Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[MirrOlure 14647]

I used "anecdotal" because all that anyone knows is that it was sung at these events years ago.  Never in my 50+ years of personal observance has anyone ever alleged or insinuated that the creation or content of the song is based on anything remotely "racist".

[MrBig 5290]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

It’s definitely indirect. Not sure about anecdotal. Imagine a show where actors dress as Chinese men and sing “I’ve Been Working on the Rareroad”. Does that make the song racist?  No. . 

Yeah, this sounds pretty racist to me. Especially if the first time this particular version of the song we continue to sing today was initially sung by white guys pretending to be Chinese men. That’s still racist, just towards a different group of people. 

[Zeus 5952]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

With all due respect, this is utterly fucking retarded. 

Judge not by the content of character, but by the color of ones skin.

-MKL

[MrBig 5290]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You’re failing to see my point. The act is racist. The song is not. We sing it now - black, white, Latino and Asian alike - with no racist malice in our hearts. Hence, it’s not a racist song. 

My point is that the song was originally written FOR the purpose of being performed at a minstrel blackface act.

“The act is racist” is your quote.

The lyrics are irrelevant if the act itself is racist. 

[Texas73 420]

Here is a picture of the quartet that sang The Eyes of Texas the first time it was sung, at the Austin Opera House in 1903. I bet most think  it was sung on campus and by students, students dressed in black-face.

Most probably think it was sung not only by students on campus but by members of the Cowboys. The Cowboys didn't exist in 1903.

 

[MirrOlure 14647]

7 minutes ago, MrBig said:

My point is that the song was originally written FOR the purpose of being performed at a minstrel blackface act.

“The act is racist” is your quote.

The lyrics are irrelevant if the act itself is racist. 

That is total "urban legend" made-up revisionist history bullshit.

[Texas73 420]

5 minutes ago, MrBig said:

My point is that the song was originally written FOR the purpose of being performed at a minstrel blackface act.

“The act is racist” is your quote.

The lyrics are irrelevant if the act itself is racist. 

Prove your point. 

Were you there at the Austin Opera House?

Did you talk to someone who was there? Provide their name and phone number.

This excerpt is from the University of Texas about the origins and history of UT's songs:

A Varsity Minstrel Show was scheduled for Wednesday evening, May 12, 1903, in the Hancock Opera House on West Sixth Street, and was packed with music, dances, skits, and even a tumbling act. Proceeds from the show would pay for the University Track team to attend the All-South Track and Field Competition in Atlanta.

Leading off the show was an overture by the ‘Varsity Band, followed by “Oh, The Lovely Girls,” “Old Kentucky Home,” and “The Castle on the Nile” performed by the University Chorus or student soloists. The fourth piece listed on the printed program was cryptically labeled a “Selection” by the Varsity Quartet.

You have no proof that all the music, dances, skits and tumbling act were all done in blackface and you continuing to post it as fact is not correct. Enough.

 

[MrBig 5290]

1 minute ago, MirrOlure said:

That is total "urban legend" made-up revisionist history bullshit.

All of the quoted sources regarding the facts I‘m discussing about The Eyes of Texas have come from The Alcalde. Please state how this is “urban legend” and revisionist history bullshit.

[SHOOTER12 8791]

29 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Judge not by the content of character, but by the color of ones skin.

-MKL

I know what you're saying here, and those were beautiful words by Dr King, but a truly racist/prejudiced/biased person would have no clue what those words mean.  Most of them are incapable of speaking the language.

[SHOOTER12 8791]

3 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

Prove your point. 

Were you there at the Austin Opera House?

Did you talk to someone who was there? Provide their name and phone number.

This excerpt is from the University of Texas about the origins and history of UT's songs:

A Varsity Minstrel Show was scheduled for Wednesday evening, May 12, 1903, in the Hancock Opera House on West Sixth Street, and was packed with music, dances, skits, and even a tumbling act. Proceeds from the show would pay for the University Track team to attend the All-South Track and Field Competition in Atlanta.

Leading off the show was an overture by the ‘Varsity Band, followed by “Oh, The Lovely Girls,” “Old Kentucky Home,” and “The Castle on the Nile” performed by the University Chorus or student soloists. The fourth piece listed on the printed program was cryptically labeled a “Selection” by the Varsity Quartet.

You have no proof that all the music, dances, skits and tumbling act were all done in blackface and you continuing to post it as fact is not correct. Enough.

