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Black Lives Matter


Hugo Stiglitz

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25 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I think by the way they're saying murder as in he was hoping that he'd kill people, instead of self defense.

I should add that I don't think my stance makes me morally deficient as they're saying.

We're putting you in an historical perspective. We're aware that similar unrest to what you're complaining about today coincided with the civil rights movement in the 1960s, and we think that if you were transported to, let's say 1964, you would be using the 1964 Harlem Riot as an excuse to not support the civil rights movement, just as millions of conservatives did. Do you think white people who opposed the civil rights movement were morally deficient? I sure do.

 

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20 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

We're putting you in an historical perspective. We're aware that similar unrest to what you're complaining about today coincided with the civil rights movement in the 1960s, and we think that if you were transported to, let's say 1964, you would be using the 1964 Harlem Riot as an excuse to not support the civil rights movement, just as millions of conservatives did. Do you think white people who opposed the civil rights movement were morally deficient? I sure do.

 

Did I ever say that a certain peoples actions make a whole group did it? Does the Harlem riots x out the Selma protest? I don't think so.

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His lawyers are making this quite the politicized case.

Ironic, because I don't believe Rittenhouse's motives were overtly political and, he is exactly the kind of non-protestor rabble rouser that the alt right Trumpy kind pretend don't exist.

In other words, whatever Rittenhouse' motives, he was neither a protestor nor a counter-protestor.  And he, along with what also appear to be non-protestors, are responsible for violence and death in the vicinity of a protest.

As opposed to the Trumpy narrative that it is BLM protestors responsible for the violence and death.

What a fucking world we live in.  Or nation.

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51 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Does the Harlem riots x out the Selma protest?

What you don't seem to grasp is that to white America....YES, IT DID.  MLK was not just a LITTLE unpopular -- he was a LOT unpopular.  You and those like you have engaged in such complete historical revisionism, it's breathtaking.  You are doing EXACTLY what white America did in the 60s -- dismiss the movement out of hand, using "riots" and "bad actors" as the excuse.  If you'd bothered to read some contemporary accounts, and history looking back at social response, you'd realize why so many of us find the current discussion so maddening:

1) we don't support riots and violence.

2) we sure as shit don't support the lazy and convenient conclusion that "the BLM movement therefore as a whole has no legitimacy/credibility."

Yet the narrative is that there functionally is no legitimate movement -- everyone associated with it is at least tacitly okay with rioting and violence -- and anyone who is not aligned with the BLM cause in general has done exactly what people did in 1964 etc. -- dismissed the movement on that basis (they're violent!  They're commies!).  At the very least, it's an excuse to keep from addressing the underlying problems - "we shouldn't talk about reforming the police until we get all violence completely under control."  Same fucking song, exact same fucking lyrics.  

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What you don't seem to grasp is that to white America....YES, IT DID.  MLK was not just a LITTLE unpopular -- he was a LOT unpopular.  You and those like you have engaged in such complete historical revisionism, it's breathtaking.  You are doing EXACTLY what white America did in the 60s -- dismiss the movement out of hand, using "riots" and "bad actors" as the excuse.  If you'd bothered to read some contemporary accounts, and history looking back at social response, you'd realize why so many of us find the current discussion so maddening:

1) we don't support riots and violence.

2) we sure as shit don't support the lazy and convenient conclusion that "the BLM movement therefore as a whole has no legitimacy/credibility."

Yet the narrative is that there functionally is no legitimate movement -- everyone associated with it is at least tacitly okay with rioting and violence -- and anyone who is not aligned with the BLM cause in general has done exactly what people did in 1964 etc. -- dismissed the movement on that basis (they're violent!  They're commies!).  Same fucking song, exact same fucking lyrics.

That is a really good summation right there. After reading Walking With the Wind I found a whole lot of details in it that I found interesting. If not for the media getting on the ground and following the Civil Rights Movement as closely as they did I am not sure America would’ve changed its view so quickly. The footage of John Lewis’s skull getting fractured was horrific and America had to come to terms in that moment with what was going on in the Deep South. 
 

We’re repeating this all over again, but this time we have a president telling everyone not to believe what you see and hear and praising people who are racists. It’s working on people posting here. People who have no idea about the history of the Civil Rights movement are absolutely repeating the same things white people did in the 50’s and 60’s.

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Just now, UpperWestside said:

It’s working on people posting here. People who have no idea about the history of the Civil Rights movement are absolutely repeating the same things white people did in the 50’s and 60’s.

QFT.

