Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[David Dennison 18683]

6 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok look Minstrel shows were a big form of entertainment for quite a long time. Thousands and thousands of songs were played at minstrel shows of all kinds. Patriotic songs, religious songs, popular songs at the time. Just because it was performed at a minstrel show once doesn't mean it is associated with minstrel shows. Surely it should at least have some insulting slang or racist language or something in there to really have that association. The tune we took the song from "I've been working on the railroad" DOES have that at least in its 1890s form. So that is a thing. But even so people don't associate it with that. It is a children's song.

It is the school song of UT Austin. That is why we were "requiring African Americans to stand at attention" (I mean sort of, it is a school song, you stand and put your horns up and sing) because it was the school song. That is what is it associated with. That is what we have recordings and pictures and memories of for thousands and thousands of performances. We have no pictures or film or even minstrel show type lyrics or anything to link it to a minstrel show besides an account of one incident. 

Now it could be this discovery of this incident from the distant past is so upsetting we can no longer continue this tradition. That would be a shame, but it is what it is.

But for you to spin this like we have been forcing this horror on our African American friends for decades out of a racist love of humiliating them with minstrel show associations is just a little bit bullshit. And you know it. That was certainly not what was going on. And certainly now that this issue has been brought to our attention we are not going to require anything of the sort.

Once we review the full history of the song and we get the context and sizeable amounts of our students and alumni decide that the song needs to go then I will abide by it. I am not interested in dividing us because of the song (though I am not so naive to think that no longer singing it wouldn't in itself be divisive).

But it kind of sucks that that moment where we all sang the Eyes of Texas at my graduation is no longer a beautiful moment of unity. It sucks that one incident from over a century ago that no living person attended and for which no direct images or anything else exists beyond a text record, has far more meaning and importance than the thousands of powerful moments that hundreds of thousands did attend and remember. But that may turn out to be the case.

If indeed we are going to make this sacrifice and go through this long and divisive and difficult conflict to make this happen, I sure hope it leads us to a better and more just place. To something worth the price that must be paid.

But one thing I do know is that I have zero interest in having some song just for a certain political persuasion of Longhorns and one for another. That is not going to work for me. We need to work this out one way or the other.

It does now. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Has anyone thought of just playing a different song?

There are at least a dozen songs out there titled Fuck You.

[Born to Run 6568]

It does now. 

Thats my sentiment as well. My University belongs to the students of today, let them create thier traditions. We still have the hook em, coolest thing in sports.imo

[David Dennison 18683]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

The song isn’t reasonably associated with minstrel shows.  It has 120 years of history of nobody associating it with minstrel shows.  And now 4 or 5 months of being tangentially linked to minstrel shows in the flimsiest way possible, i.e., “Wow, did you know people played music in the South during Jim Crow?”

Klansmen have no doubt listened to Mozart.  Should we ban Mozart, too? 

Yes, it is.

[GringoSalado 1651]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Yes, it is.

Dictionary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rea·son·a·ble

/ˈrēz(ə)nəb(ə)l/

Learn to pronounce

 

adjective

 

1. 1.

   (of a person) having sound judgment; fair and sensible.

   "no reasonable person could have objected"

    

   Similar:

   sensible

    

    

   rational

    

    

   open to reason

    

   full of common sense

    

   logical

    

    

    

[Tex Pete 20190]

12 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

20 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It does now. 

Thats my sentiment as well. My University belongs to the students of today, let them create thier traditions. We still have the hook em, coolest thing in sports.imo

Fuck that. Hundreds of thousands of people have attended The University, including me. It doesn’t “belong to the students of today.” It belongs to all of us. 

[vtaenz 601]

Eh my point was already mentioned earlier. No need to rehash.

[David Dennison 18683]

4 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Fuck that. Hundreds of thousands of people have attended The University, including me. It doesn’t “belong to the students of today.” It belongs to all of us. 

