Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Deej 76599]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This entire thread is trolling from the folks who have a problem with the student athletes who no longer want to sing the Eyes. 

"But I couldn't care less."

[David Dennison 18683]

Watching y'all lose your shit over this has been great.

I especially like it when people get so flustered they get homophobic.

[bad_teammate 13145]

3 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

So because we disagree with you and your opinion,  we are useless idiots....

Depends on which opinion. The idiots are the ones spewing invective and lies about our student body to feel tough on an Internet message boards.

2 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

When do you plan on apologizing for singing a song rooted in racism? 

Never. I like America and it was founded by slave owners and slave apologists. I like tacos and I don't check the beef to make sure it was cruelty free. Life is about difficult moral choices and moral ambiguity and the ability to navigate those waters without being a big whining bitch who cries about teenagers online so that other big whining bitches like them.

1 hour ago, Burntcowboy said:

So you honestly think everyone that performed in a minstrel show was racist?

The minstrel show itself is racist even if the participants were not, necessarily, racist themselves.

[Deej 76599]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The minstrel show itself is racist even if the participants were not, necessarily, racist themselves.

Much like the the protests this summer were riots, even if some of the participants were not necessarily rioters themselves?

[David Dennison 18683]

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

Much like the the protests this summer were riots, even if some of the participants were not necessarily rioters themselves?

A minstrel show is, by definition, racist.

[bad_teammate 13145]

14 minutes ago, Deej said:

Much like the the protests this summer were riots, even if some of the participants were not necessarily rioters themselves?

No. The vast majority of this summer's protests were extremely peaceful. That's just factual truth.

I'm sorry your feelings steer you away from factual truth.

[bad_teammate 13145]

Yes, we are at the point in the thread where we are defending minstrel shows.

lol fuck me running

[CTC2 2753]

I don't think that the EOT is overtly or slightly racist.  What some idiots did 100 years ago has no bearing on what the song has come to mean to people who had no idea of minstrel shows.  Even if it had a racist meaning (which I don't concede), that meaning has been washed away over the course of a century.  I think that complaining about the EOT is carrying things too far.  BUT, this is all on the University.  They failed for way too long to not address symbols of actual racism on campus.  There is no way it should have taken until 2020 to change the name of the RLM Bldg.  The civil war statutes should have been removed long before they were.  When I was there in the late 80's there were Sambo shirts, Old South parties with people dressed in blackface and Klan outfits, and shirts with confederate glorification.  Go look at the 89-90 Cactus and see what the controversy was about with regards to the Round Up Parade.  

Leadership failed to address these long festering issues.  Not surprised it blew up on them.

[B00M 6280]

7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Yep.

The dream scenario is that we talk it out like adults, make sure the kids know we love them and that this song actually means we are united, make sure that they understand the deep meaning of The Eyes and that it has already overcome its minstrel origins and that we are OK with them needing time to understand it.

It's basic leadership. It's how you lead with calm and controlled authority and not shrieking insecurity.

"I know you're upset and I can understand why you are. I know it's an imperfect and ugly history and I know you're young and don't really feel the connections many of us feel. We support you as you find your way and we are listening to you the whole time with respect and love. You'll get there with us because we're all family."

In practice, how do you actually do this? A bunch of commercials narrated by Ricky that air during our games? 

[bad_teammate 13145]

16 minutes ago, B00M said:

In practice, how do you actually do this? A bunch of commercials narrated by Ricky that air during our games? 

No need for that. 

1) Remain in constant communication with the players and never be an asshole to them. (apparently being done)
2) Get a credible committee to research The Eyes' history and put together a report on it. (being done)
3) Present that credible committee's report to the student-athletes. (coming in January)

We know what the report will say:
- The song's lyrics aren't racist.
- The song was originally performed at a minstrel show.
- The song's performance hasn't been racially targeted.
- The song has had powerful and positive influence for over a century.

Let the process play out. Take the report and argue, "The song itself isn't racist like we thought it might be. We know the history and aren't hiding from it. We are going to choose to capitalize on the good and move forward. We really appreciate you players for voicing your concerns and pushing us to do an accounting that we should have done before. We look forward to working with you guys on future issues that impact the campus community generally and black Longhorns specifically. You are valued and valuable and we're proud to call you our Longhorn family. Thank you again for pushing for this important healing moment, we're all stronger and more unified because of it. (Oh and we appreciate your discrete use of social media on this and not taking the racist and/or stupid portion of our fanbase's bait.)"

