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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

Goo Punch

By Goo Punch
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Deej
Deej

Considering it is sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad", shouldn't the Chinese students be the ones with the problem?

NorthLoop
NorthLoop

I'm a Trump hating liberal and hope the Republican party withers and dies before my children are of voting age.  That being said....  The song isn't racist. The bullshit 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon

crash_davis
crash_davis

I don't like some if the demands but I'm not a black athlete representing the University of Texas. I don't know what it's like to deal with the fucked up system that they've grown up under.  Fuck

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Apex73

Apex73 313

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

All because they don't want to sing The Eyes or be there while its sung? Seems like a wildly emotional piece of inaccurate logic on your part.

Because they don't want to stand on the field with the leader of their team after the game is over.  You don't understand how bad that looks.  Because they have threatened to quit over nonsense or not getting enough playing time, and because they have bowed up to former players saying that they need to play better.  They are a bunch of entitled pussies from what I can tell and anybody with eyes can see it.  

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UncleSonny

UncleSonny 6564

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It's sort of what open minded people who are intellectually curious do.  I've now got some weekend reading to do about a subject I've never given any consideration to.  Mock away. Name call. Whatever. I've thanked DD for giving me a link to historical work with his POV and GS I've thanked as well.  I guess for some it's a bit, or for bad_teammate I'm digging myself a hole but whatever. Glad I could provide you with some amusement, or a person to hate or whatever you get out of this on a Friday afternoon.  Hook 'Em. Enjoy your weekend. 

Kudos to your intellectual curiosity. I hope you find your weekend reading assignment enlightening and you come out with a lot of context and knowledge on the subject, sincerely. You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little skeptical about your actual motives when your initial question was:

14 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m curious about this too. I wasn’t alive 100 years ago. I assume it is probably racist but it could also be like a 1900 version of white kids rapping black songs, though I doubt that and find it unlikely. 

Nice of you to caveat that you assume minstrel shows are "probably" racist, but golly, without the proper personal historical knowledge you just can't be sure. This thread is a pretty strange place to try and crowd-source that information though. 

Truth is, I've seen you pull this quite a few times on the board now. You say something outrageous in the form of a question, people jump on you for it, and then you come back with, "whoa guys, I'm just asking questions about a subject I don't know a lot about! I don't have the proper context to have an opinion either way!". So yeah, when I see you do it yet again it makes me laugh. Have a good weekend.

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Lidig8r

Lidig8r 1862

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I don't think the song should be cancelled. I think it should be left to the students to decide whether they want to participate.

Brain development and the biology of the brain are fascinating studies. I have been doing a fairly deep dive into the biology of the brain as it impacts certain mental illnesses.

This article goes into the biology of the brain of adolescents and the manner it impacts decision making, being responsible for conduct, maturity and public policy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/

There is a lot of science on the brain and decision making. And the decision a 20 year old makes on an issue like this very well could be significantly different after they have had more life experience, when the brain has fully developed biologically, when they come to understand that the world around them is very different than the sheltered bubble of college life.

If a student chooses not to participate, that is fine for them. But, they also have to understand that that decision may have ramifications down the road... will alums be as likely to hire them? Especially if those alums are more conservative. Are they more likely to obtain employment with liberal think tanks if their decision not to participate is an outward manifestation of their mature moral and ethical views of society?

Participate, don't participate. Fine. But, know there are probably going to be consequences of such a choice. And if you do not like those consequences, you brought them on yourself.

Lecture over. Lid out.

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MirrOlure

MirrOlure 14643

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

There is a growing constituency of students, athletes, and alumni who no longer deem the Eyes of Texas worthy of the respect demanded by those who do.

That makes people uncomfortable.

Holy shit...we actually agree on something.  The number of supposedly educated people that are influenced by shallow analysis and giant conclusion jumping/logic leaping does in fact make people uncomfortable.

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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21784

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Because the playing of the Eyes of Texas and forcing players to show respect for fans while those fans sing the Eyes of Texas are two different things.

Exactly how is anyone being forced to do anything?  Some activities come with prerequisites or other requirements.  That's not the same as being forced to do something.

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TriStone

TriStone 1724

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Pasken said:

It's insane how all you Eyes ride or die peeps can't see this is going to blow up in your faces so hard. 

Or it might fade away like a fart in a rainstorm once the election season is over.

 

 

Edited by TriStone
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18985

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, UncleSonny said:

Kudos to your intellectual curiosity. I hope you find your weekend reading assignment enlightening and you come out with a lot of context and knowledge on the subject, sincerely. You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little skeptical about your actual motives when your initial question was:

Nice of you to caveat that you assume minstrel shows are "probably" racist, but golly, without the proper personal historical knowledge you just can't be sure. This thread is a pretty strange place to try and crowd-source that information though. 

