Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Poe It Up 126]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

That doesn't make any sense at all.

You are claiming that in order to recognize the benefits that being white has conveyed in America a white person must feel guilt because the assertion that being white has had benefits is a feeling that can't be measured?

Try again.

It makes perfect sense. The issue you’re putting forth has yet to be quantified, so whether or not one views it as rampant is based on perception. You feel it is, and that’s ok. 

[Huckleberry 32710]

3 minutes ago, stork642 said:

You seem to hear/see what you want to  hear/see and I’m not too concerned about your perception of things.  Agree to disagree I guess but I find it amusing that I am just making points with no name calling but everyone of your post you a calling names.  I’m a big boy and it definitely doesn’t offend me but you seem agitated or conflicted.  Good luck with that.  

I find idiocy agitating. It's a character flaw, but I have come to accept it about myself. I'll give you one more chance. Let's follow that conversation, then at the end you can tell me which one of us is hearing/seeing what we want and which one of us knows how to read:

  

15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Then stop standing in the way when they assert their desire to realize the rights and advantages every American should posses.

 

15 hours ago, futureman said:

asserting their desire by being held to lower standards?  they’re capable human beings the same as anyone else.  or do you find them inferior?

 

15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

They want nothing of the sort. They want to be treated fairly. That means ending the privileges and special treatment long afforded white people in this country.

 

14 hours ago, futureman said:

to what exactly are you referring?  you’re being pretty vague. 

 

14 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Non-merit based admissions and employment. The benefit of the doubt from law enforcement. The benefit of the doubt from business owners. The benefit of the doubt from financial institutions. 

 

 

14 hours ago, futureman said:

is this some sort of joke?

 

14 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Is this where you pretend every white person you know got where they are through hard work and merit?

 

4 hours ago, stork642 said:

So you are saying the black applicants should be hired even if they are less qualified than white applicants just because they are black?  Is this a joke?  What you are really telling black people is that they aren’t as as capable as white people so we’ll have to give everything to you.   What a fucked up shitty message.  The black people I’ve worked with are extremely capable and would laugh at your assumption of their abilities.  Wow.  

Not only did David Dennison not say what you accuse him of in the last post above, he actually specifically stated that unequal treatment is not what they're looking for ("They want nothing of the sort. They want to be treated fairly."). Anyone with any reading comprehension ability at all can follow the above conversation and see that Dennison was discussing historical advantages of being white when he said "Non-merit based admissions and employment. The benefit of the doubt from law enforcement. The benefit of the doubt from business owners. The benefit of the doubt from financial institutions." You, apparently, lack that ability. That is not name-calling, that is an obvious conclusion from the available evidence. 

Please, attempt to provide support for your argument that David Dennison was saying black people need those things based on the above evidence. This is not an agree to disagree situation. This is a situation where you are flat-out demonstrably and provably wrong and are too dense to realize it.

[RomaVicta 29813]

43 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Ok, so I went back to the twitter post to find the actual demands. I was working off of articles and needed to go back to the source.

 

 

I feel like everything but the song and the donation demands could be done yesterday.

 

Negotiate and figure it out. Combine the earnings demand w/ the major city outreach piece to kill two birds with one stone.

 

IDK about the song. Change the lyrics? Would that suffice? 

 

 

My original feeling as well. The "demands" are put in the form of requests. I thought VY was heading up the inner city outreach program, but maybe it's too weak. 

The document itself is a nice representation of a University education applied to good faith negotiation. Respect.

[Huckleberry 32710]

15 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It makes perfect sense. The issue you’re putting forth has yet to be quantified, so whether or not one views it as rampant is based on perception. You feel it is, and that’s ok. 

Let's be clear here. You appear to be saying that over the last 100+ years the idea that being white has been advantageous in the United States of America is just a feeling with no supporting evidence. Is that your assertion?

But even more relevantly, that doesn't even matter. You still have yet to offer an argument supporting your assertion that for white people to state that being white has been advantageous it must be from a feeling of guilt. That is logically incorrect. Let's try an analogy.

