Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Fletch 5817]

38 minutes ago, D3zii said:

Lol really?? Y’all are missing out if some of y’all’s coolest moments in a rich Texas sports history was singing a song...ijs 

It’s more the cherry on top of the many awesome victories we’ve had. 

[mchookem 16728]

how did aggy manage to keep an actual shrine to a literal, documented, racist confederate general and killer of blacks that was protected for weeks/months by the actual physical presence of their rich old white alumni...and somehow their student athletes and recruits handled it and they didn't end up featured in the Texas Tribune or the nightly news repeatedly over it?

is it just lower expectations for them?? i mean wtf 🙄

[Machinator 32102]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

how did aggy manage to keep an actual shrine to a literal, documented, racist confederate general and killer of blacks that was protected for weeks/months by the actual physical presence of their rich old white alumni...and somehow their student athletes and recruits handled it and they didn't end up featured in the Texas Tribune or the nightly news repeatedly over it?

is it just lower expectations for them?? i mean wtf 🙄

There was a lot of discontent over some of the football players' opinions and protests. Then their football team won 10 games and finished in the top 5 of the AP Poll and it all went away.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

28 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Funny how when talking about America we don't also incorporate Pluto in the discussion. 

I'm sorry, I thought the subject was racism, not "America."

How granular are you ok with when it comes to when being accepting of racism? Better yet, how is it that you are indifferent to racism in any form?

Show me racism on Pluto and I will say it is wrong. Show me racism outside America and I will say it is wrong. Show me racism inside America and I will say its wrong.

I don't see EOT as being racist.

I see this whole controversy as an exercise of re-examining the past through a lens of modern culture, not accounting for the distortions of that lens.

Our national anthem was set to the tune of a somewhat bawdy drinking song of an English gentlemen's club circa 1775. If I choose to sing the original words to the original tune, am I being anti-American because I'm desecrating our sacred national anthem?

No.

I don't see EOT as having deep racist overtones in the 1920s or today. Nor do I find Black men wearing white face celebrating minstrel culture today as having deeply racist overtones. Based upon the cultural context.

I encourage those who do see a racist connection to EOT to travel to this year's Minstrel Carnival in Cape Town in June to learn more about cultural context.

Cultures change. I don't believe any racist overtones or undertones connected with EOT today. I'm open to discussing the subject. I hope the commission's report helps advance the discussion.

We will see.

 

[westexhorn 2157]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

There was a lot of discontent over some of the football players' opinions and protests. Then their football team won 10 games and finished in the top 5 of the AP Poll and it all went away.

Winning solves everything lol

[mchookem 16728]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

There was a lot of discontent over some of the football players' opinions and protests. Then their football team won 10 games and finished in the top 5 of the AP Poll and it all went away.

 

[babysdaddy 2731]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Like the Washington Football Team story with their former name and logo, this will be a recurring issue until the song is shelved by the university.

[Machinator 32102]

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

17 minutes ago, mchookem said:

how did aggy manage to keep an actual shrine to a literal, documented, racist confederate general and killer of blacks that was protected for weeks/months by the actual physical presence of their rich old white alumni...and somehow their student athletes and recruits handled it and they didn't end up featured in the Texas Tribune or the nightly news repeatedly over it?

is it just lower expectations for them?? i mean wtf 🙄

Because they just said no.  No is a complete fucking sentence.

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

43 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Not sure why this is so hard. Let those that want to sing the song, sing the song, and whoever doesn’t want to sing it shouldn’t have to and nobody should care about the other persons decision. Why this wasn’t the compromise from the beginning I have no idea. Fuck this stupid as song shit.

One of the major points of inflamed feelings during this entire controversy was when a bunch of players decided that they didn't want to sing while a single player did. So I'm not sure you're taking into consideration the actuality that this compromise was in fact made and then ignored from the very beginning.

