Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[Skipper 6,107]

Orangebloods now has a bunch of old whitey's so pissed they are clammoring to do away with UT athletics or scholarship athletics as a whole  One guy even has the idea that "all players should have same academic standards" and be "parents should be forced to pay for the players tutoring"  And you wonder why our players have some of these attitudes.   Seriously, the Boomers (at least many of them) just need to fucking die off already.

[SHOOTER12 8,791]

6 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

The University of Florida will no longer allow its "Gator Bait" cheer at sporting events because of "historic racist imagery associated with the phrase," school president Kent Fuchs announced Thursday.

As part of a university-wide review to help the school take steps against racism, Fuchs highlighted the cheer as action that will be taken immediately.

"While I know of no evidence of racism associated with our 'Gator Bait' cheer at UF sporting events, there is horrific historic racist imagery associated with the phrase," Fuchs said. "Accordingly, University Athletics and the Gator Band will discontinue the use of the cheer."

When the band strikes up the familiar tune at sporting events, fans respond with a chomping motion with their arms and shout "Gator Bait!"

African American babies were used as alligator bait, according to the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia at Ferris State University, citing newspaper articles and imagery from the late 1800s and early 20th century. The term "alligator bait" was also used as a racial slur against African Americans.

 

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29329250/university-florida-putting-end-gator-bait-cheer-band-performance-due-racist-history

I will say one thing, I've learned more about racism and racist history than I ever thought I could.  Damn there's some crazy stuff in the past(and now).

[TXSG8R 3,360]

53 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

 

Happy this finally came about.  I learned about the history of this a season or two ago from reading a twitter argument of all things.  Our fanbase is going through the same rationalizations some of you are.  The chant seems to have originated from a black player in the mid 90s, Lawrence Wright.  Plenty of people want to grasp onto that as some kind of justification to keep it, or that it couldn't be racist since it started there.  It may have come from an innocent place, but it does have pretty clear ties to racism, so its gotta go.  The band can figure out some new shit to play. 

I know The Eyes situation is murkier, but at the end of the day it comes down to making the university inclusive for everyone.  I look forward to whatever gets worked out.  

[Jacob McCandles 202]

1 hour ago, Veerbone said:

Separate note:

Anyone know if “The Eyes” was exclusively a minstrel/black faced Cowboys application for an extended period of time or was it a one off &/or blended with several scenarios after that original intro?

The Eyes was written/first performed in 1903. The Cowboys began in 1922. So, The Eyes was performed for at least 19 years before being performed by The Cowboys or at a Cowboys' minstrel show. It is interesting to me that so much of the debate is focused on who might have done what, or what was the intent of college students, more than 117 years ago, with the most cited "evidence" being an Alcalde article published approximately 80 years after the fact. Ultimately, nothing can (or will) ever be proven as an historical fact one way or the other, which means neither side of the argument is likely to budge. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Jacob McCandles

[Neonmoon 38,127]

9 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Happy this finally came about.  I learned about the history of this a season or two ago from reading a twitter argument of all things.  Our fanbase is going through the same rationalizations some of you are.  The chant seems to have originated from a black player in the mid 90s, Lawrence Wright.  Plenty of people want to grasp onto that as some kind of justification to keep it, or that it couldn't be racist since it started there.  It may have come from an innocent place, but it does have pretty clear ties to racism, so its gotta go.  The band can figure out some new shit to play. 

I know The Eyes situation is murkier, but at the end of the day it comes down to making the university inclusive for everyone.  I look forward to whatever gets worked out.  

I think our fanbase is going through the stages of grief. People have loved the Eyes their entire life. It was never racist. But now, they have to say goodbye. It's not easy. 

Some are still in Denial, but many have moved on to depression and bargaining. Eventually, we will get to acceptance.. Then we can all rally around a new inclusive song

[Valmy77 13,125]

I don't think we need a new song. We have Texas Fight. Alma Maters are kind of old fashioned anyway.

But I suppose I should mention that the Aggie War Hymn also comes from a minstril song and I cannot imagine that is the only other one. We probably won't be the only school to be dumping some songs if that is the standard.

 

[Fondren & Main 6,675]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I think our fanbase is going through the stages of grief. People have loved the Eyes their entire life. It was never racist. But now, they have to say goodbye. It's not easy. 

