Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[randygilman 643]

If people are offended by the existence of the boogey man, which doesn't exist, they are more than welcome to continue to be offended by it.

But just because they are welcome, potentially encouraged, possibly celebrated for their offense at the existence of the boogeyman, doesn't mean I can't call out that the boogeyman is made up. 

[David Dennison 19441]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The insistence of the small but vocal community of racist alumni to use this song as some sort of rallying cry is the quickest way to ensure that The Eyes of Texas is tainted and ultimately removed.

Nailed it.

[fattyflattie 4640]

28 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Dude, it's totally cool.  He's not racist...he jerks off to Asian porn.  

Ahem. Pretty sure it goes beyond that. 

[hornyjay 10]

13 hours ago, po elvis said:

when people are making up stuff like this to be upset and offended by, I think we are doing pretty damn well as a country. the truly oppressed around the world are shaking their heads.

Like I said.......as far as race issues go, this is EASY TO FIX.

Nobody is out protesting, or marching, or causing problems in traffic, or shutting down buildings or operations.  They simply said they don't want to be forced into singing the song.

So let them.  Its REALLY not a big deal in the slightest.  We have to stop trying to FORCE everyone to do things our way in this country.  Everybody loves freedom until folks choose to be free enough NOT to do what you like.  Say like standing for the anthem or singing a song they find offensive.

[notre dame joe 202]

15 hours ago, mdmost said:

You've now officially lost it, David. The Daily Kos?

Without looking I predict T.D.K. wrote many articles on Kapernick without mentioning the name of his team.

14 hours ago, randygilman said:

David Dennison is just being a troll at this point. He's pressing your buttons (the editorial). Once Hartzell drops his nutz on Dennison's face with a report that will bolster university efforts to have the Eyes of Texas remain the alma mater, he'll crawl back and be a CR shithead and we won't have to worry about his bullshit again.

I still won't don't vote him.

[BurntOrange&White 41652]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Some of our fucking donors need to fucking check themselves.  I mean, it's nice that you're rich and all, but you're not that big a fucking deal.

Overshown says, that athletic department officials came to the players and said, “These are some high-power people that come to see you play and they can keep you from getting a job in the state of Texas."  First off, I absolutely believe that someone in the AD said that.  And I absolutely believe that person was passing along what s/he heard from some big cigar(s).

And that is stupid as fuck.

Ok--so one donor isn't going to hire DeMarvion Overshown.  Maybe a dozen won't.  Guess what--this isn't fucking Alabama.  There are more than a dozen employers in this state.  And virtually none of the employers in this state give a fuck about The Eyes of Texas or college football generally.  They care about profitability.  And to the extent they care about college football at all, it's more likely that they care about some team other than the Texas Longhorns.  And even to the extent they do care about the Texas Longhorns, there's a very good chance that they're not assholes who are going to refuse to hire you because you stood up for what you thought was right vis-a-vis The Eyes of Texas (even if we ourselves happen to disagree).

We've got some donors that think their dick is a lot larger than it is.  I mean, you may get treated like a BSD on gameday in Austin.  But the fact is, if you go to Davos, you're a fucking pudknocker.  So don't run around here thinking that you control who does and who doesn't get a job in the State of Texas.

Fuck, man.  These fucking people.

You actually believe someone in the AD office told Overshown that they'll be prevented from getting a job in the state of Texas? lol

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You actually believe someone in the AD office told Overshown that they'll be prevented from getting a job in the state of Texas? lol

You don't?

[Gravy Train 982]

3 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

I’d encourage all of our players to sing whatever alternate lyrics they want when the song is played, as long as they are in good taste and respectful to the university. A new song, or at least new words, will bubble up organically.

"Ice-T, Eazy-E, Malcom-X, Fuckin' A...

Oh wait, that's been done before too.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Gravy Train

[CowtownHorn 5126]

I know one thing...I’ll be glad to never hear the term “minstrel show” again. That’s the dumbest fucking term for an activity I’ve ever heard. Didn’t know what one was before this ordeal and don’t care to ever know either. If it’s proven by a committee of professors, historians, and experts that the song is indeed racist...then get rid of the song. But I’d sure like to read those findings. If it’s proven not to be racist...then keep it and sing it loud and proud. End of story. That’s all I got bitches. Hook’em!

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, CowtownHorn said:

I know one thing...I’ll be glad to never hear the term “minstrel show” again. That’s the dumbest fucking term for an activity I’ve ever heard. Didn’t know what one was before this ordeal and don’t care to ever know either. If it’s proven by a committee of professors, historians, and experts that the song is indeed racist...then get rid of the song. But I’d sure like to read those findings. If it’s proven not to be racist...then keep it and sing it loud and proud. End of story. That’s all I got bitches. Hook’em!

