Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

16 minutes ago, GTNY said:

@bad_teammateYou seem to be taking this really personally and have very strong beliefs the eyes shouldn't be used. Regardless of my personal opinion, you seem to be stuck on "it was used at a minstrel show" for your basis. Where do you draw the line in other aspects of your life? Will you never buy a volkswagon because it was a nazi company or has it transformed beyond that? What about all the other numerous examples or companies connected to ugly pasts?  

Hypocrisy is his currency.  Common sense his kryptonite

Same idiot that equated a construction worker whistling at woman to "rape" on TOS.  He the white knight of faux victim-hood and a hateful bigot.

Edited October 14, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[The Doctor 108]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Hypocrisy is his currency.  Common sense his kryptonite

Same idiot that equated a construction worker whistling at woman to "rape" on TOS.  He the white knight of faux victim-hood and a hateful bigot.

No he isn't. Come off that B.S. Don't call this man a bigot over this topic because you disagree with him. Debate with some dignity.        

[Lam, Ham & Jam 26]

What kind of head coach would allow his team leader and quarterback to stand alone to sing the school's alma mater after a game?

[GTNY 280]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

- I am not "stuck" on anything. The song was written as a tribute to a guy quoting Lee and it was originally performed at a minstrel show. Those are historical facts. Those historical facts don't make ME feel offended by the song, but then again my people were not the target of Lee or minstrelsy.

So until the black Longhorn community communicates in some way that it's 100% cool with The Eyes, then The Eyes isn't doing the job of an Alma Mater.

And my own cherished memories involving The Eyes aren't subject to anyone else's approval or disapproval. I don't need anyone else's validation.

I will buy German cars, but I respect the many Jews who refuse to.

I can't really think of anything that's happened to me or my people like slavery or the Holocaust, so I'm not going to sit here and act like what you're saying makes any sense for me.

You are "stuck" on this. You think it gives validity to any claim the song is racist. You are "stuck on" its origin. I'm not debating its historical fact. I think the song has moved significantly past it given 99.9% of people who sung it over the last 30+ years had no idea. You can say the black community feels different (which I'm not arguing) but you can't say you're not stuck on it, because its the whole basis of your argument - you even use it two bullet points later! "who don't find singing a song inspired by Lee and introduced to use at a minstrel show to be a uniting experience." You don't think the song has moved past its origins - you are "stuck" on that point. 

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So until the black Longhorn community communicates in some way that it's 100% cool with The Eyes, then The Eyes isn't doing the job of an Alma Mater.

What about the black Longhorns who have come out in support of the song? Do we have to appease every single one? (Again, just trying to understand your view on where you draw the line)

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I will buy German cars, but I respect the many Jews who refuse to.

I can't really think of anything that's happened to me or my people like slavery or the Holocaust, so I'm not going to sit here and act like what you're saying makes any sense for me.

These two sentences are contradictions - you can't say you respect someone for not doing it (thereby understanding them) and then in the next sentence say what I'm saying makes no sense because you can't understand it.

[sheeeit 129]

On 10/12/2020 at 5:03 PM, immamac said:

Vehemently disagreeing with it and defending your position is absolutely something that should be done. 

Saying the guy doesn't possess critical thinking skills or is otherwise incapable of understanding why it isn't racist is crossing a line. 

Saying you don't think the eyes is racist is a fine argument. Saying others need to share that sentiment because they feel racial oppressions from it is crossing a line. 

Defending whether or not this site is racist is absolutely on me, but I wouldn't ever say it wasn't because the people of color that post here think it isn't. That's bogus. I can talk about the sites mission and what we want to accomplish, and whoever thinks it's racist can bring that up or not come here. See how that works? 

Well that is a much more nuance  Props to you.

However, I think this creates a very tough position for you and some others on this thread (BT etc) that perhaps you do not realize.

At this point there are 3 camps of what people believe:

1) The song is not racist and those that think it is are manufacturing their outrage

2) The song is racist and it should not be sung anymore and should not be a song affiliated with UT

3) They do not personally believe the song is racist but understand why black people could think that it is and that no one should criticize them for having that opinion

You and BT etc have posted that you fall pretty squarely in camp 3.  I personally think this is a total cop out position and incredibly offensive to the people that you want to support.  Your words are completely empty when your actions are the opposite of what you say.  

All of you make claims that you personally do not think the song is racist and that you fully intend to keep singing the song and have no problem with anyone else continuing to sing the song.  BT said it will be played at his funeral.  So what you are guys are doing is saying with your words that you acknowledge that black people can find the song racist and you can validate their feelings about it, but you don't really care what they say or what they feel about it because you are going to keep singing it and playing it.  This is just classic coddling and patronizing and belittling.  