Do you believe that being born in the USA offers an advantage over being born in many of the other countries in the world? Do you feel guilty about being born in the USA? Or is it simply obvious and observable that being born in the USA is better than being born in many other places and no feeling of guilt is required for you to make that observation?

Edited June 16, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Goodman 3273]

This was sent to me, seems timely and not political. 

Quality training and open discussion vs hate. Acknowledging that there will be a percentage on every side that does not agree.

 

[hayden_horn 11360]

apologies for the long post in advance. so i spent some time thinking about this before opining, because while i never liked that the alma mater was to the tune of "working on the railroad" i grew up with it being pretty special. i did not much know about its origins before recently, because, well, i just did not know. 

i was ignorant.

and that's okay being ignorant because it is a mostly passive state of mind. one simply does not know what one does not know.

however, something special is going on in our country at the moment. and i have been reflecting on that. 

change is hard, i think we can all identify with that. it comes in fits and spurts, in big sweeping changes or small incremental ones. i think we are at an inflection point where sweeping change is possible.

this country is on a journey to equality. we've been on this journey since before we were even a country, when african slaves were brought over. some of that change came with the absurd 3/5 compromise, whatever its motivations, it still assigned some element of personhood, however flawed, to black folks. this laid a foundation of sorts for abolitionists to be able to argue against slavery. then, when the writing was on the wall, the slave owning states seceded, and we had a big war that resulted in emancipation for all slaves. that was a fucking huge step, but it did not solve all the problem. i'm not going to go through the litany of things that have led us to this year we are having in 2020 for black (and, by extension, other underprivileged minorities) equality. 

i think it was @RomaVicta that referred to things being (and forgive me, i'm probably paraphrasing) as "stitches in the quilt that is smothering black people," which i found brilliant. if we are dismantling this quilt, we have to tear the large patches off, but also break some of these small stitches. 

our football team saw an opportunity to make some things right. these things are things i did not know about. i only knew robert lee moore building as the rlm. i attached no significance to those initials when i attended math or science classes there. i just hated the long walk from jester, and those escalators were a pain in the ass. because i was ignorant. but now i know, and i can't support the rlm being a thing any longer. same with the rest of the items on their list, up to and, yes, including the eyes of texas.

i've proudly sang the eyes hundreds, if not thousands, of times in my life. i attached no negative significance to the song, other than wishing it had an original tune, not the railroad song. and i never even knew the troubled racist past of i've been working on the railroad. i was ignorant. but now i know that the origins of the song are steeped in racism. personally, i may attach no racist significance to the lyrics, but this isn't about me. i think many posters are coming from their own personal perspective. but it isn't about you, either. 

it's about these student athletes, and other students on campus. unlike me, THEY have attached a negative significance to the song. and it turns out that many others who felt they had no voice also attach that negative perspective to the song.

and this is what us white people haven't understood, but i think we finally are grasping the concept. i don't know what it is like walking around with black skin. i do not have that perspective. i'll never understand it. it's not up to us to understand it. we simply need to empathize with it.

we need to listen when black people feel empowered to talk to us about how they feel about certain things. actually we should listen to everyone who feels empowered enough to talk to us about how they feel about certain things.

i am not the arbiter of what you find offensive. but if you tell me, "hey, hayden, can you stop saying retarded when referring to people you don't like? it bothers me as a the parent of a mentally challenged child" my initial response should not be "whatever, dude, everyone says that and i've been using that term my whole life. i'm not using it on your kid, so you shouldn't be offended." no, the response should be, "sorry, dude, i never meant offense, i never thought about it that way." and then i make a conscious effort to avoid that term, and i teach my sons to not use that word. 

that's called progress. it's such a minor step, but it doesn't cost me anything. it's roma's tiny little stitch of progress that i've pulled, but it's a step in the right direction. just because i'm not marching for better mental health care, and that we as a society haven't fully solved that problem doesn't mean i cannot empathize with my fellow man and make such a minor change in my life.

what does the eyes of texas cost us? can we make a change to pull a couple stitches so that our football team and other black folks more equal? these small steps still represent progress. sure, it doesn't solve all the problems, but we can and should effect the incremental changes that we can as appropriate.