It's the song's origin story that will determine its fate, not the song itself.

[CowtownHorn 5126]

Just now, David Dennison said:

It's the song's origin story that will determine its fate, not the song itself.

Like I said...if it’s proven to be racist...then get rid of it. And I mean the intent, lyrics, and everything. But I want to see the facts.

[BurntOrange&White 41652]

3 minutes ago, CowtownHorn said:

I know one thing...I’ll be glad to never hear the term “minstrel show” again. That’s the dumbest fucking term for an activity I’ve ever heard. Didn’t know what one was before this ordeal and don’t care to ever know either. If it’s proven by a committee of professors, historians, and experts that the song is indeed racist...then get rid of the song. But I’d sure like to read those findings. If it’s proven not to be racist...then keep it and sing it loud and proud. End of story. That’s all I got bitches. Hook’em!

It's bad enough we have to hear about a menstrual cycle one time a month, am I right boys? 

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, CowtownHorn said:

Like I said...if it’s proven to be racist...then get rid of it. And I mean the intent, lyrics, and everything. But I want to see the facts.

Those things aren't going to matter. 

[BurntOrange&White 41652]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Those things aren't going to matter. 

Facts don't matter, great reality we've created. But go ahead with hearsay and conjecture brother!

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Facts don't matter, great reality we've created. But go ahead with hearsay and conjecture brother!

It's is neither hearsay nor conjecture to say that the Eyes of Texas has ties to Robert E. Lee, minstrelsy, and black face.

[BurntOrange&White 41652]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's is neither hearsay nor conjecture to say that the Eyes of Texas has ties to Robert E. Lee, minstrelsy, and black face.

It absolutely is hearsay. The very thing you cited of regarding Robert E Lee was the definition of hearsay.  It is most likely fact that it did start in minstrel shows, but it's conjecture to say it was performed in black face. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

It absolutely is hearsay. The very thing you cited was definition of hearsay. 

No, it isn't.

[Pope Joan 68]

18 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

"Journalism" is entering a dangerous zone

No, it's not. It's the same as always, the vast majority of content is nothing but propaganda.

 

17 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

I fucking hate Twitter and the mindless excuse for "journalism" that is enabled by it.

I also am not happy with Twitter, but I am not happy with any other portion of the so-called "media".

 

15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

No such thing as bad publicity.

Baylor and Penn State likely would take issue with that statement.

 

2 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Why haven't were heard from any of our players of Chinese descent?  The EOT is song to the tune of I've Been Working on the Railroad.  It seems like the players of Chinese descent are the ones that should really be offended by it.

They were the Western Crew, and while the Eastern Crew (Blacks and Irish) probably would agree with that, the use of such a specific tune does not necessarily follow.

Still, my sarchasmeter did not malfunction, as some others' did. I would extend the point to the length at which one might just as deservedly claim to be offended by and thus seek to ban every work, music, visual art, or otherwise, of racially incongruent persons.

To me, The Eyes is a silly song, not a racist one. But silliness has never offended me. I don't believe attacking the song as being racist for any of the "reasons" that have been given holds any water at all. Stop it.

 

[CowtownHorn 5126]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Those things aren't going to matter. 

The committee will determine this. Not you.

[927 E. 41st 1124]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No, it isn't.

Ooooh, powerful argument there!

[BurntOrange&White 41652]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No, it isn't.

"As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students, "Young men, the eyes of the South are upon you." President Prather changed the words slightly and used them as opening and parting comments he made to students. "The Eyes of Texas are upon you" was placed under trademark registration in 1936."




Literally hearsay.

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

"As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students, "Young men, the eyes of the South are upon you." President Prather changed the words slightly and used them as opening and parting comments he made to students. "The Eyes of Texas are upon you" was placed under trademark registration in 1936."




Literally hearsay.

It literally isn't.

[ChiTownDoc 21324]

4 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Why haven't were heard from any of our players of Chinese descent?  The EOT is song to the tune of I've Been Working on the Railroad.  It seems like the players of Chinese descent are the ones that should really be offended by it.

Dat Nguyen talk not going away...

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It's bad enough we have to hear about a menstrual cycle one time a month, am I right boys? 

Dibs on "Minstrel Cycle" for my new alt.ironic lesbian improve troupe name

(also, dibs on not having to tell ChiTownDoc about Dat Chinese)

Edited March 4, 2021 by Lobo

[TriStone 1724]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You actually believe someone in the AD office told Overshown that they'll be prevented from getting a job in the state of Texas? lol

I have no problem believing that someone in the AD office informed Overshown that this university and its traditions are very dear to the hearts of a great many people, and that shitting on those traditions will close a lot of doors for him.

[TriStone 1724]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It literally isn't.