This is not arguing purely subjective things like who has the best football program or something similar.  This is a group of human beings saying they are offended by a song that they think is racist and you saying that you understand them and then inviting them over for dinner to play the song.  When people throw around words like racist and racism, there should not be any middle ground.  

Lets say you went to a friend or colleague or even a stranger and told them flatly that some act they were doing was incredibly offensive to you personally.  And then that person said something to the effect of "I understand where you are coming from.  I do not believe what you believe but I have no right to question how you feel because I do not have the same life experiences that you do"  You would rightfully think that was a good answer.  But if the next 10 times you were with that person they continued unabated doing the exact same thing you told them was personally offensive to you, I think you would rightfully think they were total assholes that actually did not care one bit that you were offended.

This is exactly what you guys are doing now.  Paying lip service to someone's feelings to their face and then continuing on with the practice.  You guys have made it abundantly clear that people that think the song is racist are not dumb or do not lack critical thinking skills or are misguided.  You have clearly said that you completely understand how that song can make them feel and then, in the same instance, say that you personally are going to just keep on singing and enjoying the song.  

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

No he isn't. Come off that B.S. Don't call this man a bigot over this topic because you disagree with him. Debate with some dignity.        

He's pretty much the definition of a hateful bigot.

[texashorne 1177]

I just found out the civil engineer that built the road near my house was a pedophile. Now I have to take a different route to work everyday. 

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

1 hour ago, GTNY said:

These two sentences are contradictions - you can't say you respect someone for not doing it (thereby understanding them) and then in the next sentence say what I'm saying makes no sense because you can't understand it.

Sure he can.  He's Dunning Kruger.  It's makes sense to him.  Ipso facto, it's reality.

The incompetent are by definition unable to perceive their incompetence.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

7 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I just found out the civil engineer that built the road near my house was a pedophile. Now I have to take a different route to work everyday. 

I heard he developed his pedophilia watching Sesame Street.

[BurntOrange&White 39700]

I wonder why Alabama or Ole Miss players aren’t protesting more against there school given the US government had to step in and aid without states help desegregation of their schools? This was only 55-60 years ago not over a hundred. 
 

I just can’t believe their players aren’t more woke and standing up for what is wrong in their school history?

 

 

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

We're not supposed to use the word _oke.

That said, we're no saints on desegregation, but once we did it, we went further and faster than any other big school in the former confederacy.

[BurntOrange&White 39700]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

We're not supposed to use the word _oke.

That said, we're no saints on desegregation, but once we did it, we went further and faster than any other big school in the former confederacy.

The US government didn’t have to invoke the insurrection act to do it on our campus did they? 

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I just can’t believe their players aren’t more woke and standing up for what is wrong in their school history?

Where is the player's outrage over the almost complete absence of African Americans in the IT Industry?  Pick something that really needs a light shone on it.  The more I think about it, I wonder how this whole thing started back in May.  Or, more likely, who started it, where did it come from?  We've all read the Alcalde article.  But that's been out there for years.  It's like this controversy simply exploded in to existence "from nowhere" despite the rightly just protests over all of the police murders this spring.

[TreatyOak 16158]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

You're in a tragically pathetic position of hoping powerful rich white men will punish these black guys for you because you're powerless and invisible. Just embarrassing stuff.

[bad_teammate 13139]

1 hour ago, GTNY said:

 You don't think the song has moved past its origins - you are "stuck" on that point. 

I have no idea what "moved past its origins" means. I don't think the song itself was racist in the past so what was there for it to even move past in the first place?

You want me to have the same personal emotional causes that Song Karen does and I just don't. I have sung and will sing the song among Longhorns who appreciate it. I won't perform it among those who don't. The song isn't dead to me personally at all, but as an Alma Mater it isn't doing the job.

I believe the job of the Alma Mater is unity. The Eyes fails that test right now.

Quote

What about the black Longhorns who have come out in support of the song? Do we have to appease every single one? (Again, just trying to understand your view on where you draw the line)

Your use of the word "appease" tells the story here. Unlike you, I respect the black Longhorns who don't approve of our Alma Mater. I also respect the black Longhorns who approve of our Alma Mater. I'm not going to pick a black person that agrees with me and say, "SEE!! THIS MEANS IT IS OK/NOT OK!!!!" in an act of desperate tokenism.

When a black Longhorn has a problem with The Eyes due to its history I don't see them as a force to "appease".

