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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

Goo Punch

By Goo Punch
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Deej
Deej

Considering it is sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad", shouldn't the Chinese students be the ones with the problem?

NorthLoop
NorthLoop

I'm a Trump hating liberal and hope the Republican party withers and dies before my children are of voting age.  That being said....  The song isn't racist. The bullshit 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon

crash_davis
crash_davis

I don't like some if the demands but I'm not a black athlete representing the University of Texas. I don't know what it's like to deal with the fucked up system that they've grown up under.  Fuck

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PassiveAggressiveCoach

PassiveAggressiveCoach 118

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You might not like it, but it is apt.

it isn't the issue is different and the dynamics are different. One has a pretty clearly racist logo and name. the other has a song you have to make some pretty big jumps to imply it's racist and really all anyone has is it was played at a minstrel show. 

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Js1

Js1 86941

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, randygilman said:

While we're figuring out the whole Eyes issue, did we ever discover if the Tower is a phallic representation o the patriarchy? I thought that was one of the accusations in that video that made the rounds.

Depends, are those balls still there on the east side of the Tower?  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

it isn't the issue is different and the dynamics are different. One has a pretty clearly racist logo and name. the other has a song you have to make some pretty big jumps to imply it's racist and really all anyone has is it was played at a minstrel show. 

Look at where the EOT issue is right now compared to ten years ago and tell me honestly which way you think this is headed in the future.

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GringoSalado

GringoSalado 1652

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, randygilman said:

While we're figuring out the whole Eyes issue, did we ever discover if the Tower is a phallic representation o the patriarchy? I thought that was one of the accusations in that video that made the rounds.

You have to walk before you can run comrade.

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mchookem

mchookem 16728

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

They clearly were and honesty that’s where this was all headed. The reason this thread exploded the last few days wasn’t because of the woke mob or cancel culture or anyone’s other favorite hobby horse. It was the racist emails from donors that were published. 

The players haven’t said shit about the eyes  since after OU and they all stayed on the field since then. Sark said the song would remain from day 1 and got no public pushback from the team. This thing could have been dying down and handled internally if not for racists being unable to keep their racism to themselves. 
 

 

yep. i'd bet even the most agitated of players will lose even more interest if/when they are basking in the glow of stomping OU, winning the Big12, etc. it takes effort to be outraged.

the racist BMDs can get fucked. their emails did way more damage than either the song or the objections to it. 

ETA: to clarify and agree with below...the racist emails likely didn't actually come from BMDs but from other alumni. 

Edited by mchookem
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YChang

YChang 3531

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Again, intent is irrelevant.

I kinda sorta admire your conviction and black/white approach to this. But I don't think it's the way to approach nuanced/complicated topics. This song has meaning to me as a 1st gen immigrant independent of its history. I mean... meaning and intent of "things" changes over time. I dunno just rambling here...

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5675

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Comparing something that has a tenuous connection to racism to a team name that was straight up a beyond the pale racial slur is ridiculous.

Nationally, Eyes has been smeared and it will be an upheld battle to retain it as a tradition. The comp was in reply to the idea that Eyes will stay no matter what. Not that it was exact same situation.

Bottom-line: if its a no go with students and spirit groups and athletes, it will fade away. Or become really awkward. Awkward is not good for anyone.

Also, our racist underbelly was exposed in the bigwig emails. That’s gonna leave a mark.
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Slacks

Slacks 7025

Posted
Posted
On 3/2/2021 at 6:44 AM, Restinmybones said:

If it comes down to falsifying history and giving in to their every little spoiled whine and moan, I don't think a lot of us have any fucks left to give... or any money or time. It can dry up and blow away.

So... just get rid of the song, since it's no big deal. Right? No fucks given about a song. It's a song.

 

All that whining and moaning about a song... at a football game.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

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Posted
1 minute ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

it is if you're offended by something not based on reality. there is a difference. just because someone is offended by something doesn't mean we have to view what they're offended by as offensive. 

The connection to Lee is real even if he never said those words.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49909

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

The song isn't going to be dropped.   Not going to happen. 

Bank on that.   Almost literally. 

 

“The pride and winning tradition of the University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid.” 🤘 

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GTX Horn

GTX Horn 1725

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Nationally, Eyes has been smeared and it will be an upheld battle to retain it as a tradition. The comp was in reply to the idea that Eyes will stay no matter what. Not that it was exact same situation.

Bottom-line: if its a no go with students and spirit groups and athletes, it will fade away. Or become really awkward. Awkward is not good for anyone.

Also, our racist underbelly was exposed in the bigwig emails. That’s gonna leave a mark.