Don't just read and look at videos that fit your preconceptions and desires.  Get some altitude, and realize the breadth of the subject matter and messaging here.  And YES, don't deny or look past the violence and destruction that has taken place -- that's a fact that's not pleasant or convenient for those of us who support civil rights, for example.  And we don't deny it.  but it's just one piece of the big picture.  In terms of percentage of people involved in the movement, it's a small fraction of the picture.

And dig down on facts that you think are important -- if you think the fact that local PDs are not taking sufficient action to protect lives and properties is telling.....dig into who is making those decisions, and how.  If it's local mayors etc., then see how they are doing so, and if need be, hold them accountable.  And if it's the PD making command decisions, look into what the decisions are and why.  And hold THEM accountable.

Instead, we've got a sizable portion of the country just repeating the DOTUS's rhetoric and approach.  LAW AND ORDER!  It's absolutely destructive to any social order or peaceful path forward.

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The only thing I know with 100 percent certainty in this matter is that if the cops shot, or even just spit on, worksforweed or a family member he would be the first person racing to a lawyers office looking for them to sue on his behalf, for a contingent fee of course. 
 

Guys like him are all the same. It doesn’t matter unless it directly happens to them, then it becomes the greatest injustice ever perpetrated. 

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What I have learned.

When a cop beats a person, it is just a bad apple, not representative of the rest, even though the rest are watching or providing false testimony.

When a black dude takes a knee and remains silent as a form of protest, that 'mutherfucker' needs to get off my tv or get fired.

When people march in protest of police violence,  it is not a few bad apples, but the entire crowd and movement that is responsible for the actions of a few.   So really,  they all deserve to get clubbed like a baby seal. 

Reading requires a Herculean effort, so just skim the title to know what is happening.   Knowledge in a vacuum > information in context.  

 Am I ready to be a Trumpkin or do I need to bang my head in the wall about 50 more times?

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What you don't seem to grasp is that to white America....YES, IT DID.  MLK was not just a LITTLE unpopular -- he was a LOT unpopular.  You and those like you have engaged in such complete historical revisionism, it's breathtaking.  You are doing EXACTLY what white America did in the 60s -- dismiss the movement out of hand, using "riots" and "bad actors" as the excuse.  If you'd bothered to read some contemporary accounts, and history looking back at social response, you'd realize why so many of us find the current discussion so maddening:

1) we don't support riots and violence.

2) we sure as shit don't support the lazy and convenient conclusion that "the BLM movement therefore as a whole has no legitimacy/credibility."

Yet the narrative is that there functionally is no legitimate movement -- everyone associated with it is at least tacitly okay with rioting and violence -- and anyone who is not aligned with the BLM cause in general has done exactly what people did in 1964 etc. -- dismissed the movement on that basis (they're violent!  They're commies!).  At the very least, it's an excuse to keep from addressing the underlying problems - "we shouldn't talk about reforming the police until we get all violence completely under control."  Same fucking song, exact same fucking lyrics.  

I'm sorry, but when did this become me representing the whole of white Americans? I told you my stance, I didn't tell you anything else.

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

QFT.

Don't just read and look at videos that fit your preconceptions and desires.  Get some altitude, and realize the breadth of the subject matter and messaging here.  And YES, don't deny or look past the violence and destruction that has taken place -- that's a fact that's not pleasant or convenient for those of us who support civil rights, for example.  And we don't deny it.  but it's just one piece of the big picture.  In terms of percentage of people involved in the movement, it's a small fraction of the picture.

And dig down on facts that you think are important -- if you think the fact that local PDs are not taking sufficient action to protect lives and properties is telling.....dig into who is making those decisions, and how.  If it's local mayors etc., then see how they are doing so, and if need be, hold them accountable.  And if it's the PD making command decisions, look into what the decisions are and why.  And hold THEM accountable.

Instead, we've got a sizable portion of the country just repeating the DOTUS's rhetoric and approach.  LAW AND ORDER!  It's absolutely destructive to any social order or peaceful path forward.

Absolutely it is important to address destruction and violence that has taken place. Again I go back to the book here for this where Lewis said he did not condone rioting and destruction. However, he said he understood it and that people who believe that their words and pleas fall on deaf ears turn to destroying things. What I would add to that is that there is property being destroyed and looting taking place by people that I would describe as either anarchists who are opportunists and jump into the fray. This is obviously not good, but you have to discern who is doing what. That requires some critical thinking and that seems to be in short supply with millions of our fellow citizens. It pains me seeing history repeated when we have such easy access to information that could educate the populace with historical information.
 

