Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[David Dennison 19441]

4 minutes ago, stork642 said:

I think we can all agree that this seems very different compared to incidences of the past.  Everyone seems much more open to listen and try to come up with some serious solutions.  So now more than ever we need to have those civil discussions.  Not sure lists of demands will aid in those discussions.  

Many if not all of the demands will be met. That wouldn't happen if they weren't made in the first place.

Edited June 14, 2020 by David Dennison

[Slacks 7021]

 

 

 

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  The biggest problem facing the black community isn't racism.  It's the fact that over 70 percent are born without a father in the home.

 

You are correct. That is the biggest problem. You are suggesting we only solve the biggest problems and not the mentalities and the memorabilia that helped create that problem.

 

Black families were broken apart upon capture... Slaves were bred. Families (the initial community of anyone's life) were illegal. Slaves couldn't have families. For hundreds of years, family was limited to very few black people. However, killing of slaves and blacks has been legal, more or less, since before this country has been a country to today.

 

So, as you see, and I'm sure you already know, the value system that has failed the black Americans was intentionally created by white Americans.

 

We, the black coalition, would like to erase some of the heritage, teachings, and honoring of people who created the system that intended to leave us fatherless, uneducated, ignorant, and dead.

 

Are you being the devil's advocate or the devil? Put your stake in the ground or your head back in the ground.

 

I haven't read one example of any thoughts or ideas from you. All I've read is you denying the issues have existed for long or denying that the current system is actually a problem.

 

this isn't new. you're (acting) new.

 

[Js1 86939]

6 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Horseshit. They risk their body for the chance at making millions in the NFL. They don’t play football as a service. This is no different from the PPAs or JDs who hurt themselves studying through sleep deprivation and other choices so they can get the big job. Stop making football players out to being anything other than what they are, football players. 

Please list all the JDs who had risk of concussion, CTE, broken bones, etc. from studying.  If a JD tears his ACL, are they out of work for months during recovery?

are you one of the JDs with CTE? 

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Please list all the JDs who had risk of concussion, CTE, broken bones, etc. from studying.  If a JD tears his ACL, are they out of work for months during recovery?

are you one of the JDs with CTE? 

That sleep deprivation, though.

LOL

[ShowMeALoss 143]

6 hours ago, Longhorn said:

You should hang out at the ROTC building and see what those guys/gals are willing to risk to get and education.

I see that the double standard in college football that Herman mentioned is in full display at my alma mater. We would cheer for our players on Saturdays when they risk their body to make a nice hot but God forbid we try to help them when they are done playing. Because ROTC and smart people like you obviously did the same thing, made money for their school, came from an underprivileged background that's the result of our tremendous history of racial and economic equity. Most of these kids beat the odds, and with some helping hand, they will be the ones to break the cycle. But sure let's not give them a helping hand. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by ShowMeALoss

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

10 minutes ago, Snacks said:

 

In the 1960s (not 1800s),the percentage of children born to African American single parent homes was approximately 23%. Something definitely changed in the system. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[David Dennison 19441]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

In the 1960s (not 1800s), children born to African American single parent homes was approximately 23%. Something definitely changed in the system. 

Our criminal justice system has a lot to do with it.

[RomaVicta 30500]

8 minutes ago, 927 E. 41st said:

I'm sure many book burners took the same view. "We now see these books through a new and more nuanced lens, so they must go. Since we now have a totally perfect view of (the subject, the manner in which it was presented, the non perfect nature of author, fill in the blank). This (book, statue, song) must be purged for all time!"

Having your feelings hurt, by the way a song was presented over 100 years ago or by the Jewish linage of an author are childish at best. But be assured these are the same old human impulses in both cases. 

Moving back to football as a topic, we are about to get our asses handed to us this season. If I were an OU fan I'd be laughing my ass off at the lack of focus on football. As such I believe this will be Tom's last year.

Of course, the blacks and their supporters in this protest are just manifesting hurt feelings. They need to be tough like the persons opposing them like to see themselves as being.

The Eyes of Texas issue is a detail, a mere stitch in a disgraceful American quilt used to smother the black citizenry. So let's focus on the detail in order to defend the entire quilt from being, at last, shredded and burned. This tactic reveals the handful of posters on this thread for what they are. I'm actually glad you're revealed.

Go back to the first page and read how this discussion began. I would like to keep the Eyes by finding common ground and consensus with my fellow students and alumni. I'm also willing to let the song be swept away if needed to bond us all together as Longhorns. 

