Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

3 hours ago, Stannis said:

I've seen this opinion expressed a number of times on this website since the Floyd murder - the idea that violent rioting is the only way to effect change in this country.  It ignores a long history of Supreme Court equal protection and due process cases expanding and affirming the rights of black Americans in the context of voting, marriage, housing, education, criminal justice, and more.

As far as I know, in none of the below cases was the majority opinion driven by violent riots.  Rather, the rule of law embedded in our Constitution guided the important changes that came from:

Powell v. Alabama (1932) (affirming the right to counsel in criminal prosecutions brought by a state in the context of black men accused of raping white women)

Smith v. Allwright (1944) (extending voting rights protection in the context of all-white primary elections)

Shelley v. Kraemer (1948) (prohibiting racially restrictive housing covenants)

Sweatt v. Painter (1950) (overturning "separate but equal" and laying the foundation for Brown v. Board of Education)

Terry v. Adams (1953) (holding that racial discrimination in primary elections is unconstitutional)

Brown v. Board of Education (1954) (holding that racial segregation in public schools is unconstitutional)

Bolling v. Sharpe (1954) (ending public school segregation in the District of Columbia)

NAACP v. Alabama (1958) (protecting the NAACP from unconstitutional subpoenas issued by the state)

Boynton v. Virginia (1960) (holding that racial discrimination in public transportation is illegal)

Edwards v. South Carolina (1963) (affirming the right of Americans to peacefully assemble and protest - here in the context of racial civil rights)

Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States (1964) (extending the Commerce Clause to provide protection to interstate travelers against racial discrimination in lodging)

Evans v. Newton (1966) (expanding equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment to public parks)

Loving v. Virginia (1967) (striking down laws banning interracial marriage)

 

 

The 1968 Civil Rights act was a direct reaction to 6 days of rioting following the assassination of MLK. 

[Alien Octopus 506]

23 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

So are you saying the next time a white person is unjustly murdered by police, people should not protest it because the vast majority of white people are killed by white people and they should focus on that instead? That's what you're implying.

No I am saying that protests only happen when black people are killed by white cops. BLM does not protest when Black people are killed by black people which is a disproportionate amount of black deaths. This is race baiting. But thanks for the effort.

[The Dog 43858]

The 1968 Civil Rights act was a direct reaction to 6 days of rioting following the assassination of MLK. 

100% inaccurate - it passed the House nearly a year before MLK’s death.

[RomaVicta 29825]

3 hours ago, Apex73 said:

Well I guess you just have me all figured out huh?  Lol.  Sounds like you cherrypicked the data to support your narrative.  I guess It just clears it up because they said we don't advocate violence after 5 cops were killed.  We should just believe that.  And just because the sniper said he had no affiliation with the BLM group doesn't mean he didn't.  And just because black lives matter makes a statement saying they don't support that doesn't mean they don't.  I guess you would believe David Duke if he said he fully supported black rights.  Not saying he did but I'm not saying he didn't either.  I have the videos of the blm protest chants that incite violence but I can't figure out how to link them to here.  They are out there though.  AlI you have to do is type in black lives matter chants.  I agree that I was wrong when I said the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group. Saw that on a video without properly fact checking it.  I will give you one example of and in depth conversation Ive had with friend of mine who is black.  He shares the same points of view as me.  The only point of contention is he believes if there is an argument for systemic racism it would be how the schooling system works which I don't 100 percent disagree with that either. I'm not like trying to draw a line in the sand and say none of these concerns are valid. I'm saying theres a middle ground between the extremes and those are the people who seem to properly communicate.  The idea that you can equate anything Ive said to white supremacy is laughable at best.  Get off your moral high ground and please fall on your own sword of self righteousness.

 

 

 

Just read enough blather to see you don't recognize that your every point was refuted with embarrassing ease. You just storm away. If this works with your friends (of which I'm sure you have many), you need to find smarter friends.

[RomaVicta 29825]

2 hours ago, 927 E. 41st said:

Roma, I made no such declaration. I actually did the opposite. I said I would never sing it again if it would make any difference. And by that I mean a real substantive difference. It is unfortunate that, the guys who put this forward have hurt their case for things that actually would make a difference. My perspective is, that either way this goes, the net result toward any real progress is zero. 

Again, I respect your opinion, but I never said that.

I disagree, but I appreciate your civility. Thanks.