"we've always done it this way" is never an acceptable answer when someone asks why. am i really going to stand in dkr memorial and proudly belt out the eyes of texas, knowing full well that the athletes i'm cheering on find it offensive? i can't bring myself to do that "because i've always done it" and it makes me proud and nostalgic. because i know it's offending someone else. those people it is offending told me that they find it offensive, which i did not know before. because i was ignorant. but now i know, and i can make a change.

we did the right thing and pulled down the confederate statues. maybe we should consider doing the right thing again, even though the change may be hard.

tl;dr: we should maybe listen to people and try to understand their perspective in order to advance society?

Edited June 16, 2020 by hayden_horn

[Michael Knight 12909]

[LTtxfan 49020]

 

[satyanash 14282]

[hayden_horn 11360]

5 minutes ago, satyanash said:

how in the fuck do the journalists in the fucking town not understand it's not the fucking fight song

[Tex Pete 20196]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

how in the fuck do the journalists in the fucking town not understand it's not the fucking fight song

How does any sports journalist anywhere not know the difference between a fight song and an alma mater? Most schools have both.

[Neonmoon 38127]

10 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

how in the fuck do the journalists in the fucking town not understand it's not the fucking fight song

Do you expect Kurt to know shit about anything?

[Poe It Up 126]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Let's be clear here. You appear to be saying that over the last 100+ years the idea that being white has been advantageous in the United States of America is just a feeling with no supporting evidence. Is that your assertion?

But even more relevantly, that doesn't even matter. You still have yet to offer an argument supporting your assertion that for white people to state that being white has been advantageous it must be from a feeling of guilt. That is logically incorrect. Let's try an analogy.

Do you believe that being born in the USA offers an advantage over being born in many of the other countries in the world? Do you feel guilty about being born in the USA? Or is it simply obvious and observable that being born in the USA is better than being born in many other places and no feeling of guilt is required for you to make that observation?

I’m not making the point that it never happened, I’m merely asking to what degree it happens. The answer to that question is very telling and where our preconceptions play a pivotal role. So, white guilt isn’t necessary to merely state it has happened, but it plays a role in believing it’s widespread. 

There are tangible things I can point towards with respect to being an American, ie. Bill of Rights, wealth, preeminent world power, etc. 

[Js1 85152]

29 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

how in the fuck do the journalists in the fucking town not understand it's not the fucking fight song

Alumni on this site don't know the difference either. 

[W0244 Jester 104]

4 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

 

This is outstanding.  Well done!

[W0244 Jester 104]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's not up to the journalist. Just like they don't write headlines.

True or false:

 

Chip Brown is a journalist 

[W0244 Jester 104]

4 hours ago, Scholz said:

This is my fear.  We have a chance to really differentiate ourselves here from the Texas and Oklahoma aggys of the world and show that our university, admin and fans truly hear the players.  We could finally shed once and for all that "last all white team to win it all" label.  I'm afraid the blue haired Antebellum section of our fanbase will completely step on our dicks though.

Wait, so you are more worried about being perceived as being better than the Oklahoma schools?

That is what you led with in that post.  
 

You are more worried about what somebody thinks about the university, and about you (by association), than making actual changes for the right reasons?

You are like the Facebook friends I have reposting memes and some selfies of themselves at protests.  They don’t really accomplish anything or effect change, but they get to stroke their own ego when people give them likes and tell them how great they are for “raising awareness”. 
 

Good to know this is about perception for you and being better seen as better than a state full of meth-toothed yokels sitting on red dirt (seriously, half that state could be the set for The Martian) that their ancestors stole. 

[W0244 Jester 104]

3 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Maybe qualified whites and/or males that didn’t get a job due to affirmative action should sue because their real opportunity was stolen by the non-merit whites, not the minorities? How would you lawyers tackle that since the premise seems to be that AA exists because whites have been getting undeserved opportunities?

This already happened with the law school some years back.  Do you remember that?

[W0244 Jester 104]

3 hours ago, mdmost said:

You could print them out and make them into a coffee table book for me. My birthday is coming up soon. 