It does, which is precisely why something that has become this divisive is proving so difficult to handle.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Think we'll see more and more kids pick another school other than Texas. We can play the song full blast during several mediocre seasons coming up

[Etexhorn13 3040]

10 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Think we'll see more and more kids pick another school other than Texas. We can play the song full blast during several mediocre seasons coming up

Like ole miss? aggy? Georgia? LSU? Why? Because some flowers on campus at this point decide that something as innocuous as a school song can be deemed racist 85 years later? GTFO with that nonsense. As soon as an adult will actually put their door down this bullshit will and should be done with. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Etexhorn13

[Valmy77 13125]

35 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It does, which is precisely why something that has become this divisive is proving so difficult to handle.

In this incredibly polarized time where rival political factions are forming militias? Of course it is fucking difficult to handle when we have these kinds of wedge issues are discovered and hauled out and we all start lining up on either side. This shit is coming at a pretty catastrophic moment. I feel like a decade ago cooler heads might prevail but not now.

But...maybe they will. I am always hopeful.

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It does now. 

And you don't see how unreasonable that is? It is kind of hard for cooler heads to prevail and to bring us back together when the issue lacks a strong logical basis. It is hard to win hearts and minds that way. Reasonable people can end up on either side. Then it just becomes a power struggle and a political wrestling. That's really bad.

But maybe it won't. Maybe this new committee deal will move us forward. Here is hoping. I sure wish that the evidence that this thing is racist was strong. Like the Jefferson Davis statue shit. I mean no reasonable person would demand we have kept that stupid thing and all you needed to do was bring out a few Jefferson Davis quotes to show he sucked. This is much trickier.

[52-80 19108]

Funny, the song didn't seem to be so divisive when it was sung in unison by black and white athletes and black and white fans for about 100 years

And now someone wants to slap a RACIST label on top of it, which is totally not a divisive move at all.  Scarlet-lettering things that we choose not to like today, totally not divisive.

Edited October 22, 2020 by 52-80

[Randolph Duke 4034]

19 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Funny, the song didn't seem to be so divisive when it was sung in unison by black and white athletes and black and white fans for about 100 years

And now someone wants to slap a RACIST label on top of it, which is totally not a divisive move at all.  Scarlet-lettering things that we choose not to like today, totally not divisive.

Just shut the band down for a couple of years, sort out the controversies, and decide then whether it’s even worth continuing with a school band. 

A school band isn’t worth this much trouble and consternation. 

[52-80 19108]

45 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Just shut the band down for a couple of years, sort out the controversies, and decide then whether it’s even worth continuing with a school band. 

A school band isn’t worth this much trouble and consternation. 

I dont care about the band, but the band isnt the trouble.  The trouble is a section of people deciding on a whim what is and what isnt socially verboten for the rest of the populace.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

I dont care about the band, but the band isnt the trouble.  The trouble is a section of people deciding on a whim what is and what isnt socially verboten for the rest of the populace.

And while all the controversies get sorted out between the current band members, just shut down the band. It especially serves no purpose in the current pandemic environment.

If, at some point in the future, the band can be reconstituted in a way people don’t find so controversial, great. If not, great.

I appreciate the right of those offended by the school song to opt out. Because of the opt-outs, the band can’t perform as things stand. The current membership is too fractured.  

Just shut it down and try to reconstitute the band in the future with musicians who are not offended by playing the song. Save the rest of us all the hysterics.

Recorded music will do just fine in the mean time.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[52-80 19108]

1 minute ago, Randolph Duke said:

And while all the controversies get sorted out between the current band members, just shut down the band. It especially serves no purpose in the current pandemic environment.

If, at some point in the future, the band can be reconstituted in a way people don’t find so controversial, great. If not, great.

Obviously, the band can’t perform as things stand. Just shut it down and save the rest of us all the hysterics. 

Sort the band by the Eyes and not-Eyes team.  Put them in a cage and have them fight to the death.  Broadcast the event on PPV.  Use proceeds to hire a new football coach.

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

DD and BT are either.  
 

the same person trolling everyone from Portland while toppling every statue they find 

or

a gay couple living in a tent in San Fran looking for things that offend them daily.  
 

im not convinced they are actually people though so I’m going with troll 

[MirrOlure 14642]

Yes, it is.

No, it isn’t.