Some are still in Denial, but many have moved on to depression and bargaining. Eventually, we will get to acceptance.. Then we can all rally around a new inclusive song

I predict heavy financial losses over the song.  I bet the majority are in total agreement with every demand except BLM and the eyes.  And this is going to cause a reckoning. I hope that I am wrong.

[TXSG8R 3,360]

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I think our fanbase is going through the stages of grief. People have loved the Eyes their entire life. It was never racist. But now, they have to say goodbye. It's not easy. 

Some are still in Denial, but many have moved on to depression and bargaining. Eventually, we will get to acceptance.. Then we can all rally around a new inclusive song

I hear you.  It would be easier if things were clear cut, but even as bad as the UF one is, people are still doing the same.  Some of the replies on a UF board. 

Quote

So we can cheer "Get back you suck", but not "Gator Bait"? Makes plenty of sense.

Fuch's isn't being proactive. He's pandering to the mob and making a decision where there is none required.

Quote

Fuchs is another coward bowing to the mob .Someone needs to grow a pair and say NO to these ridiculous demands

Quote

You missed the point. My earlier post pointed to the fact there is no evidence. My point was simply go to the band and request they stop playing the cheer music. No need for some major statement to be made. The cheer, in its present form, has nothing to do with some possible racist term. We don't even know that the term was racist in origin. Just that it was used by some racist people. But if it makes people feel better, then get rid of it.

While we're at it, are we going to get rid of the name Florida, which came from the word Florido in Spanish? I mean hell, the Spanish came here and killed all kinds of people. We're already taking Columbus statues down, we mine as well change the name of the state and school.

And this gem....

Quote

Essentially Fuchs called Lawrence Wright a racist for coining this term.

Theres plenty of other stuff that gets cloaky too.  Fans gonna fan.  

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,784]

I don't think you can just drop in Texas Fight or some other song and keep the tradition going.  I think the tradition of the team and the fans coming together after the game will just go away.  The differences between college and pro football are all disappearing.  I suppose it was inevitable considering the money involved in college football now.

[Apex73 313]

I also think a lot of the real issues get conflated with just overall sjw nonsense.  Which isn't fair.  But the fact that we've had a lot of people in the country screaming about nonsense and aligning themselves with black people isn't doing anyone any favors.  Now it's harder to make the distinction between black people going through real issues and just sjw nonsense.  Sucks.

[Veerbone 116]

32 minutes ago, Jacob McCandles said:

The Eyes was written/first performed in 1903. The Cowboys began in 1922. So, The Eyes was performed for at least 19 years before being performed by The Cowboys or at a Cowboys' minstrel show. It is interesting to me that so much of the debate is focused on who might have done what, or what was the intent of college students, more than 117 years ago, with the most cited "evidence" being an Alcalde article published approximately 80 years after the fact. Ultimately, nothing can (or will) ever be proven as an historical fact one way or the other, which means neither side of the argument is likely to budge. 

Not sure that will effect the offended parties, but personally it helps justify my feelings (rather keep the Eyes if possible & support all other requests aside from BLM funding).

To each their own but I asked my son about his maternal heritage & the fact he wore a Hugo Boss suit to several Jewish events with knowledge of the ties to the Nazi Party.  He stated his awareness & sees the brand as it operates today vs it’s past in a circumstantial era.

To each their own.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Veerbone

[Hiphopopotamos 20,865]

36 minutes ago, Jacob McCandles said:

The Eyes was written/first performed in 1903. The Cowboys began in 1922. So, The Eyes was performed for at least 19 years before being performed by The Cowboys or at a Cowboys' minstrel show. It is interesting to me that so much of the debate is focused on who might have done what, or what was the intent of college students, more than 117 years ago, with the most cited "evidence" being an Alcalde article published approximately 80 years after the fact. Ultimately, nothing can (or will) ever be proven as an historical fact one way or the other, which means neither side of the argument is likely to budge. 

The Cowboy's minstrel shows were not the first minstrel shows at Texas.

