Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[bad_teammate 13,145]

3 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

This is never going to happen regardless of what happens with the song.  Their will always be top tier talent that will play for UT.  You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think any different.

Option A: #1 classes in the Big 12 without The Eyes
Option B: #3 classes in the Big 12 with The Eyes

They'll break their hands slamming the Option A button.

And if we lose players over The Eyes and send the message that we don't listen, #3 is generous for Option B.

[Apex73 313]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Option A: #1 classes in the Big 12 without The Eyes
Option B: #3 classes in the Big 12 with The Eyes

They'll break their hands slamming the Option A button.

And if we lose players over The Eyes and send the message that we don't listen, #3 is generous for Option B.

Like I said, I completely disagree.  Certainly doesn't seem to be affecting recruiting.  

[bad_teammate 13,145]

"In 10 miles I'm going to drive off the cliff!"

- "That will kill us!"

"Hasn't killed us yet!"

[Apex73 313]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"In 10 miles I'm going to drive off the cliff!"

- "That will kill us!"

"Hasn't killed us yet!"

No evidence to suggest this is the case other than Overshown taking his ball and going home which I'd be willing to bet changes.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

And no, I'm not equivocating me using strong and confrontational language with the struggle of black people. I'm just an asshole for no reason and I think a lot of old money white people are terrified of a level playing field, and I think that's bitch made.

Wrong. Racial based quotas irrespective of merit is the new gold standard for aggrieved minorities. See what is going on with the UC system and them ditching the SAT/ACT. Instead of fixing the failing K-12 schools most blacks and Latinos attend and where real impact can be made, feel good measures of applying blanket admissions irrespective of merit and competency. NYT has advocated for an end to legacy admissions. It’s not a level playing field that they’re after. Brute force hiring and college acceptance quotas - witness Adidas commitment to hire 30% blacks. @BradInATX you’re not going to like the world where your  kids and grandkids are actively discriminated against from opportunities because of the color of their skin and background. Wait and see. The backlash is coming.

[bad_teammate 13,145]

And the tremendous support Overshown has received in replies.

Even 1 player saying he's going to tear up his meal ticket is significant, because it's extremely hard for them to make that sacrifice, but if I'm a 5-star who can have any school then the stakes are much lower and a silly little mark like this can make a huge difference in the hat game.

There's just no reason for it. Current and former athletes across sports have said they want it gone. It's time for it to go. All stubborn alums are going to accomplish at this point is division. These alums are not going to help the team win and they aren't relevant for on-campus unity.

The stubborn alums need to go through their grieving process privately, quickly, and quietly so we can get to the other side whole.

[Pancho 44,535]

Failing K-12 schools in Black and Latinx areas can be traced back to a lack of $$$$ compared to suburban area K-12 school districts. 

Only an idiot would think “racial based quotas” do not take into account merit.

If a White poster (assuming Brad is White) is not going to like a world where his kids and grandkids are actively discriminated against opportunities because of the color of their skin, I wonder how actual minorities feel about that happening in the past and currently?

[futureman 22,423]

5 hours ago, BradInATX said:

The time of fragile white men getting to tell people what they're allowed to be offended by is slowly coming to an end.

what an odd thing to say.  

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,784]

And the tremendous support Overshown has received in replies.
Even 1 player saying he's going to tear up his meal ticket is significant, because it's extremely hard for them to make that sacrifice, but if I'm a 5-star who can have any school then the stakes are much lower and a silly little mark like this can make a huge difference in the hat game.
There's just no reason for it. Current and former athletes across sports have said they want it gone. It's time for it to go. All stubborn alums are going to accomplish at this point is division. These alums are not going to help the team win and they aren't relevant for on-campus unity.
The stubborn alums need to go through their grieving process privately, quickly, and quietly so we can get to the other side whole.

So everyone should just shut up and realize that the football players will control the University from here on out and the other 49,915. Students and hundreds of thousands of alums just need to get over it

[BradInATX 9,208]

Haha you absolutely have no room to talk about a lack of perspective or making sustainable arguments.  Your entire argument is "your racist" if you don't agree without any evidence of anyone being racist.  Absolutely no logic in that whatsoever.  

You're *

[BradInATX 9,208]

 

 

 

. [mention=2008]BradInATX[/mention] you’re not going to like the world where your  kids and grandkids are actively discriminated against from opportunities because of the color of their skin and background. Wait and see. The backlash is coming.