I have black friends who sing The Eyes and have for decades. I have zero black friends who have a problem with it (I'm old). Like me, they grew up with it without knowing its history and their hearts are set (like mine). I'm not going to tell them they should be offended or start pretending I am offended on their behalf.

Quote

These two sentences are contradictions - you can't say you respect someone for not doing it (thereby understanding them) and then in the next sentence say what I'm saying makes no sense because you can't understand it.

It makes no "sense for me". Learn to read.

I don't feel what they feel, but I can understand why they feel it. This isn't complicated.

46 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

3) They do not personally believe the song is racist but understand why black people could think that it is and that no one should criticize them for having that opinion

You just made this part up. I don't care who you criticize as long as you do it in a non-toxic, unoffensive way. I don't think people here should be blasting Longhorn athletes in nasty, personal ways where the whole world can see.

Intelligently criticizing arguments? Go for it. Have a great time.

What you're trying to do with the bolded strawman is make this like any other tired political argument about right to speech or whatever. Boring. Go to the CR with that.

Position #3 is this: They do not personally believe the song itself is racist but understand why black people would find it offensive because of its history

Quote

 So what you are guys are doing is saying with your words that you acknowledge that black people can find the song racist and you can validate their feelings about it, but you don't really care what they say or what they feel about it because you are going to keep singing it and playing it.

If everyone around is fine with The Eyes, we will sing it. If someone is not, we won't. This is just normal human decency so I can see why it confuses you guys.

Quote

This is a group of human beings saying they are offended by a song that they think is racist and you saying that you understand them and then inviting them over for dinner to play the song. 

You're making things up in your mind to get mad at. It's pathetic. You're a grown man. You should feel embarrassed.

[bad_teammate 13139]

15 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Where is the player's outrage over the almost complete absence of African Americans in the IT Industry?

"Why aren't these players doing better politics!?! Why aren't they more mature and effective!?" I, an older man, scream at my computer on a social message board under my Robert Anton Wilson pseudonym at younger people who don't know I exist.

[bad_teammate 13139]

An addendum to "we will only sing The Eyes around people who appreciate it" thing... I will absolutely sing it AT Aggies and Sooners to offend and disgust and outrage them, because they are scum and they deserve it.

[maninblack 7974]

Constant reminder that there's insane people and they will never stop trying to beat you down with their insanity

[GTNY 280]

48 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It makes no "sense for me". Learn to read.

If this is how you're trying to delineate things, you're simply saying "I don't care about personally supporting racist/discriminatory institutions as long as I wasn't the one persecuted"  which really explains a lot of your comments and is exactly what @sheeeit pointed out. 

To sum it up, I don't think the song is racist but am trying to understand peoples view points and how we can move forward. You think it's racist and don't care about using it for your personal use (but not at school), which is kind of like a racist person using the n word in private because no one in their friend group may care.

[Valmy77 13122]

7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

No one is asking you to stop singing The Eyes.

Stop claiming false victimhood.

I know I don't phrase things perfectly but I am kind of annoyed you twisted what I was saying this way.

I will stop claiming false victimhood, because I have never claimed victimhood.

And in any case I don't plan on singing the song anytime soon for the reasons I have stated over and over and over and over again in this thread. Its function as a unifying alma mater is finished, at least as things stand now. So why sing it?

That has nothing to do with the point about the large amount of songs that have ever been sung at minstrel shows though.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Valmy77

[Valmy77 13122]

55 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

An addendum to "we will only sing The Eyes around people who appreciate it" thing... I will absolutely sing it AT Aggies and Sooners to offend and disgust and outrage them, because they are scum and they deserve it.

That's weird. But you do you.

[immamac 42551]

2 hours ago, sheeeit said:

Well that is a much more nuance  Props to you.

However, I think this creates a very tough position for you and some others on this thread (BT etc) that perhaps you do not realize.

At this point there are 3 camps of what people believe:

1) The song is not racist and those that think it is are manufacturing their outrage

2) The song is racist and it should not be sung anymore and should not be a song affiliated with UT

3) They do not personally believe the song is racist but understand why black people could think that it is and that no one should criticize them for having that opinion

You and BT etc have posted that you fall pretty squarely in camp 3.  I personally think this is a total cop out position and incredibly offensive to the people that you want to support.  Your words are completely empty when your actions are the opposite of what you say.  

All of you make claims that you personally do not think the song is racist and that you fully intend to keep singing the song and have no problem with anyone else continuing to sing the song.  BT said it will be played at his funeral.  So what you are guys are doing is saying with your words that you acknowledge that black people can find the song racist and you can validate their feelings about it, but you don't really care what they say or what they feel about it because you are going to keep singing it and playing it.  This is just classic coddling and patronizing and belittling.  

