Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Indeed.

https://www.americanheritage.com/blackface-sad-history-minstrel-shows

Thanks. I read the first page of that article and saw the Frederick Douglas quote and it looks like exactly what I'm looking for but long as fuck. I ain't got time to read that at work- but will check it out over the weekend.  Appreciate that. 

[Thatguy 8541]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes. Not just someone, but multiple.

Not even sure TexAgs would defend minstrel shows.

   I don't post on the football board very often anymore, because...well....look around...

  But I had to laugh at this in particular. Once again, we have yet another thread of white guys telling black guys how to think and feel. Basically calling them pussies, telling them to suck it up, and calling them snowflakes. Then I turn on the news and see white guys losing their damn minds over temporarily having to wear a mask. Telling white guys to do anything that makes them uncomfortable seems to bring out far more vitriol, but here we are.

 

[Newy25 7638]

Just now, Don Johnson said:

Hasn't this song been co-opted for "good" long, long since? 

The traditional Longhorn uniform was worn by a segregated football team for 75 + years.  But it has since proudly been worn by many black players.  No one wants to stop wearing the uniform because of ties to segregated teams.   Its taken on a new meaning over the past 50 years.

The song was once performed at a minstrel show in 1903 by performers "likely" donning blackface.  But has since been proudly sung by many black players and coaches.  Hasn't it taken on a new meaning since that day in 1903?  

This is where the cancel culture argument breaks down. You could literally find anything racist using a very narrow, arbitrary and brand new definition of the term. Most view racism as belief systems that portray the superiority of one race over the other. That’s not the new definition of racism is by some. To some it means anything that I can attach by association to that thing in any point in time is racist. Even if the thing is clearly not used to suggest racial superiority, it’s racist if I can find something or someone in its history that was racist. 

Using the reasonable person standard, that’s a pretty silly way to look at things. Not to mention, now we are resorting to inventing historical facts to meet even that standard of racism. See the recent controversy of who is playing Cleopatra in a movie. They both invented a new reality of historical facts and changed the meaning of racism to get to the outrage. And people honestly should be called out for this. That’s why standing up to this way of thinking is important. 

[Apex73 313]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A throwaway dig comparing you to Bill Burr or whatever really seems to have hit a nerve.

This right here: "These kids have grown up in a society where they get rewarded for call out culture.  If you call out something privately you get no social points but if you do it publicly you get the points which is crucial to your social capital."

Turn on the Joe Rogan podcast with any ep with a comedian and just pick a random spot in any of them and this is basically verbatim. Maybe you consume that kind of crap and are repeating it or maybe your brilliant mind came up with it in a vacuum, either way it's idiotic and, in this case, completely inaccurate.

I asked if you had evidence if the players were crowing out this on social media for clout, but instead of dealing with that simple question you continue to roll around on the turf like a soccer player because I accurately mocked the type of dumb crap you're spouting.

The players ARE NOT "do(ing) it publicly" to "get the points which (are) crucial to your social capital". The players are silent about this on social media.

Your dumb take isn't even close to being accurate.

Was all popular entertainment in the 19th century called "minstrelsy" or just a specific type?

Please answer this question.

A few threatened to quit on social media this past summer and they certainly haven't been silent about it elsewhere.  They all sang it last year before they knew the origins of the song, which tells me their is social capital to be gained by agreeing with this nonsense publicly and shitting on anyone who disagrees.  I will say I haven't seen one player badmouth a fan but they certainly have supported this crap and I think that reason has to do with social capital to be gained because they all sang it last year when their wasn't capital to be gained.  You live with your head in the sand.  Once again, you have no credibility with me and hopefully not with many.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

25 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Are you claiming that "all lighthearted entertainment for the urban masses" were by definition minstrel shows? Or asked another way, were all vaudeville styled shows termed minstrel shows back then? 

Good question.  Where is the overlap and what's differentiating between the two art forms as well? I don't even keep up with modern music and art forms let alone do a historical dive into that. 