As a black person who doesn't find the EOT racist and doesn't consider the fact that it originated at a minstrel show a disqualifying fact, there was a way to approach this from the beginning to highlight this angle of defense. Unfortunately too many people have obscured this legitimate defense with actual racist responses which causes even a person like me, who is inclined to be an ally, to say fuck these racist mutherfuckers. This thread alone is rife with numerous notions to blacks being lucky to even be a part of the university and other thoughts of the same bent. When people start to resort to racism to defend something that isn't racist, well then you lose the battle before it even begins, regardless of the facts at hand.  

Edited March 2, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3462]

dp

Edited March 2, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Randolph Duke 4034]

5 minutes ago, mchookem said:

how did aggy manage to keep an actual shrine to a literal, documented, racist confederate general and killer of blacks that was protected for weeks/months by the actual physical presence of their rich old white alumni...and somehow their student athletes and recruits handled it and they didn't end up featured in the Texas Tribune or the nightly news repeatedly over it?

is it just lower expectations for them?? i mean wtf 🙄

Yes.

UT has always been held to a higher standard than A&M simply because UT is "of, by, and for the people of Texas" and TAMU has always been just "A&M." (A&M was a federal construct and a vestige of the 1870s Reconstruction "occupation" government of Texas. Not being "of, by, and for the people of Texas" is the exact reason Texas A&M was looked down upon by Texans in 1876. They have never been able to wash off that stench.)

"From the earliest times" state's namesake university has been "the cherished design of the people of the republic and the state of Texas."

It's the other edge of the sword.

There are Aggies, and then there are aggys. The Aggies are the "2%ers" who represent intelligent thought and actually contribute to the betterment of Texas.

aggys go to A&M for a racist, redneck cultural indoctrination. And to try to learn farming. And to play Army.

The racist aggy faction in Texas is alive and well, as evidenced by the shrine to white supremacy at the center of the A&M campus. Remember that during King Gill's time at A&M they were promoting local Klan rallies over the PA system during home football games. After Brown v Board they held a campus referendum to assert they would never abide by the decision. The racist roots of A&M run very deep. Jefferson Davis, Sul Ross, King Gill, John Sharp. The list of racist pieces of shit within the aggy culture is long. Today it numbers over 500,000.

A&M exists to represent the racist element in the state and in the state legislature. And to perpetuate racism in Texas.

UT has always been held to a higher standard. Fighting racism at UT leads to change at least somewhere in Texas. Fighting racism within the culture of Texas A&M is a losing battle. aggys will never reform. "Tradition" at A&M is just aggy code for what we call racism.

It's just the way it is.

And always will be.

[CowboyFred 1162]

 

[BrazilHorn 6792]

To me being hidebound to tradition can be a dangerous thing.

At one time the tradition for football teams was two a days in the heat of the summer with little to no breaks for water. If someone asked for water or to rest they were labeled a "pussy".

At one time traditional tackling methods including the clothes line where a player could effectively be tackled by an arm to their throat, a traditional swim move on the DL involved hitting the OL in the helmet to gain advantage. Hitting defenseless players was allowed via crackback blocks and there was an entire genre of VHS tapes dedicated to "vicious hits" that today would all be illegal.

At one time the tradition was to field only white players.

etc etc etc

All these traditions have been updated over the years as better information or changing societal views emerged. Being the "get off my lawn" person in the face of this criticism seems like misplaced energy.

Find a new tradition.

 

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

2 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

 

I mean, I do. lol

[LTtxfan 49909]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Report from UT will be released next week per Quan Cosby who said he was on the Committee researching the history and discussing this issue.  He stated that the Committee was a diversified group of folks from various backgrounds to gather several different perspective.  (Quan was on HornFM this morning. I'll try to add playback when available.)

FWIW... Quan has been a supporter of keeping EOT

Link to today's Quan Cosby radio interview as promised.

https://hornfm.com/2021/03/02/quan-cosby-on-eyes-of-texas-be/ 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by LTtxfan
typo

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

I honestly don’t care about the song or whether anyone sings it. 
 

Donors talk a big game when we lose to TCU and Baylor, but if we were in the CFP those seats would be filled. 