"As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students ..."

He reportedly heard. I'm no lawyer, but the above statement seems to be saying that someone heard that Prather heard Lee say something while Prather was a student at W&L.  How exactly is that not hearsay?

 

hear·say
/ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
2. the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

[Guest Lobo]

"A lot of people are saying that Lee told students that the 'Eyes of the South' are upon them"    I mean, if a lot of people are saying it, it's gotta be true. 

Plus, I think anybody attending college in the South between 1865-1870 musta been shitfaced drunk 24/7, so I doubt anything they reportedly heard is valid. 

[David Dennison 19441]

12 minutes ago, TriStone said:

"As a student, he reportedly heard Washington and Lee University President Robert E. Lee tell students ..."

He reportedly heard. I'm no lawyer, but the above statement seems to be saying that someone heard that Prather heard Lee say something while Prather was a student at W&L.  How exactly is that not hearsay?

 

hear·say
/ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
2. the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

It's not hearsay. It is not being submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted. 

 

[Horn of Gabriel 1883]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not hearsay. It is not being submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted. 

 

Aka: Facts don't matter.  Feelings matter.

[landman 564]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You actually believe someone in the AD office told Overshown that they'll be prevented from getting a job in the state of Texas? lol

I could see Herman doing this.

[TriStone 1724]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not hearsay. It is not being submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

I see.  I thought that the matter asserted was that the Eyes of Texas has ties to Robert E. Lee, and that you cited that statement as proof of same.

[landman 564]

6 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think there is a middle ground.  I'm standing on it.  I think a whole lot of people are.  But it's pretty uncomfortable middle ground.

I don't think there's anything racist about the song.  But I appreciate that others have differing opinions.  And I understand where their opinions come from.

But here's the big question facing all of us come September--when those drums start to roll, are you going to throw your horns up and sing along, knowing that a significant number of people around you are going to think that you're singing along to a racist song?  I mean, leaving aside whatever you think about the song personally . . . are you willing to visually and audibly go along with a song that many other people think is racist?

There's a whole fascinating psychological discussion to be had here about permission structures and degrees of agreeability.  And it's going to play out with each one of us.

But from the standpoint of The University, what does it do when a quarter of the stadium isn't throwing up the horns?  Or a third?  Or a half?

I support playing our alma mater before and after games.  But those of us on that side need to prepare ourselves for the day when it is not played.  Because whether we like it or not, that day is coming.

The amount of people that think it is racist is very small, and won't be noticed in a full stadium.

[Ghost of LL 15664]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You actually believe someone in the AD office told Overshown that they'll be prevented from getting a job in the state of Texas? lol

Yeah.  I absolutely believe that someone--very likely Tom Herman--told Overshown and others that.  It is so completely on-brand for Tom Herman and this athletic department that I have a hard understanding why one wouldn't believe that.

2 minutes ago, landman said:

The amount of people that think it is racist is very small, and won't be noticed in a full stadium.

I think we may disagree with the number of people.

But regardless, I think you and I agree that there are some people.  And so the question remains--are you going to raise your horns and sing along when you know that some people around you are going to think that you're singing along to a racist song?

Maybe you will.  Maybe you're one of those guys who's all like "I don't give a shit what other people think; I'm going to wear my burnt orange skinny jeans and there's not a fucking thing you can do about it."

But a lot of people aren't like that.  A lot of people care what other people think, and don't want to be perceived as singing along to a racist song.

So you may be right.  It may be that the actual number who think the song is racist is "very small."  I don't think I agree, but it doesn't matter.  The real question is how many people are going to forego singing The Eyes because of what they think other people think about it?

I don't know the answer to that question.  But I will tell you that I think the trendline is heading in the wrong direction.

[David Dennison 19441]

24 minutes ago, TriStone said:

I see.  I thought that the matter asserted was that the Eyes of Texas has ties to Robert E. Lee, and that you cited that statement as proof of same.

I am not concerned with the truthfulness of the William Prather's statement. All I care about is whether he said it. That establishes the tie to Lee.

[UncleSonny 6790]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

But regardless, I think you and I agree that there are some people.  And so the question remains--are you going to raise your horns and sing along when you know that some people around you are going to think that you're singing along to a racist song?

It's also going to be tough to square the argument that the EOT is about one thing - every race and creed coming together as Longhorns to share in a moment of unity - if it turns into the crowd forcefully singing it AT a group of players who have made it clear they don't want to participate. 

 

 

[TriStone 1724]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I am not concerned with the truthfulness of the William Prather's statement. All I care about is whether he said it. That establishes the tie to Lee.

Well, I see the distinction you're making at least.  I admit I've only skimmed this thread, but is there a direct quote from Prather in which he confirms that he lifted the saying from Lee?