"UT's former school song, The Eyes of Texas, was retired to remove a barrier between races at the University. During the BLM protests of 2020, The University of Texas played a lead role in conciliation by addressing a petition begun by a black student athlete. The University's approach became a model for other colleges in Texas and around the nation."

I'd be damn proud of that paragraph it were to become a part of our history. I'd miss the tradition. It's a small price to pay for what we might change.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

In the 1960s (not 1800s),the percentage of children born to African American single parent homes was approximately 23%. Something definitely changed in the system. 

War on drugs, AKA, the war on non whites.

[Apex73 313]

56 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

This position is so morally bankrupt. For one moment, try to imagine not being white. I truly feel sorry for you. 

Yea well according to you, anything is morally bankrupt that go's against your opinion on issues like these.  Btw who the hell are you to play morality police?  Are you trying to say I should pity them so much that I shouldn't share my concerns about this and just go along with whatever they want to do? You are the one who is dehumanizing them saying we should pity them so much that they can't take opposing view.  With all due respect, I think/hope our players aren't as pathetic as you.  You have way too much white guilt.  Get off your moral high ground and actually have a real opinion for once.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

In the 1960s (not 1800s), children born to African American single parent homes was approximately 23%. Something definitely changed in the system. 

Not sure this is the answer, exactly, but there was a fascinating documentary on the Pruitt-Igoe Homes project in St. Louis.  It was one of the earlier projects and one of the first to fail and be demolished.

It had a policy that generally, two-parent families were not allowed (it didn't get much into the justification, just this fact).  It told stories of fathers being caught "sneaking in" and living with their families and the families being evicted from the home for this reason.

So it seems that the desire to confer aid on only the neediest families (single parent) created a disincentive for two-parent families.

EDIT:  Yes, the war on drugs and systematic incarceration of black males had an impact on families, without question.  However, the war on drugs didn't really commence until 1970 and the disintegration of the two-parent family preceded that.  I am pretty sure it commenced with the "welfare state" and the great society programs.  Not that the welfare state is wrong, per se, but it had some kind of bizarre unintended consequences.

Edited June 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[ShowMeALoss 143]

20 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Horseshit. They risk their body for the chance at making millions in the NFL. They don’t play football as a service. This is no different from the PPAs or JDs who hurt themselves studying through sleep deprivation and other choices so they can get the big job. Stop making football players out to being anything other than what they are, football players. 

When you say stuff like this, you assume you and them come from the same socio economic background and that's why you can never understand what it is like to bring a generation of people out of poverty. This is where Capitalism fails you. And before you get up in arms to defend capitalism, without some tweaking even the best economic system can fail us.

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure this is the answer, exactly, but there was a fascinating documentary on the Pruitt-Igoe Homes project in St. Louis.  It was one of the earlier projects and one of the first to fail and be demolished.

It had a policy that generally, two-parent families were not allowed (it didn't get much into the justification, just this fact).  It told stories of fathers being caught "sneaking in" and living with their families and the families being evicted from the home for this reason.

So it seems that the desire to confer aid on only the neediest families (single parent) created a disincentive for two-parent families.

Any good links to the study?  TIA

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

15 minutes ago, Snacks said:

. For hundreds of years, family was limited to very few black people. However, killing of slaves and blacks has been legal, more or less, since before this country has been a country to today.

The rate of "fatherlessness" in the black community skyrocketed from the mid-1960s on. I guess we must have started singing the hell out of The Eyes of Texas at that point. 

[Apex73 313]

43 minutes ago, Snacks said:

 

 

incorrect.

Prather and Painter names were protested when i was in school 30 years ago... when the Fijis had a Sambo t-shirt for some party, and we all marched to their house and whined about them and the university supporting klansmen and slaveholders by naming buildings after them.

i guess a bunch of people are hoping the American negro slave descendants (it appears some want to keep the historical naming conventions instead of "African Americans") put their heads back in the sand for another 30 years.

nothing gets America charged up more than discussing ways to try to to end racism (aside from donating money, because they know it keeps people in check, ie quiet.)

 

That's one hell of a leap to say people insist that people still want to call them negro.  I just said I don't understand why we are calling them African American when they are for the most part born American and have never been to Africa.  I mean black people is fine and not offensive.  