[GringoSalado 1652]

 

2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Get rid of the fucking song already

Ballgame?

[Hornin' In 15]

19 hours ago, RollLeft said:

Disgusting.  I hope nature runs its course on these types of people, sooner rather than later.   

You clearly don't travel much. Racism in the U.S. exists, but it small potatoes compared to most of the world.

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

Just now, Hornin' In said:

You clearly don't travel much. Racism in the U.S. exists, but it small potatoes compared to most of the world.

I don't know if it's ironic or unironic but Asians are amongst the most racist people I've encountered in the world.

[GringoSalado 1652]

56 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This thread alone is rife with numerous notions to blacks being lucky to even be a part of the university and other thoughts of the same bent. When people start to resort to racism to defend something that isn't racist, well then you lose the battle before it even begins, regardless of the facts at hand.  

Damn

[Murfdogg21 4548]

Based on how different regions vote, I made assumptions about their views and beliefs. The first few times I visited the northeast US, I was knocked back by what people said in bars with a couple drinks in them. Not little jabbing between friends of different races that I grew up with, but full blown racism. Then I spent time in Europe, then the Middle East. LOL I was at a point where I questioned if Texas was the least racist place in the world overall in terms of the vast majority of people respecting and (trying to) understand other races and cultures within the state (the 5% of mostly east Texans, not withstanding).

[Hookem2147 21930]

Sark liking Overshown’s tweet 

[Hookem2147 21930]

Regardless of your opinion of the issue, it needs to be fixed by the admin/university or else it is going to start affecting our ability to attract and retain talent. If Sark goes out and wins 10 games this year with this issue continuing to linger and the NFL comes calling he may not want to put up with this nonsense anymore. This issue should have resolved months ago. Embarrassing for the university and its fan base that it’s dragged on.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Hookem2147

[Scholz 12301]

So no more gas?  

Sark, you're the Texas coach now.  

[BurntOrange&White 41649]

3 minutes ago, Scholz said:

So no more gas?  

Sark, you're the Texas coach now.  

Nope, gas is bad for the environment.

 

All Battery, No Brakes!

[DigglerontheHoof 21516]

Well, fuck it, get rid of orange and white (white is racist), the Longhorn (cows are major cause of global warming) and Texas Fight (we should learn to live together not fight other schools), as well.

We can all sit around in muted colors and sing Kumbaya...it'll be great. 

 

[GTX Horn 1725]

I don’t think the song itself is racist but at this point I feel like the writing is on the wall and it’s only a matter of time before it’s removed. I don’t necessarily agree with it being removed but I don’t see any of this dying down until it’s gone. Just my 2 cents.

[hayden_horn 11401]

reading the last couple days' worth of posts on this thread has been disappointing, but sadly unsurprising. 

there are many disparate issues at play here. 

1) the eyes. i love the eyes of texas. i grew up singing it. i've sung it after many games, at graduations, at weddings, at funerals. it has some real gravitas in my life. but it doesn't define me or my school. it is a song. i didn't know that it had some racist roots. and that's okay. i can't know what i don't know. however, now, i know, and i know it bothers people, specifically the black players on our football team, who are also students at the university i once attended. and that's what matters. those students on campus - that's who the university is there to serve. and, at the end of the day, however good i may feel singing the eyes has to be tempered by the fact that it is offensive to a large part of the team. 

2) these new emails. these emails are outrageous. they are racist, they are full of entitlement, and they are a further indicator that texas athletics is kind of a ship of fools steered by alumni with checkbooks. but beyond that, they are a further indicator that we have a racist problem. "the blacks?!?!" who talks like that, much less puts it in writing to a public official? shit, my old racist dad always told me "always get it in writing, but never put it in writing if you can get away with it." but beyond that is the naked racism and old south mentality that black football players should just be grateful that they have the privilege of wearing burnt orange, instead of us being grateful that they are willing to do so. 

which brings me to 3) the players. 