Sounded like a lot of the songs were written and composed (and some performed) by black people. Was there a respect for some of the spirituals I wonder?  Was there an appreciation in the shows for any of the black culture or was it all mocking and ridicule.  And would a minstrel show be considered an appropriate platform to perform any kind of new number- or do they deal pretty exlusively with racial issues.

Realize I'm not asking you any of this stuff Cat (but if you know it cool) just springboard from your question to some other ones I have. 

[Helobious 9489]

8 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Yep, and the first popular character from the minstrel era was "Jim crow." I get it.

But It is absolutely possible to replicate the minstrel show format without including material that includes degrading portrayals of others. 

At a fundamental level, that would not be a minstrel show. So no, you really can’t. I don’t know how you define a minstrel show. It clearly deviates from every historical and accepted definition, so that’s the last I will speak on it with you as no further progress can be made. 

[David Dennison 18693]

12 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Appears to me there is no problem. Only people like you who seem to create non existent problems and move goal post once they’ve been dealt with. 
 

seems the problem rest inside your head. But hey you couldn’t care less remember?

You're right. This probably won't be an issue anymore during football season, basketball season, graduation, etc., etc.

It's all solved.

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

Just now, David Dennison said:

You're right. This probably won't be an issue anymore during football season, basketball season, graduation, etc., etc.

It's all solved.

Sounding a little flushed. It’s okay bud. You can always circle back to a new argument later 

[David Dennison 18693]

7 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

This is where the cancel culture argument breaks down. You could literally find anything racist using a very narrow, arbitrary and brand new definition of the term. Most view racism as belief systems that portray the superiority of one race over the other. That’s not the new definition of racism is by some. To some it means anything that I can attach by association to that thing in any point in time is racist. Even if the thing is clearly not used to suggest racial superiority, it’s racist if I can find something or someone in its history that was racist. 

Using the reasonable person standard, that’s a pretty silly way to look at things. Not to mention, now we are resorting to inventing historical facts to meet even that standard of racism. See the recent controversy of who is playing Cleopatra in a movie. They both invented a new reality of historical facts and changed the meaning of racism to get to the outrage. And people honestly should be called out for this. That’s why standing up to this way of thinking is important. 

Telling African Americans that they must show deference and respect for a symbol they find offensive is absolutely a form of racial intimidation.

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Telling African Americans that they must show deference and respect for a symbol they find offensive is absolutely a form of racial intimidation.

Why are you still talking? You couldn’t care less. 

[bad_teammate 13145]

15 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Wrong, again. By saying the EOT is racist and it needs to be cancelled, it implies those who like the song and sing it proudly and do not share that view are in fact racists. That’s why the intellectually dishonest view as painting the song itself as racist is not only stupid it’s very decisive. 

Who here called The Eyes racist?

This entire chain of imagined offense starts from vapor. I know you guys desperately want to be called racist so you can bluster and whine, but no one is calling you racist. It's way more banal, you're just stupid.

10 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

A few threatened to quit on social media this past summer and they certainly haven't been silent about it elsewhere. 

Quote it.

I can show you 100+ page threads of alumni bleeding out of their eyeballs and social media posts from fans all day long. Show me the players. Do it.

Quote

I will say I haven't seen one player badmouth a fan

Cool, shut the fuck up now you whining bitch of a man.

[Newy25 7638]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Telling African Americans that they must show deference and respect for a symbol they find offensive is absolutely a form of racial intimidation.

It someone has formed that opinion and that opinion is based on ignorance the solution is to not cancel the song it is to have an open discussion so people can learn and be heard. Just because you are ignorant we are not cancelling something that is clearly not racist just because of your feelings. No the EOT is not a song about slavery or racial oppression. No Cleopatra was not a woman a color and was actually from a line descended from Macedonia. We do not cancel things because YOU are ignorant. We educate you on the facts. That’s the better solution. 

[bad_teammate 13145]

Just now, Newy25 said:

No the EOT is not a song about slavery or racial oppression.

