Eyes of Texas

[AnTiM 1695]

8 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Texas Fight?

Do you actually think that no one would object to the use of the word "fight"?

[hobbes2702 13478]

8 hours ago, AnTiM said:

Do you actually think that no one would object to the use of the word "fight"?

[DigglerontheHoof 21551]

All I know, is I'm gonna be singing The Eyes as loud and lustily as I can, come football season. 

[Queen Bitch 1692]

This isn’t going to go away, and eventually it’s going to affect recruiting.

 

[tx 3 putt 78685]

the students are going to win this one, just a fyi 

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

13 hours ago, Queen Bitch said:

This isn’t going to go away, and eventually it’s going to affect recruiting.

 

It won’t affect recruiting- see aggy, Ole Miss, etc for examples. 

[Biff Tannen 46168]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

the students are going to win this one, just a fyi 

Yep.  I don't honestly care either way.  It's a song.  It's bizarre to defend it so hard.  If the students don't like it, don't sing it.  Whatevs.

[bad_teammate 13524]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It won’t affect recruiting- see aggy, Ole Miss, etc for examples. 

If the athletes make a big deal out of it, it will.

If they don't, it won't.

My position from the start of all of this is that whether or not we sing the alma mater at the game is up to the athletes. If they're in, we're in. If they're out, we're out.

It's a solidarity song. That's the point. It's not a "FUCK YOU, BLACK KID, I AM RICH AND YOU'RE NOT!" song.

[Neonmoon 38130]

This will keep being an sore issue until someone has the balls to rip the bandaid off 

[Satchel 6982]

My hope is that black athletes will ultimately direct their attention toward concerns that impact the daily lives of people. Many come from families who are un/underinsured. They might consider not playing in states that are hostile to voting rights of people who look like them. There are ways to advance this discussion that are more substantive that what is currently happening.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5908]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yep.  I don't honestly care either way.  It's a song.  It's bizarre to defend it so hard.  If the students don't like it, don't sing it.  Whatevs.

It's fascinating how big of an issue this is to some. 

[wildcat09 29579]

17 minutes ago, Satchel said:

My hope is that black athletes will ultimately direct their attention toward concerns that impact the daily lives of people. Many come from families who are un/underinsured. They might consider not playing in states that are hostile to voting rights of people who look like them. There are ways to advance this discussion that are more substantive that what is currently happening.

So they should refuse to play for Texas?

Edited May 8, 2021 by wildcat09

[tchookem 3969]

So they should refuse to play for Texas?

They're already refusing to play well for Texas.

[Jive Turkey 13005]

This battle is not about the song.  It's not about The Eyes of Texas, specifically.  This is all about power politics.  The Eyes is just the handy vehicle being used to make the power play.

The folks trying to ban the Eyes are the historically powerless at UT - students and minorities (whether they be minority students and alum and profs).  UT has been controlled by wealthy alums, most of whom are all white.  They have the power to control the agenda at UT.  Now the powerless have found something that they can use to try and take away some of that power, or at least make those in power squirm or make concessions.  And they are going to use that power.

I just find it hard to believe that the racial history of the Eyes of Texas is the tipping point for these students/minorities/SJWs who are trying to ban it.  That is, they love UT and want to unify the school, but keeping the Eyes is the last straw and has to go.  How could somebody who feels that strongly against the Eyes even enroll at UT in the first place considering that the school only admitted white students upon its founding, and it took a US fucking Supreme Court case in 1950 to allow black students into the law school (Sweatt v. Painter)?  And black undergrads weren't allowed in until 1956?  And dorms weren't integrated until 1965?   These students/minoritys/SJWs looked past all of that that when accepting admission to UT, but damnit, I can't look past singing the Eyes of Texas since its origins in 1903 evoke Robert E. Lee?  That's bullshit.

Point is, the lyrics and history of The Eyes are not the issue.  The issue is that the historically disenfranchised at UT found an issue that they can use to get back at those in power, and it feels damn good to them.  They know they can piss the living hell out of the powerful and might be in a position to take something away from them that they truly love.  They are basking in the possibility, which they feel is justified.

That's what this is about, at least in the eyes of this minority alum who wants to keep the Eyes.