That’s why I believe the biggest issue here and the main reason we are here in the first place is because not only did the University fail to control the narrative, they hardly even tried. They may very well try to reclaim it now after the coming report but after 6+ months, they allowed the controversy to fester and metastasis to the point that it’ll be hard to reverse course at this point.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46976

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

Also, our racist underbelly was exposed in the bigwig emails. That’s gonna leave a mark.

It's Texas.  Our "racist underbelly" has been exposed for decades.  Heman Sweatt took his case to the US Supreme Court and won -- in 1950.  As a result, Black graduate students were admitted that year.  Our first Black undergrad enrolled in 1956.  Our first Black athlete started competing in 1965.  Julius Whittier became the first Black student to join the football team -- in 1970.

We don't hold the high road.  Still, we need to act on fact, not unsubstantiated accusations.  It's one thing to pull down a statue of Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis.  We know what those men stood for, and statues on our campus honoring them were unacceptable, and should have been removed decades prior.  I think it's pretty clear that EOT is not in that league, and indeed, could be completely innocuous in intent and execution.

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PassiveAggressiveCoach

PassiveAggressiveCoach 118

Posted
Posted

 

Just now, GTX Horn said:

That’s why I believe the biggest issue here and the main reason we are here in the first place is because not only did the University fail to control the narrative, they hardly even tried. They may very well try to reclaim it now after the coming report but after 6+ months, they allowed the controversy to fester and metastasis to the point that it’ll be hard to reverse course at this point.

this is true. they should've been all over this and most universities would. it has been very odd. leadership is either totally incompetent or there is an agenda. i also don't believe it's too late.  people said that earlier and it went away. if they can get a strong marketing effort pushed by former legendary players young and old to educate students and athletes on the song and what it means to them and it's true history then this can still go away like before. there is very little support for this by former athletes or alumni so that's why i believe it can be "fixed".

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

Posted
Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

It's Texas.  Our "racist underbelly" has been exposed for decades.  Heman Sweatt took his case to the US Supreme Court and won -- in 1950.  As a result, Black graduate students were admitted that year.  Our first Black undergrad enrolled in 1956.  Our first Black athlete started competing in 1965.  Julius Whittier became the first Black student to join the football team -- in 1970.

We don't hold the high road.  Still, we need to act on fact, not unsubstantiated accusations.  It's one thing to pull down a statue of Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis.  We know what those men stood for, and statues on our campus honoring them were unacceptable, and should have been removed decades prior.  I think it's pretty clear that EOT is not in that league, and indeed, could be completely innocuous in intend and execution.

That depends entirely on one's point of view. What is completely innocuous to some is the exact opposite to others.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46976

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Just now, David Dennison said:

That depends entirely on one's point of view. What is completely innocuous to some is the exact opposite to others.

No, not necessarily.  If we had evidence that the intent of the song was a jab at Prather for blathering on and on about how the state of Texas is looking to UT students to thrive and lead, then that would put a bow on it.  I can't help it when people with an agenda ignore clear evidence. 

Do we have that evidence?  No idea.  I'll wait for the report.  It will likely be inconclusive, but I'll read it nonetheless.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

No, not necessarily.  If we had evidence that the intent of the song was a jab at Prather for blathering on and on about how the state of Texas is looking to UT students to thrive and lead, then that would put a bow on it.  I can't help it when people with an agenda ignore clear evidence. 

Do we have that evidence?  No idea.  I'll wait for the report.  It will likely be inconclusive, but I'll read it nonetheless.

The song is connected to Lee through Prather. It is connected to black face through minstrel shows.

The genie is not going back in the bottle.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46976

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

The song is connected to Lee through Prather. It is connected to black face through minstrel shows.

The genie is not going back in the bottle.

God, you are a beating.  Prather's intent matters.  The songwriter's intent matters.  What other songs were sung in blackface at those minstrel shows?  Do we even know if EOT was introduced in blackface?

You are just being petulant at this point.  I'm pretty much done.  You are a perfect example of why it is so fucking frustrating to identify as a progressive/liberal in modern America.  Facts don't matter, feelings matter, and the most offended wins.  Fuck.  That.

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GTX Horn

GTX Horn 1725

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2 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

 

this is true. they should've been all over this and most universities would. it has been very odd. leadership is either totally incompetent or there is an agenda. i also don't believe it's too late.  people said that earlier and it went away. if they can get a strong marketing effort pushed by former legendary players young and old to educate students and athletes on the song and what it means to them and it's true history then this can still go away like before. there is very little support for this by former athletes or alumni so that's why i believe it can be "fixed".

 

I don’t know that it’s too late either, but it’s certainly become increasingly difficult by the university’s inexplicable lack leadership on the issue over the last 6 months. I think a major issue now is that probably a majority of the student body is now convinced it’s inherently racist and now incoming students will think so too because that’s the prevailing notion on social media, accurate or not. The challenge in marketing now is a lot of students frankly don’t care about athletics so their opinions won’t be swayed by Legendary Longhorn athletes and they’ll simply dismiss other attempts. Their minds are made up and it’s hard to reverse course. Not saying it can’t be done but it’s definitely a steep uphill climb.