Was it introduced to campus at a minstrel show?

What if a black Longhorn says, "I know the lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer, I do not want to sing a song introduced at a minstrel show or participate silently in its performance."?

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Was it introduced to campus at a minstrel show?

What if a black Longhorn says, "I know the lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer, I do not want to sing a song introduced at a minstrel show or participate silently in its performance."?

[Newy25 7638]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Was it introduced to campus at a minstrel show?

What if a black Longhorn says, "I know the lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer, I do not want to sing a song introduced at a minstrel show or participate silently in its performance."?

You do an amazing job of simultaneously arguing no one is calling this a racial issue while arguing it’s also a racial issue and we need to recognize that. Literally in consecutive posts. That’s fucking amazing unless you failed to logout of your sock account before your next post. 

[Helobious 9489]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Good question.  Where is the overlap and what's differentiating between the two art forms as well? I don't even keep up with modern music and art forms let alone do a historical dive into that. 

Sounded like a lot of the songs were written and composed (and some performed) by black people. Was there a respect for some of the spirituals I wonder?  Was there an appreciation in the shows for any of the black culture or was it all mocking and ridicule.  And would a minstrel show be considered an appropriate platform to perform any kind of new number- or do they deal pretty exlusively with racial issues.

Minstrels are by definition acts that satirized the black experience in America. Not much “respect” was played to anything, they were comedy shows mostly. Despite what Randolph says, black participation in minstrels was not very common, especially in regards to onstage acting. They were more commonly used as musicians, if they were to participate at all. They were overwhelmingly written and performed by whites for white audiences. About the only positive that can be said for them is that they introduced many white audiences to certain black dances (the Charleston was popularized from the “Juba” dance being done in minstrels) and music. 

[Apex73 313]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who here called The Eyes racist?

This entire chain of imagined offense starts from vapor. I know you guys desperately want to be called racist so you can bluster and whine, but no one is calling you racist. It's way more banal, you're just stupid.

Quote it.

I can show you 100+ page threads of alumni bleeding out of their eyeballs and social media posts from fans all day long. Show me the players. Do it.

Cool, shut the fuck up now you whining bitch of a man.

Lol my goodness you are so feminine.

[Apex73 313]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Was it introduced to campus at a minstrel show?

What if a black Longhorn says, "I know the lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer, I do not want to sing a song introduced at a minstrel show or participate silently in its performance."?

Then I would say they aren't true Longhorns.  They certainly don't play that way.

[David Dennison 18693]

6 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

It someone has formed that opinion and that opinion is based on ignorance the solution is to not cancel the song it is to have an open discussion so people can learn and be heard. Just because you are ignorant we are not cancelling something that is clearly not racist just because of your feelings. No the EOT is not a song about slavery or racial oppression. No Cleopatra was not a woman a color and was actually from a line descended from Macedonia. We do not cancel things because YOU are ignorant. We educate you on the facts. That’s the better solution. 

I don't think the song should be cancelled. I think it should be left to the students to decide whether they want to participate.

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Newy25 said:

You do an amazing job of simultaneously arguing no one is calling this a racial issue while arguing it’s also a racial issue and we need to recognize that.

"Racist" and "racial issue" are different things.

- The Eyes itself is not racist.
- It's origin is racially problematic.

This isn't complicated to understand.

We are stuck in a loop.

 

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

Just now, David Dennison said:

I don't think the song should be cancelled. I think it should be left to the students to decide whether they want to participate.

Current students > hundreds of thousands of alumni?

 

why still commenting. Shouldn’t you be not caring less 

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Apex73 said:

Then I would say they aren't true Longhorns.

Why?

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

37 minutes ago, Pancho said:

You know what this answer is so it's unclear why you're purposely choosing to be obtuse.  

 

Not really man.  I'm reading DD's link this weekend.  Black people now find this horrific- if someone gets caught doing it it's a career ender- the person is deemed a racist (deservedly so) all sorts of bad shit rains down on them. During the contemporary time would this be seen as a big deal?  Little deal? Not of importance? From the Brittanica link from GS it says blacks were composers, writers and sometimes performers, so some people made a living doing this. Would that have been a respectable living?  Making the best of a bad situation?

