annoying part of all this I don't want EOT "cancelled" and I don't necessarily think that it should be. All I'm pushing back against are people that are saying that the players who have spoken out are being drama queens and should just shut up and get in line or hit the portal. I'm just trying to have baseline empathy for people who have life experiences that are different than mine but somehow I'm basically advocating for white genocide. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by UncleSonny

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

Did Bevo ever appear at a minstrel show?   I’m betting so.  It was the entertainment of the day.  
 

DKR coached the last all white national title team.  They will come after him.  
 

Don’t ever give in to extreme demands.  Because it just encourages more nonsense.  Most of their demands weren’t extreme and supported by 99 percent of us.  The Eyes was and we should have politely said no.  No is a complete sentence.  

[BabaYaga 15,215]

UncleSonny and BT have virtually THE EXACT same posting style and identically absurd, obtuse points.  Coincidence, I'm sure.....

[UncleSonny 6,564]

33 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

UncleSonny and BT have virtually THE EXACT same posting style and identically absurd, obtuse points.  Coincidence, I'm sure.....

I'm sorry my point that it's entirely reasonable for something to upset one person while another finds it totally benign is so incendiary to you guys.

Thanks for the negs, I hope it made you feel safer from your fears that the scary libs are going to arrest people named John or whatever totally normal shit you guys are spinning out to.  I would advise yall to be careful and not tip too far into cancel culture though, slippery slope and whatnot. 

[TriStone 1,724]

15 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

Deadly pandemic causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in less than 10 months and millions of severely ill/hospitalized and this is the shit you yankee idiots focus on...

In the immortal words of Señor Chang, shut your pompous gaping vortex of overlapping fangs, ya limey git.

Edited October 16, 2020 by TriStone

[Newy25 7,638]

4 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Again, the label on the behavior has to do with winning, not anything else. If we were winning all of these games these exact behaviors wouldn't be cast as the behavior of "mentally weak bitches". If a team got a 3rd down and one of our guys was talking crap while winning we MIGHT disapprove but we wouldn't play it up as some kind of signal of overall mental weakness.

The reason people are so angry at me for bringing up the well-known foibles of the 2005 team isn't because they don't think Longhorns should be criticized (they are clearly OK with setting our current hard-working young men on (figurative) fire), it's because that team won.

We see what we want to see. We see an image and then build a whole story around it to assuage our beliefs, biases, and feelings. (Just like people did when they saw the image of Sam alone and then wrote an entire novel of imagined backstory and intention around it.)

I never thought this was a case of only Sam Ehlinger supporting The Eyes and the rest opposing it, that is what others were arguing. What you're referencing here is me pointing out how absurd that idea was when people started arguing that it was Sam as the long protector of The University against an ungrateful mass of athletes. Also, pointing out how silly it was for people to be saying that Sam was showing unity and the others disunity when the basic reality was that he was alone while they were together.

"HE WAS ABANDONED OUT THERE!" was always a stupid narrative and that is the entire point.

The reality is that the vast majority of the Longhorn football team didn't really care that much about The Eyes after the game, even in Ketch's version of events. Even if a critical mass are OK with being around for it, it's pretty clear that very few of the players are in the "This song defines us as a University" camp.

You can call that goading, I guess, but it seems like a pretty fair interpretation of reality that isn't a judgment or attack on any group involved. (Unlike the wave upon wave of often-racially-charged invective lobbied against our players.)

In other words, you are full of shit. You made claims, patently absurd claims and I called you out for making shit up that you cannot back up with evidence. You have nothing factual. Nothing. Only bull shit emotional arguments without anything factual to back it up. 

Outside of the safe space of the cloak room room where that kind of deficit thinking, intellectual dishonesty is not only allowed but celebrated you are going to find that making shit up is going to get you called out. 

[MirrOlure 14,638]

It really is fun to watch these CR pussywhimps come outside their echo chamber and then get sandy vaginas whenever someone dates call out their bullshit

[immamac 42,552]

So what if someone put your shit on blast on twitter like they did on OB? 

Guess I can kiss a press pass goodbye. 

[Hank Scorpio 17,723]

The football board is fucking wild. 