Would you like a coffee table book about coffee tables?

[Armybrat 40755]

Secondary underlying motive? 

 

[LTtxfan 49020]

32 minutes ago, W0244 Jester said:

True or false:   

Chip Brown is a journalist 

[Eugene11 379]

20 hours ago, bullet said:

And the players need to be educated that this would not be a university of the first class without Littlefield.  He is not honored because he was a Confederate.  He is honored for what he did for the university.

damn   some of yall should learn when to speak and when not to.   

this is no different then saying i respect Hitler and want to learn about his leadership skills... lets ignore the holocaust and millions of deaths all over the world due to him.  

both are "retarded' statements.... which is also another conversion on the use of retarded. 

TIme for some of yall to start adulting.  i hope for society sake you dont have children.  

as an aside Hitler was a terrible leader but there is probably another thread out there for that discussion.  

[W0244 Jester 104]

3 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Win a national title: all demands are met

Win the big 12: everything except for the Eyes of Texas

Go 5-7: maybe next year

Lofty goal, but it will never work.  Every big football school has a team full of guys that have told how great they are for years.  
 

See how many athletes make sure to wear Texas Athletics gear of some sort every day on campus.  They like the attention. They already feel like they are the bee’s knees.  Now they are sure the university will entertain their requests. 

[BabaYaga 15215]

39 minutes ago, Eugene11 said:

damn   some of yall should learn when to speak and when not to.   

this is no different then saying i respect Hitler and want to learn about his leadership skills... lets ignore the holocaust and millions of deaths all over the world due to him.  

both are "retarded' statements.... which is also another conversion on the use of retarded. 

TIme for some of yall to start adulting.  i hope for society sake you dont have children.  

as an aside Hitler was a terrible leader but there is probably another thread out there for that discussion.  

I remember when Godwin's Law was a premise, and not an absolute certainty...

[Eugene11 379]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I remember when Godwin's Law was a premise, and not an absolute certainty...

funny.  i had to look that one up.   

makes since though considering we are talking about extremes here and some insane extremes at that.  

also when i quoted the message above i was thinking of that coach a few months ago that said something along the lines of he wanted to learn from hitlers "great leadership skills".  or something to that ridiculous extent.  i believe that genius was fired also.

 

[BabaYaga 15215]

1 minute ago, Eugene11 said:

funny.  i had to look that one up.   

makes since though considering we are talking about extremes here and some insane extremes at that.  

also when i quoted the message above i was thinking of that coach a few months ago that said something along the lines of he wanted to learn from hitlers "great leadership skills".  or something to that ridiculous extent.  i believe that genius was fired also.

 

Yeah, I remember that.  The coach, I mean.

I think there is merit in having the discussion that allows both parties to move beyond the "original sin" of slavery and the confederacy and look to what grew from that era.  I'm not talking statues, etc - but universities did spring up from the ashes of the war that have spawned generations of great minds.  If you can never decouple from this, then yes - every leader we learned about in Texas history needs to be purged.  We do in fact need to rename Austin.  Racist origins (which are still debated) don't always equate to racism today.  I'd like to know who sings the Eyes and begrudges the color of any players representing the University.  Put it this way.  I've been to too many funerals...for a myriad of reasons.  Those men.  Draped under the flag.  Those were brothers and sisters.  Nobody cared what color they were....any more than I doubt the overwhelming majority of fans care what color of skin a player is when they wear the uniform and represent the university.  The song may go.  Not my call.  But I do hope the players understand nobody holds them in any less esteem.  With or without the Eyes, their actions and character are what we the fans care out.  The song is sung to unify and bring fans and players together - win or lose, this is something WE do together.  This is how we let these young men that WE support you.  YOU matter to us.  You wear the uniform, and we are in this together.  

[Apex73 313]

10 hours ago, David Dennison said:

That type of long winded and frankly irrelevant apologia does nothing to explain America's ongoing racial disparities in incarceration, unemployment, home ownership, infant mortality, education, and net worth. 