I win.

[BurntOrange&White 39712]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

DD and BT are either.  
 

the same person trolling everyone from Portland while toppling every statue they find 

or

a gay couple living in a tent in San Fran looking for things that offend them daily.  
 

im not convinced they are actually people though so I’m going with troll 

I’d say as much shit posting they do publicly it’s definitely the second option. 

[52-80 19108]

18 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

DD and BT are either.  
 

the same person trolling everyone from Portland while toppling every statue they find 

or

a gay couple living in a tent in San Fran looking for things that offend them daily.  
 

im not convinced they are actually people though so I’m going with troll 

how about a gay couple living in a tent in Portland?

[bad_teammate 13145]

8 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Yup, where the demand outpaces the supply. 

ChickenSandwich, I appreciate you saying the quiet part loud. You freaks think racism is fake.

(look at how popular the post attacking "diversity professors" is... our fanbase is infested with orange Aggies)

7 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

The fact that you see naming things after white Longhorns as racist tells us all we need to know.

lol what?

[BradInATX 9208]

Damn we're boycotting the band now too?

By the time we're done with this Eyes of Texas thing, the only people the resident Hank Hills on this thread will want allowed in the stadium are Bevo, Sam Ehlinger, a couple of fat tuba guys, Jim Spencer, jetpack guy and themselves. Nice little Saturday.

Edited October 22, 2020 by BradInATX

[Newy25 7638]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Division and racism in the United States of America?

No way!

This statement right here tells me you have spent very little, if any time outside of the country. The rest of the world is far more racist than our country. We are by far the most racially inclusive place I have ever lived or worked. Idiots like you who have no perspective outside of your bubble think America is some awful, racist place because you have nothing else to compare it to. 

[BabaYaga 15215]

55 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

DD and BT are either.  
 

the same person trolling everyone from Portland while toppling every statue they find 

or

a gay couple living in a tent in San Fran looking for things that offend them daily.  
 

im not convinced they are actually people though so I’m going with troll 

You just now figured this out.  

[Newy25 7638]

7 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

ad hominem strawman projection.  you could lecture a graduate seminar in trumpkinism.

That cat is the most intellectually dishonest poster on the site. Goal post moving is also the hallmark of a good bad_teammate post. 

[EastTexan 662]

16 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

I bet you came in your pants typing that 

His vag leaked?

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Newy25 said:

This statement right here tells me you have spent very little, if any time outside of the country. The rest of the world is far more racist than our country. We are by far the most racially inclusive place I have ever lived or worked. Idiots like you who have no perspective outside of your bubble think America is some awful, racist place because you have nothing else to compare it to. 

Look at Mr. Moral Relativism over here

[Newy25 7638]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Look at Mr. Moral Relativism over here

Have you found evidence of the 2005 team being like the 2020 team yet? I’m waiting still for you to back up your claim. But you won’t because you a dishonest poster who would rather switch the conversation to some nonsense. 

[Randolph Duke 4034]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

ChickenSandwich, I appreciate you saying the quiet part loud. You freaks think racism is fake.

(look at how popular the post attacking "diversity professors" is... our fanbase is infested with orange Aggies)

lol what?

It's not that people think racism is fake. It is that the definition of what is racist seems poorly defined and extremely fluid.

For decades, the "six flags" of Texas were displayed on flagpoles in the south endzone. Even today I can't remember anyone ever claiming doing so was racist.

So we can fly the flag of the Confederate States of America on campus and no one has a problem, but suddenly EOT is racist?

People can find anything offensive if they try hard enough. The most sensitive individuals don't set the bar for the rest of society. Those finding offense in EOT are absolutely right to express their outrage and not participate in the LHB. Maybe the rest of us will come around to their way of seeing things. Until then, we do as we feel is reasonable and live with our decisions. But not agreeing on what is or isn't racist doesn't necessarily make one a racist, or give those offended to the right to assert ill-motives to the actions of others.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Sort the band by the Eyes and not-Eyes team.  Put them in a cage and have them fight to the death.  Broadcast the event on PPV.  Use proceeds to hire a new football coach.