Then the players are on board and everyone else will follow them.

Edited October 23, 2020 by bad_teammate

[Apex73 313]

Bottom line is that it's sad that we are still discussing this and the team still sucks at what they are here to do.  They are soft and the more we avoid focusing on football and more on this nonsense the less likely it's going to get any better.  Coaching staff is obviously soft too and way too timid to set a principle standard that should have ended this shit months ago.  Then they make excuses for the team as if they see improvement and actually expect us to believe that we will roll out a championship team on Saturdays.  It's just not happening.  They don't do anything well.  These kids have grown up in a society where they get rewarded for call out culture.  If you call out something privately you get no social points but if you do it publicly you get the points which is crucial to your social capital.  It allows you not to think because the problem and solution have already been force fed to you in your echo chamber.  I'll bet they haven't questioned once whether or not they might be wrong.  

[Burntcowboy 1845]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Depends on which opinion. The idiots are the ones spewing invective and lies about our student body to feel tough on an Internet message boards.

Never. I like America and it was founded by slave owners and slave apologists. I like tacos and I don't check the beef to make sure it was cruelty free. Life is about difficult moral choices and moral ambiguity and the ability to navigate those waters without being a big whining bitch who cries about teenagers online so that other big whining bitches like them.

The minstrel show itself is racist even if the participants were not, necessarily, racist themselves.

Was a minstrel show considered racist back when they were being performed 

[David Dennison 18683]

8 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Bottom line is that it's sad that we are still discussing this and the team still sucks at what they are here to do.  They are soft and the more we avoid focusing on football and more on this nonsense the less likely it's going to get any better.  Coaching staff is obviously soft too and way too timid to set a principle standard that should have ended this shit months ago.  Then they make excuses for the team as if they see improvement and actually expect us to believe that we will roll out a championship team on Saturdays.  It's just not happening.  They don't do anything well.  These kids have grown up in a society where they get rewarded for call out culture.  If you call out something privately you get no social points but if you do it publicly you get the points which is crucial to your social capital.  It allows you not to think because the problem and solution have already been force fed to you in your echo chamber.  I'll bet they haven't questioned once whether or not they might be wrong.  

Have you?

[Apex73 313]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Have you?

Indeed I have. Doesn't make anything I said above less true.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Apex73

[Kyle 207]

A racist once played football. Let’s ban football. 

[Kyle 207]

Africa sold slaves .. let’s ban ... wait ... what?

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

44 minutes ago, Burntcowboy said:

Was a minstrel show considered racist back when they were being performed 

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

[Kyle 207]

34 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

It’s a moving target... whatever gets the millennials butthurt today and requires a safe space

[David Dennison 18683]

13 minutes ago, Kyle said:

It’s a moving target... whatever gets the millennials butthurt today and requires a safe space

Millennials are olds, bro.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Millennials are olds, bro.

Whatever boomer. 

[UncleSonny 6564]

58 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

15 minutes ago, Kyle said:

It’s a moving target... whatever gets the millennials butthurt today and requires a safe space

Holy shit, is this really where you want to take this? Minstrel shows...are they really just misunderstood? Slavery wasn't looked down on polite society 150 years ago either, is that because the next generation got butthurt and needed a safe space from humans owning other humans? Yeah, I guess the literally did need a safe space from that. Those pesky moving targets. 

Or, so nobody confuses me of moving the goalposts or using a strawman, lets use minstrel shows. Shows that depicted black people as lazy morons that were a slight step up from animals, all for the lulz of the white audience who were still smarting from losing their property 50 years before. Who gives a shit what people thought about it at the time, minstrel shows are racist and a shameful part of our past. Just like slavery, just like Jim Crow laws. 

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

9 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Holy shit, is this really where you want to take this? Minstrel shows...are they really just misunderstood? Slavery wasn't looked down on polite society 150 years ago either, is that because the next generation got butthurt and needed a safe space from humans owning other humans? Yeah, I guess the literally did need a safe space from that. Those pesky moving targets. 

Or, so nobody confuses me of moving the goalposts or using a strawman, lets use minstrel shows. Shows that depicted black people as lazy morons that were a slight step up from animals, all for the lulz of the white audience who were still smarting from losing their property 50 years before. Who gives a shit what people thought about it at the time, minstrel shows are racist and a shameful part of our past. Just like slavery, just like Jim Crow laws. 