[Apex73 313]

15 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Black lives matter was created for the expressed purpose and goal of bringing attention to police brutality (not just police murders) and injustice within the criminal justice system. You, along with most white people, don’t know shit about what goes on within the confines of the black community. You don’t know what’s discussed in black churches, black civic groups, black fraternal organizations, black barbershops, or just among black friends. News of stop the violence campaigns rarely get reported or discussed in mainstream media. I can guarantee you if you went to Facebook and searched you’d get more hits for stop the violence campaigns than black lives matter.  Your ignorance of this fact doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  The idea you can't have an opinion that differs from yours on black lives matter automatically means you are ignorant, insensitive, and don't care about black lives is nonsense. 

[Apex73 313]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

Just read enough blather to see you don't recognize that your every point was refuted with embarrassing ease. You just storm away. If this works with your friends (of which I'm sure you have many), you need to find smarter friends.

You need to get laid.

[Michael Knight 12911]

11 minutes ago, The Dog said:

100% inaccurate - it passed the House nearly a year before MLK’s death.

Maybe read a little more beyond just dates

[RomaVicta 29825]

1 hour ago, Alien Octopus said:

Black Lives Matter , protests and so forth ignore the majority of violent black lives ended. They practice in race baiting And police bashing, especially around election years so as to effect the vote.  Clear enough?

Negged for ignorance and misrepresentation. BLM doesn't stand for anything you simply decide they stand for because your feathers are ruffled.

Their name isn't Black Lives Matter More. Their name means Black Lives Matter as much as anyone else's. Not to see why that point may need to be made or, worse , endeavoring to see that that simple sentiment is distorted is basically wicked.

Black Pride wasn't an effort to argue the ascendancy of the black race. It was to ameliorate the sentiment among blacks that they were inferior. Most blacks wished that they were white back then. These sentiments were/are the result of centuries of the majority disposition towards these people now equal citizens.

Black lives are different because of history and because of today. Failing to open your mind to that is to promote an unacceptable status quo. BLM offers a peaceful, smart way to find the right path. Seize it, don't reject it. 

[RomaVicta 29825]

2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

You need to get laid.

You'll have to buy me dinner. You'll also need to take a shower and bring proof you don't have the covid.

[Serak The Preparer 3430]

31 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I feel like a lot of this discussion has been blown out of proportion so to clear up any misconceptions.....

 

3.  I really don't care if the players and students want to take down the statues or rename the buildings.  It's just not really going to accomplish anything and I don't really think its gonna make anyone feel better but whatever.  I think changing the song is asking for a lot.  That's where it becomes a witch hunt in my opinion.  

4.  The idea that if you don''t agree with some of the aspects that are going on makes you a bad person is not the way to handle this.  We have a lot of people on this site that are pandering because of a ridiculous sense of white guilt.  The implication is that if you don't agree with what the kids want right now then you don't care about them or black lives.  This is an absurd notion.  So if I don't agree with what they want then I must think the way things are currently are perfect and no need for change. That's also an absurd contention.  But this performative "woke" virtue signaling from white people who are taking on sins that were not theirs so as to take the sins of a broader group of people who are not them.   Meaning when you a performative woke liberal and they say "Im taking on the sins of my ancestors" really means "Im not taking on the sins of my ancestors all the other white people who don't agree with me are taking on the sins of the ancestors."  That's what's troubling.

 

Clipping to address what I think is a real issue. I will ask you the same thing that I asked @HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats (and which they refuse to answer for some reason). Why are you convinced that you know what the result of these actions will be. You have a group of students and athletes looking for a change (presumably something that will make them feel better) and you are saying they are wrong. How can you know their minds and expectations better than they do?

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think disagreement about the next step indicates racism. But I do think that assuming you know how a group feels without even talking to them comes pretty darn close. Not in the "n-word" or denying an apartment level, but definitely in the "I know more that that group does" level. It is not white guilt or "wokeness" to say "I hear what you are saying. You have a voice", especially when that voice has not previously been heard. 

[The Dog 43858]

Maybe read a little more beyond just dates

That’s not what he said.

 

LBJ signed it and pressured congress to present the final bill to sign in the aftermath of MLK’s death, but the assertion that the existence of the law was a direct result of the riots is wrong. It had broad bipartisan supporting before that and was going to become law.

[RomaVicta 29825]

15 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

No I am saying that protests only happen when black people are killed by white cops. BLM does not protest when Black people are killed by black people which is a disproportionate amount of black deaths. This is race baiting. But thanks for the effort.