I do not like seeing images of white folks out destroying property because it undermines what our black brothers and sisters are trying to achieve. It drives many of the posts you see in DT who needed only the smallest of excuses to vent their pent up anger towards the BLM Movement because of the actions of a very small segment of it. Seeing the posts over there about preparing to defend their homes against some invasion that will take place is absolutely a product of the fear our big, dumb president has instilled in millions of people. The guy posting an image of a neighbor’s militarized Jeep (Believe it is located in the soon to be Antifa war zone of Frisco) should’ve been roundly condemned, but it was instead celebrated. 

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We like to look back at history and imagine ourselves critiquing failures, decisions made in battle or made in peace that had long reaching effect.  Neville Chamberlain is reviled for his strategy of appeasement.  Yet here we are, pretending ignorance as the police get more and more violent, unabashedly harming our citizens and the legitimacy of our government.   Let's all demand the peaceful protest, condemn the man beaten by a cop who now wants to toss a rock at them.  Condemn the people who value life over property.  Let us all cower to our masters,  those unelected, unaccountable, uneducated violent morally bankrupt members of our society, unfit to interact with a civilian populous.   Let's abdicate our responsibility to hold institutions accountable.  Let's appease law enforcement, that strategy worked so well for the British. 

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On 9/2/2020 at 9:26 AM, workswithseed said:

Id be glad to make it hurt more when a cop shoots a person. They should definitely not be immune to the legal restrictions that we citizens have to face. Once there is something on the ballot (which I'm thinking there will be here in Multnomah County pretty soon.) I'll vote for it.

I can totally understand being mad that another shooting of a black man happened. I'd say wait till at least all the details are out, but that didn't happen and protesters went to the street and hopefully legally protested. Which is thier right, but destroying people's places of business isn't how I'd show that the government's trust to its people have been broken. 

social contracts..how do they wok?

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


I mean....other than that being a rather consistent and proven method of radicalizing people through the years, your sarcasm makes perfect sense.

It's just funny because of course the locus of control for these people is external rather than internal and of course, despite his best efforts, he's been radicalized against his will and his desire, because he's been victimized by the radicalizer's, coming to radicaldoze all those in their radical way.

Obviously this mental weakling isn't the average sampling of otherwise decent protesters, but he's a funny outlier to be quoted and pointed at, and people crying and blaming others for why they behave and act in a certain way is never not pathetic.

Edited by Rougarou
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13 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I was with a bunch of people at the peaceful Houston March who were shocked when the pigs started armoring/masking up for no reason right in front of us.

I had to tell a bunch of fellow old white people, "We are about to get gassed."

Just curious, but did the fellow old white people go home and live journal about being radicalized thereafter? 

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9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Obviously this mental weakling isn't the average sampling of otherwise decent protesters, but he's a funny outlier to be quoted and pointed at, and people crying and blaming others for why they behave and act in a certain way is never not pathetic.

 

5 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Just curious, but did the fellow old white people go home and live journal about being radicalized thereafter? 

Your posts here sound a whole lot more like "crying" than the "mental weakling" quoted by WaPo. You're pitching a fit, and you sound like a child.

 

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Your posts here sound a whole lot more like "crying" than the "mental weakling" quoted by WaPo. You're pitching a fit, and you sound like a child.

 

If pointing and laughing (which I thought was the point of even posting this in the first place by the OP, potentially) is pitching a fit and sounding like a child.

Culpable Peter Griffin - YouTube

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7 hours ago, Rougarou said:

If pointing and laughing (which I thought was the point of even posting this in the first place by the OP, potentially) is pitching a fit and sounding like a child.

What you're responding to isn't actually funny; you're forcing it. I wouldn't argue that it's the most profound thing ever stated, but it's not melodramatic either in content or form. It's not absurd or laughable.

You're trying too hard because you're doing the "I'm not mad, I'm actually laughing" thing and you should stop because you look like an idiot.

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9 hours ago, Rougarou said:

It's just funny because of course the locus of control for these people is external rather than internal and of course, despite his best efforts, he's been radicalized against his will and his desire, because he's been victimized by the radicalizer's, coming to radicaldoze all those in their radical way.

Obviously this mental weakling isn't the average sampling of otherwise decent protesters, but he's a funny outlier to be quoted and pointed at, and people crying and blaming others for why they behave and act in a certain way is never not pathetic.

What is a normal response to an non-normal situation?  You display ovine docility while deluded into thinking you possess Commando (whatever Arnold's character's name was in that film) fortitude.  

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1 hour ago, Nivek said:

What is a normal response to an non-normal situation?  You display ovine docility while deluded into thinking you possess Commando (whatever Arnold's character's name was in that film) fortitude.  

Whatever happened to the quality called Steadfastness?

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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What you're responding to isn't actually funny; you're forcing it. I wouldn't argue that it's the most profound thing ever stated, but it's not melodramatic either in content or form. It's not absurd or laughable.