there's this idea that i put in my last bullet point that they have the privilege of wearing our colors. that's not really the case. there's a reason our recruiting forum is so busy, and it has to do with our getting good players to field a competitive program. that actually means catering to them, the coaches appealing to them, selling them on the idea of coming here. then, and this is more critical now than ever before, convincing them to fucking stay here. they have realized that they have power and agency. and, frankly, that's a good thing. it's obscene, in a way, how much money our athletic department rakes in, and i say that as a season ticket holder in non covid years. spare me the "but they have access to a world class education" bullshit argument. that may be the case for the golf or tennis team, but football players come here to play football. that's all that is frankly expected of them, and the hypocrisy of that argument versus the standards for admittance is galling and hilarious at the same time. but, let's take that argument: these are students at the university, and they think things should be different. that's change, an that's how change happens on campus. it's their university, not mine any longer. i proudly have a degree from texas, but it isn't about me. it's about them. 

that's what so many miss about these issues. we feel a sense of ownership because we have one or two or three pieces of paper on our wall from there. we love our traditions. but they don't. and they are the ones going to class, going to practice, and playing on saturdays. it's their program, not ours, no matter how much money we spend on it. aside from the racism, the fucking entitlement in those emails is also appalling. 

[Augustus 3061]

We've been telling you for 100 years that it sounds like hell.

[LTtxfan 49909]

Racism and freedoms are the bigger issues here.

• If you keep EOT, some are hurt
• If you get rid of EOT, others are hurt

So in the end, unless there is compromise someone gets hurt.  Funny to me how some folks on here only want their way and make fun of and belittle the ones on the other side for their wishes and beliefs.

That's not Unifying...

Hope we all start listening better to each other and find more common ground.  Gather the facts, and hopefully find a result that includes compromises that honors both sides... 

 

[GringoSalado 1652]

Did somebody really tell him that players "have to sing to play?" 

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

2) these new emails. these emails are outrageous. they are racist, they are full of entitlement, and they are a further indicator that texas athletics is kind of a ship of fools steered by alumni with checkbooks. but beyond that, they are a further indicator that we have a racist problem.

 

 

The number of racist alums (about 150 or so that we know of today?) is never going to be zero. Never.

Do you think we can we handle that?

[hayden_horn 11401]

1 minute ago, GringoSalado said:

Did somebody really tell him that players "have to sing to play?" 

 

The number of racist alums (about 150 or so that we know of today?) is never going to be zero. Never.

Do you think we can we handle that?

we should fucking repudiate it is what we should do. start with the guy talking about "the blacks." tell him to get fucked, we don't need your racist money.

[GringoSalado 1652]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

we should fucking repudiate it is what we should do. start with the guy talking about "the blacks." tell him to get fucked, we don't need your racist money.

?

 

We're not doing that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fuck that guy, just in case you didn't mark me down.

[Scholz 12301]

3 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Fuck that guy, just in case you didn't mark me down.

[UncleSonny 6790]

6 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

The number of racist alums (about 150 or so that we know of today?) is never going to be zero. Never.

Do you think we can we handle that?

Yeah every school is always going to have racist alums, vocal and otherwise. We can't give those alums outsized influence/voice in the school just based in their annual donation numbers though. 

Or, in one of those racist's own parlance, lets not let the tail wag the dog.

[hayden_horn 11401]

9 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

?

 

We're not doing that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fuck that guy, just in case you didn't mark me down.

Quote

"It's time for you to put the foot down and make it perfectly clear that the heritage of Texas will not be lost," wrote another donor who graduated in 1986. Their name was also redacted by UT-Austin. "It is sad that it is offending the blacks. As I said before the blacks are free and it's time for them to move on to another state where everything is in their favor."

sure looks like we are protecting them by redacting their names.

[GringoSalado 1652]

Listening to Quan, sort of saying that Overshown mainly doesn't want to be told what to think about the song, and was surprised and hurt by backlash from his tweet or whatever. Quan said he didn't find song racist, but doesn't really say if his opinion has changed (after serving on the committee). I guess reading between the lines I'd say his opinion changed, but right now he isn't saying it is racist in his opinion. He's trying to stay safe w/ both sides.