This is not arguing purely subjective things like who has the best football program or something similar.  This is a group of human beings saying they are offended by a song that they think is racist and you saying that you understand them and then inviting them over for dinner to play the song.  When people throw around words like racist and racism, there should not be any middle ground.  

Lets say you went to a friend or colleague or even a stranger and told them flatly that some act they were doing was incredibly offensive to you personally.  And then that person said something to the effect of "I understand where you are coming from.  I do not believe what you believe but I have no right to question how you feel because I do not have the same life experiences that you do"  You would rightfully think that was a good answer.  But if the next 10 times you were with that person they continued unabated doing the exact same thing you told them was personally offensive to you, I think you would rightfully think they were total assholes that actually did not care one bit that you were offended.

This is exactly what you guys are doing now.  Paying lip service to someone's feelings to their face and then continuing on with the practice.  You guys have made it abundantly clear that people that think the song is racist are not dumb or do not lack critical thinking skills or are misguided.  You have clearly said that you completely understand how that song can make them feel and then, in the same instance, say that you personally are going to just keep on singing and enjoying the song.  

That's not at all what I'm saying. B_T can speak for himself. I'm saying it's absolutely okay to feel a certain way and for me not to judge that way of thinking. I don't want to force anyone to do anything or listen or be a part of anything. I'm saying that an open dialogue where I can recognize how it makes you feel and hold a different opinion is absolutely acceptable and doesn't make one a racist or make me the person pushing that ideology on a person. I'm saying I accept that and want to work around it, although your personal beliefs and mine don't align. 

Saying the N word in private is the same as saying it to someone's face who finds it offensive and neither is acceptable, but in an academic use the word it's not something anyone can say is offensive or projecting offense from either party. 

Same as the song.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

We're not supposed to use the word _oke.

That said, we're no saints on desegregation, but once we did it, we went further and faster than any other big school in the former confederacy.

I'm interested in how you quantify that claim. What does further and faster mean? 

[BrazilHorn 6577]

I vote for a Pom catwalk show after each game to replace the band playing “The Eyes” 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Just now, BrazilHorn said:

I vote for a Pom catwalk show after each game to replace the band playing “The Eyes” 

 

only if you ditch the chaps and go back to the mini skirt

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

"Why aren't these players doing better politics!?! Why aren't they more mature and effective!?" I, an older man, scream at my computer on a social message board under my Robert Anton Wilson pseudonym at younger people who don't know I exist.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[nineliveslost 2710]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

only if you ditch the chaps and go back to the mini skirt

What happens when the women on campus want the chaps and skirts gone???

OH HELLS NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

40 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

twisted what I was saying this way.

when a sanctimonious white knight is out of ordinance and running low on gas, strawman rhetoric will gush forth like the outer shell of a collapsing red giant.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

10 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's not at all what I'm saying. B_T can speak for himself. I'm saying it's absolutely okay to feel a certain way and for me not to judge that way of thinking. I don't want to force anyone to do anything or listen or be a part of anything. I'm saying that an open dialogue where I can recognize how it makes you feel and hold a different opinion is absolutely acceptable and doesn't make one a racist or make me the person pushing that ideology on a person. I'm saying I accept that and want to work around it, although your personal beliefs and mine don't align. 

Saying the N word in private is the same as saying it to someone's face who finds it offensive and neither is acceptable, but in an academic use the word it's not something anyone can say is offensive or projecting offense from either party. 

Same as the song.

you're also the moderator and stuck between a rock and hard place with 2 sides in a hot war trying to prevent it from going to chem or nukes.  which is a way of saying you have an unthankable task here.

[52-80 19104]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

when a sanctimonious white knight is out of ordinance and running low on gas, strawman rhetoric will gush forth like the outer shell of a collapsing red giant.

i liken it more to fetid excrement gushing from a prolapsed anus

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

8 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I'm interested in how you quantify that claim. What does further and faster mean? 

The liberal arts explosion (programs, tenured departments, schollies, etc.) in the 80s which was directly targeted at minorities (not just African Americans) was larger and happened earlier than at other flagship schools in the former csa with maybe the exception of Florida and North Carolina.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

i liken it more to fetid excrement gushing from a prolapsed anus

are you talking about incipient diarrhea of the mouth?