[Valmy77 13,125]

8 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I also think a lot of the real issues get conflated with just overall sjw nonsense.  Which isn't fair.  But the fact that we've had a lot of people in the country screaming about nonsense and aligning themselves with black people isn't doing anyone any favors.  Now it's harder to make the distinction between black people going through real issues and just sjw nonsense.  Sucks.

I am not big on labels like "sjw" or whatever. If the topic is nonsense then it should be evident through the facts.

[MillerEP 30,350]

“Colored people don't like Little Black Sambo. Burn it. White people don't feel good about Uncle Tom's Cabin. Burn it. Someone's written a book on tobacco and cancer of the lungs? The cigarette people are weeping? Burn the book. Serenity, Montag. Peace, Montag. Take your fight outside. Better yet, into the incinerator. Funerals are unhappy and pagan? Eliminate them, too....We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the constitution says, but everyone made equal . . . A book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take the shot from the weapon. Breach man’s mind."

-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

[Valmy77 13,125]

1 minute ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The Cowboy's minstrel shows were not the first minstrel shows at Texas.

Yeah it seems there was a varsity minstrel show back in 1903. So maybe you could take elective classes in it back then and eventually make it to the varsity show.

[David Dennison 18,694]

11 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I also think a lot of the real issues get conflated with just overall sjw nonsense.  Which isn't fair.  But the fact that we've had a lot of people in the country screaming about nonsense and aligning themselves with black people isn't doing anyone any favors.  Now it's harder to make the distinction between black people going through real issues and just sjw nonsense.  Sucks.

It's not nonsense.

[Valmy77 13,125]

1 minute ago, MillerEP said:

“Colored people don't like Little Black Sambo. Burn it. White people don't feel good about Uncle Tom's Cabin. Burn it. Someone's written a book on tobacco and cancer of the lungs? The cigarette people are weeping? Burn the book. Serenity, Montag. Peace, Montag. Take your fight outside. Better yet, into the incinerator. Funerals are unhappy and pagan? Eliminate them, too....We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the constitution says, but everyone made equal . . . A book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take the shot from the weapon. Breach man’s mind."

-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Yeah I don't think we should change our mascot to Little Black Sambo either.

[Saint Tacky 1,610]

1 hour ago, Apex73 said:

Both sides need to listen carefully to each other.  Compromise rarely happens when people are demanding and screaming or tone deaf and dismissive.

It appears one side is not inclined to cooperate, and that's their prerogative. I just side with the notion that if they cannot work out a compromise that the "Eyes of Texas" is not where the suits should draw the line in the sand. 

[Apex73 313]

1 minute ago, Saint Tacky said:

It appears one side is not inclined to cooperate, and that's their prerogative. I just side with the notion that if they cannot work out a compromise that the "Eyes of Texas" is not where the suits should draw the line in the sand. 

I mean if you mean by cooperate to just agree 100 percent with all the demands that is just compliance not cooperation.

[mdmost 42,876]

11 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

“Colored people don't like Little Black Sambo. Burn it. White people don't feel good about Uncle Tom's Cabin. Burn it. Someone's written a book on tobacco and cancer of the lungs? The cigarette people are weeping? Burn the book. Serenity, Montag. Peace, Montag. Take your fight outside. Better yet, into the incinerator. Funerals are unhappy and pagan? Eliminate them, too....We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the constitution says, but everyone made equal . . . A book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take the shot from the weapon. Breach man’s mind."

-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

 

[Saint Tacky 1,610]

2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I mean if you mean by cooperate to just agree 100 percent with all the demands that is just compliance not cooperation.

I believe you confuse compliance with capitulation. My point is only that if the alma mater is the price, take the deal. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,865]

 

[MillerEP 30,350]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/georgia-marching-band-will-no-longer-perform-taras-theme-from-gone-with-the-wind-following-football/

Georgia marching band will no longer perform 'Tara's Theme' from 'Gone With the Wind' following football games

Instead, the band will perform 'Georgia on My Mind'

[Newy25 7,638]

3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

If that's the case, expect a divided team at the end of every football game. Staying and singing will be left up to the players, and most of them are going to leave the field while others sing what they perceive to be a racist song with a largely white crowd. So it's gonna be great.

You think most of the team will not sing the song? Would you care to wager? 

[maninblack 7,974]

2 hours ago, Nope said:

[MirrOlure 14,645]

44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not nonsense.