 

I think we need to reach out to Armybrat for confirmation on this.

[South Austin 52172]

Unpopular hot take, from a season-ticket holder since 1996 who's revolved much of his adult life (and sometimes to an unhealthy degree) around University of Texas athletics:

I never really liked The Eyes of Texas.  Awkward lyrics, lame melody.  I've always sung it with those around me, but I don't give two shits if we ditch it.  It's not a hill I'm going to die on.

[Neonmoon 38127]

"I've been working on the railroad" was a minstrel song created for and performed at a minstrel show. The whole point of dressing up in blackface was to mimic/mock black people. 

Links and information

https://www.americanheritage.com/blackface-sad-history-minstrel-shows

Quote

the long tradition of minstrel shows in which whites covered their faces with burnt cork or grease paint in order to profit from denigrating African-Americans. 

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/ut-austin-eyes-of-texas-song-racist/

Quote

These minstrel shows, which went on until the sixties, were fund-raisers organized by students and featured white performers singing and dancing in blackface. 

https://gen.medium.com/dinah-put-down-your-horn-154b8d8db12a

Quote

Blackface minstrelsy was the most popular form of musical entertainment in America from the 1840s to the early 20th century. The theatrical and musical act consisted of White performers coloring their skin with burned cork and ridiculing African Americans in blatantly racist terms.

Quote

I’ve Been Working on the Railroad” is based on the minstrel tune “Levee Song,” first published by Princeton University students in 1894. Caricaturing the African American laborers who built the levee and railroad systems in the 19th and early 20th centuries, “Levee Song” was a hit on college campuses and by 1920 became known by the line from its popular chorus, “I Been Wukkin’ on de Railroad.”

The song’s publication in caricatured Black dialect continued into the 1940s, with lyrics that reflected the physically abusive and highly exploitative conditions for laborers in railroad and levee camps. The camp workday began early (“rise up, so uhly in de mawn’”), the hours were long (“I been wukkin’ on de railroad all de live long day”), and White foremen enforced abusive conditions through disciplinary violence (“doan’ yuh hyah de capn’ shoutin’”), which occasionally resulted in death.

Dinah, the railroad camp cook whose meal is so eagerly awaited by the laborers (“Dinah, blow yo’ hawn!”) is a character from another minstrel song, “Old Joe,” or “Dere’s Some One in de House wid Dinah.” Dinah was a 19th-century generic name for an African American woman, recalling Aunt Dinah, the untidy slave cook of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin (1852).

Lyrics to “Dere’s Some One in De House wid Dinah.” Source: ‘Gordon’s Universal Melodist,’ London: G.H. Davidson (1953)

In “Dere’s Some One in de House wid Dinah,” a drunken plantation laborer, Old Joe, flies into a rage when he realizes that someone, “playin’ on de ole banjo,” is in the house with his mistress, Dinah. Like many minstrel songs, “Dinah” employs the classic minstrel trope of the African American playing the banjo.

By 1915, “Levee Song” started being published in children’s song collections. In M. Teresa Armitage’s children’s song anthology, Junior Laurel Songs, “Levee Song” was published in caricatured Black dialect but was euphemistically described as an “old popular song.”

By the mid-20th century, publishing minstrel songs in caricatured Black dialect became unacceptable, and the lyrics to minstrel songs started appearing in standard English spelling. Beatrice Landeck, in her 1950 anthology, Songs to Grow On, published “I’ve Been Working on the Railroad” in standard English and called it “one of the classic American community songs” that mysteriously “sprung from nowhere.” The songbook’s accompanying illustration, however, betrayed the editors’ knowledge of the song’s true roots.

The folk revivalist Pete Seeger similarly downplayed the historical roots of “I’ve Been Working on the Railroad.” The liner notes to Seeger’s first recording of the song in 1963 innocuously describe “Railroad” as an “old 19th-century ditty” that “just keeps changing and rolling along.”

The mythologizing of “I’ve Been Working on the Railroad” as a tune celebrating American values has continued into recent decades. When Smithsonian Folkways reissued Seeger’s recording in 1990, the liner notes touted the “democratic passion” of folk revivalists to include the “music of working-class Americans” as part of the “national cultural conversation.” The Black Americans represented in “Railroad,” however, barely had any rights as laborers in railroad camps and arguably still lack basic rights as Americans today.