The NCAA should fine European Soccer Players for wife beating. The United Nations should send peace keeping forces to football games. The Supreme Court should decide the Miss America Pageant.

Or maybe organizations should stay true to their goals.

Your point is stupid. Now Apex can blow another vein making just slightly more sense than you do.

[Alien Octopus 506]

32 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Black lives matter was created for the expressed purpose and goal of bringing attention to police brutality (not just police murders) and injustice within the criminal justice system. You, along with most white people, don’t know shit about what goes on within the confines of the black community. You don’t know what’s discussed in black churches, black civic groups, black fraternal organizations, black barbershops, or just among black friends. News of stop the violence campaigns rarely get reported or discussed in mainstream media. I can guarantee you if you went to Facebook and searched you’d get more hits for stop the violence campaigns than black lives matter.  Your ignorance of this fact doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 

Meh, my ignorance to a lot of things does not mean it does not exist. I wish, I knew everything and even better, that what I knew was the only thing that I existed.

 

Even so,  I do know that BLM only points out and promotes what conveniences their agenda. That agenda has shown itself to be an agenda of division where the only black lives protested are those of black people being taken by law enforcement officers. I don’t Facebook so I’ll take your word for it.

[OU Sucks 8751]

7 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

No I am saying that protests only happen when black people are killed by white cops. BLM does not protest when Black people are killed by black people which is a disproportionate amount of black deaths. This is race baiting. But thanks for the effort.

Because BLM focuses on police brutality and the system being slanted against blacks, dude! Blacks killing the overwhelming majority of blacks has nothing to do with it, just as whites killing the vast majority of whites has nothing to do with anything whites want to protest against. But thanks for the effort.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

2 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Clipping to address what I think is a real issue. I will ask you the same thing that I asked @HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats (and which they refuse to answer for some reason). Why are you convinced that you know what the result of these actions will be. You have a group of students and athletes looking for a change (presumably something that will make them feel better) and you are saying they are wrong. How can you know their minds and expectations better than they do?

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think disagreement about the next step indicates racism. But I do think that assuming you know how a group feels without even talking to them comes pretty darn close. Not in the "n-word" or denying an apartment level, but definitely in the "I know more that that group does" level. It is not white guilt or "wokeness" to say "I hear what you are saying. You have a voice", especially when that voice has not previously been heard. 

I'll ask you this. I was responding to a post that said its amazing the change these athletes can accomplish with the power they hold or something to that effect. What makes you so sure these symbolic changes will really make a difference. I'm not arguing these changes shouldn't happen, there should be no statues of racists or buildings named after racists on campus. My argument is it's not going to bring about significant change in the long run. My question is how far is everyone willing to go. Is Red McCombs next on the hit list for saying Charlie Strong would only make a good coordinator at UT, he's not head coach material. There was a lot of racism claims thrown at Red around here or Shaggy I guess. No one will dare say anything before he kicks the bucket, gotta get some of his $$$ when he goes.

[Burt Macklin 19000]

46 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I really don't care if the players and students want to take down the statues or rename the buildings.  It's just not really going to accomplish anything and I don't really think its gonna make anyone feel better but whatever.

Lulz. This is why people don’t respect your position. You say it won’t do anything or make anyone feel better, but what you really mean is it just doesn’t matter to you. 
 

You really can’t figure out how black students would feel better, more welcome, and actually equal as human beings if buildings, statues, monuments, etc. on their campus were no longer named or established to honor people who were openly in support of and did own black people and considered them less than human? 

[Mole 4320]

Here’s something that I don’t understand. Last year, I took part in a cancer research walk-a-thon. At the end, I started asking why they weren’t donating their money to heart disease research. Things got heated and I lost all of my friends. Don’t these people care about heart disease? All diseases matter.

[Serak The Preparer 3430]

2 minutes ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

I'll ask you this. I was responding to a post that said its amazing the change these athletes can accomplish with the power they hold or something to that effect. What makes you so sure these symbolic changes will really make a difference. I'm not arguing these changes shouldn't happen, there should be no statues of racists or buildings named after racists on campus. My argument is it's not going to bring about significant change in the long run. My question is how far is everyone willing to go. Is Red McCombs next on the hit list for saying Charlie Strong would only make a good coordinator at UT, he's not head coach material. There was a lot of racism claims thrown at Red around here or Shaggy I guess. No one will dare say anything before he kicks the bucket, gotta get some of his $$$ when he goes.