 

I'm not at all worried about this. But I'm also not a giant terrified pussy. I usually win, but it's more rewarding when it's fair.

[Knighthawk 284]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

3 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

....and you’ll continue to presume, generalize and label. Time to wrap the brisket. Peace

Post the after on the smoking thread. I have a pork butt on that's got a mind of it's own. Fighting the urge to foil it through the stall.

Don’t do it.  Low and slow.  Last one I tried 250 F to avoid the 18 hour marathon.  

[BradInATX 9,208]

Don’t do it.  Low and slow.  Last one I tried 250 F to avoid the 18 hour marathon.  

This is the motivation I needed to persist. Onward.

[89Horn 1,494]

8 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So everyone should just shut up and realize that the football players will control the University from here on out and the other 49,915. Students and hundreds of thousands of alums just need to get over it

Well, no not necessarily.  If the sentiments are shared by the overwhelming number of black players on the team, we could just tell them to take a hike to OU and other schools.  I imagine we could tell the black basketball and track and field players to take a hike too if they agree with the football players.  Then we could put all our focus on baseball, tennis, and swimming and diving.  Or, if we are really optimistic, the future all white football team could tell the 1970 team and alums “hold my beer.”

[Apex73 313]

19 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not at all worried about this. But I'm also not a giant terrified pussy. I usually win, but it's more rewarding when it's fair.

Really?  Couldn't tell from the content in your other posts.  

[bad_teammate 13,145]

15 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So everyone should just shut up and realize that the football players will control the University from here on out and the other 49,915. Students and hundreds of thousands of alums just need to get over it

Not "the University" as a whole. That's a melodramatic exaggeration intended to distract from the issue.

What we're talking about is singing a song at a football game and, yes, what the football players (former and current) decide should be determinative. And I realize you're using the massive numbers of alums/students to make it seem like the players are alone and we are all unified against them, but you're extremely wrong and, once again, employing melodramatic exaggeration to distract from the issue.

The more probable reality is that the current students will stand overwhelmingly with the current and former athletes and you'll see a gradiation away from supporting the older the alumni base which... should pretty much tell us all we need to know regarding the motivations behind keeping the song.

The Aggies already showed us what it's like to have old white alums doing the school chant/song AT black current students.

The idea of our old white alums singing our song AT black athletes who we know don't want to hear it is intolerable. It can't happen. It's too Aggie.

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Not "the University" as a whole. That's a melodramatic exaggeration intended to distract from the issue.

What we're talking about is singing a song at a football game and, yes, what the football players (former and current) decide should be determinative. And I realize you're using the massive numbers of alums/students to make it seem like the players are alone and we are all unified against them, but you're extremely wrong and, once again, employing melodramatic exaggeration to distract from the issue.

The more probable reality is that the current students will stand overwhelmingly with the current and former athletes and you'll see a gradiation away from supporting the older the alumni base which... should pretty much tell us all we need to know regarding the motivations behind keeping the song.

The Aggies already showed us what it's like to have old white alums doing the school chant/song AT black current students.

The idea of our old white alums singing our song AT black athletes who we know don't want to hear it is intolerable. It can't happen. It's too Aggie.

 

It's going to happen and it's going to be a thing and it's going to be embarrassing. I know you already know this, though. It's going to be like the grown men that say "make em eat shit" with children all around them then triumphantly look around to see who heard them, but on a whole new plane of stupid.

[bullet 1,596]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:09 PM, Neonmoon said:

You think someone who gives money is untouchable. That’s a terrible take. Changing politics? It’s a little more complicated than that. 
 

Leave the Epstein statue up boys, he donated money! And we like money. If we don’t let the racist donate money, we would be sooo poor. 

What a moronic comparison.

Everybody knew Littlefield was a Confederate.  Virtually everyone in the state of his age at that time was.  And he was honored because of what he did for the university in the 1900s, not because he enlisted to defend his state at age 18.

[bullet 1,596]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:33 PM, Valmy77 said:

I mean you are also out there tossing out strawmen like somebody out there is claiming this is going to solve all problems and displaying contempt for people based on your strawman. Oh and ad hominem attacks based on age. Not exactly impressive logic and convincing points.

Not that "boomer" is great or anything.