Truth is, I've seen you pull this quite a few times on the board now. You say something outrageous in the form of a question, people jump on you for it, and then you come back with, "whoa guys, I'm just asking questions about a subject I don't know a lot about! I don't have the proper context to have an opinion either way!". So yeah, when I see you do it yet again it makes me laugh. Have a good weekend.

Sweet man. When I don't know the answer to something I ask a question.  When I have a suspicion about something or I want to cut through bullshit I ask that question a certain way to sort out bullshit.  I this case- literally the reason I was saying I suppose it's probably racist but I'm open to the idea that it might not be near as racist as modern people view it to be- that's throwing down the gauntlet of prove that the prevailing idea of racism isn't accurate- I'm open to the idea but I'm starting out from the point of a sceptic.  So- Randy made a run at that- cool. And David pushed back and said no. IOW- I'm literally starting from the position of- this seems pretty racist- is it.

One thing I've noticed (especially when it relates to shit I actually know a lot about- but this doesn't fall into) is that the more emotion there is around any particular issue the less likely there is a lot of logic or studied thought around said issue. It's why quality history is typically done generations removed from a person, event or era.  In a lot of ways we should be able to have an emotionally detached history from 200 years ago, but in some areas it's still a pain point issue.  Go back- say 500 years- and you don't see any serious passion one way or another. 

We all have our feelings and emotions. We all have our beliefs. We all have the ability to use logic.  Some mixture of all of this- along with personal history- outside belief systems etc., form our opinions on issues, situations and events.  I'm completely open to the idea of changing my opinion when introduced to new information.  But, the amount of information you would need to present me with is inversely proportional to the emotional investment I have in a subject.  I would suppose that most people fit into this category.  I would assume you have more emotional investment in this than I do (I think I remember you are black- if not- my apologies for getting that wrong) as I have almost no emotional attachment to this as I've never considered the idea of a minstrel show before the EOT controversy. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18985

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Pasken said:

It's insane how all you Eyes ride or die peeps can't see this is going to blow up in your faces so hard. 

What if we see that it will blow up in our faces over a period of time, and then we see that the university will lose something it once had that was cool and differentiated us from other schools, and that makes us a little sad? The anti EOT crowd has the hecklers veto on this issue I truly believe.  That can and will be used successfully here, probably to the detriment of most. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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General Specific

General Specific 3235

Posted
Posted
Oh my God.
We're aggy.

No, you’re an aggy. If you want blind faith followers, txag is —->>>>

Citing Civil Rights laws is nice. That part we all as Americans get. However it falls short of historical context in this form on this topic. It also lacks intellectual honesty and gains us nothing in the way of helping to understand the nuances involved. Which there a more than a few.

Repeating opinions is not advancing the ball here. Please provide support for your point if you have one. I, and others here, may have a void to fill in knowledge on the subject and do not respond well to “because I said so”.

With new information, we get to make new decisions (some of us anyway).
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18693

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sweet man. When I don't know the answer to something I ask a question.  When I have a suspicion about something or I want to cut through bullshit I ask that question a certain way to sort out bullshit.  I this case- literally the reason I was saying I suppose it's probably racist but I'm open to the idea that it might not be near as racist as modern people view it to be- that's throwing down the gauntlet of prove that the prevailing idea of racism isn't accurate- I'm open to the idea but I'm starting out from the point of a sceptic.  So- Randy made a run at that- cool. And David pushed back and said no. IOW- I'm literally starting from the position of- this seems pretty racist- is it.

One thing I've noticed (especially when it relates to shit I actually know a lot about- but this doesn't fall into) is that the more emotion there is around any particular issue the less likely there is a lot of logic or studied thought around said issue. It's why quality history is typically done generations removed from a person, event or era.  In a lot of ways we should be able to have an emotionally detached history from 200 years ago, but in some areas it's still a pain point issue.  Go back- say 500 years- and you don't see any serious passion one way or another. 

We all have our feelings and emotions. We all have our beliefs. We all have the ability to use logic.  Some mixture of all of this- along with personal history- outside belief systems etc., form our opinions on issues, situations and events.  I'm completely open to the idea of changing my opinion when introduced to new information.  But, the amount of information you would need to present me with is inversely proportional to the emotional investment I have in a subject.  I would suppose that most people fit into this category.  I would assume you have more emotional investment in this than I do (I think I remember you are black- if not- my apologies for getting that wrong) as I have almost no emotional attachment to this as I've never considered the idea of a minstrel show before the EOT controversy. 