I'm not being obtuse- I like historical context especially when something exists that I've never heard before.  Hell, I listen to and buy all Dan Carlin's shit on hardcore history and his last series he's working on is Japan in WW2 and he starts it in the 1500's and it takes him a smooth 8 hours to get to the start of WW2 providing context, and I like that stuff.

This is something I'm a blank slate on and I'm asking people if they have answers. I've now been given 2 separate links that both look reputable and I'm going to read those and process them (the DD link was 10 pages long so not right now).  

I know how contemporary black people feel about it, and contemporary whites, but I don't know the historical context that this operated in.  That's what I'm asking for.  And in a public way.  I try to let context help be my guide to how I should feel about something and not judge everyone by today's standards and beliefs and knowledge.  

 

[bad_teammate 13145]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Current students > hundreds of thousands of alumni?

He's simply advocating for freedom to choose. You know, the choice the alumni make all the time when they flood out of the stadium and don't participate in the singing of The Eyes.

[Newy25 7638]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

"Racist" and "racial issue" are different things.

- The Eyes itself is not racist.
- It's origin is racially problematic.

This isn't complicated to understand.

We are stuck in a loop.

 

So you playing word semantics to suggest all of us on the other side are overreacting no one is calling this racist but we should cancel this because it is racially offensive to others? You are quite honestly full of shit sir. 

[David Dennison 18693]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Current students > hundreds of thousands of alumni?

why still commenting. Shouldn’t you be not caring less 

If current students and student athletes choose not to participate, that doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of alumni have to do the same. 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13145]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

From the Brittanica link from GS it says blacks were composers, writers and sometimes performers, so some people made a living doing this. Would that have been a respectable living?  Making the best of a bad situation?

So you agree that the minstrel show was a bad situation?

lol I want you to stop because you're embarrassing our university, but I want to see how deep you can dig yourself so please keep going.

[David Dennison 18693]

Just now, Newy25 said:

So you playing word semantics to suggest all of us on the other side are overreacting no one is calling this racist but we should cancel this because it is racially offensive to others? You are quite honestly full of shit sir. 

Who on this site is saying the Eyes of Texas should be canceled?

[bad_teammate 13145]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Who on this site is saying the Eyes of Texas should be canceled?

No one. But these guys don't need attackers to be victims.

They are victims in their minds and hearts.

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He's simply advocating for freedom to choose. You know, the choice the alumni make all the time when they flood out of the stadium and don't participate in the singing of The Eyes.

What choice?

 

president and BoR already made a choice. 
 

Regents chairman Kevin Eltife reiterated the board’s approval of Hartzell’s announcement that “The Eyes” will remain the university song even though some band members are now refusing to play it.

“To be clear, the UT System Board of Regents stands unequivocally and unanimously in support of President Hartzell’s announcement that The Eyes of Texas is, and will remain, the official school song,” Eltife said in a statement.

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

DD doesn’t care but is repeatedly posting. Cringe 

[David Dennison 18693]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

What choice?

 

president and BoR already made a choice. 
 

Regents chairman Kevin Eltife reiterated the board’s approval of Hartzell’s announcement that “The Eyes” will remain the university song even though some band members are now refusing to play it.

“To be clear, the UT System Board of Regents stands unequivocally and unanimously in support of President Hartzell’s announcement that The Eyes of Texas is, and will remain, the official school song,” Eltife said in a statement.

That's great. The issue of forcing student athletes to participate will be an ongoing headache until the administration comes up with a better solution.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

40 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Yep, and the first popular character from the minstrel era was "Jim crow." I get it.

But It is absolutely possible to replicate the minstrel show format without including material that includes degrading portrayals of others. And because of that, for people to claim "minstrel = evil" oversimplifies the issue. If you simply equate "minstrel = evil" the you avoid the truly uncomfortable reality that there has always been a part of our culture that derives entertainment out of the degradation of others.