Can you imagine the destruction to all the fedora hats and half-beards?  Won't someone think of the Dungeons & Dragons wizards?

[bad_teammate 13145]

As I said, you win on that. I'm not going to point out the extremely obvious and well-known problems of the 2005 team because, unlike you guys, publicly crapping on our players isn't something that makes me feel big and strong. If you want to pretend the 2005 team was clean and fully focused on football I won't call your bluff. You win the hand.

You win. You're right. They were models of focused discipline. We all agree and know it's true and I was totally wrong for suggesting otherwise.

But on the topic at hand, we have players who are basically silent on social media about this, not raising a fuss, and not creating a scene. We have a band doing basically the same. We have university leadership being circumspect, as well, and issuing expectations in a way that isn't purposefully divisive and hostile. I'm glad. I wish our fanbase had their emotional strength.

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Randolph Duke said:

So we can fly the flag of the Confederate States of America on campus and no one has a problem, but suddenly EOT is racist?

You ended this with a question mark. Are you interested in a potential answer to it or is it really supposed to end with, "... so there's no way anyone should ever think The Eyes is racially problematic."?

Quote

People can find anything offensive if they try hard enough. The most sensitive individuals don't set the bar for the rest of society. Those finding offense in EOT are absolutely right to express their outrage and not participate in the LHB. Maybe the rest of us will come around to their way of seeing things. Until then, we do as we feel is reasonable and live with our decisions. But not agreeing on what is or isn't racist doesn't necessarily make one a racist, or give those offended to the right to assert ill-motives to the actions of others.

Is this actually happening?

I am someone who (A) thinks The Eyes is not racist and (B) will continue to perform it among those who appreciate it. Am I calling myself racist? Has anyone called me racist?

Have the players said people who sing The Eyes are racist? The band?

 

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Sort the band by the Eyes and not-Eyes team.  Put them in a cage and have them fight to the death.  Broadcast the event on PPV.  Use proceeds to hire a new football coach.

Can we do the same with the anti-Eyes players and Shaggy posters who call them weak?

[BurntOrange&White 39712]

[bad_teammate 13145]

I don't get it, maybe it's an Aggie thing I don't understand.

[Istian 241]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't get it, maybe it's an Aggie thing I don't understand.

Dictionary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

move the goalposts

 

phrase of goalpost

 

1. unfairly alter the conditions or rules of a procedure during its course.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You ended this with a question mark. Are you interested in a potential answer to it or is it really supposed to end with, "... so there's no way anyone should ever think The Eyes is racially problematic."?

Is this actually happening?

I am someone who (A) thinks The Eyes is not racist and (B) will continue to perform it among those who appreciate it. Am I calling myself racist? Has anyone called me racist?

Have the players said people who sing The Eyes are racist? The band?

 

What I am saying is that the definition what what is and what isn't racially offensive is extremely fluid and rather poorly defined.

There is a contradiction in the fact that the flag of the confederacy can be flown aside that of the state and the nation and evidently not be racially offensive, while a school song written in jest can be so racially offensive that it causes some to refuse to be associated with it.

I remember being surprised the first time I saw the confederate flag flying on campus, but if other people are ok with it, so be it. I thought it cringy, but its presence didn't require me to appreciate it, show respect to it or alter my feelings. I had the option of not going to events where it was displayed, if I chose.

The same is true for EOT. If the student musicians don't want to play the song, they can (and have chosen to) opt out. They don't have to appreciate EOT. They don't have to go to events where it will be played. They can live their convictions and, if the band can again be constituted with enough musicians who want to play the song, great. If not, great.

But in the mean time, the band supporters need to sort this out among themselves and save the rest of us the hysterics.

My not agreeing with anyone on whether the history of EOT makes it racist doesn't make me a racist. It doesn't indicate I think the outrage some may feel over the song is fake. It just means I have decided where I stand on the issue and I am comfortable with my decision. Someone else feeling comfortable with flying the confederate flag on campus doesn't necessarily make that person a racist. It just means we disagree on what is and what isn't "racist" and we can simply agree to disagree.