 

[SaucyJack 3520]

For the millionth time, the original poem that the lyrics are based on:

 

They watch above you all the day, the bright blue eyes of Texas. At midnight they’re with you all the way, the sleepless eyes of Texas. The eyes of Texas are upon you, all the livelong day. The eyes of Texas are upon you. They’re with you all the way. They watch you through the peaceful night. They watch you in the early dawn, when from the eastern skies the high light, tells that the night is gone. Sing me a song of Texas, and Texas’ myriad eyes. Countless as the bright stars, that fill the midnight skies. Vandyke brown, vermillion, sepia, Prussian blue, Ivory black and crimson lac, and eyes of every hue.

 

I'll keep singin' it.  

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/ut-austin-eyes-of-texas-song-racist/

Edited May 8, 2021 by SaucyJack

[SaucyJack 3520]

5 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

This battle is not about the song.  It's not about The Eyes of Texas, specifically.  This is all about power politics.  The Eyes is just the handy vehicle being used to make the power play.

The folks trying to ban the Eyes are the historically powerless at UT - students and minorities (whether they be minority students and alum and profs).  UT has been controlled by wealthy alums, most of whom are all white.  They have the power to control the agenda at UT.  Now the powerless have found something that they can use to try and take away some of that power, or at least make those in power squirm or make concessions.  And they are going to use that power.

I just find it hard to believe that the racial history of the Eyes of Texas is the tipping point for these students/minorities/SJWs who are trying to ban it.  That is, they love UT and want to unify the school, but keeping the Eyes is the last straw and has to go.  How could somebody who feels that strongly against the Eyes even enroll at UT in the first place considering that the school only admitted white students upon its founding, and it took a US fucking Supreme Court case in 1950 to allow black students into the law school (Sweatt v. Painter)?  And black undergrads weren't allowed in until 1956?  And dorms weren't integrated until 1965?   These students/minoritys/SJWs looked past all of that that when accepting admission to UT, but damnit, I can't look past singing the Eyes of Texas since its origins in 1903 evoke Robert E. Lee?  That's bullshit.

Point is, the lyrics and history of The Eyes are not the issue.  The issue is that the historically disenfranchised at UT found an issue that they can use to get back at those in power, and it feels damn good to them.  They know they can piss the living hell out of the powerful and might be in a position to take something away from them that they truly love.  They are basking in the possibility, which they feel is justified.

That's what this is about, at least in the eyes of this minority alum who wants to keep the Eyes.

 

If your thesis is true, then the proponents to do away with the song are truly misguided on how to effect actual meaningful change in society.

That is a travesty because actual change is needed. 

Signed,  

         A Former Minority UT Student

[Satchel 6982]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

So they should refuse to play for Texas?

When forced to deal with the intransigence of Mississippi over its state flag, the coaches of MSU and Ole Miss prevailed upon the football crazed legislators there to effect change. Everybody understood  players were serious about avoiding Mississippi because of the flag issue. 
I believe similar change is possible if enough of the right players avoid states that ride roughshod over the interests of communities that birth these star athletes. If Texas pols won’t listen to the business leaders in the state, maybe they’ll get tired of bottom dwelling sports teams and do right by the least of these in Texas.

[Queen Bitch 1692]

4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It won’t affect recruiting- see aggy, Ole Miss, etc for examples. 

I know what you’re saying, but point me to the public reckoning that won’t go away at those schools.

[SaucyJack 3520]

18 minutes ago, Satchel said:

When forced to deal with the intransigence of Mississippi over its state flag, the coaches of MSU and Ole Miss prevailed upon the football crazed legislators there to effect change. Everybody understood  players were serious about avoiding Mississippi because of the flag issue. 
I believe similar change is possible if enough of the right players avoid states that ride roughshod over the interests of communities that birth these star athletes. If Texas pols won’t listen to the business leaders in the state, maybe they’ll get tired of bottom dwelling sports teams and do right by the least of these in Texas.

Last I checked, Mississippi *continues to ride roughshod over its communities of color...but, hey, the flag changed.

 

* and Texas

Edited May 8, 2021 by SaucyJack

[Satchel 6982]

3 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

I know what you’re saying, but point me to the public reckoning that won’t go away at those schools.