[TwiceHorn 31987]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Any good links to the study?  TIA

This is the doc's page. http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/about.html

As far as the edit, the formal War On Drugs with the "scheduling" of drugs and creation of the DEA, while certainly not the first effort at supply-side drug control, or racist criminal policy, had a very stark impact on incarceration rates.  They didn't start to go up dramatically until the 80s, actually.  That's fairly well documented in a number of places.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

That's one hell of a leap to say people insist that people still want to call them negro.  I just said I don't understand why we are calling them African American when they are for the most part born American and have never been to Africa.  I mean black people is fine and not offensive.  

Why do Irish descendants identify as “Irish-American”. Or even just Irish?

[RomaVicta 30500]

9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

In the 1960s (not 1800s),the percentage of children born to African American single parent homes was approximately 23%. Something definitely changed in the system. 

This book was assigned in my macro economics course at UT back in the 70s. Professor Vrooman was fantastic and his assigned readings were and education far beyond the class topic. I think we had to choose four from a list of about 10. Good ol' BEB 150. Vrooman spoke without a mic.

It should be required reading again. It's fascinating, and I'm sure the examples he uses will be hauntingly familiar to anyone pointing at Chicago or hiding their racism behind statistical arguments that suggest blacks don't value family or life as much as the rest of us do. Fuck anybody who allows themselves to believe that.

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

13 minutes ago, stork642 said:

I think we can all agree that this seems very different compared to incidences of the past.  Everyone seems much more open to listen and try to come up with some serious solutions.  So now more than ever we need to have those civil discussions.  Not sure lists of demands will aid in those discussions.  

Change doesn’t happen in our country by asking nicely. If it did, the riots, protest, destruction would not be necessary. See Coal Miners Rebellion, Civil Rights Long Hot Summer riots, Stonewall Riots, etc, etc,. 
 

Now for some reason, the Floyd death has brought together the world in saying we need change, and now is the time to listen to them, they are telling you what needs to be changed at Texas. And your response is to rebuke their changes as being too demanding. They demand too much change from the whites. A couple of building names, a part of a stadium dedicated to the first black player, donations to charity, and a song. And the white fanbase is melting down over it. It is embarrassing and shameful to me this much of our fanbase lacks empathy 

[Apex73 313]

36 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Negged for intentional distortion of truth. BLM has led a brilliant, non-violent, inclusive national demonstration to address the issue of government violence against black people. You must produce evidence of BLM calling for the "killing of police." That doesn't mean a Breitbart story about one guy in the street. Show me that BLM calls for "killing police." 

I don't neg often. I always say why. It's overwhelmingly done in response to lies and disingenuous sophistry which is the same thing as a lie.

You're embracing a lie about BLM which the government is using to justify using force against the peaceful demonstrators. It's on video. Take a look. Your reach for this lie removes whatever atoms of credibility you had.

Peddle the hate and stupidity elsewhere. The US is already full up.

Go look at the videos from the protests a few years ago.  They have protesters screaming pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon.  And What do we want? Dead Cops!  When do we want them?  Now!  For Christ sake the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group a few years ago.  I was at the protest demonstration in Dallas when the sniper guy (who is unrelated to the movement) started unloading on cops and at that movement they were screaming similar things.  At the very least they incite violence.

[Alien Octopus 630]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Please list all the JDs who had risk of concussion, CTE, broken bones, etc. from studying.  If a JD tears his ACL, are they out of work for months during recovery?

are you one of the JDs with CTE? 

Nope, not any of the above. Football players know the risks of playing a violent game, and also reap the rewards. Some get the glory and some don’t. I really enjoy watching them play the game. They are lucky to be in the position to do what millions want to but can’t. That does not change the fact that they are people making choices so they can get paid. 

[mdleast 8491]

A: Surly posters arguing against change simply cuz they just want they old timey traditional song back (and refusing to acknowledge any others’ perspective on the subject)

 

B: Surly posters who have read this book:

 

 

C: Venn Diagram of A & B

 

 

 

[David Dennison 19441]

2 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

The rate of "fatherlessness" in the black community skyrocketed from the mid-1960s on. I guess we must have started singing the hell out of The Eyes of Texas at that point. 

After the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed, the preferred method of controlling black Americans (mainly black men) became the criminal justice system. Even the most minor infractions were used as a pretext to make black people in America criminals.

[927 E. 41st 1124]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The Eyes of Texas issue is a detail, a mere stitch in a disgraceful American quilt used to smother the black citizenry. So let's focus on the detail in order to defend the entire quilt from being, at last, shredded and burned. This tactic reveals the handful of posters on this thread for what they are. I'm actually glad you're revealed.

Nice job, you tried to remain "inclusive" while trying to paint me as something I'm not. I've been respectful of your views I would expect the same of you.