Well he's old enough to have learned he didn't know nearly as much as he thought he did at age 22.  There's a reason males under 25 pay astronomical auto rates.  Its because they tend to do stupid things.

[bullet 1,596]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:31 AM, Veerbone said:

If we have learned anything so far during this epidemic, it’s that there are no facts.

Educated guesses at best.

And that many people are too stupid to understand that.  And that particular stupidity is not confined to males under 25.

[bad_teammate 13,145]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

It's going to happen and it's going to be a thing and it's going to be embarrassing.

The hope here is that the singing of The Eyes is pretty ritualistic and without the gathering of the team and the call over the speakers to turn attention and sing along, we won't just spontaneously start doing it because that's not how we've done it in the past.

So that's my hope.

Otherwise...

[BradInATX 9,208]

The hope here is that the singing of The Eyes is pretty ritualistic and without the gathering of the team and the call over the speakers to turn attention and sing along, we won't just spontaneously start doing it because that's not how we've done it in the past.
So that's my hope.
Otherwise...

I'm just happy to know you watch football. Can we debate the power spread vs. air raid next? I bet you're an air raid soy boy.

[bullet 1,596]

On 7/3/2020 at 6:09 PM, David Dennison said:

Speaking of Washington & Lee . . . 

 

The student body?  10 or 12 of them?

If it really is more than a handful, that's a pretty big step for that school.

 

[notre dame joe 173]

8 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

No, I'm not talking about what's right or what's okay. I'm talking about reality, and the reality is if you don't want to risk pissing off a highly specialized labor community you rely on and cannot replace then you're going to have to make sacrifices to keep them happy. At least sacrifices comparable to the rest of your competition. If other competitors are changing in ways that are perceived to remove racism and you refuse to change in a way that is perceived racist by this specialized labor force then you risk not having the ability to be competitive. 

Are you really willing to risk being blackballed by the highest levels of talent from this specialized and unreplaceable labor force over a song? That is what the University administration is having to consider.

I don't know whether the song has racist tones in it's lyrics or not, and neither do you because neither of us were there when it was created. We are going off of stories that could have been manipulated. But even if there are no racist tones in the lyrics the fact that your specialized labor force believe so means you may have to change it anyway. I know it's tough for White America to understand but sometimes you have to make sacrifices even if you are right. 

I absolutely agree.  It's time for you to sacrifice the dumbest 25% of raced based accusations.  You don't want to alienate the top big money donors over a song that might have sounded similar to something racist over 100 years ago. 

[bullet 1,596]

4 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Which is why the "don't force the issue" argument fails. Even if big cigar doesn't get rid of it immediately, it's a dead song walking. Activism works. It just needs some teeth. 

And baseball players got a lot of what they wanted with their strikes.  And dealt the sport a slow dying death.

[bad_teammate 13,145]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm just happy to know you watch football. Can we debate the power spread vs. air raid next? I bet you're an air raid soy boy.

I just want to win. I don't care how we do it.

[bullet 1,596]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

"In 10 miles I'm going to drive off the cliff!"

- "That will kill us!"

"Hasn't killed us yet!"

That may be what those players are doing.

[bullet 1,596]

2 hours ago, Pancho said:

Failing K-12 schools in Black and Latinx areas can be traced back to a lack of $$$$ compared to suburban area K-12 school districts. 

Only an idiot would think “racial based quotas” do not take into account merit.

If a White poster (assuming Brad is White) is not going to like a world where his kids and grandkids are actively discriminated against opportunities because of the color of their skin, I wonder how actual minorities feel about that happening in the past and currently?

The inner city schools spend more when combined with federal $$ than the suburban districts.  Often, much more.  The issue is not $$$$.

What you said is off topic and more spin room and I wouldn't respond, but you are spouting off something totally false.  

[bullet 1,596]

1 hour ago, 89Horn said:

Well, no not necessarily.  If the sentiments are shared by the overwhelming number of black players on the team, we could just tell them to take a hike to OU and other schools.  I imagine we could tell the black basketball and track and field players to take a hike too if they agree with the football players.  Then we could put all our focus on baseball, tennis, and swimming and diving.  Or, if we are really optimistic, the future all white football team could tell the 1970 team and alums “hold my beer.”

If they are the all or nothing type, maybe that's not the type player we want.

Now if its a respectful conversation where maybe they don't get everything they want but get a good bit, that's the ideal solution.

