Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

What a little bitch you are! 

You’ll be ok I promise you’ll find another story to get off to 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Sgt Hulk

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

6 hours ago, immamac said:

Recruits care. It's a big deal in the recruiting landscape, if you don't understand that then idk what to tell you. 

 

5 hours ago, Ridingtosunset said:

Alabama seems to recruit just fine. 

One huge reason Bama is Bama is that they value football over racist symbols, unlike their Mississippi neighbors. Ole Miss has underachieved since integration in large part because of their stubborn attachment to the Old South. Like it or not, the EOT has become something like a rebel flag for us. 

 

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Personally, I don't think the material inference is weak. I think William Prather, like many W&L grads, thought very highly of Robert E. Lee. It seems extremely likely that Robert E. Lee was the inspiration behind Prather telling UT students, "The eyes of Texas are upon you." The association with Robert E. Lee, through Prather, is real. Throw in minstrel shows and black face and you have a toxic brew that will become more difficult for the University to spin as time goes on.

 

I really don't think the connection to Lee, which may or may not even exist, is the main issue here. I think it's the minstrel show origins. Whether or not it was performed in blackface, you can bet it was sung in dialect -- "De eyes ob Texas are 'pon you," or somesuch -- or it wouldn't be minstrel material. 

Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think the idea that we should trash a tradition over a modified second-hand comment with no racist content just because it was first uttered by a Confederate general is really stupid. As has been pointed out upthread, Lee said a lot of things. Memorably, when asked if he'd like a drink of whiskey, he declined. "Don't you like whiskey, Mr. Lee," the host asked. "Yes, I like it very much. And that's why I never drink it."

And he also had a lot to say about national reconciliation in the aftermath of the war, sternly and clearly stating the the defeated Southerners should put away their flags and not build monuments to the Lost Cause. Should we pretend he never said that, just because he chose the wrong side in the war?

Anyway, I think the minstrel show origins are enough, and the song needs to go, and as I've said before, my great-grandfather very well might have been in attendance for its debut performance and it's a song I've sung often as a lullaby to my children. And there is no reason for them not to sing it to their children, but to force it on Black athletes is just wrong IMO. 

 

[David Dennison 18703]

21 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

You’re not going to like the facts of this report. I’m sorry this is happening to you

I don't think the facts of this report are going to matter. I think the school will eventually retire the song no matter what the report says.

[Ridingtosunset 129]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

One huge reason Bama is Bama is that they value football over racist symbols, unlike their Mississippi neighbors. Ole Miss has underachieved since integration in large part because of their stubborn attachment to the Old South. Like it or not, the EOT has become something like a rebel flag for us. 

 

 

 

Quite true. Seems like they reward results. There is only one color that matters in this country...and its green. 

[babysdaddy 2718]

I don't think the facts of this report are going to matter. I think the school will eventually retire the song no matter what the report says.

I’m sorry this is happening to you DD. You’ll find something else to troll about

[RollLeft 5040]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I really don't think the connection to Lee, which may or may not even exist, is the main issue here. I think it's the minstrel show origins. Whether or not it was performed in blackface, you can bet it was sung in dialect -- "De eyes ob Texas are 'pon you," or somesuch -- or it wouldn't be minstrel material. 

Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think the idea that we should trash a tradition over a modified second-hand comment with no racist content just because it was first uttered by a Confederate general is really stupid. As has been pointed out upthread, Lee said a lot of things. Memorably, when asked if he'd like a drink of whiskey, he declined. "Don't you like whiskey, Mr. Lee," the host asked. "Yes, I like it very much. And that's why I never drink it."

And he also had a lot to say about national reconciliation in the aftermath of the war, sternly and clearly stating the the defeated Southerners should put away their flags and not build monuments to the Lost Cause. Should we pretend he never said that, just because he chose the wrong side in the war?