Back to the point, I don't see "the Eyes" the same way you do (not that you would like to be inclusive of my view). "A stick in a disgraceful quilt" clever, but untrue. And yes, I would gladly stop singing it if doing so would change anything or save a single life.

It won't, unhappy people will always be unhappy. Nothing you do will change that.

Rooster Andrews drew the logo and he gladly played on a segregated team. To me that seems equally as damning  as this gossamer thin case against "the eyes". BTW I fully support anyone that doesn't want to sing it for any reason. 

 

[Bottlecap 1523]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Of course, the blacks and their supporters in this protest are just manifesting hurt feelings. They need to be tough like the persons opposing them like to see themselves as being.

The Eyes of Texas issue is a detail, a mere stitch in a disgraceful American quilt used to smother the black citizenry. So let's focus on the detail in order to defend the entire quilt from being, at last, shredded and burned. This tactic reveals the handful of posters on this thread for what they are. I'm actually glad you're revealed.

Go back to the first page and read how this discussion began. I would like to keep the Eyes by finding common ground and consensus with my fellow students and alumni. I'm also willing to let the song be swept away if needed to bond us all together as Longhorns. 

"UT's former school song, The Eyes of Texas, was retired to remove a barrier between races at the University. During the BLM protests of 2020, The University of Texas played a lead role in conciliation by addressing a petition begun by a black student athlete. The University's approach became a model for other colleges in Texas and around the nation."

I'd be damn proud of that paragraph it were to become a part of our history. I'd miss the tradition. It's a small price to pay for what we might change.

This is awesome. Read it again.

[Apex73 313]

24 minutes ago, Snacks said:

 

 

 

 

 

You are correct. That is the biggest problem. You are suggesting we only solve the biggest problems and not the mentalities and the memorabilia that helped create that problem.

 

Black families were broken apart upon capture... Slaves were bred. Families (the initial community of anyone's life) were illegal. Slaves couldn't have families. For hundreds of years, family was limited to very few black people. However, killing of slaves and blacks has been legal, more or less, since before this country has been a country to today.

 

So, as you see, and I'm sure you already know, the value system that has failed the black Americans was intentionally created by white Americans.

 

We, the black coalition, would like to erase some of the heritage, teachings, and honoring of people who created the system that intended to leave us fatherless, uneducated, ignorant, and dead.

 

Are you being the devil's advocate or the devil? Put your stake in the ground or your head back in the ground.

 

I haven't read one example of any thoughts or ideas from you. All I've read is you denying the issues have existed for long or denying that the current system is actually a problem.

 

this isn't new. you're (acting) new.

 

Then you haven't really read what I said or interpreted it incorrectly.  I never said the system doesn't have problems in fact I said we needed to address those but the idea that systemic racism is the biggest problem facing the community I disagree with.  Btw you don't speak for all black people.  There are plenty of intelligent well spoken black people that agree with me too.  What mentalities still exist that is holding you back by in large?  And I don't mean the few racist individuals you can bring up.  I'm talking about actual legislation or laws that are racist with intent.  Show me that and I will agree.  

[ShowMeALoss 143]

2 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Nope, not any of the above. Football players know the risks of playing a violent game, and also reap the rewards. Some get the glory and some don’t. I really enjoy watching them play the game. They are lucky to be in the position to do what millions want to but can’t. That does not change the fact that they are people making choices so they can get paid. 

Most of them faced these choices growing up: deal drugs and live a life of crime or play football. They didn't hang out with their lawyer or investor uncle. They chose the best option available. These are the people who can get their generation out of poverty but not sure you want that.

[Alien Octopus 630]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Our criminal justice system has a lot to do with it.

Could be the sexual revolution. Could be a lot of things. Causality does not necessarily line up with historical events. I doubt the one parent homes tracks linearly with the theory presented earlier that Slavery built this culture. I doubt seriously that one parent households in the black community tracks to this very liberal/progressive/marxist script.  

[Apex73 313]

7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Why do Irish descendants identify as “Irish-American”. Or even just Irish?

They don't usually when you first meet them.  If you ask questions about their ancestry then they might.  Most people who are born in America and are generations removed from where there ancestors are from generally don't say they are German American, Irish American, etc

[TwiceHorn 31987]

16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure this is the answer, exactly, but there was a fascinating documentary on the Pruitt-Igoe Homes project in St. Louis.  It was one of the earlier projects and one of the first to fail and be demolished.