I will answer you, as I answered the question you asked me in your previous reply. It's simple: I don't know that. I am not proclaiming that this will solve any issues at all. However, I do think that we should listen and even take people at their word when they say something bothers them. Not even saying we have to take action, but at least believe them.

Now will you answer the question I have asked over and over? Why are you sure that the present situation DOESN"T bother them, especially when they have said it does? That was your claim, that you knew their minds and feelings.

[Gatorubet 30139]

18 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Meh, my ignorance to a lot of things does not mean it does not exist. I wish, I knew everything and even better, that what I knew was the only thing that I existed.

Even so,  I do know that BLM only points out and promotes what conveniences their agenda. That agenda has shown itself to be an agenda of division where the only black lives protested are those of black people being taken by law enforcement officers. I don’t Facebook so I’ll take your word for it.

Sorta funny. 

[Apex73 313]

19 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Clipping to address what I think is a real issue. I will ask you the same thing that I asked @HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats (and which they refuse to answer for some reason). Why are you convinced that you know what the result of these actions will be. You have a group of students and athletes looking for a change (presumably something that will make them feel better) and you are saying they are wrong. How can you know their minds and expectations better than they do?

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think disagreement about the next step indicates racism. But I do think that assuming you know how a group feels without even talking to them comes pretty darn close. Not in the "n-word" or denying an apartment level, but definitely in the "I know more that that group does" level. It is not white guilt or "wokeness" to say "I hear what you are saying. You have a voice", especially when that voice has not previously been heard. 

I would say you can say "I can hear what you're saying" and still not agree with the demands completely.  In a sense you're right.  I have no idea what their minds are like.  Im sure it even differs amongst them. In the same way, you don't know what my mind or the other posters you mentioned are like 100 percent.  I already said earlier I think they will walk away from this thinking they did a good job while not really accomplishing much in the bigger picture.  It sets up a weird precedent where every time something happens that's bad you run in with a list of demands on the University to make change even though the University didn't have anything to do with the crime.  And if you disagree with the demands then you apparently don't care about the players which is absurd.  

[Apex73 313]

14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Lulz. This is why people don’t respect your position. You say it won’t do anything or make anyone feel better, but what you really mean is it just doesn’t matter to you. 
 

You really can’t figure out how black students would feel better, more welcome, and actually equal as human beings if buildings, statues, monuments, etc. on their campus were no longer named or established to honor people who were openly in support of and did own black people and considered them less than human? 

These in particular, didn't seem to bother them until recently.  In the long run ask yourself what is this really going to achieve?  I think that's a perfectly reasonable question to ask about this.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticize it for being trivial.  But if they want to tear them down because it will momentarily make them feel better than so be it.  I predict it will not have a long lasting effect and something else will be demanded in the near future.

[Gatorubet 30139]

15 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

You really can’t figure out how black students would feel better, more welcome, and actually equal as human beings if buildings, statues, monuments, etc. on their campus were no longer named or established to honor people who were openly in support of and did own black people and considered them less than human? 

FWIW, maybe Texas lost some of the right to bitch about the song complaints when you left a building named after a guy so racist he would not teach black students unchanged until 2020 - when they complained?  Just maybe you forfeited some shit when that happened - like the right to push back as hard on other examples - like the song.   Had you been addressing the other clearly egregious issues earlier, you might have more moral authority to push back on The Eyes issue.  But you didn't.   Maybe this is -  I dunno - more like having to take personal responsibility for doing some undeniably bad shit in the past and failing to correct it till now - even if the consequence of that delay is way more uncomfortable than you'd like.  Or even more uncomfortable than it deserves.   Consequences are not always equal to the original injury.

I know, Gator, not my fight song, blah blah.  Just a thought I had after reading ten pages of this.

[Serak The Preparer 3430]

12 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I would say you can say "I can hear what you're saying" and still not agree with the demands completely.  In a sense you're right.  I have no idea what their minds are like.  Im sure it even differs amongst them. In the same way, you don't know what my mind or the other posters you mentioned are like 100 percent.  I already said earlier I think they will walk away from this thinking they did a good job while not really accomplishing much in the bigger picture.  It sets up a weird precedent where every time something happens that's bad you run in with a list of demands on the University to make change even though the University didn't have anything to do with the crime.  And if you disagree with the demands then you apparently don't care about the players which is absurd.  

Oh for crying out loud, of course I do not know your mind, or others. I have not claimed to, and explicitly said that I don't. It's like this concept is foreign to you.