 

[MrBig 5290]

On 6/13/2020 at 4:31 PM, MrBig said:

A very seedy looking individual wearing an A&M sweater and carrying a dilapidated old valise appeared on stage. The interlocutor demanded, ‘Say, what you got in your bag?’

’A boll weevil.’

’Whar you gwine with it?’

’I’se gwine up to the University to show it to the president.’

’What for?’

’He’s gwine to make a speech to this here boll weevil. He’s gwine to tell it, ‘The eyes of Texas are upon you!’ 

This is how the song was first introduced to the students (regardless of whether or not it was actually sung in blackface).

The use of the phrase “I’se gwine” is historically documented to be an exaggeration of how blacks used to speak. It is derogatory and demeaning to black people. 

[Texas73 420]

15 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Unpopular hot take, from a season-ticket holder since 1996 who's revolved much of his adult life (and sometimes to an unhealthy degree) around University of Texas athletics:

I never really liked The Eyes of Texas.  Awkward lyrics, lame melody.  I've always sung it with those around me, but I don't give two shits if we ditch it.  It's not a hill I'm going to die on.

Anecdotes prove nothing. I've been a season ticket holder since 1971 and I love the song. It is sung at wedding, births, funerals and more. WAY more people have the opposite opinion of your hot take.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Texas73

[Js1 85152]

3 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

Anecdotes prove nothing. I've been a season ticket holder since 1971 and I love the song. It is sung at wedding, births, funerals and more. WAY more people have the opposite opinion of your hot take.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. 

This whole thread is anecdotes about the eyes. 

[South Austin 52172]

2 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

Anecdotes prove nothing. I've been a season ticket holder since 1996 and I love the song. It is sung at wedding, births, funerals and more. WAY more people have the opposite opinion of your hot take.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. 

I was just offering a perspective with no scientific data.  As did you.  Your response is also an anecdote that proves nothing, other than two avid Texas fans and season-ticket holders since 1996 disagree on this.   

[927 E. 41st 1124]

So, while we're at it with songs. What about songs with the N word in them. If we're even taking about these hurt feelings over something none of these students has ever experienced first hand, shouldn't there be a purge of all songs that have direct denigrating lyrics? Should students with that music on their iPhone or found to have streamed it on Spotify face punishment?  

Edited June 17, 2020 by 927 E. 41st

[vtaenz 601]

Pretty sure this was already mentioned but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I've_Been_Working_on_the_Railroad

 

Quote

The melody of the opening line of "I've Been Working on the Railroad" may have been inspired by the very similar melody at the beginning of the cello solo about one minute into Franz von Suppé's 1846 Poet and Peasant overture.^[3]

 

Can a song be racist if it samples from another song that sampled from another song and has different lyrics?

If Party Rock Anthem samples and has different lyrics from Call On Me, and let's pretend Call On Me is racist, but Call On Me samples from Valerie, and Valerie is for sure not racist, is Party Rock Anthem racist?
 

[South Austin 52172]

2 minutes ago, 927 E. 41st said:

So, while we're at it with songs. What about songs with the N word in them. If we're even taking about these hurt feelings over something none of these students has ever experienced first hand, shouldn't there be a purge of all songs that have direct denigrating lyrics? Shouldn't any student with that music on their iPhone or found to have streamed it on Spotify face punishment?  

Wait, are you making the "why can't we use the n-word if they can?" argument?

[927 E. 41st 1124]

No.

Directly denigrating lyrics will be addressed at some point.

Edited June 17, 2020 by 927 E. 41st

[Texas73 420]

 

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

I was just offering a perspective with no scientific data.  As did you.  Your response is also an anecdote that proves nothing, other than two avid Texas fans and season-ticket holders since 1996 disagree on this.   

Exactly but I did mistype the date since I have been a season ticket holder, 1971 here. If people didn't give two shits about The Eyes, this thread wouldn't exist or would have ended. 

It is hard for me to believe anyone who has been to the games and/or graduations think the song has awkward lyrics and a lame melody.  It is the act of the song, all being sung together that makes it fucking awesome. 

[Texas73 420]

Aggy and ou sucks will have won the war if we stop singing The Eyes. 

Yes, my opinion.

[927 E. 41st 1124]

Just now, Texas73 said:

It is the act of the song, all being sung together that makes it fucking awesome. 

And actually unifying, but as evidenced by this thread you can't please everyone. Especially those who are spring loaded to be offended.

I've been called a lot of things in my life, but I've never allowed myself to be offended. It's worked for me, your milage may vary.