[Caddox 952]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

An addendum to "we will only sing The Eyes around people who appreciate it" thing... I will absolutely sing it AT Aggies and Sooners to offend and disgust and outrage them, because they are scum and they deserve it.

Handle checks out. 

[landman 559]

Members of the group that met with the team early on to discuss the changes (stadium name, building names, etc.) met with the team again this afternoon, and Hartzell is to meet with them tomorrow.  

Maybe that's already been posted, but didn't see it in the last couple of pages.

[BurntOrange&White 39700]

They gonna be standing from here on out I think. 
 

The finances are going to be given to them and just like the nba they will do what is asked because green > black or white. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by BurntOrange&White

[David Dennison 18669]

2 hours ago, texashorne said:

I just found out the civil engineer that built the road near my house was a pedophile. Now I have to take a different route to work everyday. 

You don't have to, but you can. 

[babysdaddy 2718]

https://texassports.com/news/2020/10/14/forty-acres-insider-oct-14.aspx

 

Greetings Longhorn Nation,

I do want to start today's Forty Acres Insider by apologizing to y'all for my delay in getting back to your many tweets, phone calls and emails in a timely fashion, as my wife has been battling severe vertigo and migraines for the past six weeks, and on Tuesday, we finally got in to see a neurologist followed by an MRI and scans. She's doing okay and we're awaiting those results, but I've obviously had a significant amount of my attention on her and this situation. I'll keep you posted on my bride … fingers crossed!

Many of your questions have been about our student-athletes and the confusion about why they have not remained on the field for "The Eyes of Texas" after the games. I, like so many of you, view the song with pride and sing loudly and proudly in honor of the efforts of those who represent and support this phenomenal institution. As much as our student-athletes love this University, they have questions about the history of "The Eyes" and concerns about it. As you are aware, this past summer, during the height of civil unrest in our country, some of them brought to our attention their concerns over a number of issues on campus, including the origin of the song. President Hartzell was absolutely clear that "The Eyes" is and will remain our school song, but in an effort to further understand its origins, full history, and how it's evolved over time, he established a committee to study, contextualize, and reclaim the song's origin. We believe it is important to understand the history as we continue to perform it.

With that said, I do want to clarify that I have had many conversations with our head coaches outlining my expectations that our teams show appreciation for our University, fans, and supporters by standing together as a unified group for "The Eyes," while we work through this issue. However, like all families who see the world through different lenses, we have plenty of work to do on this subject and will continue to do so, but rest assured, our student-athletes love and respect this University very much and are competing their hearts out for it.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

30 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You don't have to, but you can. 

non se·qui·tur

/ˌnän ˈsekwədər/

noun

noun: non sequitur; plural noun: non sequiturs; noun: nonsequitur; plural noun: nonsequiturs

1. a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

[sheeeit 129]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

I have no idea what "moved past its origins" means. I don't think the song itself was racist in the past so what was there for it to even move past in the first place?

You want me to have the same personal emotional causes that Song Karen does and I just don't. I have sung and will sing the song among Longhorns who appreciate it. I won't perform it among those who don't. The song isn't dead to me personally at all, but as an Alma Mater it isn't doing the job.

I believe the job of the Alma Mater is unity. The Eyes fails that test right now.

Your use of the word "appease" tells the story here. Unlike you, I respect the black Longhorns who don't approve of our Alma Mater. I also respect the black Longhorns who approve of our Alma Mater. I'm not going to pick a black person that agrees with me and say, "SEE!! THIS MEANS IT IS OK/NOT OK!!!!" in an act of desperate tokenism.

When a black Longhorn has a problem with The Eyes due to its history I don't see them as a force to "appease".

I have black friends who sing The Eyes and have for decades. I have zero black friends who have a problem with it (I'm old). Like me, they grew up with it without knowing its history and their hearts are set (like mine). I'm not going to tell them they should be offended or start pretending I am offended on their behalf.

It makes no "sense for me". Learn to read.

I don't feel what they feel, but I can understand why they feel it. This isn't complicated.

You just made this part up. I don't care who you criticize as long as you do it in a non-toxic, unoffensive way. I don't think people here should be blasting Longhorn athletes in nasty, personal ways where the whole world can see.

Intelligently criticizing arguments? Go for it. Have a great time.

What you're trying to do with the bolded strawman is make this like any other tired political argument about right to speech or whatever. Boring. Go to the CR with that.

Position #3 is this: They do not personally believe the song itself is racist but understand why black people would find it offensive because of its history

If everyone around is fine with The Eyes, we will sing it. If someone is not, we won't. This is just normal human decency so I can see why it confuses you guys.