You are the one who has, however, by saying this will not make them feel better. Why do you think that? In the post below this you say this is trivial. How can you say what is trivial to someone else, particularly when they have specifically said that this is not trivial but has caused and continues to cause hurt? That is the arrogance that just blows my mind.

And I do agree with you that you do not necessarily have to agree on actions or next step but dismissal comes from a weird place to me.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

23 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I will answer you, as I answered the question you asked me in your previous reply. It's simple: I don't know that. I am not proclaiming that this will solve any issues at all. However, I do think that we should listen and even take people at their word when they say something bothers them. Not even saying we have to take action, but at least believe them.

Now will you answer the question I have asked over and over? Why are you sure that the present situation DOESN"T bother them, especially when they have said it does? That was your claim, that you knew their minds and feelings.

I believe I stated I don't believe the majority of students of all races on campus have no idea who most of these buildings are named after. Pretty simple. As I said in another post, change all the names and remove the statues, but I don't believe in donating to BLM or any group.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

58 minutes ago, The Dog said:

100% inaccurate - it passed the House nearly a year before MLK’s death.

Yet languished in the senate for said year and was finally passed and became law 7 days after his death. On April 11th 1968.

[Apex73 313]

7 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Oh for crying out loud, of course I do not know your mind, or others. I have not claimed to, and explicitly said that I don't. It's like this concept is foreign to you.

You are the one who has, however, by saying this will not make them feel better. Why do you think that? In the post below this you say this is trivial. How can you say what is trivial to someone else, particularly when they have specifically said that this is not trivial but has caused and continues to cause hurt? That is the arrogance that just blows my mind.

And I do agree with you that you do not necessarily have to agree on actions or next step but dismissal comes from a weird place to me.

You hear what you want to hear and take what I say out of context.  Iv'e explained why I think it won't make a difference long term.  You clearly disagree.  That doesn't mean Im dismissing them or I don't care what they think.  Do you have any idea how to use nuance?  It's just my opinion. If you think it's a stupid opinion then that's fine.  I really don't care.  But that doesn't mean Im dismissive of the players concerns.

[What? 13]

23 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

These in particular, didn't seem to bother them until recently.  

 

Do you mean to say that YOU only just recently found out that this has been an issue for minority students at UT?  Here's an article from 2009 which has already been posted, but you continue to ignore:  https://abcnews.go.com/OnCampus/story?id=7160813&page=1.  There are plenty of other examples from current and former players.  Also,  UT students have definitely questioned and protested the naming of buildings after racists and presence of Confederate statues and monuments on campus for decades, but of course, since you have no personal knowledge of it, it must not exist.

Edited June 14, 2020 by What?

[Apex73 313]

1 minute ago, What? said:

Do you mean to say that YOU only just recently found out that this has been an issue for minority students at UT?  Here's an article from 2009 which has already been posted, but you continue to ignore:  https://abcnews.go.com/OnCampus/story?id=7160813&page=1.  There are plenty of other examples from current and former players.

In that same it article the person they interviewed said they were shocked by the history of the songs origins but did not feel discriminated against and felt it did not impact anyone negatively in any way.  You are reaching.  Mining for morality points.  You make me sick.

[Alien Octopus 506]

18 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Negged for ignorance and misrepresentation. BLM doesn't stand for anything you simply decide they stand for because your feathers are ruffled.

Their name isn't Black Lives Matter More. Their name means Black Lives Matter as much as anyone else's. Not to see why that point may need to be made or, worse , endeavoring to see that that simple sentiment is distorted is basically wicked.

Black Pride wasn't an effort to argue the ascendancy of the black race. It was to ameliorate the sentiment among blacks that they were inferior. Most blacks wished that they were white back then. These sentiments were/are the result of centuries of the majority disposition towards these people now equal citizens.

Black lives are different because of history and because of today. Failing to open your mind to that is to promote an unacceptable status quo. BLM offers a peaceful, smart way to find the right path. Seize it, don't reject it. 

I should neg you for lobbing insults and telling me your way is the right way because you know more. You say what you want to be heard but it is not grounded in fact.

I do not see this partisan organization operating in a way that does anything positive for the black community. Besides that, the script that blacks are unjustly targeted, killed, or otherwise being eradicated by police, white or black, is not true. Stats say otherwise. 

Stats don’t say what you think or what you want,  they say what they say.  

This is a poverty issue, not a race issue. BLM promotes this as a black/white issue and does so for political purposed every four years, which I find evil.