Edited March 4, 2021 by TriStone

[Ghost of LL 15664]

22 minutes ago, TriStone said:

Well, I see the distinction you're making at least.  I admit I've only skimmed this thread, but is there a direct quote from Prather in which he confirms that he lifted the saying from Lee?

Does it matter?

[NeverMarryAStripper 22241]

25 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

It's also going to be tough to square the argument that the EOT is about one thing - every race and creed coming together as Longhorns to share in a moment of unity - if it turns into the crowd forcefully singing it AT a group of players who have made it clear they don't want to participate. 

 

 

Especially after we've made it clear that we'd like them to beat OU and win the Big 12

[David Dennison 19441]

28 minutes ago, TriStone said:

Well, I see the distinction you're making at least.  I admit I've only skimmed this thread, but is there a direct quote from Prather in which he confirms that he lifted the saying from Lee?

I don't know. It's in his bio on the UT website. They got it from somewhere.

https://www.utsystem.edu/board-of-regents/former-regents/william-lambdin-prather

[TriStone 1724]

It's a repeat of the same 'reportedly heard' statement, but yeah it's in the bio.

Edited March 4, 2021 by TriStone

[David Dennison 19441]

2 minutes ago, TriStone said:

Yes, if we're going to ban the song, then I'd prefer that the reason for banning it be true.

Even if William Prather never heard Robert E. Lee utter those words, Robert E. Lee, according to William Prather, was the inspiration behind the words, "The eyes of Texas are upon you."

Therein lies the rub.

 

[TriStone 1724]

I agree with you that it being on the official UT bio lends heft to the assertion.  It's still a pretty flimsy reason to ban the song in my opinion.

[MontereyMX 922]

Time to start a new room called Titty Baby.  All this shit needs to be there.  JMO!  Lebrons crying ass should be the first entry!!

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I am sure Lee said lots of shit in his life. So what?  Lee telling students of a college that the Eyes of the South are on them has absolutely no racial connotation to anyone with an IQ over 11. Jesus Christ this shit is tiring.

[ChiTownDoc 21324]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I am sure Lee said lots of shit in his life. So what?  Lee telling students of a college that the Eyes of the South are on them has absolutely no racial connotation to anyone with an IQ over 11. Jesus Christ this shit is tiring.

I’m not offended either.  But Lee didn’t kill thousands to keep my people enslaved.  

[David Dennison 19441]

39 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I am sure Lee said lots of shit in his life. So what?  Lee telling students of a college that the Eyes of the South are on them has absolutely no racial connotation to anyone with an IQ over 11. Jesus Christ this shit is tiring.

It's Robert E. Lee, commander of the Army of Northern Virginia.

There's a little racial connotation.

[Guest Lobo]

well maybe if so many Texans hadn't pissed and moaned about removing Lee statues, covering up his bio, complaining about how we can't just erase his heritage and military prowess...people wouldn't be digging around looking for everything dumbass, racist thing he ever said.  

The Confederacy lost.  Every single fucking thing that stands for its memory is a participation trophy.  It's a remind of a second rate group of people (White Southerners) who could fuck up a cup of coffee, and how they'll always be lesser Americans.  People lose wars, no shame in it.  But they don't spend 150 years afterwards screaming about "Yeah, but..."  If people would shut the fuck up about Lee, and the South, and heritage, and state's rights, and all that other bullshit...the song woulda been fine and stood the test of time.  But nope, people gotta find something else to virtue signal about.  I can't be an out-and-out racist cunt at alumni gatherings anymore 'cause of that darn Top 10% rule, so I guess I'll pick some other meaningless battle.  150 years later, Southern Pride doesn't know it's a dead man walking.  

I love the song.  But a people should know when they've been conquered, particularly 6 generations later. 

[GTNY 284]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I am sure Lee said lots of shit in his life. So what?  Lee telling students of a college that the Eyes of the South are on them has absolutely no racial connotation to anyone with an IQ over 11. Jesus Christ this shit is tiring.

Wut?

[Tex Pete 21394]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:59 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Earl, Ricky, Vince

 

Even the medium money go who claimed he donated a million said nothing racist.  It was this:

"My wife and I have given an endowment in excess of $1 million to athletics. This could very easily be rescinded if things don’t drastically change around here," wrote one donor in October. 

 

The Cleti who said the racist shit, what level is he? Hartzell's email is public.  Any t-shirt fan or $200 a year donor can email the man.

As can Daniel Figurelli, under any alias. He does it on Twitter, why not in emails?

[Tex Pete 21394]

On 3/3/2021 at 5:34 PM, dec3169 said:

Might be awkward too if the LHB decides they won't play it.

Fuck em. If they won’t play, they have no business being in the band.