You're making things up in your mind to get mad at. It's pathetic. You're a grown man. You should feel embarrassed.

Your inconsistency and hypocrisy are on full display. 

"You want me to have the same personal emotional causes that Song Karen does and I just don't. I have sung and will sing the song among Longhorns who appreciate it. I won't perform it among those who don't."

"If everyone around is fine with The Eyes, we will sing it. If someone is not, we won't. This is just normal human decency so I can see why it confuses you guys."

So even though a large contingent (99% of the athletic department apparently) feels the song is racist and offensive, you will just sing it in the dark.  As long as no one hears you sing it then it isn't offensive or racist.  Very principled stance.

 

"I don't think The Eyes is a racist song in itself (lyrically). It was played at my wedding. It will be played at my funeral. I will sing it again and again and again until that time. I will most likely be singing it at a birthday celebration this weekend."

Interesting that you already know that no one at the upcoming birthday party is offended by the song.  Maybe there was a question in the invitation?  And your funeral.  Its interesting (and maybe telling) that you have zero friends, acquaintances or colleagues that might want to pay respects to you that find the song offensive.  You realize you dont put the guest list together for your funeral right.  But, fuck it, you will dead so lets just play the song that I have admitted is offensive to many black people because I will be dead and who gives a fuck if they find out I really did not care at all what their feelings were about the song.

 

"I am not going to games this year, but if I could go out there knowing the athletes in front of me had a free choice to be there, I'd sing it myself like I have on hundreds of other occasions."

This is a perfect example of my point.  You have said that 99% of the football players have a problem with the eyes.  Yet, you fully admit that you would sing the song as long as the athletes had a choice to be there.  Just classic example of what I have been saying.  You are admitting openly that you would sing the song at the games even though you think it will offend 99% of the team as long as they get to go to the locker room first.  So the school comes out and says no one has to remain for the song.  Some leave and some stay.  You sing knowing that each player that left the field is going to be offended.  

"I've got great news for you. You can sing it whenever you want and I'm 99.99999% certain you will never hear anyone call you racist for doing so!"

So the athletes that think the song is racist and offensive will not be offended or think someone is racist if they sing the song that the athletes say is offensive and racist.  

"The pianist at my wedding played The Eyes and we all sang along. I've heard it at funerals. I've sung it at games and reunions and gatherings dozens and dozens and dozens of times. I'll sing it dozens more if Satan doesn't take my soul."

Exactly.  As I mentioned over and over, you have no issue singing a song that you fully admit lots of people find offensive and racist.  You supposedly validate their feelings that the song is racist and offensive but do not really believe them because you will keep singing the song.  Again, very principled.

 

"You can be OK with it, and I can be OK with it, but if a black person isn't OK with it I have no standing to contradict them or "WELL ACTUALLY!" the situation."

So according to BT logic, people are free to "criticize as long as you do it in a non-toxic, unoffensive way" or free to "Intelligently criticizing arguments" as long as they never "contradict" them or "well actually" the situation.  That is going to be quite a trick to argue with someone over a subjective point and not be able to contradict them or "well actually" point out additional facts that they may not be aware of.  

[BurntOrange&White 39700]

9 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

https://texassports.com/news/2020/10/14/forty-acres-insider-oct-14.aspx

 

Greetings Longhorn Nation,

I do want to start today's Forty Acres Insider by apologizing to y'all for my delay in getting back to your many tweets, phone calls and emails in a timely fashion, as my wife has been battling severe vertigo and migraines for the past six weeks, and on Tuesday, we finally got in to see a neurologist followed by an MRI and scans. She's doing okay and we're awaiting those results, but I've obviously had a significant amount of my attention on her and this situation. I'll keep you posted on my bride … fingers crossed!

Many of your questions have been about our student-athletes and the confusion about why they have not remained on the field for "The Eyes of Texas" after the games. I, like so many of you, view the song with pride and sing loudly and proudly in honor of the efforts of those who represent and support this phenomenal institution. As much as our student-athletes love this University, they have questions about the history of "The Eyes" and concerns about it. As you are aware, this past summer, during the height of civil unrest in our country, some of them brought to our attention their concerns over a number of issues on campus, including the origin of the song. President Hartzell was absolutely clear that "The Eyes" is and will remain our school song, but in an effort to further understand its origins, full history, and how it's evolved over time, he established a committee to study, contextualize, and reclaim the song's origin. We believe it is important to understand the history as we continue to perform it.