The aggy brain trusts know what’s possible if students get serious about holding schools accountable:

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/texas-a-m-dogged-by-racist-image.29192/

 

“Four days before the Jan. 28 demonstration, a group of black student leaders met in private and proposed writing black high school football recruits about the perceived racial hostilities at A&M if the athletic department did not take a public stand on a brewing controversy. 

On Jan. 14, the student newspaper, the Battalion, published an editorial cartoon that was perceived by many as racist. Bowen publicly denounced it a few days later and asked the newspaper to apologize. Slocum and Watkins had not spoken out about the cartoon, even though most of their star athletes are black. 

The proposal to write the recruits was discussed about two weeks before national signing day, when sought-after high school athletes decide where to play college football. 

"We thought it would be unconscionable to allow the athletes to come here without knowing what the racial climate would be like," said Bereket Bisrat, a Houston sophomore who is the spokesman for A&M's African-American Student Coalition.”

 

[SaucyJack 3520]

12 minutes ago, Satchel said:

The aggy brain trusts know what’s possible if students get serious about holding schools accountable:

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/texas-a-m-dogged-by-racist-image.29192/

 

“Four days before the Jan. 28 demonstration, a group of black student leaders met in private and proposed writing black high school football recruits about the perceived racial hostilities at A&M if the athletic department did not take a public stand on a brewing controversy. 

On Jan. 14, the student newspaper, the Battalion, published an editorial cartoon that was perceived by many as racist. Bowen publicly denounced it a few days later and asked the newspaper to apologize. Slocum and Watkins had not spoken out about the cartoon, even though most of their star athletes are black. 

The proposal to write the recruits was discussed about two weeks before national signing day, when sought-after high school athletes decide where to play college football. 

"We thought it would be unconscionable to allow the athletes to come here without knowing what the racial climate would be like," said Bereket Bisrat, a Houston sophomore who is the spokesman for A&M's African-American Student Coalition.”

 

That's from 2002.

[Satchel 6982]

2 minutes ago, SaucyJack said:

That's from 2002.

I know.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I know what you’re saying, but point me to the public reckoning that won’t go away at those schools.

As an outsider who couldn’t recognize The Eyes except as that “working on the railroad” song, it seems like this has devolved into just shitty PR by UT at this point.

Whatever the decision ends up being - dump it, keep it, modify it - the decision just flat needs making.

Keeping this in limbo just allows more issues to be attached to this battle and allows for things like a batch of embarrassing alumni emails to be released.

And settling on the dumb decision to let some athletes sing and other to opt out just keeps this festering in the spotlight.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

This battle is not about the song.  It's not about The Eyes of Texas, specifically.  This is all about power politics.  The Eyes is just the handy vehicle being used to make the power play.

The folks trying to ban the Eyes are the historically powerless at UT - students and minorities (whether they be minority students and alum and profs).  UT has been controlled by wealthy alums, most of whom are all white.  They have the power to control the agenda at UT.  Now the powerless have found something that they can use to try and take away some of that power, or at least make those in power squirm or make concessions.  And they are going to use that power.

I just find it hard to believe that the racial history of the Eyes of Texas is the tipping point for these students/minorities/SJWs who are trying to ban it.  That is, they love UT and want to unify the school, but keeping the Eyes is the last straw and has to go.  How could somebody who feels that strongly against the Eyes even enroll at UT in the first place considering that the school only admitted white students upon its founding, and it took a US fucking Supreme Court case in 1950 to allow black students into the law school (Sweatt v. Painter)?  And black undergrads weren't allowed in until 1956?  And dorms weren't integrated until 1965?   These students/minoritys/SJWs looked past all of that that when accepting admission to UT, but damnit, I can't look past singing the Eyes of Texas since its origins in 1903 evoke Robert E. Lee?  That's bullshit.

Point is, the lyrics and history of The Eyes are not the issue.  The issue is that the historically disenfranchised at UT found an issue that they can use to get back at those in power, and it feels damn good to them.  They know they can piss the living hell out of the powerful and might be in a position to take something away from them that they truly love.  They are basking in the possibility, which they feel is justified.

That's what this is about, at least in the eyes of this minority alum who wants to keep the Eyes.

 

You feel the others have views, beliefs, and positions that are not legitimate. Insightful stuff. If only they were acting in good faith, everything would be gravy.  Except those darn others are "basking in the possibility" to "piss the living hell out of the powerful" and make them "squirm" -- when all the good folk of the world want is to just sing a song they "truly love."  The good folks are victims here.  Won't someone think about the good folks?