 

Bucky kind of saying racist letter writers aren't going away anytime soon and are probably pretty happy with the amount of shit they are able to stir up.

 

Quan's made a point was that weren't letter writers trying to cancel the players, cancel culture.

 

Also reiterates that you can't tell somebody how to feel, so if players think it is racist then that is that, I guess, and agree to disagree.

 

Then he says a lot of minority testimony to the committee in favor of keeping song, overall sounds like the committee was a productive and informative one.

 

Closes by comparing opinion to fact, saying that 2005 game was best NC game ever in his opinion, but of course that is fact and not a matter of opinion, but that is the only fault I find.

Edited March 2, 2021 by GringoSalado

[GringoSalado 1652]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

sure looks like we are protecting them by redacting their names.

Lawyers

[GTX Horn 1725]

I’d be curious to see a poll of what current students’ opinion on the song is.

[Machinator 32102]

[GTX Horn 1725]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Dude, you need to charge your phone

[Johnny Sack 8397]

37 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

reading the last couple days' worth of posts on this thread has been disappointing, but sadly unsurprising. 

there are many disparate issues at play here. 

1) the eyes. i love the eyes of texas. i grew up singing it. i've sung it after many games, at graduations, at weddings, at funerals. it has some real gravitas in my life. but it doesn't define me or my school. it is a song. i didn't know that it had some racist roots. and that's okay. i can't know what i don't know. however, now, i know, and i know it bothers people, specifically the black players on our football team, who are also students at the university i once attended. and that's what matters. those students on campus - that's who the university is there to serve. and, at the end of the day, however good i may feel singing the eyes has to be tempered by the fact that it is offensive to a large part of the team. 

2) these new emails. these emails are outrageous. they are racist, they are full of entitlement, and they are a further indicator that texas athletics is kind of a ship of fools steered by alumni with checkbooks. but beyond that, they are a further indicator that we have a racist problem. "the blacks?!?!" who talks like that, much less puts it in writing to a public official? shit, my old racist dad always told me "always get it in writing, but never put it in writing if you can get away with it." but beyond that is the naked racism and old south mentality that black football players should just be grateful that they have the privilege of wearing burnt orange, instead of us being grateful that they are willing to do so. 

which brings me to 3) the players. 

there's this idea that i put in my last bullet point that they have the privilege of wearing our colors. that's not really the case. there's a reason our recruiting forum is so busy, and it has to do with our getting good players to field a competitive program. that actually means catering to them, the coaches appealing to them, selling them on the idea of coming here. then, and this is more critical now than ever before, convincing them to fucking stay here. they have realized that they have power and agency. and, frankly, that's a good thing. it's obscene, in a way, how much money our athletic department rakes in, and i say that as a season ticket holder in non covid years. spare me the "but they have access to a world class education" bullshit argument. that may be the case for the golf or tennis team, but football players come here to play football. that's all that is frankly expected of them, and the hypocrisy of that argument versus the standards for admittance is galling and hilarious at the same time. but, let's take that argument: these are students at the university, and they think things should be different. that's change, an that's how change happens on campus. it's their university, not mine any longer. i proudly have a degree from texas, but it isn't about me. it's about them. 

that's what so many miss about these issues. we feel a sense of ownership because we have one or two or three pieces of paper on our wall from there. we love our traditions. but they don't. and they are the ones going to class, going to practice, and playing on saturdays. it's their program, not ours, no matter how much money we spend on it. aside from the racism, the fucking entitlement in those emails is also appalling. 

Point 4 - the current batch of players can't beat bad TCU teams and should win something before demanding changes. If this was the VY or Colt teams, I would be more inclined to listen. These fuckers are replacement level.