I know, I know, Wikipedia, but if you scroll down you will find a whole bunch of resources on minstrelsy in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18693

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1 minute ago, General Specific said:


No, you’re an aggy. If you want blind faith followers, txag is —->>>>

Citing Civil Rights laws is nice. That part we all as Americans get. However it falls short of historical context in this form on this topic. It also lacks intellectual honesty and gains us nothing in the way of helping to understand the nuances involved. Which there a more than a few.

Repeating opinions is not advancing the ball here. Please provide support for your point if you have one. I, and others here, may have a void to fill in knowledge on the subject and do not respond well to “because I said so”.

With new information, we get to make new decisions (some of us anyway).

I have cited numerous books and articles and provided links to further references that you are choosing to ignore.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13145

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

One thing I've noticed (especially when it relates to shit I actually know a lot about- but this doesn't fall into) is that the more emotion there is around any particular issue the less likely there is a lot of logic or studied thought around said issue.

When you referred to minstrel shows as "a bad situation", what did you mean?

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UncleSonny

UncleSonny 6564

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I would assume you have more emotional investment in this than I do (I think I remember you are black- if not- my apologies for getting that wrong) as I have almost no emotional attachment to this as I've never considered the idea of a minstrel show before the EOT controversy. 

Fine, but even taking everything you are saying at face-value it is the height for privilege and/or naivety to have grown up/been educated in Texas and never had to consider the idea of a minstrel show one way or the other. 

For the sake of clarity, no I'm not black.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18985

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Posted
Just now, UncleSonny said:

Fine, but even taking everything you are saying at face-value it is the height for privilege and/or naivety to have grown up/been educated in Texas and never had to consider the idea of a minstrel show one way or the other. 

For the sake of clarity, no I'm not black.

I didn't move here until later in life. My formative life was not being raised in the confederacy.  There weren't any black people (to speak of) where I came from in Napa, California in the 1980's. It was Hispanics that were our minority group so most of our "how do other people feel about  this" was dealt with through that lens. No nuance or real talk about confederate times. Lots of talk about Mexico and cultural outreach that way. 

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Bobby_Batronic

Bobby_Batronic 1994

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That gives you about a 6 to 12 month respite until the mid-terms and the Texas gubernatorial election.

It's always election season on TV.

Please. 85%+ of the population will look at the letter after the name and pull the handle. The world is imploding, mountain out of molehill BS will largely be shelved for 3 more years lest the waterheaded, undecided target audience get tired of the white noise too soon. 

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utee94

utee94 15746

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

Wonder how long it will take for some A-hole to demand that everyone stop singing "Texas Fight" just because fight is a bad word?

In the second verse of Texas Fight, some of the LHB sections play a shortened version of the melody of The Eyes of Texas, as a counter melody, for the first 8 bars.  So it's already on the hit list.

 

 

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HRSchenker

HRSchenker 2259

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Never. I like America and it was founded by slave owners and slave apologists. I like tacos and I don't check the beef to make sure it was cruelty free. Life is about difficult moral choices and moral ambiguity and the ability to navigate those waters without being a big whining bitch who cries about teenagers online so that other big whining bitches like them.

Let me make sure I understand this. You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes. The claim is that the song is rooted in racism. You've sung the song in public many times. When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

That is exactly why the football players, students, and alums who are asking the university to get rid of the song or replace it cannot and should not be taken seriously.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 39717

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Let me make sure I understand this. You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes. The claim is that the song is rooted in racism. You've sung the song in public many times. When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

That is exactly why the football players, students, and alums who are asking the university to get rid of the song or replace it cannot and should not be taken seriously.

mike tyson boom GIF

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13145

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes.

No, I don't think The Eyes is offensive.

Quote

The claim is that the song is rooted in racism.

I have no idea what "rooted in racism" means.

I think the song itself is not racist. The fact that it was introduced at a minstrel show doesn't matter to me at all. I think it has a meaning and purpose entirely distinct from its racist introduction. Not "rooted" at all because The Eyes, in my expression and experience, isn't connected at all to that past.

Quote

When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

You guys should deal with the arguments people make instead of the ones you wish they would make.

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Newy25

Newy25 7638

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

mike tyson boom GIF

He honestly has argued his way in and  out of every side of this issue claiming the song is not racist, is racist, while also supporting the song and saying it’s divisive and we are all acting like victims. It’s pretty awesome watching someone so mentally deficit get twisted up like a pretzel. 

Edited by Newy25
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