In the context he/she used it, that is exactly what it is.....nonsense.

[Js1 85,152]

Good God, Georgia and Florida have done better than we have.

And those two barely have a full set of teeth and chromosomes combined. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,865]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Good God, Georgia and Florida have done better than we have.

And those two barely have a full set of teeth and chromosomes combined. 

Players all see it.

 

[Veerbone 116]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Orangebloods now has a bunch of old whitey's so pissed they are clammoring to do away with UT athletics or scholarship athletics as a whole.  Seriously, the Boomers (at least many of them) just need to fucking die off already.

So COVID-19 is actually saving CFB?

Edited June 18, 2020 by Veerbone

[Huckleberry 32,710]

11 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

You think most of the team will not sing the song? Would you care to wager? 

What are the parameters of this bet? Unfortunately there would be a lot of IFs involved.

[927 E. 41st 1,124]

It's starting to look like the Paramount theatre will have to be torn down.

[Valmy77 13,125]

1 minute ago, 927 E. 41st said:

It's starting to look like the Paramount theatre will have to be torn down.

Bummer. But what does that have to do with our football program?

[Apex73 313]

36 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

I believe you confuse compliance with capitulation. My point is only that if the alma mater is the price, take the deal. 

Then what would your limit be?

[Valmy77 13,125]

7 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Then what would your limit be?

Personally it would be changing the name of our university to The University of Southern Oklahoma.

[Apex73 313]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I doubt the song is going anywhere long term. Personally, I don’t care a great deal. But enough people do. I just don’t see it dying.

On the other hand, if the players aren’t satisfied with alums like Brian Jones talking sense into them, I could see CDC instructing the band to just not play it until this blows over, so that we won’t have fans booing players and a real shitshow on our hands. I’m not interested in a song creating any division between the team and fans, or amongst players/coaches themselves.  If fans start booing the lack of Eyes being played, that’s on us to self police. 

Yea I also think football time changes things.  A lot easier to be united then when you have a common goal.

[MirrOlure 14,645]

31 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Players all see it.

 

I'm not saying dropping "Gator Bait" (at least officially.....100% certainty that it will be chanted often and by 1,000's at every game, tailgate, watch party, etc....but that's beside the point) isn't significant....but if one doesn't recognize the difference between ditching a two word chant that's been used since 1990-something, and ditching a school's Alma Mater, then I guess that is a sign as to where this, and a whole lot of other issues, is headed.

[BrazilHorn 6,577]

Just now, MirrOlure said:

I'm not saying dropping "Gator Bait" (at least officially.....100% certainty that it will be chanted often and by 1,000's at every game, tailgate, watch party, etc....but that's beside the point) isn't significant....but if one doesn't recognize the difference between ditching a two word chant that's been used since 1990-something, and ditching a school's Alma Mater, then I guess that is a sign as to where this, and a whole lot of other issues, is headed.

I think the optics just look better. It feels like Texas (CDC/Hartzell) are in pursuit of perfection vs a good start.

There is also zero way to enforce the crowd themselves yelling "Gator Bait" but it certainly sounds good to not have cheerleaders start the cheer themselves.

Texas needs to move faster here, start announcing some of the changes the players have requested and get moving.

[MirrOlure 14,645]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

I think the optics just look better. It feels like Texas (CDC/Hartzell) are in pursuit of perfection vs a good start.

There is also zero way to enforce the crowd themselves yelling "Gator Bait" but it certainly sounds good to not have cheerleaders start the cheer themselves.

Texas needs to move faster here, start announcing some of the changes the players have requested and get moving.

Agreed on all points.....unless there is some archaic state law that prohibits immediate action, they should be removing the names from the buildings yesterday.  And then discover a few more outside the list that they can remove as well.

[Jacob McCandles 202]

1 hour ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The Cowboy's minstrel shows were not the first minstrel shows at Texas.