Or maybe, instead of dumbing down and delegitimizing their position as a simple exercise of misguided power, folks could at least acknowledge the others would just rather have a song that unifies the whole school and isn't one with a tainted origin story.  

And if you really need to think about things in terms of power, maybe instead of being concerned about the supposed "power play" by students and athletes, you should take a look at the "power play" by donors going on.  I bet there are some emails somewhere you can take a look at.

[Satchel 6982]

Athletes understand the environment in which they are often used as pawns. I recall a Baylor grad retelling a conservation he overheard after a  victory, during which the Baylor fan gushed; “our n!ggers were better than their n!ggers today.”

The players know what time it is.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

1 hour ago, SaucyJack said:

If your thesis is true, then the proponents to do away with the song are truly misguided on how to effect actual meaningful change in society.

That is a travesty because actual change is needed. 

Signed,  

         A Former Minority UT Student

You used to be a minority?

[Mole 4340]

Changing demographics.

[SaucyJack 3520]

6 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

You used to be a minority?

LGBTQM+

 

 

[Bateshorn 9991]

12 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It won’t affect recruiting- see aggy, Ole Miss, etc for examples. 

Except cash money fixes a lot of problems.  If you want to take the high road, I’m not sure the Eyes of Texas is how you get there without a  fat envelope.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Bateshorn

[SaucyJack 3520]

[Pancho 46314]

On 5/6/2021 at 9:00 AM, AnTiM said:

If you think there is any song in the world that would unify the whole school you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

The more I think about this the more it feels like my relationship to the Astrodome. At first I was an uncompromising partisan to keeping it somehow, because so many of my memories were tied up in it, and even if those were mainly colossal heartbreaks, they were mine, and every other Houstonian of that era. 

Now, I really don't care. There is no valid argument to keeping the Dome around other than sentimentality, and if people can't go inside, and if it looks like shit in there anyway, why would people want to go in?

But the main thing is, nobody under about 30 gives a single fuck about the Dome, and that number, already at about zero, will continue to drop as time goes by. In national eyes, we look a little weird for hanging on to this white elephant of a stadium, and while I don't give a shit about looking weird, it is also pointless. 

With the Eyes, we've come up with a solution that any student of history would recognize as "Separate But Equal" bands, and that shit just don't fly any more. We can rail against the band kids, the athletes, the university admin all we want, but this is starting to become an albatross. I hope sincerely that maybe things will change in the next few years, and the Eyes will become beloved by all, and I am in favor of giving it time, but at this moment, I am not optimistic. A National Championship would come in handy, of course; and then the Eyes could be featured as a centerpiece of some kind or racial healing narrative the media would buy into. 

[SaucyJack 3520]

It has come to my attention that the Longhorn Band was founded in 1900. No Blacks allowed.

This injustice cannot stand and the band should be disbanded.

 

[hobbes2702 13478]

11 minutes ago, SaucyJack said:

It has come to my attention that the Longhorn Band was founded in 1900. No Blacks allowed.

This injustice cannot stand and the band should be disbanded.

 

Yea that’s the same thing. 

[mdmost 44052]

15 minutes ago, SaucyJack said:

It has come to my attention that the Longhorn Band was founded in 1900. No Blacks allowed.

This injustice cannot stand and the band should be disbanded.

 

Save that slippery slope shit for the Football board. 

[hobbes2702 13478]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Save that slippery slope shit for the Football board. 

It’s not even slippery slope. It’s completely unrelated nonsense 

[tchookem 3969]

It’s not even slippery slope. It’s completely unrelated nonsense 

It also completely misses the point that they acknowledged the problem and have since fixed it. Unlike thre current issue, which apparently isn't going away.

[SaucyJack 3520]

When it comes to race/ethnicity issues, arbitrary lines can be placed anywhere depending on one's perspective. 

It's easy to see how people's feelings can be hurt with these arbitrary lines. 

For me EOT is way too blurry to be the hill to die on.

I'll keep fighting civil rights battles where it matters.

Hook'em!