Anyway, I think the minstrel show origins are enough, and the song needs to go, and as I've said before, my great-grandfather very well might have been in attendance for its debut performance and it's a song I've sung often as a lullaby to my children. And there is no reason for them not to sing it to their children, but to force it on Black athletes is just wrong IMO. 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by RollLeft

[David Dennison 18703]

19 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

I’m sorry this is happening to you DD. You’ll find something else to troll about

And when the inevitable happens, you'll find something else to be upset about.

[BurntOrange&White 39721]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And when the inevitable happens, you'll find something else to be upset about.

Irony

[David Dennison 18703]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Irony

Politics.

[LonghornSean 3942]

50 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Damn how pissed will the CR regulars who Bukakke each other to the shit be when they realize that their dreams of this evil racist song won’t come true.  I’ll pray for their boyfriends 

Most of us liberals want to keep the song too.

[LTtxfan 49023]

Most Longhorns want to keep the EOT

[Armybrat 40755]

As has been stated, the athletes should not be forced to sing it if they have moral objections - no matter what Sark said.

 

[LTtxfan 49023]

Both sides have to better listen to each other, and show respect and empathy for one another.

• For those that don't want to sing it or participate, that's cool.
• For those that want to keep it and sing the EOT, that's cool.

 

At the end of this video, that's also what Caden says.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Both sides have to better listen to each other, and show respect and empathy for one another.

• For those that don't want to sing it or participate, that's cool.
• For those that want to keep it and sing the EOT, that's cool.

 

At the end of this video, that's also what Caden says.

 

My concern with this approach is that the team will break down on racial lines for the postgame singing. I hope that won't be the case, but I fear it will. In retrospect I wish Sam had not done what he did at the Shootout. 

[Armybrat 40755]

They should at least all sing Texas Fight together though.

[mdmost 42878]

They usually do that in the locker room after games. Not sure if that's the same win or lose but that was constantly shown the last few years on the weekly LHN show. 

 

[maninblack 7974]

17 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

In retrospect I wish Sam had not done what he did at the Shootout. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Had he not, this would not be nearly as big an issue as it is now. I understand why he did what he did, but at what cost? 

[maninblack 7974]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Had he not, this would not be nearly as big an issue as it is now. I understand why he did what he did, but at what cost? 

You understand why he sang the school song? Well that's nice.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, maninblack said:

You understand why he sang the school song? Well that's nice.

Oh fuck off with the disingenuousness. You know what I mean. 

[Pope Joan 68]

Have any of you fine people, lurking or participating, come up with a replacement? It's not even needed, unless the song needs to be replaced. But the title assumes replacement is required, so y'all need to get into action and find that new song. Or an old one, of course, although there's a definite lack of respect for that.

What's the New Song?

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Nice neg spree, @Restinmybones. 

[babysdaddy 2718]

And when the inevitable happens, you'll find something else to be upset about.

[Restinmybones 111]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Nice neg spree, @Restinmybones. 

Thank you. I do what I can.

[Hookem2147 20944]

Texas was playing at a neutral site with the band not in attendance. They didn’t sing the eyes at Tech earlier in the year and the speakers started playing the song 10 freaking minutes after the game had ended. The team just lost in 4 overtimes to their rival. The only reason Ehlinger was even still on the field was because of media obligations. The rest of the team didn’t even know the song was being played because it wasn’t played away from DKR the whole season.

 

It’s stupid that’s what re-ignited this whole thing and the media had to take off and run with the post OU picture with no context around it.

I’ve been to each of the last 3 NCAA basketball tournament games for Texas (all losses) and the team didn’t stay out on the floor for the eyes or any of them. Why wasn’t that news?

My point is, people will do anything for clicks and unfortunately no one ever thinks of both sides before forming an unbiased opinion.

[Guest Lobo]

So the big "report" comes out on Tuesday morning.  I'm assuming it'll just have lots of "inputs" and "feedback" and "talking points" and "listening notes"  

I'm gonna get Billy Ray and Lewis on it...and we're gonna get an early copy of that report.  