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Ghost of Shag

Ghost of Shag 2723

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Posted

The reason Snyder and the Redskins finally dropped the name was because corporate sponsors threatened to drop them if they didn’t.

You have the exact opposite working here, where the donors are saying, “If you do drop the song, we’re out.”

As always, money talks. And the WFT would still be the Redskins if the big swinging dicks didn’t tell them to drop the name.

This is why I don’t think the song is going anywhere.

 

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TrashMaster G

TrashMaster G 18030

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Posted
34 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not tenuous to the people who are offended by it.

Just because they are offended doesn't make it real.  People get offended by fake shit all the time.

28 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The connection to Lee is real even if he never said those words.

Jfc.

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UncleSonny

UncleSonny 6790

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Posted
8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

No, not necessarily.  If we had evidence that the intent of the song was a jab at Prather for blathering on and on about how the state of Texas is looking to UT students to thrive and lead, then that would put a bow on it.  I can't help it when people with an agenda ignore clear evidence. 

Do we have that evidence?  No idea.  I'll wait for the report.  It will likely be inconclusive, but I'll read it nonetheless.

I agree with what you are saying that the lyrics/intent is the most straightforward issue here. Find the lyrics were written from perspective of a slave owner and the song should be done away with, easy. If it's simply the bolded (like I expect the report to show) then yeah lets put that part to bed. I think you are underplaying the debut at a minstrel show aspect though. 

I'm not DD here, the facts and intent does matter and the whole thing is salvageable depending on what those are. I don't think the song should be shamefully banished if the entire issue is that it was first preformed at a minstrel show 100 years ago. At the same time, if black players (or anyone) don't want to stand up and sing that song now that it's history is common knowledge I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm certainly not interested in MAKING anyone sing it if they feel that way. That's what has to be navigated.

 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12612

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Nationally, Eyes has been smeared and it will be an upheld battle to retain it as a tradition. The comp was in reply to the idea that Eyes will stay no matter what. Not that it was exact same situation.

Bottom-line: if its a no go with students and spirit groups and athletes, it will fade away. Or become really awkward. Awkward is not good for anyone.

Also, our racist underbelly was exposed in the bigwig emails. That’s gonna leave a mark.

I guess this makes sense.

I just think it's really different than the Redskins nickname.

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PassiveAggressiveCoach

PassiveAggressiveCoach 118

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Posted
21 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

I don’t know that it’s too late either, but it’s certainly become increasingly difficult by the university’s inexplicable lack leadership on the issue over the last 6 months. I think a major issue now is that probably a majority of the student body is now convinced it’s inherently racist and now incoming students will think so too because that’s the prevailing notion on social media, accurate or not. The challenge in marketing now is a lot of students frankly don’t care about athletics so their opinions won’t be swayed by Legendary Longhorn athletes and they’ll simply dismiss other attempts. Their minds are made up and it’s hard to reverse course. Not saying it can’t be done but it’s definitely a steep uphill climb.

pay some Longhorn IG influencer then to talk to their hyper woke asses.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46976

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

I agree with what you are saying that the lyrics/intent is the most straightforward issue here. Find the lyrics were written from perspective of a slave owner and the song should be done away with, easy. If it's simply the bolded (like I expect the report to show) then yeah lets put that part to bed. I think you are underplaying the debut at a minstrel show aspect though. 

I'm not DD here, the facts and intent does matter and the whole thing is salvageable depending on what those are. I don't think the song should be shamefully banished if the entire issue is that it was first preformed at a minstrel show 100 years ago. At the same time, if black players (or anyone) don't want to stand up and sing that song now that it's history is common knowledge I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm certainly not interested in MAKING anyone sing it if they feel that way. That's what has to be navigated.

I'm pretty much on board with your interpretation.  If there isn't enough incentive to shelve the song, then I don't see any reason to MAKE athletes sing it.  I think it's reasonable to tell them to stand on the sideline and behave with respect, but you can put your fist in the air or kneel or sit or whatever.  Groupthink is almost always a bad thing, anyway.

That said, I can completely imagine a scenario where the song was written with no racial intent whatsoever and yet was debuted in a minstrel show, perhaps in blackface.  I do believe those shows were a direct reflection of inherent societal racism.  I don't necessarily think every performance was an overt act to promote racist ideals.  Maybe they were, but I can imagine a world with a lot of gray in it.

Maybe the right thing to do is to actually use this uproar to promote more and civil conversation between diverse university groups.  Crazy, I know.

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