With that said, I do want to clarify that I have had many conversations with our head coaches outlining my expectations that our teams show appreciation for our University, fans, and supporters by standing together as a unified group for "The Eyes," while we work through this issue. However, like all families who see the world through different lenses, we have plenty of work to do on this subject and will continue to do so, but rest assured, our student-athletes love and respect this University very much and are competing their hearts out for it.

@David Dennison thought it was going away? Sounds like they’re being forced to stand now. Get fucked dipshit 

Edited October 14, 2020 by BurntOrange&White

[n64ra 1078]

9 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

With that said, I do want to clarify that I have had many conversations with our head coaches outlining my expectations that our teams show appreciation for our University, fans, and supporters by standing together as a unified group for "The Eyes," while we work through this issue.

Just none of those conversations before the game last Saturday?

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

9 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Your inconsistency and hypocrisy are on full display. 

"You want me to have the same personal emotional causes that Song Karen does and I just don't. I have sung and will sing the song among Longhorns who appreciate it. I won't perform it among those who don't."

"If everyone around is fine with The Eyes, we will sing it. If someone is not, we won't. This is just normal human decency so I can see why it confuses you guys."

So even though a large contingent (99% of the athletic department apparently) feels the song is racist and offensive, you will just sing it in the dark.  As long as no one hears you sing it then it isn't offensive or racist.  Very principled stance.

 

"I don't think The Eyes is a racist song in itself (lyrically). It was played at my wedding. It will be played at my funeral. I will sing it again and again and again until that time. I will most likely be singing it at a birthday celebration this weekend."

Interesting that you already know that no one at the upcoming birthday party is offended by the song.  Maybe there was a question in the invitation?  And your funeral.  Its interesting (and maybe telling) that you have zero friends, acquaintances or colleagues that might want to pay respects to you that find the song offensive.  You realize you dont put the guest list together for your funeral right.  But, fuck it, you will dead so lets just play the song that I have admitted is offensive to many black people because I will be dead and who gives a fuck if they find out I really did not care at all what their feelings were about the song.

 

"I am not going to games this year, but if I could go out there knowing the athletes in front of me had a free choice to be there, I'd sing it myself like I have on hundreds of other occasions."

This is a perfect example of my point.  You have said that 99% of the football players have a problem with the eyes.  Yet, you fully admit that you would sing the song as long as the athletes had a choice to be there.  Just classic example of what I have been saying.  You are admitting openly that you would sing the song at the games even though you think it will offend 99% of the team as long as they get to go to the locker room first.  So the school comes out and says no one has to remain for the song.  Some leave and some stay.  You sing knowing that each player that left the field is going to be offended.  

"I've got great news for you. You can sing it whenever you want and I'm 99.99999% certain you will never hear anyone call you racist for doing so!"

So the athletes that think the song is racist and offensive will not be offended or think someone is racist if they sing the song that the athletes say is offensive and racist.  

"The pianist at my wedding played The Eyes and we all sang along. I've heard it at funerals. I've sung it at games and reunions and gatherings dozens and dozens and dozens of times. I'll sing it dozens more if Satan doesn't take my soul."

Exactly.  As I mentioned over and over, you have no issue singing a song that you fully admit lots of people find offensive and racist.  You supposedly validate their feelings that the song is racist and offensive but do not really believe them because you will keep singing the song.  Again, very principled.

 

"You can be OK with it, and I can be OK with it, but if a black person isn't OK with it I have no standing to contradict them or "WELL ACTUALLY!" the situation."

So according to BT logic, people are free to "criticize as long as you do it in a non-toxic, unoffensive way" or free to "Intelligently criticizing arguments" as long as they never "contradict" them or "well actually" the situation.  That is going to be quite a trick to argue with someone over a subjective point and not be able to contradict them or "well actually" point out additional facts that they may not be aware of.  

You can take him down, cut him to pieces, and he will declare it just a flesh wound.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

@David Dennison thought it was going away? Sounds like they’re being forced to stand now. Get fucked dipshit 

oh no, it's already decided.

[Tex Pete 20186]

3 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Where is the player's outrage over the almost complete absence of African Americans in the IT Industry?  Pick something that really needs a light shone on it.  The more I think about it, I wonder how this whole thing started back in May.  Or, more likely, who started it, where did it come from?  

Someone decided using The Eyes would offer tremendous leverage to enact all the change they wanted. Problem was, The Eyes “controversy” is completely manufactured, and no one pushed back on the other things they wanted.

Now, they got everything they wanted, including not having to stay for The Eyes, but they fucking suck. People are not feeling gracious toward them. They got a ton of support, now it just feels like they are poking their supporters in the eye. It doesn’t help that the band is hiding because a drum major refuses to do her only duty (play what she’s told to play).