[pacman 7332]

1 hour ago, Alien Octopus said:

 I do know that BLM only points out and promotes what conveniences their agenda.

Wait, an organization promotes an agenda that supports their expressed charter?

Groundbreaking shit their bud.

 

On the topic of division, I agree the name itself creates that (because everybody is so defensive which is not their fault) but I also think there is no playbook for working to unravel 400 years of injustice and mistreatment.

Edited June 14, 2020 by pacman

[Neonmoon 38127]

25 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

These in particular, didn't seem to bother them until recently.  In the long run ask yourself what is this really going to achieve?  I think that's a perfectly reasonable question to ask about this.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticize it for being trivial.  But if they want to tear them down because it will momentarily make them feel better than so be it.  I predict it will not have a long lasting effect and something else will be demanded in the near future.

This is not true. Players from the team have said it has bothered them in the past. There have been multiple news reports referenced in this thread showing how it was pointed out in the past but no one gave a shit. Again, you just refuse to acknowledge these facts because it does not fit your narrative. 
 

The rest of your post is more ignoring their point of view because it’s not your point of view, therefore it won’t achieve shit TO YOU. And since you have an opinion, you believe it should be given the same weight at the players opinion. 

 

[What? 13]

7 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

In that same it article the person they interviewed said they were shocked by the history of the songs origins but did not feel discriminated against and felt it did not impact anyone negatively in any way.  You are reaching.  Mining for morality points.  You make me sick.

I'm not "reaching," it's right there in the article.  Try fucking reading it : 

T.J. Finley, who graduated from UT with a bachelor's degree in kinesiology in the spring, stopped singing UT's iconic alma mater completely after being told that the song was first performed by students wearing blackface makeup in a turn-of-the-century minstrel show.

"At first, I was just so shocked that something like this could still exist," said Finley, a graduate student at the Duke University School of Law.

They interviewed multiple people, some who were uncomfortable, some who weren't.  The issue is that you claim that this is only now an issue, when clearly it predates the current situation and invalidates your claim on this point.

Edited June 14, 2020 by What?

[Lhorn 4890]

Do you mean to say that YOU only just recently found out that this has been an issue for minority students at UT?  Here's an article from 2009 which has already been posted, but you continue to ignore:  https://abcnews.go.com/OnCampus/story?id=7160813&page=1.  There are plenty of other examples from current and former players.  Also,  UT students have definitely questioned and protested the naming of buildings after racists and presence of Confederate statues and monuments on campus for decades, but of course, since you have no personal knowledge of it, it must not exist.

He didn’t know about it so he’s a bad guy, but you knew it was considered horribly racist by some and sang it anyway 6 months ago?

 

Let’s not any of us get too judgy.

[Alien Octopus 506]

3 minutes ago, pacman said:

Wait, an organization promotes an agenda that supports their expressed charter?

Groundbreaking shit their bud.

Thanks Pacman, to put it in Surly terms, their name does not checkout. A point I have made too many times here. Agreed not ground breaking.

[mdmost 42880]

41 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

These in particular, didn't seem to bother them until recently.

You simply do not know this. You are assuming this because you think these players are being used by SJWs, BLM, and other nefarious groups you do not like. What may be more likely is some of the actually did know about this but never felt they had a platform to speak out about it lest they be chastised or lose their spot on the team. Look right at Kaepernick as why they might not have spoke out before. Then George Floyd happens and Herman encourages them to get active and speak out. Or maybe none of them knew about it and after recently learning about it, they have decided to use their high profile platform to speak up about it because it's something they could realistically work on and change to make the University a more welcoming place for everyone. I don't know. You don't know. Maybe we should let the players speak and hear what they have to say. 
 

Edited June 14, 2020 by mdmost

[3shot 139]

24 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

FWIW, maybe Texas lost some of the right to bitch about the song complaints when you left a building named after a guy so racist he would not teach black students unchanged until 2020 - when they complained?  Just maybe you forfeited some shit when that happened - like the right to push back as hard on other examples - like the song.   Had you been addressing the other clearly egregious issues earlier, you might have more moral authority to push back on The Eyes issue.  But you didn't.   Maybe this is -  I dunno - more like having to take personal responsibility for doing some undeniably bad shit in the past and failing to correct it till now - even if the consequence of that delay is way more uncomfortable than you'd like.  Or even more uncomfortable than it deserves.   Consequences are not always equal to the original injury.

I know, Gator, not my fight song, blah blah.  Just a thought I had after reading ten pages of this.

