Adios Aunt Jemima

[formermav43 4607]

7 minutes ago, G650 said:

They exist somewhere in the middle of Chief Wahoo and the Redskin in terms of Native American offensiveness.

 

Non indigenous tend to equate Redskins with the n word, and it's nothing like that. By and large over the years Native Americans take much greater exception to whitey co opting their imagery and culture such as Chiefs and Braves than the Redskins name.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

Cleveland Indians announce they are also reviewing their team name as well. Braves specifically said they’re not but that was before Cleveland made their announcement.

[mdmost 43855]

I can't think of too many instances where Native Americans had an issue with the Braves or the Chiefs. I'm sure there's some of that there but not like the Washington name. And the Cleveland Indians had more to do with the logo than the name. All that said, all 3 and FSU need to get rid of the Chop. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

34 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I can't think of too many instances where Native Americans had an issue with the Braves or the Chiefs. I'm sure there's some of that there but not like the Washington name. And the Cleveland Indians had more to do with the logo than the name. All that said, all 3 and FSU need to get rid of the Chop. 

NCAA removed all Indians names from schools except when a local tribe supported it, and it wasn’t a generic name like Indian or brave.  The chiefs haven’t seen to face the same criticism as Cleveland or Atlanta but once again it because Washington was so bad. Now that redskins will be removed, the 3 pro teams above are up next.

[TornACL 7792]

7 hours ago, tchookem said:

9 hours ago, TornACL said:

Yeah but it's all still just window dressing. None of this shit fucking matters. The name of the Washington football team isn't going to change a single thing about institutionalized racism. 

It's an act of good faith, and good faith is something we're in desperate need of right now.

We're in desperate need of action. Good faith is what gets offered up in lieu of real action each and every time. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34084]

yeah, i specifically remember the Seminole tribe speaking up for the name and mascot. They just asked for a few "traditions" to be changed. That's my memory. And I'm high and getting almost drunk. So some details might be fuzzy

[tchookem 3966]

We're in desperate need of action. Good faith is what gets offered up in lieu of real action each and every time. 

No doubt. But good faith, at least to me, is the promise that action is coming. Here's hoping I'm not wrong (again).

[Underdog 29108]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Cleveland Indians announce they are also reviewing their team name as well. Braves specifically said they’re not but that was before Cleveland made their announcement.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, i specifically remember the Seminole tribe speaking up for the name and mascot. They just asked for a few "traditions" to be changed. That's my memory. And I'm high and getting almost drunk. So some details might be fuzzy

And a $100,000 honorarium  every year....   Allegedly...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

It would only take one tweet from Patrick Mahomes to change the chiefs name. Doubtful he would do that as most nfl players are not leading the charge for social change. Goes against the nature of the average football player. 

[Enchubben 5598]

I for one can’t wait to get rid to Black Friday, but I will miss blackjack, blackberries and blackouts.  

[Jiggy-Z 3507]

Anybody heard anything about these guys?  Looks like spic is doing most of the work.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

13 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Anybody heard anything about these guys?  Looks like spic is doing most of the work.

 

Span covers a greater distance. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[Jiggy-Z 3507]

Also, did not know about this other angle

[Longhorn_Fan68 34084]

5 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Also, did not know about this other angle

in case, like me, you were interested in more than the cover:
https://retrorambling.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-1956-spick-and-span-calendar/

Ms April would absolutely get it - back then

Edited July 8, 2020 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Matuka 1320]

wtf Miss November??

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

On July 8, 2020 at 8:58 PM, Matuka said:

wtf Miss November??

You're giving December a pass? At least we can see November's  knickers. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

Capital University in Columbus is ditching the Crusaders nickname and mascot. It's a decision 15 months in the making so it's not a result of the George Floyd murder but hey, good for them. 

https://stories.capital.edu/2020/07/13/capital-university-to-retire-crusader-nickname-and-mascot/

[Macanudo 13259]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Capital University in Columbus is ditching the Crusaders nickname and mascot. It's a decision 15 months in the making so it's not a result of the George Floyd murder but hey, good for them. 

https://stories.capital.edu/2020/07/13/capital-university-to-retire-crusader-nickname-and-mascot/

But why did they do it?   The article is full of platitudes.  But was the name offensive to.... Non-Christians?  Muslims?  Descendants of people slaughtered during the Crusades?

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20845]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

But why did they do it?   The article is full of platitudes.  But was the name offensive to.... Non-Christians?  Muslims?  Descendants of people slaughtered during the Crusades?

 

 

Fans of a certain 1970s and 80s jazz group.
 