[Tex Pete 20186]

7 minutes ago, n64ra said:

Just none of those conversations before the game last Saturday?

Yeah, it’s a crock of shit. This has been woefully mismanaged. 

[sheeeit 129]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

That's not at all what I'm saying. B_T can speak for himself. I'm saying it's absolutely okay to feel a certain way and for me not to judge that way of thinking. I don't want to force anyone to do anything or listen or be a part of anything. I'm saying that an open dialogue where I can recognize how it makes you feel and hold a different opinion is absolutely acceptable and doesn't make one a racist or make me the person pushing that ideology on a person. I'm saying I accept that and want to work around it, although your personal beliefs and mine don't align. 

Saying the N word in private is the same as saying it to someone's face who finds it offensive and neither is acceptable, but in an academic use the word it's not something anyone can say is offensive or projecting offense from either party. 

Same as the song.

I agree pretty much with everything you posted here and should apologize for lumping you in with the BTs and similar.  The issue we are facing though, is what happens when your personal beliefs and another person's personal beliefs, are the subject of change from existing norms.  When those beliefs have an actual impact on your life.  I think most would agree that the song is not a "life or death" issue but, again, where do you draw the line.  The song may not mean much to you personally, but, sooner or later, something that does mean a lot to you is going to face the same situation.  If the answer to that is to never offend anyone, then literally every thing we do is subject to being cancelled.  Where do you draw the line?   Some segment of society is always going to perceive some sort of offensiveness in everything.  

This is why these types of discussions are valuable and important and not easy to resolve.  If the muslim students say they are deeply offended by hotdog sales at games, should we stop selling hotdogs?  If the strong baptists are offended by people drinking beer at the stadium, should we stop it?  I just do not think telling that muslim or baptist person that I really truly understand how you are offended by this but I am just not going to stop doing it helps in any way.  

 

[dcar00 14036]

6 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Someone decided using The Eyes would offer tremendous leverage to enact all the change they wanted. Problem was, The Eyes “controversy” is completely manufactured, and no one pushed back on the other things they wanted.

Now, they got everything they wanted, including not having to stay for The Eyes, but they fucking suck. People are not feeling gracious toward them. They got a ton of support, now it just feels like they are poking their supporters in the eye. It doesn’t help that the band is hiding because a drum major refuses to do her only duty (play what she’s told to play).

I thought the band thing was about Covid.  did the drum major really refuse to play it?

I was thinking a compromise might be possible where the fans turn away from the field and sing the Eyes so they aren't SINGING AT THEM.

[Brothahorn 10085]

Quote

But no one is more disappointed than our team and our coaches.

I hate when people say shit like this after you were given multiple warnings, chances to fix the issue before it got that far. Now you're just throwing CS buzz words and phrases out there.

[dcar00 14036]

5 hours ago, GTNY said:

@bad_teammateYou seem to be taking this really personally and have very strong beliefs the eyes shouldn't be used. Regardless of my personal opinion, you seem to be stuck on "it was used at a minstrel show" for your basis. Where do you draw the line in other aspects of your life? Will you never buy a volkswagon because it was a nazi company or has it transformed beyond that? What about all the other numerous examples or companies connected to ugly pasts?  

I think its obvious he already owns a jetta cabriolet

[bad_teammate 13139]

2 hours ago, GTNY said:

You think it's racist ...

I've said at least 15 times that I don't think the song itself is racist.

I don't think the song itself is racist.

I simply recognize that its origins are offensive to many black Longhorns and I don't like the idea of our Alma Mater being something that can rationally cause offense to black Longhorns.

 

44 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

So even though a large contingent (99% of the athletic department apparently) feels the song is racist and offensive, you will just sing it in the dark.  As long as no one hears you sing it then it isn't offensive or racist.  Very principled stance.

I don't think the song is offensive or racist, but out of respect for those who do I wouldn't sing it at them. This isn't a complicated idea, but you guys are really dedicated to arguing so this thread never dies.

I don't think Jesus exists, out of respect for Christians I don't say that around them.
I don't think everyone's kids are talented or special, out of respect for them I don't say that.
I don't think there's anything wrong with rap music, out of respect for my wife who hates it and its content I don't listen to it.
I don't think bacon is bad, out of respect for Jewish friends I don't put it on their plates.
and on and on and on and on

It's just being a respectful human being. We make choices so as not to cause offense in situations where the stakes are low.

23 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I think its obvious he already owns a jetta cabriolet

You will not disrespect my slut basket.