This is fucking rich, coming from a Florida Gator.  Get your own house in order before you weigh in on ours, you self righteous prick.

Racism is horrible, please brutality is horrible. 

The University of Texas is not a perfect place, and it certainly has some uncomfortable history, but as a whole, there is no finer public university in the United States, warts and all.  Our history is more than our failures.  Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail on the Eyes, once everyone has had a chance to be heard on the subject.

[Neonmoon 38127]

1 minute ago, Lhorn said:

He didn’t know about it so he’s a bad guy, but you knew it was considered horribly racist by some and sang it anyway 6 months ago?

Let’s in any of us get too judgy.

I’m starting to realize some people, like yourself, have limited reading comprehension skills. Apex said it wasn’t an issue until recently. The articles proving it has been an issue were posted to say it wasn’t an issue to Apex, but clearly was since there were news reports ,meaning it has been brought up before, disapproving the claim made by Apex. No one said he was a bad guy for not knowing. Because no one really dug into the history of the song, or heard how it affected black people. 

 

[What? 13]

3 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

He didn’t know about it so he’s a bad guy, but you knew it was considered horribly racist by some and sang it anyway 6 months ago?

Let’s in any of us get too judgy.

Where did I say he's a bad guy?  I said there is considerable evidence that this was an issue long before there was even such a thing as BLM and provided an example, a fact which he has continually denied, simply because HE had not heard of the phenomenon.  The sense of entitlement is staggering.  Perhaps you should just go holler minstrel songs at the players during the next home game.  I'm sure that will go over real well, because turdition.  I'm sure they will understand.  

[VoteforHank 117]

Players should think bigger and go after the entire NCAA. 

[Lhorn 4890]

I’m starting to realize some people, like yourself, have limited reading comprehension skills. Apex said it wasn’t an issue until recently. The articles proving it has been an issue were posted to say it wasn’t an issue to Apex, but clearly was since there were news reports ,meaning it has been brought up before, disapproving the claim made by Apex. No one said he was a bad guy for not knowing. Because no one really dug into the history of the song, or heard how it affected black people. 
 

Ah reading comprehension smack from you? That’s rich.
My comment was was based on what’s surprise that the other guy didn’t know there was an issue. Whether Apex said it wasn’t an issue or not until recently I don’t know but What was referencing that he was ignorant to the fact it was an issue.


I wasn’t aware either to be honest. Not everyone follows every single issue that affects the University. I live in California and much of my knowledge about what goes on at the University comes from this message board. Issues and threads come and go without my knowledge because I sometimes go weeks without checking in. I go to this length to explain this to you because I suspect you are not going to be honest and feign shock that some people aren’t aware of this issue which people being up from 2009. You honestly believe every person knew this was an issue?

[Lhorn 4890]

Where did I say he's a bad guy?  I said there is considerable evidence that this was an issue long before there was even such a thing as BLM and provided an example, a fact which he has continually denied, simply because HE had not heard of the phenomenon.  The sense of entitlement is staggering.  Perhaps you should just go holler minstrel songs at the players during the next home game.  I'm sure that will go over real well, because turdition.  I'm sure they will understand.  

Lol. You sang it too hypocrite

[What? 13]

2 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

Lol. You sang it too hypocrite

Ummm, no.  I've never sung the song, not because of any racial connotations, but because I think it's a dumb song.

[Lhorn 4890]

Ummm, no.  I've never sung the song, not because of any racial connotations, but because I think it's a dumb song.

Fair enough. I withdraw my hypocrite comment.

[Gatorubet 30139]

34 minutes ago, 3shot said:

This is fucking rich, coming from a Florida Gator.  Get your own house in order before you weigh in on ours, you self righteous prick.

Racism is horrible, please brutality is horrible. 

Quote

The University of Texas is not a perfect place, and it certainly has some uncomfortable history, but as a whole, there is no finer public university in the United States, warts and all.  Our history is more than our failures. 

 

Quote

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail on the Eyes, once everyone has had a chance to be heard on the subject.

First quote -  meh. 

Second quote, you are defending accusations I never made.  UT is indeed a well respected public university.  That, however, is not really the topic of this thread.  