Sure. From today. Were they thought of that way then?  Or sort of a Saturday night live sketch comedy type variety show?  The reason I’m asking this is bc that could play somewhat at that being the venue for the song being introduced. 
it’s horrific now. Pretty horrific at any pint in time in my lifetime (born in 78). Curious as to what someone in 1900 would have thought of them. 

[David Dennison 18683]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sure. From today. Were they thought of that way then?  Or sort of a Saturday night live sketch comedy type variety show?  The reason I’m asking this is bc that could play somewhat at that being the venue for the song being introduced. 
it’s horrific now. Pretty horrific at any pint in time in my lifetime (born in 78). Curious as to what someone in 1900 would have thought of them. 

Blackface in 1900 was just good, clean fun.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Blackface in 1900 was just good, clean fun.

Maybe?  Judging historical people by modern standards without historical context is a fools errand in a lot of ways. 

[Helobious 9489]

2 hours ago, Burntcowboy said:

Was a minstrel show considered racist back when they were being performed 

 

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

What do you guys think black people thought of minstrel shows back in 1900? Have you ever thought of it that way? 

[David Dennison 18683]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Maybe?  Judging historical people by modern standards without historical context is a fools errand in a lot of ways. 

We're talking about a time in American history when white people gathered for lynchings as a form of entertainment. Folks could even buy merch if they wanted to. 

I don't think it really matters if they thought what they were doing was racist.

It was racist.

  

 

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

14 minutes ago, Helobious said:

 

What do you guys think black people thought of minstrel shows back in 1900? Have you ever thought of it that way? 

That’s a good question. Seriously. I’d be interested to see contemporaneous commentary from black people in 1900 talking about that. 
I was a history/government major at UT. I loved reading historical primary source documents. I have literally never been exposed to any contemporaneous or primary source documents or talk about what that was like.  

Edited October 23, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We're talking about a time in American history when white people gathered for lynchings as a form of entertainment. Folks could even buy merch if they wanted to. 

I don't think it really matters if they thought what they were doing was racist.

It was racist.

  

 

That sort of brings the point home though. Progressive people/northerners were horrified by the lynchings at the time. It wasn’t considered ok at the time by many, but obviously lots of people were ok with it. What was the prevailing thought at the time?  I don’t know. Do you?  If so, please feel free to share. I’d love to see it. 

[David Dennison 18683]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That sort of brings the point home though. Progressive people/northerners were horrified by the lynchings at the time. It wasn’t considered ok at the time by many, but obviously lots of people were ok with it. What was the prevailing thought at the time?  I don’t know. Do you?  If so, please feel free to share. I’d love to see it. 

This should give you an idea of the prevailing thought in Texas.

https://wacohistory.org/items/show/55

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/jesse-washington-lynching

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-waco-horror/

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This should give you an idea of the prevailing thought in Texas.

https://wacohistory.org/items/show/55

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/jesse-washington-lynching

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-waco-horror/

Not lynchings dude. Minstrel shows. 
I’m well aware that a shamefully high amount of southerners were fine with and participated in lynching while progressive southerners and northerners were horrified. 
I’m asking about what the prevailing attitude toward minstrel shows was. 

[Valmy77 13125]

Well this conversation took a bizarre direction.

[David Dennison 18683]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Not lynchings dude. Minstrel shows. 
I’m well aware that a shamefully high amount of southerners were fine with and participated in lynching while progressive southerners and northerners were horrified. 
I’m asking about what the prevailing attitude toward minstrel shows was. 

Considering their popularity, I'm thinking white folks were down.

[Valmy77 13125]

 

2 hours ago, Kyle said:

A racist once played football. Let’s ban football. 

Well more like a prominent KKK member once coached football here at UT so now football is associated with the KKK so how can we force these African Americans on football scholarships to play football. 

I don't think simply having the KKK once being heavily involved in football in the past means football is associated with the KKK.

But I guess if that association is just too painful then maybe we should no longer play football. That would suck.

Is that a dramatically different situation? I mean we are just talking about an association. There is nothing about football that is inherently a KKK activity.

But maybe there is a significant way that line of thinking differs from the EOT. I don't know.