 

My post wasn't designed to take apart all of those things but I can go into greater detail about all of that and I will shortly.  It was designed to show you the madness of collective thinking attributing guilt to a whole group of people.

[Apex73 313]

10 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

In one sentence you say the idea of white privilege is reprehensible and then immediately agree that white people are born with certain advantages. What you're not seeing, and this is still the problem, is that you don't see how black Americans are treated unfairly compared to white people. You don't see it because you were never treated unfairly. You were told everyone is equal and if you want to get ahead, you just work hard. Which is true for you, but it is not true for them. And yes, it stems from systemic racism in the country. The majority group (the whites) previously owned the minority group (the blacks) and continue to subjugate them through racist acts. 

I think we should have an education session

What is systemic racism? 

Redlining

Broken Window Policing

The Drug War

It keeps going and going

I think it's a pretty ignorant thing to say that I have never been treated unfairly especially on an individual level but I'll play along for now.  I will address all of those things in a little bit.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3806]

3 hours ago, Goodman said:

This was sent to me, seems timely and not political. 

Quality training and open discussion vs hate. Acknowledging that there will be a percentage on every side that does not agree.

 

Well one thing is for sure. Cops have brought this "hate" on themselves. The murdering ones, the dirty ones, the lying ones, and the ones that look the other way. 

So tired of hearing about "a few bad apples". 

[Apex73 313]

9 hours ago, What? said:

The term Kulak does not designate an ethnicity. It is a Russian word for wealthy peasant, one wealthy enough to hire outside labor.  This exchange was often viewed as exploitative by poorer peasants, hence their extreme reaction when the Soviets came to power and emboldened this peasant underclass.  Before you exhort people to find out "more about that sort of thing," perhaps you should know what you are talking about first.  Trying to frame that period of history as an ethnic issue reveals a profound ignorance on the topic.  Also, comparing forced collectivization and resulting famine to losing your precious little song causes you to appear hysterical and detached from reality.  That's a textbook example of the slippery slope logical fallacy.  Nobody's "targeting" any specific ethnic group,  trying to laying collective guilt on any any group, or accusing any group of a crime.  A portion of the UT student body wants to discuss, among other things, changing a song that some view as having racial undertones. I'm not seeing a call for retribution against anyone in their requests.

I'm aware of what it means.  Iv'e studied it extensively.  I wasn't trying to frame it as an ethnic issue.  I was trying to explain the danger of a collective mindset that subjugates guilt on a group of people.  It wasn't about comparing it to the song.  It was a response to saying America is full of white privilege.  That is targeting a specific group. If you can't understand that then you don't know what words mean.  You took everything I said completely out of context in what it was in response too.  It wasn't about the song shithead.  Btw I love how a song that everyone was fine singing and repping until recently becomes "my little song" once it becomes unpopular.  Apparently when it's wrong I have sole ownership.  That's rich.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Apex73

[Ricky Butler 2662]

5 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I think it's a pretty ignorant thing to say that I have never been treated unfairly especially on an individual level but I'll play along for now.  

That's your one takeaway?

[Valmy77 13125]

So we either find some way to keep the school song or drop it and the A&M song is even more archaic and out of touch? Seems like a win-win.

[Alien Octopus 506]

8 hours ago, OU Sucks said:

We don't know if it's Apex or Alien Octopus, though.

Well he shows more acumen in math than you. He can at least understand that 6 exclamation points are less than 2500. 

[OU Sucks 8749]

7 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Well he shows more acumen in math than you. He can at least understand that 6 exclamation points are less than 2500. 

Even your jokes don't make any sense.

[Alien Octopus 506]

Just now, OU Sucks said:

Even your jokes don't make any sense.

