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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

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utee94

utee94 16066

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Agreed.  I wouldn't call it a "burden of proof" thing, exactly (as in who has the burden of proof that EOT is a horrid racist ditty), but more along the lines of to bend the story to impute racist motivation to John Lang Sinclair just doesn't make much sense.

The story would have to be something like: 

Sinclair: That old bastard Prather sure likes to prattle on about the eyes of Texas. 

Other Character: Yes, it's irritating as hell, but it's also a celebration of the CSA, Robt. E. Lee, and how the South will rise again. 

Sinclair: Sure enough.  Let's write a song making fun of the old bastard, and, along the way, we can remind those uppity nigras that the eyes of Texas are upon them and we'll never let them get away. 

Other Character:  Yes!  And we can put it in the minstrel show in blackface.

Sinclair:  Brilliant!  It will be a very crafty double-entendre.  We'll fool everyone with our disguised racism!

Like anything, I suppose it's in the realm of possibility.  But it seems quite unlikely.  For one thing, at the time, there wasn't any particular reason to disguise one's racism.  If one wanted to write a racially demeaning song for a minstrel show, there was nothing to stop it, so why be so cryptic?

Some of the other racially demeaning songs or chants of the era, like Gator Bait, seem cryptic to us, but that's because the original meaning had been lost to history.  With EOT, it hasn't been lost to history, it just never was.

Not only all of this, but you also would have to add to the story something along the lines of,

"Character 3: Wait, there are actually no black people attending The University of Texas, and there won't be for six more decades.  It doesn't really make sense to write a song putting them in their place when they'll never even hear it.  Oh well, I'm racist AF so let's do it anyway!  Maybe my great grandkids will get the chance to sing it to some black people and really show them what's what!"

 

 

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Deej
Deej

Considering it is sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad", shouldn't the Chinese students be the ones with the problem?

NorthLoop
NorthLoop

I'm a Trump hating liberal and hope the Republican party withers and dies before my children are of voting age.  That being said....  The song isn't racist. The bullshit 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon

crash_davis
crash_davis

I don't like some if the demands but I'm not a black athlete representing the University of Texas. I don't know what it's like to deal with the fucked up system that they've grown up under.  Fuck

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21394

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

This report is great in the sense that it gives us a credible basis to educate future Longhorn athletes and debunk the "this song is about a slavemaster overseeing his slaves" myth, but I don't see how this really quells any drama unless we get 100% buy-in from the team to stay for The Eyes.

If even 1 player decides to leave the field we know exactly how a huge portion of our fanbase will react: Personal attacks, character assassination, loud public whining, threats to withdraw support, etc...

This looks like just another kick of the can down the road.

Fuck anyone who is so childish he can’t stand quietly beside his teammates. Bad teammate, indeed. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Not only all of this, but you also would have to add to the story something along the lines of,

"Character 3: Wait, there are actually no black people attending The University of Texas, and there won't be for six more decades.  It doesn't really make sense to write a song putting them in their place when they'll never even hear it.  Oh well, I'm racist AF so let's do it anyway!  Maybe my great grandkids will get the chance to sing it to some black people and really show them what's what!"

 

 

Haha, yeah, I almost added that to my little play.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8350

Posted
Posted (edited)

Galveston Daily News, Nov 8, 1892. Scene is a Galveston rally for unsuccessful gubernatorial candidate George Clark. Speaker is almost certainly Thomas Jack Ballinger, son of William Pitt Ballinger, a very prominent lawyer, politician and Confederate veteran who passed away in 1888.:

158771358_10160985681917942_582661242960

 

This Ballinger was born in 1866 so he wouldn't have heard this firsthand on the battlefield either from Lee or Gregg. I think it's telling that the two images are paired here. ...It seems to indicate that this was being thrown around a fair bit in the ten years leading up to 1903. 

The older Ballinger did not serve in the Confederate army and remained in Galveston throughout the war, so he wouldn't have heard it from Lee or Gregg either.

Edited by MaybeACoordinator
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Js1

Js1 86939

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Fuck anyone who is so childish he can’t stand quietly beside his teammates. Bad teammate, indeed. 

Fuck anyone who is so childish they prefer a song to letting human beings have feelings and dictate things for themselves.  What a stupid ass hill to die on - what is this, aggy? 