[Valmy77 13125]

And the association of Texas football with the KKK is MUCH stronger. I mean we have film, pictures, interviews, Dana X Bible's Klan Robes over in College Station. Evidence and first hand accounts and documented associations for miles. That is a much more powerful and close association then the Eyes of Texas and Minstrel Shows.

[High Plains Drifter 10984]

2 hours ago, Kyle said:

Africa sold slaves .. let’s ban ... wait ... what?

 

what point exactly do you think you are making?

 

[Thatguy 8541]

9 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, we are at the point in the thread where we are defending minstrel shows.

lol fuck me running

I peeked in and read someone defending minstrel shows....lol. Is that for real?

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

8 hours ago, Burntcowboy said:

Was a minstrel show considered racist back when they were being performed 

You're talking about a period of time when a black person could get physically attacked for making eye contact or not stepping off the side walk when a white person walked by. There were a lot of racist things not considered racist back then. 

[Wally Pryor 5245]

 

[Whitman 694]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTeUdJky9rY

If y'all would have just had John Denver write you a new song, this problem would go away...

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Whitman

[Burntcowboy 1845]

7 hours ago, Helobious said:

 

What do you guys think black people thought of minstrel shows back in 1900? Have you ever thought of it that way? 

My guess is most of them hated it and they way it made fun of them and a few others never gave it a second thought 

[Lidig8r 1860]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I peeked in and read someone defending minstrel shows....lol. Is that for real?

Bing thought they were peachy keen groovy.

 

[bad_teammate 13145]

10 hours ago, Apex73 said:

These kids have grown up in a society where they get rewarded for call out culture.  If you call out something privately you get no social points but if you do it publicly you get the points which is crucial to your social capital.

Social commentary recycled from some washed up comedian who is mad no one younger than 50 likes him.

A problem with this garbage commentary is that the players aren't blanketing social media talking about this. In fact, I can't think of an example of ONE of them talking about it. Overshown talked about the "real fans" in reaction to a tidal wave of hatred and racism thrown at the players because of the controversy. Can you, or anyone else, show evidence of this socially open clout chasing?

Pretty please, with sugar on top.

[bad_teammate 13145]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I peeked in and read someone defending minstrel shows....lol. Is that for real?

Yes. Not just someone, but multiple.

Not even sure TexAgs would defend minstrel shows.

[HeyMcFly 144]

7 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

what point exactly do you think you are making?

 

not a very good one.

[Newy25 7638]

34 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Social commentary recycled from some washed up comedian who is mad no one younger than 50 likes him.

A problem with this garbage commentary is that the players aren't blanketing social media talking about this. In fact, I can't think of an example of ONE of them talking about it. Overshown talked about the "real fans" in reaction to a tidal wave of hatred and racism thrown at the players because of the controversy. Can you, or anyone else, show evidence of this socially open clout chasing?

Pretty please, with sugar on top.

Apex is a comedian? Did you make that up like everything else you do or is that legit? 

[bad_teammate 13145]

7 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Apex is a comedian? Did you make that up like everything else you do or is that legit? 

recycled from

From (preposition) - indicating the point in space at which a journey, motion, or action starts.

If my water bottled was made FROM recycled plastics, those plastics came from elsewhere and were used to make the bottle. If his take is recycled FROM someone else, that means he took that (garbage) take and recycled it to make it his own here.

I know you are very mad at me all the time and want to yip at me like a little dog, but reading comprehension should feature somewhat into your practice.

[Newy25 7638]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

recycled from

From (preposition) - indicating the point in space at which a journey, motion, or action starts.

If my water bottled was made FROM recycled plastics, those plastics came from elsewhere and were used to make the bottle. If his take is recycled FROM someone else, that means he took that (garbage) take and recycled it to make it his own here.

I know you are very mad at me all the time and want to yip at me like a little dog, but reading comprehension should feature somewhat into your practice.

So still two posts later, it’s still not clear who’s opinion you are talking about. Well done. 
 

[Pancho 44535]

10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

Stop.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

Stop.

Helo had a good question as to what contemporary black people thought at the time. I’m curious as to that question. You have any ideas?  

[General Specific 3235]

Considering their popularity, I'm thinking white folks were down.

Let’s try this another way. Opinion is one thing, but what some are asking is to show work or sources cited.

https://www.britannica.com/art/minstrel-show

Not as clear cut as it would seem.

With new information, we get to make new decisions.