I know. I was responding to a poster who asked if "“The Eyes” was exclusively a minstrel/black faced Cowboys application for an extended period of time". It was not, as the song pre-dates the organization by 20 years. As best as I can tell, the facts got blurred when the professor filmed part of his "history of racism at UT" video at the Cowboy Pavilion at the Alumni Center, and noted that the Cowboys organized minstrel shows and The Eyes was first performed at a minstrel show. Perhaps he did not bother to check the actual timeline or ignored the actual timeline in order to help his cause (i.e. it is much easier to garner support by pointing at an organization with a history of suspensions vs. "the Varsity Minstrel Show", which likely has been defunct for 80 years). Once the professor's video hit social media, it ran like wildfire and became "true." That one inaccuracy in the timeline changed the narrative to make it one of modern-day, institutional racism (i.e. The Eyes was first performed at the Cowboy Minstrel Show, which included performers in black-face as late as the 1960's, continued into at least the mid 1980's, and was organized by a University-sponsored spirit organization in existence until 2019).

Do I think The Eyes is racist? No. Based on my review of the facts, I believe the song was written by students to poke fun at the University president at the time. Like students of all generations, they used then-relevant music and forums to deliver the parody. The delivery does not make the song racist; it makes the delivery racist. If Waylon and Willie sang Luckenbach in black-face, it wouldn't make the song racist; but they'd be cancelled (as the kids say), although Kimmel, Fallon, Behar, Stern, and others have been pardoned, so who knows. I am all for condemning the original delivery. Put a message on the University's Web page about Texas Traditions condemning the delivery and providing links to organizations committed to ending racism. But also announce to everyone that, as others have mentioned, setting aside any debate as to its origins, The Eyes at some point organically morphed into a song/ceremony that serves to unite every graduate and fan of The University of Texas at any sporting event or University program/gathering. 

 

 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Here's CDC's comments. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29329859/meeting-football-team-had-tremendous-dialogue-topic-inclusion

I'm all for changes being made but CDC and Hartzell should be given an opportunity to engage all the teams and organizations (like they referenced in this article). It's not about being first it's about finding real solutions. The football team isn't the only team on campus and other Black athletes have a voice. 

It sounds like changes are definitely coming but both CDC and Hartzell are just doing their due diligence by actually listening and engaging. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I doubt the song is going anywhere long term. Personally, I don’t care a great deal. But enough people do. I just don’t see it dying.

On the other hand, if the players aren’t satisfied with alums like Brian Jones talking sense into them, I could see CDC instructing the band to just not play it until this blows over, so that we won’t have fans booing players and a real shitshow on our hands. I’m not interested in a song creating any division between the team and fans, or amongst players/coaches themselves.  If fans start booing the lack of Eyes being played, that’s on us to self police. 

I don't know about short term or long term, but I agree with your scenario. I think this shit could go sideways if fans (stupid ones) boo players for not singing the Eyes or something like that. I hope cooler heads prevail and past players bring the team together over the Eyes, but it just seems the cats out of the bag already. And with other schools quickly removing things in Florida, Virginia, etc. The longer we fight this, the more Aggy we look. 

[my capital people tell me they don't think it goes away, but these are more old guard types, and I don't think they're really seeing how bad this could look...yet]

Edited June 18, 2020 by Neonmoon

[W0244 Jester 104]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

What are the parameters of this bet? Unfortunately there would be a lot of IFs involved.

Loser must give $5 billion to BLM since the endowment sharing idea was “i for my head caught in a hydraulic press” level bad. 

[BabaYaga 15,215]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I didn’t want a goddamned riot in my house. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

13 minutes ago, Jacob McCandles said:

I know. I was responding to a poster who asked if "“The Eyes” was exclusively a minstrel/black faced Cowboys application for an extended period of time". It was not, as the song pre-dates the organization by 20 years. As best as I can tell, the facts got blurred when the professor filmed part of his "history of racism at UT" video at the Cowboy Pavilion at the Alumni Center, and noted that the Cowboys organized minstrel shows and The Eyes was first performed at a minstrel show. Perhaps he did not bother to check the actual timeline or ignored the actual timeline in order to help his cause (i.e. it is much easier to garner support by pointing at an organization with a history of suspensions vs. "the Varsity Minstrel Show", which likely has been defunct for 80 years). Once the professor's video hit social media, it ran like wildfire and became "true." That one inaccuracy in the timeline changed the narrative to make it one of modern-day, institutional racism (i.e. The Eyes was first performed at the Cowboy Minstrel Show, which included performers in black-face as late as the 1960's, continued into at least the mid 1980's, and was organized by a University-sponsored spirit organization in existence until 2019).