You don't like muh traditions, so get the fuck out, you 2%er! 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Galveston Daily News, Nov 8, 1892. Scene is a Galveston rally for unsuccessful gubernatorial candidate George Clark. Speaker is almost certainly Thomas Jack Ballinger, son of William Pitt Ballinger, a very prominent lawyer, politician and Confederate veteran who passed away in 1888.:

158771358_10160985681917942_582661242960

 

This Ballinger was born in 1866 so he wouldn't have heard this firsthand on the battlefield either from Lee or Gregg. I think it's telling that the two images are paired here. ...It seems to indicate that this was being thrown around a fair bit in the ten years leading up to 1903. 

The older Ballinger did not serve in the Confederate army and remained in Galveston throughout the war, so he wouldn't have heard it from Lee or Gregg either.

That's interesting.

It is kind of ambiguous in that it raises the question whether "the eyes of _______ are upon you" was a common general exhortation or actually some Lost Cause shibboleth.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

In light of the findings, I’m genuinely curious what they would find objectionable to the degree that they would need to protest the song.

You're not.

Know how I know, look at the deep bitterness you're already going into this with...

"But I fully expect after being force fed this narrative of “tough conversations” that I’ll be given the standard platitudes you’ve already thrown my way. "

You're doing the usual "iM jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs" passive aggressive crap. You're going in with a political and/or ideological agenda and you're trying to mask it by pretending to be an innocent, curious bystander. You're not. You're just looking at this as yet another wedge for your political and/or ideological agenda and it is ultimately hurtful to the university. So shut the hell up.

27 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Fuck anyone who is so childish he can’t stand quietly beside his teammates. Bad teammate, indeed. 

And here we are. The players haven't even done anything yet and our fans are already personally attacking them.

Can kicked down road.

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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You're not.

Know how I know, look at the deep bitterness you're already going into this with...

"But I fully expect after being force fed this narrative of “tough conversations” that I’ll be given the standard platitudes you’ve already thrown my way. "

You're doing the usual "iM jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs" passive aggressive crap. You're going in with a political and/or ideological agenda and you're trying to mask it by pretending to be an innocent, curious bystander. You're not. You're just looking at this as yet another wedge for your political and/or ideological agenda and it is ultimately hurtful to the university. So shut the hell up.

And here we are. The players haven't even done anything yet and our fans are already personally attacking them.

Can kicked down road.

Ok, so platitudes. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. Thanks. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8350

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's interesting.

It is kind of ambiguous in that it raises the question whether "the eyes of _______ are upon you" was a common general exhortation or actually some Lost Cause shibboleth.

Yeah....the elder Ballinger was a dyed-in-the-wool Confederate, even if he was not in the army. He held a few gov't positions in CSA Galveston. He served under Albert Sidney Johnston in the Mexican War, which I guess gave him the street cred to sit out the next war...

His daughter Betty, along with her cousin Hally Ballinger Bryan Perry, founded the DRT, which did more to tamp down Lost Cause mythology in Texas than anything else prior to...I guess the last couple of years. The DRT was instrumental in forging Texas a new pantheon --Crockett, Austin, Houston, Bowie, Travis, Fannin -- that differentiated us from every other state in the Old South. When the Texas Centennial came around in 1936 we really rolled out Texas Revolutionary history to market Texas as unlike states like Alabama and Arkansas.

I grew up moving back and forth between Nashville and Houston and the difference between Lost Cause sentiments is very clear. As in Texas, you take Tennessee history every few years. I remember in fourth grade, I was assigned to write three reports on prominent Tennesseeans who were featured in the state Blue Book. I chose Houston, Crockett, and, um....Nathan Bedford Forrest. 

And oh yeah, this was at a school where we were the Rebels, Dixie was our fight song, the Stars and Bars were stickered on our football helmets, and our principal was known to walk around the campus dressed like this:

Bill_Bradshaw_in_confederate_uniform_in_ 

Real pic from our 1979 yearbook. I know there were and still remain a couple of schools like this in Texas, but the intensity of Lost Cause mythology is nowhere near as intense in Texas as it was in the old Nashville of the '70s and '80s.

Anyway...Kind of lost the plot here. I do believe that with our placing Texas heroes above Confederate heroes in most parts of the state we're a little farther along than the other ex-CSA states but not entirely out of the woods. And in that we've moved beyond giving a shit if the "eyes of the South" are upon us. The Eyes of Texas are far more important to us. 

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21394

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Who says cancel culture is only for the left?

Who is canceling anyone? Is "fuck you!" cancellation? I fail to see it.

I merely stated that asking players to stand with their teammates doesn't seem like a major request. I didn't say they should have to hold up their horns or sing the song. This is like dealing with children.

TEAM means something. Or it used to.

 

Edited by Tex Pete
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

TEAM means something. Or it used to.