[Machinator 32102]

8 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

Dude, you need to charge your phone

Not my picture

Edited March 2, 2021 by Machinator

[TreatyOak 17195]

55 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Based on how different regions vote, I made assumptions about their views and beliefs. The first few times I visited the northeast US, I was knocked back by what people said in bars with a couple drinks in them. Not little jabbing between friends of different races that I grew up with, but full blown racism. Then I spent time in Europe, then the Middle East. LOL I was at a point where I questioned if Texas was the least racist place in the world overall in terms of the vast majority of people respecting and (trying to) understand other races and cultures within the state (the 5% of mostly east Texans, not withstanding).

I lived in the northeast and have traveled quite a bit and seen those same racist issues across the world. However, I feel like the events of this last year has expanded my understanding of how deep the racist issues in our country are. If anything, they seem to be getting worse. While I like the song, it's become too divisive, which is ridiculous, since we have much bigger racial injustice issues worth tackling. Still, if it helps brings people together, I'm all for losing the song. Time to move on.

Last point: anyone notice that the most extreme cancel culture morons and the "change our racist traditions over my dead body" types are really more alike than they are different? 

Hook 'em!

[Restinmybones 111]

4 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

I lived in the northeast and have traveled quite a bit and seen those same racist issues across the world. However, I feel like the events of this last year has expanded my understanding of how deep the racist issues in our country are. If anything, they seem to be getting worse. While I like the song, it's become too divisive, which is ridiculous, since we have much bigger racial injustice issues worth tackling. Still, if it helps brings people together, I'm all for losing the song. Time to move on.

Last point: anyone notice that the most extreme cancel culture morons and the "change our racist traditions over my dead body" types are really more alike than they are different? 

Hook 'em!

Check this out.... We might be going insane as a country.... Many around the world say we've been nuts for quite some time but people are scared to tell us because we have lots of money - relatively speaking - and bases everywhere. Anyway, some Dr. Seuss books have "fallen out of favor"...

Banned Dr. Seuss Books Already Selling For Hundreds Of Dollars On Ebay | ZeroHedge

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Had Enough 2108]

?
 
We're not doing that?
 
 
 
 
 
 
Fuck that guy, just in case you didn't mark me down.

You know a good way to keep racism alive? Shut out and condemn those who have such feelings. Maybe there is or is not a redemptive story in there. But you'll never find out if no chance is provided.

But I don't have a plan so screw em. Let whatever hatred they may have grow greater by being isolated and feeling their opinions and feelings don't matter.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13707]

11 minutes ago, Restinmybones said:

Check this out.... We might be going insane as a country.... Many around the world say we've been nuts for quite some time but people are scared to tell us because we have lots of money - relatively speaking - and bases everywhere. Anyway, some Dr. Seuss books have "fallen out of favor"...

Banned Dr. Seuss Books Already Selling For Hundreds Of Dollars On Ebay | ZeroHedge

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

The Dr. Seuss issue is that some of his books, had some questionable content. And the company that owns the rights to book's decided to self-censor. Similar to how Disney refuses to release or show Song of the South in the US.

[Newy25 7894]

23 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

I lived in the northeast and have traveled quite a bit and seen those same racist issues across the world. However, I feel like the events of this last year has expanded my understanding of how deep the racist issues in our country are. If anything, they seem to be getting worse. While I like the song, it's become too divisive, which is ridiculous, since we have much bigger racial injustice issues worth tackling. Still, if it helps brings people together, I'm all for losing the song. Time to move on.

Last point: anyone notice that the most extreme cancel culture morons and the "change our racist traditions over my dead body" types are really more alike than they are different? 

Hook 'em!

Losing the song isn’t bringing anyone together. That’s the point. If your stated objective is to live in a more racially tolerant world you need to change people’s minds and hearts. The cancelling of anything that someone might find offensive does nothing to further that objective.  

[General Specific 3484]

Well, fuck it, get rid of orange and white (white is racist), the Longhorn (cows are major cause of global warming) and Texas Fight (we should learn to live together not fight other schools), as well.
We can all sit around in muted colors and sing Kumbaya...it'll be great. 
 

Next you will be telling us that whom ever is admitted will auto pass their classes so as not to offend anyone with a less than stellar A+ in any subject! And we will admit all students too.