Do I think The Eyes is racist? No. Based on my review of the facts, I believe the song was written by students to poke fun at the University president at the time. Like students of all generations, they used then-relevant music and forums to deliver the parody. The delivery does not make the song racist; it makes the delivery racist. If Waylon and Willie sang Luckenbach in black-face, it wouldn't make the song racist; but they'd be cancelled (as the kids say), although Kimmel, Fallon, Behar, Stern, and others have been pardoned, so who knows. I am all for condemning the original delivery. Put a message on the University's Web page about Texas Traditions condemning the delivery and providing links to organizations committed to ending racism. But also announce to everyone that, as others have mentioned, setting aside any debate as to its origins, The Eyes at some point organically morphed into a song/ceremony that serves to unite every graduate and fan of The University of Texas at any sporting event or University program/gathering. 

 

 

I think this the major sticking point for some. I'm guessing the players and all black people do not agree with you. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is some that say the song has evolved since then. But I think the people wanting the song gone do not think the delivery can be separated from the song. You may use any analogy you want to try and separate the two, but I just don't think you're going to convince one side. 

[JOSEYWALES66 1,790]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The longer we fight this, the more Aggy we look. 

Discussing the issues isn't fighting.  It's what I would expect/want from UT alums.  

[David Dennison 18,694]

1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

You think most of the team will not sing the song? Would you care to wager? 

That's what I think, and no.

[W0244 Jester 104]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Doubt it. Old timers are being replaced by corporate ticket buyers and transplants, who decidedly do not care. The students won’t care. I predict heavy financial adverse impact over Covid until it dies down. 

On this note, my 69 yo dad and 65 yo mom are “through” with Texas football without the Eyes. My ten yo son didn’t understand and I had to explain to him that they’re set in their ways, and that the black players have some valid points, but that I did not believe the Eyes were one of them. I told him that the song in and of itself isn’t worth getting into a tizzy about, and his grandparents were being ridiculous. But, I wasn’t about to call them out on it, because they agreed with the building name changes, kind of agreed about Whittier, and disagreed on BLM. It just created an opportunity for me to tell my son why this is happening and why it’s important. 

I failed to tell them zork from Surlyhorns.com wanted to devote half our endowment to be spent on payments to Ramonce Taylor and Rashad Bobino and BLM and other social programs. I didn’t want a goddamned riot in my house. 

Maybe you haven’t seen the news, but we look the other way on riots now.  It’s ok. People are stressed and feel hurt.  If you want to flip and burn cars or loot Versace in Chicago or burn a Wendy’s to the ground, it’s ok. 

[BabaYaga 15,215]

7 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I don't know about short term or long term, but I agree with your scenario. I think this shit could go sideways if fans (stupid ones) boo players for not singing the Eyes or something like that. I hope cooler heads prevail and past players bring the team together over the Eyes, but it just seems the cats out of the bag already. And with other schools quickly removing things in Florida, Virginia, etc. The longer we fight this, the more Aggy we look. 

[my capital people tell me they don't think it goes away, but these are more old guard types, and I don't think they're really seeing how bad this could look...yet]

I'm not worried about boo's from singing or not singing - I'm worried the players get what they want, then shit the bed during the season, and get the crap boo'd out of them for playing awful....and start sulking, crying foul, playing the victim card, etc.  

[W0244 Jester 104]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm not worried about boo's from singing or not singing - I'm worried the players get what they want, then shit the bed during the season, and get the crap boo'd out of them for playing awful....and start sulking, crying foul, playing the victim card, etc.  

This is a good point.  

[BrazilHorn 6,577]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm not worried about boo's from singing or not singing - I'm worried the players get what they want, then shit the bed during the season, and get the crap boo'd out of them for playing awful....and start sulking, crying foul, playing the victim card, etc.  

Assuming there is A) a season and B) fans in the stands. I could absolutely see this scenario happening. This team (and staff) has not proven themselves to have a lot of mental toughness to begin with (not because of the issues being raised by team now - rather shit like 3rd & 17 give up, defensive offsides on roach, goal line stupidity etc)

They lose to LSU & OU and this program is dead man walking regardless of Herman's contract.