Moral lessons from guys without the authority to teach moral lessons.

The team seems fine with letting each other choose. If they are fine with it, why are you trying to be offended on their behalf? What is your actual goal here?

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Horn of Gabriel

Horn of Gabriel 1883

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Add to 2)  . . . or stay on the field or court while the song is being played.

You keep saying this but that doesn't make it true.  I have lived experience of seeing players wander off the field and court before the EOT and not participating in that in the 90's, 00's, and 10's.  You're simply making shit up to say this is new.

The vast majority of players stayed out for the EOT for a host of reasons: tradition, fan service, team camaraderie, not knowing about its origin story, peer pressure.  It may have been an expectation but it has never been a mandate that they stay out.

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RollLeft

RollLeft 5088

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mdmost said:

I get you and I agree. There isn't definitive proof of blackface at the first show but it stands to reason that it happened....

Personally, I'm satisfied with the report because it acknowledges that past and tries to move towards the future. I also like that students/players aren't required to sing it. If a donor or alum has an issue with that, they can frankly f off...

The important thing, imo, was the intent of TEOT.  

The report is clear.  The song began to be penned long before any minstrel show and was penned for other purposes than the show. 

Yes it was first presented at a minstrel show as a matter of fact but not purpose.  Again it is likely that when they first sang TEOT those singers were in blackface because they were already part of the minstrel show.  It would be unlikely that they would take that makeup off just to sing TEOT.   That said, TEOT was not written for the minstrel show and certainly was not intended to be performed as part of the show in blackface, but it happened.   

Yes, everyone is entitled to their feelings.  If a player doesn't like TEOT, they are entitled to those feelings. If an alum doesn't like that a player doesn't sing the TEOT, they are entitled to those feelings.  We are entitled to our feelings, but managing and or acting upon them is another story.  There is dumb on both sides when it comes to keepin it 100. Post opinions on twitter, a public forum, expect an opposing side of the issue.  Don't start none won't be none.  Play stupid games win stupid prizes.  Its the cost of keepin it real on the interwebs.  Like the saying goes, "It is better to be thought of a fool then to speak up and prove it."

 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22978

Posted
Posted (edited)

Can someone correct if anything is wrong about this timeline:

------

Last summer: shit hits the fan, request to change song made by players (among other things)

Later in summer: UT announces changes (RLM, Whittier statue, etc.), song remains. Met with minimal pushback from players

First few football games: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existent

*OU GAME*: Ehlinger is pictured as lone player singing The Eyes, people get mad

Remainder of football games: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existent

Offseason: The Eyes controversy is essentially non-existant until...

Texas Tribune publishes article: Most emails are from around OU game, some are blatantly racist, players relay previous threats made by boosters

Texas publishes findings: No apparent pushback from players

------

So it seems to me, unless I'm forgetting something, aside from the perfect storm of circumstances/misunderstandings resulting in Sam being alone in Dallas (and a few sporadic social media posts from players), this sure seems like a controversy that was more or less resolved last summer that has only stayed alive due to articles rehashing the controversy.

I'm glad the official report was issued, and I feel like the it will go a long ways towards getting the band back on board, but at this point this really seems the impact of The Eyes being played on players/recruits is being overblown. (If anything, the emails from the Tribune would be of much more concern to me in that regard, but I think we can do damage control on those racists.) I'm not saying the players are thrilled to hear the song, but the national narrative of "The school is holding the players hostage by keeping the song" doesn't really seem to be an accurate take any longer. 

 

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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Horn of Gabriel

Horn of Gabriel 1883

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Posted
2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

They can do whatever the hell they want to do, I’m just curious what information they have that I don’t. 

At the risk of agreeing with bad teammate, GTFO with this take.  How about this information: their own life experience as an african-american.  If a player says, "You know what, I get it, and while it's not as bad as I thought, but I'm still not going to honor that song by participating considering its history."  Who the fuck are we to say anything about that.  I hope that they participate but I respect their choice if they opt out.

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UncleSonny

UncleSonny 6790

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

You keep saying this but that doesn't make it true.  I have lived experience of seeing players wander off the field and court before the EOT and not participating in that in the 90's, 00's, and 10's.  You're simply making shit up to say this is new.

The vast majority of players stayed out for the EOT for a host of reasons: tradition, fan service, team camaraderie, not knowing about its origin story, peer pressure.  It may have been an expectation but it has never been a mandate that they stay out.

You're right, some of our players said they didn't stay for it during the 2019 season. Nobody noticed or said anything because it wasn't the hot button issue that it became in summer of '20.