I'm always open to reconsider my position on what is and what isn't racist, but the "EOT is racist" constituency hasn't delivered a very convincing reason for me to rethink where I stand on the issue. I just wish they would either play, or shut the band down until they resolve the issue over time. I really don't care either way, I just don't care to have yet another meaningless controversy going on when FAR more important issues to worry about than the band playing the school song or not.

[Beau Vine 54016]

10 hours ago, PW119 said:

Have you not seen what this University has become? You can pretty much get a degree in wokeness. We are reaping what’s been sowed. It’s fucking horrible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

10 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Diversity professors find division and racism everywhere. Their job depends on it!!

Dear immamac,

Major glitch in your software -- I clicked on the Surly football board link, but was routed to texags.  

Please fix ASAP.

 

Sincereley,

BV

[Tex Pete 20190]

56 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Damn we're boycotting the band now too?

You aren’t following along very well, dumbass. The band is boycotting itself. They literally have not played this year. 

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Randolph Duke said:

But in the mean time, the band supporters need to sort this out among themselves and save the rest of us the hysterics.

What "hysterics" have either the players or band participated in?

Please answer that question.

- The players went into the locker room. Zero of them Tweeted about it or otherwise created drama on social media about The Eyes.
- The band said they weren't coming. Zero of them Tweeted about it or otherwise created drama on social media about The Eyes.

Quote

My not agreeing with anyone on whether the history of EOT makes it racist doesn't make me a racist.

Has anyone said that it does?

Please answer this question.

[BurntOrange&White 39712]

[David Dennison 18683]

53 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

This statement right here tells me you have spent very little, if any time outside of the country. The rest of the world is far more racist than our country. We are by far the most racially inclusive place I have ever lived or worked. Idiots like you who have no perspective outside of your bubble think America is some awful, racist place because you have nothing else to compare it to. 

That does nothing to change the fact that America in 2020 is plagued by systemic racism born of slavery.

[BurntOrange&White 39712]

I’ll wait for the utopian society where there is nothing wrong ever. 

[David Dennison 18683]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

I’ll wait for the utopian society where there is nothing wrong ever. 

Says the member of the privileged caste.

[Beau Vine 54016]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Funny, the song didn't seem to be so divisive when it was sung in unison by black and white athletes and black and white fans for about 100 years

Black people have been going to UT for 100 years?

 

[BurntOrange&White 39712]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Says the member of the privileged caste.

bold assumption and I find that assumption to be racist. Consider yourself canceled kid. You will be notified by the blue check marks on Twitter. 

[Randolph Duke 4034]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That does nothing to change the fact that America in 2020 is plagued by systemic racism born of slavery.

Yep. It's also plagued by the divide between labor and capital, the systemic schism cause by The Reformation, and by systemic male gender domination. We blatantly discriminate against the disabled. Age bias is rampant. It's plagued by a lot.

People in general are real shitheads, aren't they?

Some things we fight to change. Others we learn to live with. It's called life.

An amazing thing to me is that at UT, EOT is the subject of racial offense, while on the A&M campus, their alumni/faculty Klan robe collection doesn't rate a second thought. A striking cultural difference in what is and what isn't considered racist, even by the most strident activists on either campus.

Just another example of how people can agree to disagree on the issue of racism and still coexist.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[TriStone 1724]

 

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

im not convinced they are actually people though so I’m going with troll 

I've never thought they were the same person, but it is strange how they both show up into threads at the same time and post on top of each other.  They're like Surly's very own Bert and Ernie.  Very odd.

Edited October 22, 2020 by TriStone

[52-80 19108]

15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Black people have been going to UT for 100 years?

 

100 years in metric is about 62 years imperial, so just about right

[David Dennison 18683]

6 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Yep. It's also plagued by the divide between labor and capital, the systemic schism cause by The Reformation, and by systemic male gender domination. We blatantly discriminate against the disabled. Age bias is rampant. It's plagued by a lot.

People in general are real shitheads, aren't they?

Some things we fight to change. Others we learn to live with. It's called life.

Correct. This particular dust up currently falls in former category and people don't like it.