[bullet 1,596]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I just want to win. I don't care how we do it.

Then become an Alabama fan!

Now if you didn't care how you did it, but didn't mind not winning because you get moral victories, become an aggy fan.

[LTtxfan 49,015]

35 minutes ago, bullet said:

The student body?  10 or 12 of them?

If it really is more than a handful, that's a pretty big step for that school.

 

 

Here's an interesting part of the Washington & Lee name change saga...

"Faculty members have been circulating a petition calling for the name to be changed for several days and more than 200 have signed on, said James Casey, a professor of economics and a 1991 graduate of the university."

[Goodman 3,273]

12 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Here's an interesting part of the Washington & Lee name change saga...

"Faculty members have been circulating a petition calling for the name to be changed for several days and more than 200 have signed on, said James Casey, a professor of economics and a 1991 graduate of the university."

I believe you meant predictable, not interesting. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

2 hours ago, bullet said:

What a moronic comparison.

Everybody knew Littlefield was a Confederate.  Virtually everyone in the state of his age at that time was.  And he was honored because of what he did for the university in the 1900s, not because he enlisted to defend his state at age 18.

Oh I didn’t know he did good stuff for the University. Let’s ignore his confederate stuff and his instance on building confederate statues to promote the confederacy. He donated money for Godsake! Respect his donation 

[Valmy77 13,125]

30 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Oh I didn’t know he did good stuff for the University. Let’s ignore his confederate stuff and his instance on building confederate statues to promote the confederacy. He donated money for Godsake! Respect his donation 

You know who wasn't a Confederate in this state at his age? The other big donor, George Brackenridge. Should have let him put Lincoln statues up. Sure it would have been a little controversial back in 1883 but much better today.

[Pancho 44,535]

2 hours ago, bullet said:

The inner city schools spend more when combined with federal $$ than the suburban districts.  Often, much more.  The issue is not $$$$.

What you said is off topic and more spin room and I wouldn't respond, but you are spouting off something totally false.  

No it’s not false.  I never specified what type of $$$$ separates urban vs suburban school districts.  You assumed that on your own. 

This issue is 100% $$$$$ and any idiot knows that. 

[notre dame joe 173]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Oh I didn’t know he did good stuff for the University. Let’s ignore his confederate stuff and his instance on building confederate statues to promote the confederacy. He donated money for Godsake! Respect his donation 

No, honors should go to the people who had the right opinions.  It's better if they did absolutely nothing except talk.  Doing things makes enemies who can be rebranded as victims.

[Duane Moore 5,237]

7 hours ago, Pancho said:

No it’s not false.  I never specified what type of $$$$ separates urban vs suburban school districts.  You assumed that on your own. 

This issue is 100% $$$$$ and any idiot knows that. 

Getting off topic here, but a brief data point on this issue:  

Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robot- ics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-298.pdf

To be clear, I’d like to see schools get equal funding, but am not convinced that money is 100% of the problem. 

[Pancho 44,535]

1 hour ago, Duane Moore said:

Getting off topic here, but a brief data point on this issue:  

Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robot- ics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-298.pdf

To be clear, I’d like to see schools get equal funding, but am not convinced that money is 100% of the problem. 

You too are missing the point on money, and it’s blatant in the article you posted.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

7 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

No, honors should go to the people who had the right opinions.  It's better if they did absolutely nothing except talk.  Doing things makes enemies who can be rebranded as victims.

Hahah this was a good strawman. Maybe we should honor people who deserve to be honored, for as you said “doing things” and not whatever rich asshole wants his name on a building. If all we do is name buildings after rich donors, that pretty much makes us whores. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

11 minutes ago, Pancho said:

You too are missing the point on money, and it’s blatant in the article you posted.

Everyone knows the issue that separates good schools from bad is the level of parental involvement in education. The parents who value education and impart the importance of it to get ahead will have kids going to good schools. Poor Asian kids are kicking ass in NYC speciality and talented and gifted schools and have EARNED far more seats than their percentage of the population. That’s a problem for the mayor who thinks that the composition of such schools should match the racial breakdown of the city which has nothing to do with merit.

[Pancho 44,535]

There’s connecting research to that, yes.

But once again, you’re an idiot if you that’s the ONLY issue.

Lets get this thread back on topic.