That sort of changed after OU and everything got ramped up, CDC said there was the "expectation" to stay on the field to the media. Coming directly from the AD can sort of be seen as a mandate. Coming back to how it worked on the 90's, 00's, and 10's (with additional context from the report) seems ideal all around. Hopefully fans aren't frantically scanning to see who left or who doesn't look engaged enough while singing. 

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RollLeft

RollLeft 5088

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

At the risk of agreeing with bad teammate, GTFO with this take.  How about this information: their own life experience as an african-american.  If a player says, "You know what, I get it, and while it's not as bad as I thought, but I'm still not going to honor that song by participating considering its history."  Who the fuck are we to say anything about that.  I hope that they participate but I respect their choice if they opt out.

As we respect those who choose not to pray or choose to give praise to God thru dance listening to DJ screw.  

Edited by RollLeft
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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

At the risk of agreeing with bad teammate, GTFO with this take.  How about this information: their own life experience as an african-american.  If a player says, "You know what, I get it, and while it's not as bad as I thought, but I'm still not going to honor that song by participating considering its history."  Who the fuck are we to say anything about that.  I hope that they participate but I respect their choice if they opt out.

Interesting, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand; which was, of course, what makes The Eyes racist. Once a side loses on the facts, they pivot to the claim that the facts don’t matter, only subjective feelings. It’s entirely predictable, albeit hilarious. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

You keep saying this but that doesn't make it true.  I have lived experience of seeing players wander off the field and court before the EOT and not participating in that in the 90's, 00's, and 10's.  You're simply making shit up to say this is new.

The vast majority of players stayed out for the EOT for a host of reasons: tradition, fan service, team camaraderie, not knowing about its origin story, peer pressure.  It may have been an expectation but it has never been a mandate that they stay out.

So lonely Sam at the Cotton Bowl is not an aberration.

Got it.

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UncleSonny

UncleSonny 6790

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Interesting, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand; which was, of course, what makes The Eyes racist. Once a side loses on the facts, they pivot to the claim that the facts don’t matter, only subjective feelings. It’s entirely predictable, albeit hilarious. 

Honest question, did you read the report? It's worth the time.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Interesting, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand; which was, of course, what makes The Eyes racist. Once a side loses on the facts, they pivot to the claim that the facts don’t matter, only subjective feelings. It’s entirely predictable, albeit hilarious. 

Is "this song is racist" the only reason a person might have to not participate in its performance?

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ruitxn

ruitxn 299

Posted
Posted

After reading the last 10 pages of this discussion, the Statesman’s version, and various hot news versions; there is one thing that is totally clear too me.  Different people reading the exact same documents and evidence, will form different opinions as to the validity or relevance of it.  Our athletes may be  just like those hashing and rehashing page after page on this board.  They are going to have different opinions depending on their individual experiences or their abilities at digesting conflicting thoughts.  This contributes to making these types of issues with this type of public awareness and passion (on both sides) very hard to put away...even with an “Official Statement of Findings”. 
 

I have appreciated the discussions.  Thanks for the different expression of ideas.
 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Is standing on the field with teammates and fans "participating?" 

Yes, of course.

2 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Apparently only when it's sung in blackface, but that was a learning experience that should unify us now. 

"should" is doing a lot of work

I agree that we all SHOULD see that as a shameful past and respect how difficult it has been for black Longhorns over the years and even today, and then we use The Eyes as a unifying moment to stand in solidarity with one another. That's how I see it, personally.

But there's a huge problem: A lot of the white faces in that crowd don't share that feeling. Many of those white faces have no respect for the student-athletes at all.

It reminds me of of Chapelle talking about why he quit his show originally; filming a sketch and listening to a white man laugh a little too loud and a little too long and realizing in that moment that the unity he thought he had with his audience wasn't what he thought it was.

So a black student-athlete might realize that a lot of the white faces out there are thinking, "That's right, boy, you do what you're told." as he stands there thinking he's sharing a meaningful moment with his Longhorn community. I can see that destroying the whole emotional connection for that young black athlete and I respect that.

We have to respect everyone's participation or non-participation, otherwise it's meaningless.

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RollLeft

RollLeft 5088

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So everybody is cool with players blowing off the Eyes of Texas if they want to, right?

Why stop there?  Why not "blow off" The University entirely?  I hear it didn't even admit black students during the period in question.    

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21394

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So everybody is cool with players blowing off the Eyes of Texas if they want to, right?

If they stand in unity with their teammates. I can't fathom the childishness of it, but whatever.

Edited by Tex Pete
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