Maybe you can find a joke to misdirect

[Valmy77 13125]

Seriously though I love the Eyes of Texas and love singing it with the crowd after the games but at the end of the day it is just a dorky "I've been working on the railroad" knockoff. If singing it creates any kind of sense in anybody that we approve of blackface minstril shows then I think I can safely move on from it. That is not something I want the University of Texas in the 21st century to be associated with.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Valmy77

[Goo Punch 4275]

19 hours ago, Apex73 said:

If you live in a first world country, particularly America, then we all have privileges.  The benefits of being born in the 21st century are that you are not necessarily held down by the social class you are born in.  You can start out as nothing and work your way into something regardless of race.  We have millionaires and even billionaires of all different races and backgrounds.  We had a black President not long ago.  Is affirmative action not a privilege?  So the people who invoke the myth of white privilege is really only pandering to gain sympathy.  It's used as a way for people who have no balls to do what they want to do in life to blame shit on the system as if the system is keeping them there and acting as they don't have the freedom to make changes. 

riiiiight. the black folks who were gerrymandered out of FDR's New Deal simply had no balls and just wanted to make excuses about "the system". Just a bunch of lazy blacks who needed to simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it happen. same as the 1 million+ black men who served in WWII but were excluded from the GI Bill. buncha fucking pussies blaming "the system" when it's really all their fault. those lazy, ball-less blacks are no better than the blacks from South Central LA. I mean sure, the CIA introduced crack cocaine into black neighborhoods in LA, and then had the police/judicial system aggressively arrest and incarcerate them at insanely disproportionate rates, but that's no excuse for being addicted to crack, or taking advantage of *literally* the only chance you have to make enough money to escape the hood, right? fucking lazy ass black people making excuses all the time as if they haven't been treated exactly the same as whites since this country was founded. can't stand em. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Goo Punch

[Apex73 313]

28 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

riiiiight. the black folks who were gerrymandered out of FDR's New Deal simply had no balls and just wanted to make excuses about "the system". Just a bunch of lazy blacks who needed to simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it happen. same as the 1 million+ black men who served in WWII but were excluded from the GI Bill. buncha fucking pussies blaming "the system" when it's really all their fault. those lazy, ball-less blacks are no better than the blacks from South Central LA. I mean sure, the CIA introduced crack cocaine into black neighborhoods in LA, and then had the police/judicial system aggressively arrest and incarcerate them at insanely disproportionate rates, but that's no excuse for being addicted to crack, or taking advantage of *literally* the only chance you have to make enough money to escape the hood, right? fucking lazy ass black people making excuses all the time as if they haven't been treated exactly the same as whites since this country was founded. can't stand em. 

That's really not what I meant by that but if you want to take that out into far left field then that's on you.

[Goo Punch 4275]

8 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

That's really not what I meant by that but if you want to take that out into far left field then that's on you.

everything i quoted from your post can be boiled down to, "everyone in America has equal opportunities, anyone who believes in systemic racism is a lazy excuse maker, and white privilege is a myth." i didn't take your post anywhere but to task.

 

edit for posterity: i literally just brought up historical facts/examples of systemic racism and your reaction was, "ok libtard, way to take everything i said way out of proportion." you've got to be fucking kidding me. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Goo Punch

[bullet 1596]

21 hours ago, Helobious said:

Did you leave out the part about him being a slave owner prior to his military service on purpose or by accident? 

I guess you just missed the point entirely.  He is honored for what he did for the school.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners too.  So was Ulysses S. Grant (his wife technically owned them).

[Apex73 313]

After a deep conversation with myself and one of my friends, and examining my own unconscious bias, I have changed my opinion and come to the conclusion that systemic racism does exist.  Particularly in since of two things.  1.  The drug wars long lasting effects on the community.  2.  And politicians constantly zoning lower income predominantly black neighborhoods into the inner cities.  This has created a long lasting effect on the populations that grow up in these neighborhoods.  Not all obviously because I come from a similar lower class neighborhood in Southeast Dallas.  I should take notice that myself and my friends resilience to be able to come out of that isn't shared by everyone in that community and that's not their fault because they are set up to fail. You couple that with the other facts that most of the people I grew up around didn't have fathers and you have no direction and what seems like no hope.  So you are crippled before you even start the race. And I consider myself very lucky to have a father even though he was an abusive asshole.  I would like to continue the dialogue with a more open mind and heart going forward.  Sometimes even at my age I forget that I can't expect everyone to have the same attitude against the odds as I do no matter how helpful I think it might be.  However, I do think we are attacking this issue the wrong way and I still believe the kids are going for low hanging fruit but that's what kids do.  They don't understand the big picture yet and that's ok.  I also think systemic racism is a very amorphous term that's used in so many different ways that it kind of makes the argument unsustainable the way it's presented.  And I also stand by what I said that a lot of you are pandering and have too much white guilt because some of the things said have been absolutely ridiculous but I guess some of the things Ive said have been too.  I would suggest based on some of the responses Ive got,  y'all should do the same thing and have a deep conversation with yourselves.  And I think there are still far bigger issues at play facing the whole community.  In short, I always will support the team and the players.  It was never about shitting on them so much as it was the execution of the ideas.  Longhorn for life.  Hook Em.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Apex73