[UncleSonny 6,564]

1 hour ago, MirrOlure said:

It really is fun to watch these CR pussywhimps come outside their echo chamber and then get sandy vaginas whenever someone dates call out their bullshit

Goddamn, I mean, when you are right, you're right. A quick smattering of the rhetorical smackdowns laid down today: 

- Players who tweet about social issues during the season are unable to properly study film and prepare for games. Proven unequivocally by listing two (2!!) players who tweeted about social issues BEFORE the season but not during. Those two players' teams are undefeated on the year *mic drop* (Presumably non-socially conscious tweets and sliding into various thot DMs leaves plenty of time for film study).

- "Cancelling" a random person whose name is John because a KKK member was also named John is the exact same thing as the players having reservations about singing a song that originated in a minstrel show. THE EXACT SAME.

- You can find racial issues in many things if you are looking for them, ipso facto, regarding this specific EOT issues it is a scientific FACT that it cannot be racist. 

- Players are being drama queens about the issue (citation missing)

Apologies my head is spinning here, I truly underestimated the level of discourse that takes place on these threads. I certainly earned those negs from those posters who declined to actually engage with anything I said. Time for me to limp back to my safe space nurse my wounds. 

[Ignatius 4,002]

Shouldn’t this thread go to Daily Texan at this point? This has fuck all to do with football, especially given the huge percentage of people really into this thread who routinely post “I watch the game from the comfort of my couch, fuck going to games”...

[C-Man 27,078]

Being @David Dennison and @bad_teammate must be exhausting.

[Cajun 11,675]

[ImissWallyPryor 9,045]

If I use the ignore feature on a certain unnamed teammate, will this thread shrink to less than 10 pages?

Edited October 17, 2020 by ImissWallyPryor

[AnTiM 1,659]

Trying to remember who said something like "Never argue with idiots.  They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".  Looks like we may have some on both sides of this subject.

[927 E. 41st 1,124]

9 hours ago, C-Man said:

Being @David Dennison and @bad_teammate must be exhausting.

What could be less exhausting than being a keyboard warrior! Mom brings your juice box to the basement and you just keep on typing the same stuff over, and over as if that will change the world to your view. Get up and do it again,

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,364]

Hey guys, how’s the season going? 

[bad_teammate 13,141]

17 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i exploded and destroyed your logic 6 days ago.  you were asked to provide contemporary sources citing UT student leader's knowledge of prather's use of lee's phrase and their transposition of same with racist intent and you ran for the hills screaming BLACK RIGHTS.  i'll go back and find the exchange if i get time this weekend.

Why would I try to prove something that isn't true and I don't believe? I've never argued that the song is racist in its content or intent. Never once. (Here is the beginning of my participation in the thread to help you in your search. Good luck finding things that don't exist)

Interesting interjection of "BLACK RIGHTS", though, it's almost like you're using the football board to fight political battles.

14 hours ago, Newy25 said:

In other words, you are full of shit. You made claims, patently absurd claims and I called you out for making shit up that you cannot back up with evidence.

So basically we've got a game of chicken here where you're going to pretend the 2005 NC team was squeaky clean and entirely focused on the game and then count on me to not want to air dirty laundry about the program? Cool, fine, you win. It was a good bet on your part.

 

 

 

[David Dennison 18,679]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hey guys, how’s the season going? 

Greetings, comrade.

[MirrOlure 14,638]

Pinhead dipshits like DD, BT and other Darlings of the Echo Chamber are incapable of framing this discussion in the context of Football.

Football, like any other team sport, is based on players doing whatever in the fuck they are told to do. Whether they think it’s right, wrong, unfair, whatever.....don’t make a shit.

So the fact (apparently) that they were told that while nobody is forcing them to “sing the EOT”, that there is a post-game, expectation....to which they apparently (at least to me and others in the stands) said “nah, fuck that shit, nobody’s telling me what to do.”

And the absence of any consequences for not doing what they’re told is the actual problem. Who’s to say that doesn’t permeate all the way down to other instructions like: quit being a human torpedo and form-tackle; WR run your complete route on every play; PR don’t try to catch it backpedaling inside the 10; punter don’t run toward a defender and kick the ball into his nuts; don’t quit the team in the middle of a game; oh....and don’t shit on the people who spend $1,000’s and entire weekends of their lives traveling to see you play.

The whole “aw but the overblown myth about the song’s history doesn’t sit well with some of them” thing just doesn’t translate to football/sports. Too fucking bad. Plug your ears close your eyes or whatever. But do as you’re fucking told or Monday you’ll run until you vomit and will watch next Saturday from the sideline.

Football ain’t politics....thank God. Because winners in football aren’t anointed. The winners are the ones who’s coaches know what to tell the players to do, the players do it, and they beat the teams with coaches and players that don’t.