[South Austin 52172]

12 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

It is hard for me to believe anyone who has been to the games and/or graduations think the song has awkward lyrics and a lame melody.  It is the act of the song, all being sung together that makes it fucking awesome. 

Look, I've sung The Eyes, and when it's at the end of a game, drunk off my ass, exuberant over a big win, surrounded by Texas fans who are total strangers . . .  yes, it's awesome.  And yes, it's a song that has marked a lot of memories throughout my life. 

But if you take it away from the group fan setting -- which as you acknowledge, is what makes it awesome -- then lyrically and melodically it's just a downright bad song.  But I may be talking to a huge Blake Shelton fan, so I understand if not everyone agrees with me.  

Edited June 17, 2020 by South Austin

[South Austin 52172]

Just now, Dr. Beeper said:

Much bigger fan of Texas Fight. To me the two songs aren’t comparable. I love Texas Fight. One of the best fight songs out there. I get chills and boners when that song comes on. Kinda like when I come on your mom. 

You just ruined Texas Fight for me, asshole.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21784]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

But if you take it away from the group fan setting -- which as you acknowledge, is what makes it awesome -- then lyrically and melodically it's just a downright a bad song.  But I may be talking to a huge Blake Shelton fan, so I understand if not everyone agrees with me.  

Most school songs and national anthems are like that.  They, like flags, only have meaning in what they symbolize.  Part of that meaning to me was that it, in some small way, symbolized a unity between the team and the fans. I've always felt that singing it at the end of the game with the team,  win or lose, was an awesome tradition.  It was always especially awesome when it was done on the road in the other team's house.  The singing of the Eyes was the sole reason that I stayed and watched those awful OU beat downs and Rout 66, but it was also the reason that I got to see the greatest comeback in Longhorn history.  Finding out that the team was forced to do it and what it meant, or didn't mean to them, feels a little like when I found out that Santa wasn't real.  No matter what happens with it now, I don't think I'll ever feel the same way about it and I'll just be like fans of other schools and leave when the team gets too far behind.

[MirrOlure 14647]

54 minutes ago, MrBig said:

This is how the song was first introduced to the students (regardless of whether or not it was actually sung in blackface).

The use of the phrase “I’se gwine” is historically documented to be an exaggeration of how blacks used to speak. It is derogatory and demeaning to black people. 

Quoting yourself doesn't count as a source

[MirrOlure 14647]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Much bigger fan of Texas Fight. To me the two songs aren’t comparable. I love Texas Fight. One of the best fight songs out there. I get chills and boners when that song comes on. Kinda like when I come on your mom. 

So....Texas Fight, originally known as Texas Taps because it is based on an up tempo version of "Taps".  Taps was played by the Confederate Army in the Civil War.....well, you know....

[Valmy77 13125]

Fortunately I think Taps is in the clear. The Union Army is responsible for that one, though obviously it is much older I think.

The Rebs might have appropriated it though.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Valmy77

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

3 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

So....Texas Fight, originally known as Texas Taps because it is based on an up tempo version of "Taps".  Taps was played by the Confederate Army in the Civil War.....well, you know....

Taps pre-dates the Civil War and was not written by/for the confederacy.  I'm not sure your point.  Its like saying we need to burn our chunky knit shawl collar pull-over sweaters because Confederate soldiers wore wool.   

[Valmy77 13125]

I thought the current version was created (arranged, adapted...whatever) by General Butterfield, he might have been a bad general but man could he do bugle calls.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Valmy77

[MirrOlure 14647]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Taps pre-dates the Civil War and was not written by/for the confederacy.  I'm not sure your point.  Its like saying we need to burn our chunky knit shawl collar pull-over sweaters because Confederate soldiers wore wool.   

The Eyes of Texas was written by a student as a "skit" or "act" poking fun at the School President.

[Valmy77 13125]

Just now, MirrOlure said:

The Eyes of Texas was written by a student as a "skit" or "act" poking fun at the School President.

Yeah I don't know how he lived down the sick burn of um...having the eyes of Texas on him all the live-long day.

[SHOOTER12 8791]

14 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

Quoting yourself doesn't count as a source

Must plead ignorance here, I'se gwine?

I understand the exaggeration but what is that supposed to be?

[HeyMcFly 144]

 

1 hour ago, Texas73 said:

Anecdotes prove nothing. I've been a season ticket holder since 1971 and I love the song. It is sung at wedding, births, funerals and more. WAY more people have the opposite opinion of your hot take.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. 