[bullet 1596]

21 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Is this where you seriously try to argue that being white in America doesn't come with privileges not afforded minorities?

Pretty hard to think there is anyone more privileged in America than Obama's daughters.  Are you seriously going to argue than someone who lives in a shack in the hills of Eastern Kentucky has privileges over the two Obama kids?

[Neonmoon 38127]

Good for Apex for continuing to engage and understand the opposing view through dialog

Edited June 17, 2020 by Neonmoon

[Valmy77 13125]

1 minute ago, bullet said:

Pretty hard to think there is anyone more privileged in America than Obama's daughters.  Are you seriously going to argue than someone who lives in a shack in the hills of Eastern Kentucky has privileges over the two Obama kids?

All White Privilege means is you don't have to put up with the bullshit people who aren't white have to put up with. It doesn't mean your life doesn't suck ass for other reasons. You might have gone to OU for example.

[runthebone 7933]

5 hours ago, satyanash said:

Nahlin asks what isn't a gray area these days?  A lot of things are becoming a lot clearer to people willing to listen and learn.

[bullet 1596]

10 hours ago, alincoln said:

It is a massive problem regardless of the causes and the resulting issues will not be remedied during the lifetime of anyone alive today because the die is already cast.  

And Hispanics and Anglos are heading the same way.  Its a huge problem for our society.

[bullet 1596]

8 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Can you explain why it is that you think everyone disagreeing with you on this thread is white? Is it because this board is heavily populated by college graduates or is it something less concerning like a simple assumption that without evidence to the contrary you just assume everyone looks like you? 

Maybe he thinks Black people are more intelligent on average than white liberals.

[OU Sucks 8749]

29 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

However, I do think we are attacking this issue the wrong way and I still believe the kids are going for low hanging fruit but that's what kids do.  They don't understand the big picture yet and that's ok.

I think the players do get the big picture, but they are just trying to change what is realistic for them to change for now.  These little things can foster conversation and thought (as you have discovered), and it can get the ball rolling for other universities to start improving small things, which can lead to bigger things and more understanding.

Edited June 17, 2020 by OU Sucks

[bullet 1596]

18 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

All White Privilege means is you don't have to put up with the bullshit people who aren't white have to put up with. It doesn't mean your life doesn't suck ass for other reasons. You might have gone to OU for example.

What it means is people who believe it are prejudiced and lump all people in a group based on skin color, rather than as individuals.

There are lots of aholes around.  Everybody experiences their bullshit.  Some white people have more than average to face.  Some Black people have less than average to face.

Privilege in this country is primarily based on wealth, not skin color.  And yes, Blacks on average have less wealth.  That doesn't mean all whites have privilege and all Blacks don't.

[Apex73 313]

3 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

I think the players do get the big picture, but they are just trying to change what is realistic for them to change for now.  These little things can foster conversation and thought (as you have discovered), and it can get the ball rolling for other universities to start improving small things, which can lead to bigger things and more understanding.

I disagree because they don't seem to have a well laid out plan.  I still think this will die down in a few weeks and everyone is going to think job well done and it's over until the next time something bad happens.  Maybe they do, but I doubt it since they are kids.  If I know anything about today's 18-22 year olds, it's all about instant gratification.  And they will probably get that, and I'm afraid it will take something else horrible to exact actual change.  But hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.