Promote "minstrel = evil" all you want, but even if you stamp out everything related to the minstrel show format that you can possibly find, you will still be left with the problem of not having dealt with the reality that part of our culture still derives entertainment out of the degradation of others (or at least is indifferent to the degradation of others). And simply passing that down to the next generation would be a pile of steaming shit our generation would have passed down for others.

The problem is the mindset, not the art form allowing that mindset to be expressed. If not through minstrel shows, how is that mindset still being expressed on campus, and in our culture. Because that racist mindset unquestionable still exists today, well after the demise of the minstrel show format..

But in my mind, I do not think that mindset is being perpetuated by the singing of EOT.

How many jokes can you tell me, that aren't, at their base- mocking someone or something?  

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

Just now, David Dennison said:

That's great. The issue of forcing student athletes to participate will be an ongoing headache until the administration comes up with a better solution.

Regents chairman Kevin Eltife reiterated the board’s approval of Hartzell’s announcement that “The Eyes” will remain the university song even though some band members are now refusing to play it.

“To be clear, the UT System Board of Regents stands unequivocally and unanimously in support of President Hartzell’s announcement that The Eyes of Texas is, and will remain, the official school song,” Eltife said in a statement.

[David Dennison 18693]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Regents chairman Kevin Eltife reiterated the board’s approval of Hartzell’s announcement that “The Eyes” will remain the university song even though some band members are now refusing to play it.

“To be clear, the UT System Board of Regents stands unequivocally and unanimously in support of President Hartzell’s announcement that The Eyes of Texas is, and will remain, the official school song,” Eltife said in a statement.

I'm sure that will put the issue to bed.

LOL

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That's great. The issue of forcing student athletes to participate will be an ongoing headache until the administration comes up with a better solution.

If you’ve paid attention to anything instead of spewing diarrhea from your hands on your keyboard you’d know they don’t have to participate but they have to show respect to the fans after games. But hey keep arguing something!!!

[David Dennison 18693]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

If you’ve paid attention to anything instead of spewing diarrhea from your hands on your keyboard you’d know they don’t have to participate but they have to show respect to the fans after games. But hey keep arguing something!!!

That's the problem.

[redswingline 1057]

118 ****ing pages about this crap?

Let's just move on now

[UncleSonny 6564]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Not really man.  I'm reading DD's link this weekend.  Black people now find this horrific- if someone gets caught doing it it's a career ender- the person is deemed a racist (deservedly so) all sorts of bad shit rains down on them. During the contemporary time would this be seen as a big deal?  Little deal? Not of importance? From the Brittanica link from GS it says blacks were composers, writers and sometimes performers, so some people made a living doing this. Would that have been a respectable living?  Making the best of a bad situation?

I'm not being obtuse- I like historical context especially when something exists that I've never heard before.  Hell, I listen to and buy all Dan Carlin's shit on hardcore history and his last series he's working on is Japan in WW2 and he starts it in the 1500's and it takes him a smooth 8 hours to get to the start of WW2 providing context, and I like that stuff.

This is something I'm a blank slate on and I'm asking people if they have answers. I've now been given 2 separate links that both look reputable and I'm going to read those and process them (the DD link was 10 pages long so not right now).  

I know how contemporary black people feel about it, and contemporary whites, but I don't know the historical context that this operated in.  That's what I'm asking for.  And in a public way.  I try to let context help be my guide to how I should feel about something and not judge everyone by today's standards and beliefs and knowledge.  

 

God help me, this "questions guy, just asking questions!" bit you do is very funny to me. 

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Was it introduced to campus at a minstrel show?

What if a black Longhorn says, "I know the lyrics aren't referring to a slave overseer, I do not want to sing a song introduced at a minstrel show or participate silently in its performance."?