Edited March 6, 2021 by Lobo

[Pope Joan 68]

31 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

My concern with this approach is that the team will break down on racial lines for the postgame singing. I hope that won't be the case, but I fear it will. In retrospect I wish Sam had not done what he did at the Shootout. 

I think you are being disingenuous. I graduated from The University more than thirty years ago. I have never in my life had the remotest idea the The Eyes is somehow racist. Trying to make it so by looking at some part of the environment at some point in time is worse than disingenuous, it's an outright and intentional lie. The question is: why are you doing it?

[Sawbonz 27447]

I was taught the song was written to make fun of president Prather who always ended his speeches with “the eyes of Texas are upon you” which most students found corny. It’s possible Prather picked it up from R E L when he was a student at Washington and Lee but I seriously doubt the song’s author or any of the students at the time would have made that association. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

De eyes ob Texas are 'pon you,"

Cajuns sung it first?  

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

12 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Texas was playing at a neutral site with the band not in attendance. They didn’t sing the eyes at Tech earlier in the year and the speakers started playing the song 10 freaking minutes after the game had ended. The team just lost in 4 overtimes to their rival. The only reason Ehlinger was even still on the field was because of media obligations. The rest of the team didn’t even know the song was being played because it wasn’t played away from DKR the whole season.

 

It’s stupid that’s what re-ignited this whole thing and the media had to take off and run with the post OU picture with no context around it.

I’ve been to each of the last 3 NCAA basketball tournament games for Texas (all losses) and the team didn’t stay out on the floor for the eyes or any of them. Why wasn’t that news?

My point is, people will do anything for clicks and unfortunately no one ever thinks of both sides before forming an unbiased opinion.

This.  @MaybeACoordinator, maybe YOU should fuck off with your disingenuousness and get educated about the context behind that photo of Sam.  Saying he "did that" implying that somehow he was the only one who cared enough to stay out for the EOT, or was shoving it in others faces or that the team abandoned him because of the fake racism of the EOT is all wrong, wrong, wrong.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Horn of Gabriel

[GringoSalado 1651]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

This isn't about the song anymore (not racist) it's about boosters and the school channeling their racism through the song and literally attacking the players. 

I missed that totally. I thought a few dipshits wrote letters, but not to players. You're saying some BMD's literally attacked players over this. And also that this is a PR disaster.

[David Dennison 18703]

4 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

This.  @MaybeACoordinator, maybe YOU should fuck off with your disingenuousness and get educated about the context behind that photo of Sam.  Saying he "did that" implying that somehow he was the only one who cared enough to stay out for the EOT, or was shoving it in others faces or that the team abandoned him because of the fake racism of the EOT is all wrong, wrong, wrong.

This take is not helpful.

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

Just now, David Dennison said:

This take is not helpful.

I understand you may not like the report this week.  Sorry it will be hard for you.

[David Dennison 18703]

1 minute ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I understand you may not like the report this week.  Sorry it will be hard for you.

Why would I care? The Eyes of Texas does not bother me.

[futureman 22427]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

As has been stated, the athletes should not be forced to sing it if they have moral objections - no matter what Sark said.

 

have any athletes ever been “forced” to sing it?  it’s just a tradition. 

[Machinator 32098]

How is it that we're 141 pages into this thread and people still think the athletes are forced to sing the song after a contest?

Granted, there is either a mandate or "strong suggestion" for them to stay on the field/court, so for some it is a distinction without a difference.

[Restinmybones 111]

27 minutes ago, Pope Joan said:

I think you are being disingenuous. I graduated from The University more than thirty years ago. I have never in my life had the remotest idea the The Eyes is somehow racist. Trying to make it so by looking at some part of the environment at some point in time is worse than disingenuous, it's an outright and intentional lie. The question is: why are you doing it?

He needs to point to the place on the Sooner doll where the song hurt him.

[utee94 15747]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

 In retrospect I wish Sam had not done what he did at the Shootout. 

This is a really shitty take, and go fuck yourself.

[Armybrat 40755]

16 minutes ago, futureman said:

have any athletes ever been “forced” to sing it?  it’s just a tradition. 