[Duane Moore 5,237]

12 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Everyone knows the issue that separates good schools from bad is the level of parental involvement in education. The parents who value education and impart the importance of it to get ahead will have kids going to good schools. Poor Asian kids are kicking ass in NYC speciality and talented and gifted schools and have EARNED far more seats than their percentage of the population. That’s a problem for the mayor who thinks that the composition of such schools should match the racial breakdown of the city which has nothing to do with merit.

Not just Asians benefitting from the charter schools in NYC, African-American kids doing significantly better in them by every metric as well. Thomas Sowell has a new book out on it. 
 

Charter Schools and Their Enemies https://www.amazon.com/dp/1541675134/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_t9DaFb34D65TN

 

[Duane Moore 5,237]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

There’s connecting research to that, yes.

But once again, you’re an idiot if you that’s the ONLY issue.

Lets get this thread back on topic.

Quite right, sorry for the diversion. 
 

[Duane Moore 5,237]

I wonder if the delays in tangible movement on the list of demands by the players is partly due to the sclerotic process of the getting official changes through the BOR, and also CDC looking to make a Grand Bargain. He may be working towards and outcome where they can announce that they are agreeing to 90% of the players’ demands, and then reach a Babers/Jones type of compromise on singing The Eyes. The players will be able to rightfully claim that they have effected meaningful change at the University, and the fan base that loves the unique tradition of singing The Eyes will be able to have it carry on in a way that gets us beyond the stigma.

[Pancho 44,535]

3 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

I wonder if the delays in tangible movement on the list of demands by the players is partly due to the sclerotic process of the getting official changes through the BOR, and also CDC looking to make a Grand Bargain. He may be working towards and outcome where they can announce that they are agreeing to 90% of the players’ demands, and then reach a Babers/Jones type of compromise on singing The Eyes. The players will be able to rightfully claim that they have effected meaningful change at the University, and the fan base that loves the unique tradition of singing The Eyes will be able to have it carry on in a way that gets us beyond the stigma.

I’ve always thought the slowness of change is because we have an interim President at UT right now.

[Duane Moore 5,237]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’ve always thought the slowness of change is because we have an interim President at UT right now.

Definitely has to be a factor as well. That poor guy, walking into the job under these unprecedented circumstances. They should name a building after him if he gets us through this mess. 

[CooterBrown 17,943]

Getting off topic here, but a brief data point on this issue:  
Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robot- ics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-298.pdf
To be clear, I’d like to see schools get equal funding, but am not convinced that money is 100% of the problem. 

Years ago, there was a Dateline story about an urban district that had been throwing money at schools within little progress. What they then tried was shrinking school size. They took a large urban school and split it in half. IIRC, in the new school, there were only 200 or so kids per grade. They further segregated FR and SOs from the JRs and SRs. They didn’t increase funding but like a hundred a head to account for a few more positions. Within a couple of years, test scores and graduation rates went up significantly. They attributed it to at risk kids were no longer able to get lost in the crowd, everyone knew everyone so there were fewer problems between students and peer accountability went up, teachers started to really get to know the students better and were more engaged with them. I wish I could remember where it was and to see the long term results. I think it was Minneapolis but I’m not sure.

[B00M 6,280]

15 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Not "the University" as a whole. That's a melodramatic exaggeration intended to distract from the issue.

What we're talking about is singing a song at a football game and, yes, what the football players (former and current) decide should be determinative.

 

Since we want to be accurate, it's sung at a whole shit load more events than just football games. 

As fond as I am of The Eyes, I'm open to new songs. I've always that it was a little embarrassing that it was to the tune of I've Been Working on the Railroad

 

[Alien Octopus 505]

On 7/4/2020 at 8:29 AM, BradInATX said:

Look, Black America, we're going to need you to stop being so uppity and demanding instant change. As the last 250 years have shown, if you just have a little patience and compliance and trust in the affluent white oligarchs who run this country, you'll be well on your way to social equality. We promise. Now, shut up and go beat the hell out of each other without a wage, to enrich and entertain us.

 

 

 

Please take the knee and absolve yourself of your white guilt.

[Armybrat 40,755]

49 minutes ago, B00M said:

Since we want to be accurate, it's sung at a whole shit load more events than just football games. 

As fond as I am of The Eyes, I'm open to new songs. I've always that it was a little embarrassing that it was to the tune of I've Been Working on the Railroad

 

Same here. It has been the butt of jokes since I was in school.