That's actually a really good question.  Nothing has 100% acceptance in our society.  So, what's the line that we accept for universal acceptance and how do we accommodate those that don't fit into that percentage? Who do we cater to?  How big does the group have to be?  And what do we do and how do we react in those situations?  

I have no idea what the answer to any of those questions is. It is a discussion I'd be interested in seeing in instances like this.  

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So you agree that the minstrel show was a bad situation?

lol I want you to stop because you're embarrassing our university, but I want to see how deep you can dig yourself so please keep going.

Sure.  Because I'm asking for historical context on a subject that I've never done a deep dive and asking for information. That's embarrassing to you. Got it. 

[Apex73 313]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

Because it's clear a lot don't have any respect for the name on the jersey, traditions, or the players that came before them.  It's also reflected in the way they play.  

[bad_teammate 13145]

1 minute ago, Apex73 said:

Because it's clear a lot don't have any respect for the name on the jersey, traditions, or the players that came before them.

All because they don't want to sing The Eyes or be there while its sung? Seems like a wildly emotional piece of inaccurate logic on your part.

[Wulaw Horn 18985]

7 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

God help me, this "questions guy, just asking questions!" bit you do is very funny to me. 

It's sort of what open minded people who are intellectually curious do.  I've now got some weekend reading to do about a subject I've never given any consideration to.  Mock away. Name call. Whatever. I've thanked DD for giving me a link to historical work with his POV and GS I've thanked as well.  I guess for some it's a bit, or for bad_teammate I'm digging myself a hole but whatever. Glad I could provide you with some amusement, or a person to hate or whatever you get out of this on a Friday afternoon.  Hook 'Em. Enjoy your weekend. 

[David Dennison 18693]

3 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Because it's clear a lot don't have any respect for the name on the jersey, traditions, or the players that came before them.  It's also reflected in the way they play.  

Oh my God.

We're aggy.

[Armybrat 40755]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I don't think the song should be cancelled. I think it should be left to the students to decide whether they want to participate.

Same here, but they need to be educated about the history of the song and its meaning to all living Longhorns.

If the Longhorn Band refuses to play it, then cancel the band and let the Alumni Band replace it.

[bad_teammate 13145]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Same here, but they need to be educated about the history of the song and its meaning to all living Longhorns.

If the Longhorn Band refuses to play it, then cancel the band and let the Alumni Band replace it.

I think if we did an honest accounting, most living Longhorns don't care a whit about The Eyes.

[BurntOrange&White 39717]

21 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That's the problem.

Showing respect is a problem. Wow. 

[David Dennison 18693]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It's sort of what open minded people who are intellectually curious do.  I've now got some weekend reading to do about a subject I've never given any consideration to.  Mock away. Name call. Whatever. I've thanked DD for giving me a link to historical work with his POV and GS I've thanked as well.  I guess for some it's a bit, or for bad_teammate I'm digging myself a hole but whatever. Glad I could provide you with some amusement, or a person to hate or whatever you get out of this on a Friday afternoon.  Hook 'Em. Enjoy your weekend. 

There is an endless trove of resources on the history of race in America. If you really want to find stuff to read, look up the reading lists from syllabi of African American studies and American history departments around the country. 

Here are the texts for just one class at Texas, African America History since 1860:

Franklin, John H. and Evelyn Higginbotham,  From Slavery to Freedom, 9th ed, paper
Henry, Charles P, Allen, R , and Chrisma, R. The Obama Phenomenon: Toward a Multiracial Democracy
Holt Thomas and Barkley-Brown, E., Major Problems, African American History vol 2  
Rhoden, William C., Forty Million Dollar Slaves: The Rise, Fall,  Redemption of the Black Athlete
Smith-Shomade, Beretta,   Pimpin’ Ain’t Easy: Selling Black Entertainment Television
 

[Newy25 7638]

39 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I don't think the song should be cancelled. I think it should be left to the students to decide whether they want to participate.

And here, we both agree. Nothing should be forced on anyone to do. That’s not our country. But your choice is not free of consequence, either. That’s the flip side of our freedom.