It had a policy that generally, two-parent families were not allowed (it didn't get much into the justification, just this fact).  It told stories of fathers being caught "sneaking in" and living with their families and the families being evicted from the home for this reason.

So it seems that the desire to confer aid on only the neediest families (single parent) created a disincentive for two-parent families.

EDIT:  Yes, the war on drugs and systematic incarceration of black males had an impact on families, without question.  However, the war on drugs didn't really commence until 1970 and the disintegration of the two-parent family preceded that.  I am pretty sure it commenced with the "welfare state" and the great society programs.  Not that the welfare state is wrong, per se, but it had some kind of bizarre unintended consequences.

Also, as @Catdaddyhorn would probably confirm, the creation of housing projects destroyed a lot of black communities that had formed naturally with churches and community support systems.  And while the projects may have temporarily improved living conditions, they artificially broke up and reassembled those "communities" in ways that didn't foster a beneficial community.

And then you also had the various social things of the 60s that began to emphasize the individual over community.  I have seen some things that point to this era as being really deleterious to a lot of things in society, to the deemphasis of society and the social contract altogether.

So it was kind of a culmination of things:  housing policy, welfare policy, social change, criminal/drug policy.

Edited June 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Even the most minor infractions were used as a pretext to make black people in America criminals.

whew, glad that didn't happen before those acts were passed

[Bash Riprock 1695]

I think The Cracker Barrel needs to change its name. I find it extremely offensive.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

They don't usually when you first meet them.  If you ask questions about their ancestry then they might.  Most people who are born in America and are generations removed from where there ancestors are from generally don't say they are German American, Irish American, etc

Huh? Are you kidding me? Irish descendentes LOVE to put out that they are Irish (they usually drop American altogether).

[Js1 86939]

11 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Why do Irish descendants identify as “Irish-American”. Or even just Irish?

I thought they just identify as “drunk?”

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, SwanderedTalent said:

whew, glad that didn't happen before those acts were passed

It did, but the criminal justice system wasn't as necessary when Jim Crow and voting restrictions were the order of the day.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Huh? Are you kidding me? Irish descendentes LOVE to put out that they are Irish (they usually drop American altogether).

Do this: stop for a second and ask yourself if you really think this argument you're having right now-- "how frequently Irish-Americans identify as such"-- on a Texas football board in a thread about whether or not a decades-old fight song is just too racist for black kids to have to sing-- is something that's going actually get settled, and whether it matter if it does.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

7 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Could be the sexual revolution. Could be a lot of things. Causality does not necessarily line up with historical events. I doubt the one parent homes tracks linearly with the theory presented earlier that Slavery built this culture. I doubt seriously that one parent households in the black community tracks to this very liberal/progressive/marxist script.  

Bah.  This is bullshit.

Do we not, as a society, have an obligation to take care of our lowest?  That is not socialism, that is humanity and being a responsible country.  It's no answer to say the market gives them opportunity, they just need to bootstrap themselves.  That's abdication of responsibility.

Have we made huge errors in our ways of dealing with the lowest?  Absolutely no doubt about it.  And a source of those errors is this idiotic fear of socialism.

The answer is not to eliminate "welfare" or make it harder to get.  It is an absolute necessity.  It does need a wholesale re-thinking though.

Edited June 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[SquishMitten 10493]

1 hour ago, Not a cat said:

I'm no expert on NCAA rules but if this was legal to do, every rich school would have already done it.  Think of the recruiting advantage you'd have with a de facto "pension" plan in place.

Nothing really preventing it though. Every former athlete could be hired to the Ministry of Culture under McConaughey

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

9 minutes ago, Bottlecap said:

This is awesome. Read it again.

It’s odd that something that unites the school, students, alumni and staff will be removed and surely create a large division of these same groups and would be billed as “progress”

[Apex73 313]

8 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Huh? Are you kidding me? Irish descendentes LOVE to put out that they are Irish (they usually drop American altogether).

Not in my experience if they are generations removed but Im willing to take your word for it if you have had a different experience.  Still that's one country out of a ton so its kind of a moot point.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It did, but the criminal justice system wasn't as necessary when Jim Crow and voting restrictions were the order of the day.

no shortage of ways to explain things away, that's for sure

Edited June 14, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Do this: stop for a second and ask yourself if you really think this argument you're having right now-- "how frequently Irish-Americans identify as such"-- on a Texas football board in a thread about whether or not a decades-old fight song is just too racist for black kids to have to sing-- is something that's going actually get settled, and whether it matter if it does.