[Bigbend1812 12,896]

[TriStone 1,724]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hey guys, how’s the season going? 

Ever see Groundhog Day?

[Sawbonz 27,446]

12 hours ago, Ignatius said:

Shouldn’t this thread go to Daily Texan at this point?

Douchebag central imo 

[Lidig8r 1,860]

11 hours ago, Cajun said:

Oh great! We're nihilists now?

[Cajun 11,675]

I don't know.

Do you fix the cable?

[UncleSonny 6,564]

Say what you will about the tenets of cancel culture, at least it’s an ethos. 

[XYZ 2,154]

3 hours ago, AnTiM said:

Trying to remember who said something like "Never argue with idiots.  They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".  Looks like we may have some on both sides of this subject.

Twain.

[XYZ 2,154]

3 hours ago, 927 E. 41st said:

What could be less exhausting than being a keyboard warrior! Mom brings your juice box to the basement and you just keep on typing the same stuff over, and over as if that will change the world to your view. Get up and do it again,

bad_teammate is a rich old white guy.

[rage-a-holic 4,307]

12 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

If I use the ignore feature on a certain unnamed teammate, will this thread shrink to less than 10 pages?

No, because there's a bunch of fuckheads on Surly who insist on quoting every stupid BS post from BT/DD/Hugo, so you see all their shit even if you have them on ignore.

[927 E. 41st 1,124]

59 minutes ago, XYZ said:

bad_teammate is a rich old white guy.

So he has a maid bring his juice box to the basement?

[bad_teammate 13,141]

3 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

Pinhead dipshits like DD, BT and other Darlings of the Echo Chamber are incapable of framing this discussion in the context of Football.

Football, like any other team sport, is based on players doing whatever in the fuck they are told to do. Whether they think it’s right, wrong, unfair, whatever.....don’t make a shit.

When it comes to play on the field, mostly true.

When it comes to before/after the game and off-the-field? Not really.

Quote

So the fact (apparently) that they were told that while nobody is forcing them to “sing the EOT”, that there is a post-game, expectation....to which they apparently (at least to me and others in the stands) said “nah, fuck that shit, nobody’s telling me what to do.”

So glad to know that all the winningest teams in sports history were a bunch of good boys who always did what they were told.

You're not talking football here, you're talking about larger social values and trying to shove them into football. Charlie Strong, Mr. "Sit in the front row of your classes and respect women!", had a dogshit record.

If the team was winning we'd have virtually no controversy about this. And we've got dogshit coaching preventing that.

Meanwhile...

Quote

The whole “aw but the overblown myth about the song’s history doesn’t sit well with some of them” thing just doesn’t translate to football/sports. Too fucking bad. Plug your ears close your eyes or whatever. But do as you’re fucking told or Monday you’ll run until you vomit and will watch next Saturday from the sideline.

lol this isn't the fucking Junction Boys

[BabaYaga 15,215]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:31 PM, UncleSonny said:

Goddamn, I mean, when you are right, you're right. A quick smattering of the rhetorical smackdowns laid down today: 

- Players who tweet about social issues during the season are unable to properly study film and prepare for games. Proven unequivocally by listing two (2!!) players who tweeted about social issues BEFORE the season but not during. Those two players' teams are undefeated on the year *mic drop* (Presumably non-socially conscious tweets and sliding into various thot DMs leaves plenty of time for film study).

- "Cancelling" a random person whose name is John because a KKK member was also named John is the exact same thing as the players having reservations about singing a song that originated in a minstrel show. THE EXACT SAME.

- You can find racial issues in many things if you are looking for them, ipso facto, regarding this specific EOT issues it is a scientific FACT that it cannot be racist. 

- Players are being drama queens about the issue (citation missing)

Apologies my head is spinning here, I truly underestimated the level of discourse that takes place on these threads. I certainly earned those negs from those posters who declined to actually engage with anything I said. Time for me to limp back to my safe space nurse my wounds. 

Nice straw man sparky....

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by BabaYaga

[El Squared 1,793]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:59 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

The EOT is a very clear example. It’s the exact same logic. You don’t have to like it. Strawman is the correct term in regards to EOT. 
 

At some point the pledge of allegiance and National anthem were also performed at a minstrel show. 

That's next on their list....

[El Squared 1,793]

23 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

Say what you will about the tenets of cancel culture, at least it’s an ethos. 

Just like totalitarian oppression and hypocrisy....yeah, hook a brother up!