I’ve noticed some in the past who didn’t sing it, but maybe because they had a voice like Tiny Tim.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

31 minutes ago, Pope Joan said:

I think you are being disingenuous. I graduated from The University more than thirty years ago. I have never in my life had the remotest idea the The Eyes is somehow racist. Trying to make it so by looking at some part of the environment at some point in time is worse than disingenuous, it's an outright and intentional lie. The question is: why are you doing it?

My family has been associated with the university since about 1886. I had no idea there were racist connotations to the song either, until recently. And I don't think they are that strong, but here is the deal: my opinion does not matter. The game is played by Black athletes, and if they think the minstrel song origins of this are enough to junk this song, then we junk the song. This is not gonna be some slippery slope as some posters want to believe. We just retire the song, or maybe play it in some scenario where the team is not expected to be on the field singing it with fans. 

[Restinmybones 111]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My family has been associated with the university since about 1886. I had no idea there were racist connotations to the song either, until recently. And I don't think they are that strong, but here is the deal: my opinion does not matter. The game is played by Black athletes, and if they think the minstrel song origins of this are enough to junk this song, then we junk the song. This is not gonna be some slippery slope as some posters want to believe. We just retire the song, or maybe play it in some scenario where the team is not expected to be on the field singing it with fans. 

There is FAR more than the opinions of a small number of athletes involved here. 

[UncleSonny 6564]

Y’all aren’t wrong to go after anyone implying that Sam did anything wrong after OU but I sure hope y’all were using this amazing ability to place things in context to defend the players that weren’t out there as well. 

As I remember it most on this thread were calling those guys drama queens, babies, and shitty teammates when that dumb picture came out with little pushback. Even after the details around it were made clear. 

[StassneyHorn 6541]

I remember the early 00s, most of you don’t. There were tons of topics of Do you sing the eyes? When do you wave your hands? Do you feel weird with people singing and staring at you?

[StassneyHorn 6541]

Plenty of white guys not named Sam Ehlinger left the field.

[Mole 4320]

3 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Plenty of white guys not named Sam Ehlinger left the field.

Most of the white guys weren't named Sam Ehlinger.

[ousux 5588]

When in the pitch did Mack bring up the mistral show? I'm assuming he didn't close with it. Maybe just threw it in quickly at the start.
 
Those of you  who would rather go watch golf than the team playing without the eyes can fuck right off and go watch golf.  My commitment is to the school, students and players. They are the ones that have the right to decide which traditions they value. 
Also if losing the eyes destroys your fandom than we're better off without you.

*minstrel
And he probably didnt know it was ever used in an inappropriate way. How many of us here knew about it until very recently? I didnt..

What happened to taking something that *might* have meant something not good at one time and giving it a different meaning? I mean words get different meanings all the time..why not words strung together as a song?

[immamac 42570]

57 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

I missed that totally. I thought a few dipshits wrote letters, but not to players. You're saying some BMD's literally attacked players over this. And also that this is a PR disaster.

Yeah, direct contact with players threatening their future livelihoods in the state and a bunch of other crazy shit. 

[Restinmybones 111]

2 minutes ago, Mole said:

Most of the white guys weren't named Sam Ehlinger.

Um, wait.... There were other guys named "Sam Ehlinger"? Holy Mole.... We got something weird going on. 

[TreatyOak 16172]

41 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My family has been associated with the university since about 1886. I had no idea there were racist connotations to the song either, until recently. And I don't think they are that strong, but here is the deal: my opinion does not matter. The game is played by Black athletes, and if they think the minstrel song origins of this are enough to junk this song, then we junk the song. This is not gonna be some slippery slope as some posters want to believe. We just retire the song, or maybe play it in some scenario where the team is not expected to be on the field singing it with fans. 

Don't care what you think. Love your avatar. 

[Restinmybones 111]

40 minutes ago, Restinmybones said:

There is FAR more than the opinions of a small number of athletes involved here. 

Whoops... I meant to say "...just old enough to shave athletes...."