I never said it would be settled. Font be obtuse. The whole “African American” thing got brought up multiple times, so I offered a valid counterpoint.

And since you want to put your head in the sand about all kinds of things:

https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=uclf

[stork642 4511]

23 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Change doesn’t happen in our country by asking nicely. If it did, the riots, protest, destruction would not be necessary. See Coal Miners Rebellion, Civil Rights Long Hot Summer riots, Stonewall Riots, etc, etc,. 
 

Now for some reason, the Floyd death has brought together the world in saying we need change, and now is the time to listen to them, they are telling you what needs to be changed at Texas. And your response is to rebuke their changes as being too demanding. They demand too much change from the whites. A couple of building names, a part of a stadium dedicated to the first black player, donations to charity, and a song. And the white fanbase is melting down over it. It is embarrassing and shameful to me this much of our fanbase lacks empathy 

I think people are absolutely listening like maybe never before.  I don’t have a dispute with the list except for the Eyes because I question how getting rid of it truly affects meaningful change for better.  Change for change sake is not change for the better.  My other question would be if everything on the list is agreed on and done how does that help eradicate police brutality against African Americans?  Isn’t that what we are taking about?  When this unfortunately happens again, and it will, what will the next list of demands be and will those have a true positive affect on ridding our nation of racism and police brutality?  If I thought these things would really help rid us of these terrible atrocities I would say absolutely let’s do it but these seem very symbolic and without true measures we will be in the same place when this happens again.  But I understand it’s much easier to change the name of a building or change a song than to come up with real solutions.  But the former makes everyone feel like something is getting done but is it helping to actually solve the problem?

Edited June 14, 2020 by stork642

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

And since you want to put your head in the sand

what the fuck are you talking about? I tried to show you how pointless the argument about "NUH UH, IRISH PEOPLE DO SO SAY THEY'RE IRISH" was. Not the example itself, literally the idea that you and Apex are going to do anything but go back and forth on it with "I know a guy" stories.

rabbit hole, dude

Edited June 14, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[Not a cat 5804]

2 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Nothing really preventing it though. Every former athlete could be hired to the Ministry of Culture under McConaughey

I think that if you formalized it or made it a common practice, it would be a problem.  Come to Texas and if you don't go pro we have a guaranteed 80k a year job for you after you use up your eligibility.  I could see the NCAA caring about that as a recruiting advantage.  If it's legal then we should already be doing it, just as a recruiting tool.

[Telegraph_it 3376]

Are we trying to bestow the “privilege” white people enjoy to others by cancelling The Eyes? 

Ideally I think we want to make sure everyone enjoys the rights that many of us take for granted. It has been mentioned in posts above that many of the athletes come from a negative position in life relative to white people and that need be fixed. 
 

I’m not sure how removing a song will do that. 

[Alien Octopus 630]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Bah.  This is bullshit.

Do we not, as a society, have an obligation to take care of our lowest?  That is not socialism, that is humanity and being a responsible country.  It's no answer to say the market gives them opportunity, they just need to bootstrap themselves.  That's abdication of responsibility.

Have we made huge errors in our ways of dealing with the lowest?  Absolutely no doubt about it.  And a source of those errors is this idiotic fear of socialism.

Spoken like someone who never suffered the consequences of idiotic socialism. Suggesting that the black community is the lowest is racist, it is the same argument used to justify slavery. Since my family lost everything to socialism/communism I have a perspective that may not line up with yours but it is likely more valid, as it is anchored in fact and not theory. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

The rate of "fatherlessness" in the black community skyrocketed from the mid-1960s on. I guess we must have started singing the hell out of The Eyes of Texas at that point. 

I provided a link that was a response to your comments. Doesn’t surprise me that you don’t care to understand some of the reasons.

[Bevo14 8468]

16 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Then you haven't really read what I said or interpreted it incorrectly.  I never said the system doesn't have problems in fact I said we needed to address those but the idea that systemic racism is the biggest problem facing the community I disagree with.  Btw you don't speak for all black people.  There are plenty of intelligent well spoken black people that agree with me too.  What mentalities still exist that is holding you back by in large?  And I don't mean the few racist individuals you can bring up.  I'm talking about actual legislation or laws that are racist with intent.  Show me that and I will agree.  

Did you really just use that meme in an unironic way?

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I provided a link that was a response to your comments. Doesn’t surprise me that you don’t care to understand some of the reasons.

reasons for arguing about Irish-Americans self-identifying? your response to me saying "Irish self identification is an asinine sidebar" is "DERP here's an article on it"....?