Thats pretty weird tbh

[Valmy77 13125]

Ok I can see it being sung at a wedding reception of two UT grads but singing it at a birth?

[formermav43 4599]

At my uncle’s funeral a few months ago, he requested a bagpiper to play Amazing Grace and The Eyes of Texas at the conclusion of the graveside service.

I did think it was odd that he had him wear blackface, though.

[HeyMcFly 144]

2 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

At my uncle’s funeral a few months ago, he requested a bagpiper to play Amazing Grace and The Eyes of Texas at the conclusion of the graveside service.

I did think it was odd that he had him wear blackface, though.

RIP Uncle ruckus

[HeyMcFly 144]

13 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok I can see it being sung at a wedding reception of two UT grads but singing it at a birth?

I think this has definitely happened but i was probably wasted by that time that i dont rememebr.

[Tex Pete 20196]

18 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah I don't know how he lived down the sick burn of um...having the eyes of Texas on him all the live-long day.

Probably threw out a "Twenty-three skidoo, you scalawags!"

[Pasken 1309]

4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Yes. Because it’s a tradition that despite its origins (which aren’t steeped in racism, btw), that was about bringing Longhorn fans together and nothing more, from the days of Julius Whittier onward. Listen to Brian Jones’ take this morning. 

[Tex Pete 20196]

15 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok I can see it being sung at a wedding reception of two UT grads but singing it at a birth?

You think some dude sang it after he blew nuts in his wife and wasn't going to also sing it when the baby came out? Dumbass.

[MirrOlure 14647]

Nobody is denying that happened, or defending it.

[Texas73 420]

37 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Most school songs and national anthems are like that.  They, like flags, only have meaning in what they symbolize.  Part of that meaning to me was that it, in some small way, symbolized a unity between the team and the fans. I've always felt that singing it at the end of the game with the team,  win or lose, was an awesome tradition.  It was always especially awesome when it was done on the road in the other team's house.  The singing of the Eyes was the sole reason that I stayed and watched those awful OU beat downs and Rout 66, but it was also the reason that I got to see the greatest comeback in Longhorn history.  Finding out that the team was forced to do it and what it meant, or didn't mean to them, feels a little like when I found out that Santa wasn't real.  No matter what happens with it now, I don't think I'll ever feel the same way about it and I'll just be like fans of other schools and leave when the team gets too far behind.

I agree with your positive sentiments about the song. I was lucky enough to be in the Rose Bowl when Vince Young put us in the endzone.  I have also read that the team is forced to do it and I'd like to know more about that.  are aIn my 49 years as a season ticket holder there have always been players that don't sing The Eyes. They didn't stop me from singing it and I didn't care that they didn't sing it. Maybe they hate singing, maybe they were too tired to run down to in front of the band, maybe they needed to get to the locker room to piss or whatever, maybe they sat on the bench and didn't feel like singing it. 

I'm not giving much credence to the idea that they are forced to sing it and thus my enthusiasm toward the song is not as destroyed as yours, you having compared it to finding out Santa wasn't real. 

I might compare it to finding out the tooth fairy wasn't real since I never believed in her anyway. 

[HeyMcFly 144]

13 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Probably threw out a "Twenty-three skidoo, you scalawags!"

Its not 1492, he wasnt sailing the west indies... it was more like "that razzes my berries, you bird dog beatnik curtain climber"

[US183 124]

OB is full of aggrieved middle aged white guys.

That’s a racist statement. But I hope that all of the players demands are met and then some. I will also enjoy seeing the whole upper deck empty. 

[HeyMcFly 144]

16 minutes ago, Pasken said:

I am legitimately surprised none of the gerbil brain frats never tried to do this as a "joke"

[US183 124]

44 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Fortunately I think Taps is in the clear. The Union Army is responsible for that one, though obviously it is much older I think.

 

Nope, that’s racist too. 

[HeyMcFly 144]

4 minutes ago, US183 said:

OB is full of aggrieved middle aged white guys.

That’s a racist statement. But I hope that all of the players demands are met and then some. I will also enjoy seeing the whole upper deck empty. 

You mean the guys that leave in the middle of the 2nd quarter? those guys dont sit up in the nose bleeds... you know this.

[Valmy77 13125]

4 minutes ago, US183 said:

Nope, that’s racist too. 

Maybe, but less so.