Edited May 10, 2021 by SaucyJack

[Asithappens 978]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:10 AM, Neonmoon said:

This will keep being an sore issue until someone has the balls to rip the bandaid off 

Which to me means telling those "students and faculty" to get bent. 

Keep the eyes. 

Do not cave in to these woke assholes. 

Just my opinion. 

[SaucyJack 3520]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:18 PM, Queen Bitch said:

This isn’t going to go away, and eventually it’s going to affect recruiting.

 

Apparently, Coach Traylor at South Oak Cliff didn't get the memo.

 

 

 

 

Coach Traylor

 

@coach_traylor

 

 

The eyes of Texas are on #SOCNATION!

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by SaucyJack

[David Dennison 19542]

 

[hobbes2702 13478]

Just dump it. Seriously who gives a shit about a fucking song

[David Dennison 19542]

That's a lot of scratch to polish the image of a song with no baggage.

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

Dotard fans and university administrators must be the biggest marks in the world.  At least uni admins have the excuse that it isn’t their own money they are pissing away.

[Skipper 6411]

That fucking reporter is beyond obsessed.  Does anyone actually read that shit rag?

[William Wallace 106]

spend 1m on a song, b/c a few far left said it is racist.

No one thought about race while singing Eyes of Texas until a twitter warrior.

Everything is race now, sad.  

[William Wallace 106]

I'm available for 100k to talk about Eyes of Texas if the firm wants.

Lmao, what is that shit, People do some internet research for 1m and come to their conclusion?

 

[South Austin 53227]

Look, I’ve sung The Eyes at the top of my lungs. Not because I like the song, but it’s just a vehicle for a mass of friends and strangers to collectively show pride for their team, usually when most of them are hammered.

But I’ve always thought it has incredibly lame lyrics and a silly melody. Whether rooted in racism or not, at its core it’s a stupid song. If it had never before existed and today someone commissioned to come up with our fight song presented the same lyrics and music to the university administration, they’d get laughed off campus and later sued to get the university’s money back.

Strange hill for wealthy donors to die on.

[Ghost of LL 15698]

20 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Just dump it. Seriously who gives a shit about a fucking song

Apparently quite a large number of people.

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Look, I’ve sung The Eyes at the top of my lungs. Not because I like the song, but it’s just a vehicle for a mass of friends and strangers to collectively show pride for their team, usually when most of them are hammered.

But I’ve always thought it has incredibly lame lyrics and a silly melody. Whether rooted in racism or not, at its core it’s a stupid song. If it had never before existed and today someone commissioned to come up with our fight song presented the same lyrics and music to the university administration, they’d get laughed off campus and later sued to get the university’s money back.

Strange hill for wealthy donors to die on.

No, it's not.  

A lot of these wealthy donors are of, shall we say, a certain age.  And as such, they have a lot of life experiences wrapped up in that song.  And so when people attack the song as "racist," they're also tinging those experiences and memories with the allegation of racism. 

It's like telling Woody Harrelson his dad is a murderer.  I mean, he is, but that doesn't matter.  Now, every happy childhood memory Woody has with his dad is tinged with the fact that his dad is a murderer.  Is it a surprise that Woody maintains that his dad was innocent?

I'm not saying that's particularly rational.  But I am saying that it's reality.  And I think you'd do well to have a shred of understanding for those folks' perspectives.

[South Austin 53227]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No, it's not.  

A lot of these wealthy donors are of, shall we say, a certain age.  And as such, they have a lot of life experiences wrapped up in that song.  And so when people attack the song as "racist," they're also tinging those experiences and memories with the allegation of racism. 

It's like telling Woody Harrelson his dad is a murderer.  I mean, he is, but that doesn't matter.  Now, every happy childhood memory Woody has with his dad is tinged with the fact that his dad is a murderer.  Is it a surprise that Woody maintains that his dad was innocent?

I'm not saying that's particularly rational.  But I am saying that it's reality.  And I think you'd do well to have a shred of understanding for those folks' perspectives.

I don't doubt that a lot of folks have important memories attached to those songs, as do I.  And I don't believe the movement to get rid of The Eyes accuses folks who have those fond memories and who passionately sung that song as being racist, but I can understand that there are many who conflate the arguments against The Eyes with an attack on their memories and their values.

My perspective is one of musicianship.  It's just a banal and poorly written song.  We can do better.