 

[RPM 26572]

Fer the love of Christ...

The Texas Rangers’ team name must go

Quote

 

... the Rangers were a cruel, racist force when it came to the nonwhites who inhabited the beautiful and untamed Texas territory. The first job of the Rangers, formed in 1835 after Texas declared independence from Mexico, was to clear the land of Indian for white settlers.

That was just the start. The Rangers oppressed black people, helping capture runaway slaves trying to escape to Mexico; in the aftermath of the Civil War, they killed free blacks with impunity. “The negroes here need killing,” a Ranger wrote in a local newspaper in 1877

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by RPM

[Longhorn_Fan68 34084]

So we're conveniently not talking about the Redskins? I was away for the weekend and thought I'd have to wade thorough 10 pages about it

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

8 hours ago, Macanudo said:

But why did they do it?   The article is full of platitudes.  But was the name offensive to.... Non-Christians?  Muslims?  Descendants of people slaughtered during the Crusades?

It should be offensive to everyone, don't you think?

[formermav43 4607]

Not really. No more so than Vikings, Raiders, Warriors, Spartans, Trojans, Patriots, etc.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

Indians, Braves and Chiefs should get out in front of this and change their names. They can rip off the band aid now to get it over with in the upcoming weeks or continue to deal with pressure.  Holding onto an inconsequential thing like a name is a bad move. Besides what a great opportunity for fans to be asked to be the next and exciting gear.

I know the Braves have rejected the idea of a name change. The Chiefs have surprisingly been left out of most conversations. I imagine the current generation of the Hunt family would consider it a dishonor to the founder to rename them.  Indians have sounded open to the idea.

As far as names like the Warriors or Raiders, I don't know if that is or was implied to be related to Native Americans. The Raiders seem to identify more with pirates but don't know the original history.  nevermind, these old logos answer the Golden State Warriors question

As far as anti-PC crowd asking about Patriots, Vikings, Spartans or  Trojans; give me a break. That's the equivalent of the semi-racist guy at work asking why there can't be a White Employee group at the office since every other race is allowed one.  

[formermav43 4607]

23 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Indians, Braves and Chiefs should get out in front of this and change their names. They can rip off the band aid now to get it over with in the upcoming weeks or continue to deal with pressure.  Holding onto an inconsequential thing like a name is a bad move. Besides what a great opportunity for fans to be asked to be the next and exciting gear.

I know the Braves have rejected the idea of a name change. The Chiefs have surprisingly been left out of most conversations. I imagine the current generation of the Hunt family would consider it a dishonor to the founder to rename them.  Indians have sounded open to the idea.

As far as names like the Warriors or Raiders, I don't know if that is or was implied to be related to Native Americans. The Raiders seem to identify more with pirates but don't know the original history.  nevermind, these old logos answer the Golden State Warriors question

As far as anti-PC crowd asking about Patriots, Vikings, Spartans or  Trojans; give me a break. That's the equivalent of the semi-racist guy at work asking why there can't be a White Employee group at the office since every other race is allowed one.  

It was in response to Crusaders, if you’ll note the post above it. Nothing to do with Native American names.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

37 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

It was in response to Crusaders, if you’ll note the post above it. Nothing to do with Native American names.

No, he read you right. If you can't see the difference between Crusaders and Patriots (of all the stupid comparisons) then I can't help you. 

[formermav43 4607]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, he read you right. If you can't see the difference between Crusaders and Patriots (of all the stupid comparisons) then I can't help you. 

Well no, he didn’t, since he immediately started talking about the relation to Native American mascots.

I think Mac’s question was not unreasonable. Crusaders is a silly mascot, particularly for a Christian school. It’s even more odd considering it’s a Lutheran school. They should probably change it for those reasons alone-why associate themselves with the Crusades?

But their release talks about diversity, inclusion, all the typical buzzwords-and it’s natural to wonder why that’s relevant.

Presumably, Crusaders is problematic because of it’s association with a group who committed violent atrocities. That’s characteristic of all the nicknames I listed too.

Im not making some sort of slippery slip argument, or railing against PC culture, or anything like that. Just talking about that specific point.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

There is always a contemporary reasonableness test.  And perhaps a future generation will be upset with Vikings or Spartans and they want to change those names. right now, no one seems to care about a city-state that disappeared over 2000 years ago or a group that raided the pre-English coast.

If it really bothers you, then act on it. Otherwise who cares.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13712]

rumors that the Washington Post is going to drop some damaging stories about the Washington NFL team, whatever they've called. Nothing to do with the name. Perhaps this is reason why Snyder looks to have given up the Redskins name without a fight: NFL knew what was coming and gave him no choice due to other problems.