Third quote I totally agree with.  My post was me trying to look at it from the student athletes perspective.  I can see them thinking about why it took so long to redress the other non-debatable wrongs - and thinking that maybe having to put up with that while you did nothing about it for so long would give them some extra juice on this issue.  If that upsets you , so be it.    This country needs to talk about how symbols and songs can stand for more than one thing.  But we also need to accept that once a thing is universally recognized as racist, it does not matter if your use is meant as racist or not.   Once it is branded, it needs to be scrapped.  I hope you come together and discuss it - and come out with something like a joint declaration of what The Eyes SHOULD mean to ALL Texas grads from now on - one that everyone can sign on.   Like a Longhorn Manifesto that rebukes past wrongs and speaks to the concerns of the athletes, maybe one that declares that The Eyes is also a demand for racial and other justice, a call for UT's sons and daughters to be the best they can be, a call to virtue and kindness and equality... 

Because it is impossible (IMO) for the University and its alums to hold two views on this going forward.  It won't be healthy for the University, and that disagreement would push the administration more toward a ban.    I hope you can come to an agreement.    FWIW I hope you can keep the song.  It's a way cool tradition.  Hijack it from where it came to where you want it to go.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Gatorubet

[What? 13]

4 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

My comment was was based on what’s surprise that the other guy didn’t know there was an issue. Whether Apex said it wasn’t an issue or not until recently I don’t know 

He did, repeatedly, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary

5 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

 You honestly believe every person knew this was an issue?

 

No, that's the entire point.  There's plenty of evidence that some students have felt uncomfortable for a prolonged period of time with regards to the Eyes. However, now we have people like Apex saying its "just now becoming an issue for athletes" because people like Apex are only now finding out about it.  It causes him to appear like an entitled whiner.  He never heard of it, so it must be invalid.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I will answer you, as I answered the question you asked me in your previous reply. It's simple: I don't know that. I am not proclaiming that this will solve any issues at all. However, I do think that we should listen and even take people at their word when they say something bothers them. Not even saying we have to take action, but at least believe them.

Now will you answer the question I have asked over and over? Why are you sure that the present situation DOESN"T bother them, especially when they have said it does? That was your claim, that you knew their minds and feelings.

Actually, nowhere did I post anything about knowing how black athletes feel and that it doesn't bother them. Show me now or stfu. I said I doubt most students and student athletes probably didn't  know much about who the buildings were named after until recently. Could I be wrong about that, absolutely, but I doubt it.  Then I proceeded to say change the names, take down the statues, change the words, but don't donate to BLM because it's  basicly extortion. 

[BNB 100]

I was born and raised a Longhorn in Austin.

I have given it thought the last couple of days, since it broke.  At first I was like,  "you can't take away Eyes of Texas", but now after thought, I I don't really care that much.

It's a song I learned when I could first talk 45 years ago, I would miss it, b/c it always give me a chill in DKR when everyone sang it, and  even a sense

of pride when I sang it at home alone.

I didn't know all the history of the song.

In my opinion of whether it should stay or not, I concede to our African-American  greats that have come through UT.  

I haven't waded through the last day to see what their comments are....

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by BNB

[Lhorn 4890]

I was born and raised a Longhorn in Austin.

I have given it thought the last couple of days, since it broke.  At first I was like,  "you can't take away Eyes of Texas", but now after thought, I I don't really care that much.

It's a song I learned when I could first talk 45 years ago, I would miss it, b/c it always give me a chill in DKR when everyone sang it, and  even a since of pride when I sang it at home alone.

I didn't know all the history of the song.

In my opinion of whether it should stay or not, I concede to our African-American athlete greats that have come through UT.  

I haven't waded through the last day to see what their comments are....

 

 

with regards to your last sentence.... I envy you

[Serak The Preparer 3430]

7 minutes ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

Actually, nowhere did I post anything about knowing how black athletes feel and that it doesn't bother them. Show me now or stfu. I said I doubt most students and student athletes probably didn't  know much about who the buildings were named after until recently. Could I be wrong about that, absolutely, but I doubt it.  Then I proceeded to say change the names, take down the statues, change the words, but don't donate to BLM because it's  basicly extortion. 

I apologise, I misremembered your words. I agree that you did not claim to know black or athlete student feelings.

I will note that you said you were sure they didn't know the history, so my question is still what makes you think that? I don't know if this was a topic of conversation or not, but if there was conversation, I could easily see it being pretty internal given the general lack of public discourse at the time. In other words it seems like the starting point was something like "it wasn't brought up by me or my social circle therefore it didn't exist". I personally think that this is the default perception for any majority in any country, which includes me. I do the same at times, but am trying to be more conscious of it when I do.

 Again apologies for attributing the statement about knowing their feelings to you.