[JBJ 3780]

Cleveland NFL team?

Edited July 16, 2020 by JBJ

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

I am a Strake Jesuit Crusader -- fuck all o' y'all who want to change it. At some point the lesser atrocities of the past get a pass simply for being in the past.

My own DNA reflects rape and white slavery in the UK -- I am about 65 percent Irish / English and 10 percent Scandinavian. Since none of my male ancestors went over to Denmark and Norway and had their way with local bikini teams, I have to assume that some of my female Celtic / Anglo Saxon ancestors were raped and enslaved by Vikings in northern England and Ireland. (Shit, for my Celtic ancestors, this was old hat -- they already been raped and enslaved by Romans -- I have one percent Italian DNA somehow -- and then Anglo Saxons after them.)

Since that is all lost in the mists of the distant past, and we have no written record of any of it, fuck it, I don't give a shit, and neither should anyone else. I'm not about to head up to Minnesota and picket the Vikings. (Though it might be funny.)

And the same goes for Crusaders. All of that was more than 500 years ago. Fuck it, stop giving a shit.

I do understand that more recent history has a different set of rules. And I am not lobbying for some future time when Germany can embrace its Nazi past with pride, so miss me with that shit. At some point or another, pretty much every European country has had a hand in oppressing at least some of the rest of them and the same goes for Asian and African peoples if you look back far enough. And in the Americas too...in the space of about 20 years the Comanche went from being bug eaters the Ute and Shoshone hunted for shits and giggles to the terrors of the plains and lords of the buffalo hunt. 

History is ugly and pretending its not is stupid. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

rumors that the Washington Post is going to drop some damaging stories about the Washington NFL team, whatever they've called. Nothing to do with the name. Perhaps this is reason why Snyder looks to have given up the Redskins name without a fight: NFL knew what was coming and gave him no choice due to other problems.

And here it is.

[G650 14427]

It's been in the wind for awhile.

[Huckleberry 34407]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am a Strake Jesuit Crusader -- fuck all o' y'all who want to change it. At some point the lesser atrocities of the past get a pass simply for being in the past.

My own DNA reflects rape and white slavery in the UK -- I am about 65 percent Irish / English and 10 percent Scandinavian. Since none of my male ancestors went over to Denmark and Norway and had their way with local bikini teams, I have to assume that some of my female Celtic / Anglo Saxon ancestors were raped and enslaved by Vikings in northern England and Ireland. (Shit, for my Celtic ancestors, this was old hat -- they already been raped and enslaved by Romans -- I have one percent Italian DNA somehow -- and then Anglo Saxons after them.)

Since that is all lost in the mists of the distant past, and we have no written record of any of it, fuck it, I don't give a shit, and neither should anyone else. I'm not about to head up to Minnesota and picket the Vikings. (Though it might be funny.)

And the same goes for Crusaders. All of that was more than 500 years ago. Fuck it, stop giving a shit.

I do understand that more recent history has a different set of rules. And I am not lobbying for some future time when Germany can embrace its Nazi past with pride, so miss me with that shit. At some point or another, pretty much every European country has had a hand in oppressing at least some of the rest of them and the same goes for Asian and African peoples if you look back far enough. And in the Americas too...in the space of about 20 years the Comanche went from being bug eaters the Ute and Shoshone hunted for shits and giggles to the terrors of the plains and lords of the buffalo hunt. 

History is ugly and pretending its not is stupid. 

There are some good points in here.

But you didn't address the real question. If history has ugliness why exactly should the ugly parts be glorified with nicknames and mascots?

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

There are some good points in here.

But you didn't address the real question. If history has ugliness why exactly should the ugly parts be glorified with nicknames and mascots?

One person's ugliness is another's glory. You know who's everywhere all over Mongolia to this day? Mothafuckin' Genghis Khan, that's who. And why not, if you are Mongolian? He was kind of a badass. 

[Macanudo 13259]

5 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

There are some good points in here.

But you didn't address the real question. If history has ugliness why exactly should the ugly parts be glorified with nicknames and mascots?

Because not every mascot can be a Care Bear or  Unicorn.

[Biff Tannen 46068]

3 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Because not every mascot can be a Care Bear or  Unicorn.

New Braunfels says fuck you. 

[Macanudo 13259]

12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

New Braunfels says fuck you. 

Hey now.  I said "not every" and not "no one."

 

 

[RPM 26572]

7 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

And here it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Washington Baylors