You're trying too hard because you're doing the "I'm not mad, I'm actually laughing" thing and you should stop because you look like an idiot.

I think you are over-diagnosing here. That persons testimony is either a dishonest justification for why they are engaging in illegal and destructive behavior (aka being radicalized) which is a thinner excuse than the mints she will have in the freezer next to the guillotined heads of our neighbors soon, or she’s being honest and was broken and it’s the systems fault for her having been forced to engage in illegal and destructive behavior when all she really want to do is be like you, a peaceful protestor.

Either way, to me in my opinion, is the funny and exaggerated teenage/millennial/genz “I’m a victim and it’s not my fault” trope we see in memes.

That being said, I guess I can cop to not having much empathy here for someone and if I didn’t find the quote so absurd and took them with earnestness, maybe it wouldn’t be funny to me. I guess I’m on the ledge being Brisket this weekend and feel a bit languid and hopeless about our peculiar situation here in 2020. 

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Whatever happened to the quality called Steadfastness?

Excellent “man against the wilderness” lecture. Why isn’t the world made up of nothing but rugged mountain men? I dunno. But it’s not. It’s made up of human beings who react to stimulus.

 

People who had their towns bombed by German planes ended up disliking Germans. Why weren’t they “steadfast?” People who lived under oppressive Soviet rule in the Baltics ended up disliking the Soviet Union. Etc etc. This is exactly how almost all humans react and behave.

 

Including you and your pals who hate rioters so much - why are the ammo shelves at Academy empty? Why are y’all not “steadfast?” The only thing you’re steadfast in is your folly.

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4 hours ago, Rougarou said:

I think you are over-diagnosing here. That persons testimony is either a dishonest justification for why they are engaging in illegal and destructive behavior (aka being radicalized) which is a thinner excuse than the mints she will have in the freezer next to the guillotined heads of our neighbors soon, or she’s being honest and was broken and it’s the systems fault for her having been forced to engage in illegal and destructive behavior when all she really want to do is be like you, a peaceful protestor.

Either way, to me in my opinion, is the funny and exaggerated teenage/millennial/genz “I’m a victim and it’s not my fault” trope we see in memes.

That being said, I guess I can cop to not having much empathy here for someone and if I didn’t find the quote so absurd and took them with earnestness, maybe it wouldn’t be funny to me. I guess I’m on the ledge being Brisket this weekend and feel a bit languid and hopeless about our peculiar situation here in 2020. 

This has been quite the impressive performance. You have seamlessly mixed dimwittedness with an inflated sense of self. Truly a dazzling intellect. 

You act like "fuck the police" is an illogical response to being fired on by police while doing nothing wrong. That's the dimwitted part if you're finding it difficult to follow along. 

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4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Excellent “man against the wilderness” lecture. Why isn’t the world made up of nothing but rugged mountain men? I dunno. But it’s not. It’s made up of human beings who react to stimulus.

I am fond of this ridiculous myth.  One can watch Alone and see how many of them break even when they have the skills to survive or even thrive mostly due to the isolation.  We are hardwired to be social creatures as we developed from other social creatures.  Loneliness is a mental disorder that has measurable impacts on the body.  The idea that we should idolize John Galt as some loner who has the power to do it all by himself is so fucking absurd only a follower of Ayn Rand could be so foolish to accept.  And she was of middling intellect at best and the heroine of other great minds like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and I believe our own Tahoe Horn, which is great company to keep if you like bland uninteresting, pesudo-intellectual commentary.  The last of which I take particular exception with as I generally deal with quasi-intellectual posts and I need to defend my realm.   Did I meander enough here?

 

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7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is consistently the dumbest response to BLM.

Which is why Uncle Ruckus will eventually do one of his drive-by swipes at all of us "Lil' men" that he thinks makes him look tough or clever. These people constantly taking swipes at BLM are doing so even knowing that the focus of the organization is on police brutality and how families are structured. 

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3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I picture Brothahorn looking like this Ron Milner guy.

He has an one-track mind and continues to post this stuff so he can take shots at an organization he doesn't like. I mean he's free to start his own organization but that would require doing some work and that's not his forte on this. Complaining and overwhelming amounts of negativity about everything is what he traffics in. The man needs some therapy to help right what ails him.

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8 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

He has an one-track mind and continues to post this stuff so he can take shots at an organization he doesn't like. I mean he's free to start his own organization but that would require doing some work and that's not his forte on this. Complaining and overwhelming amounts of negativity about everything is what he traffics in. The man needs some therapy to help right what ails him.

  I have been trying to wrap my mind around the delusion that comes with Trump supporters. I say Trump supporters because I do not remember traditional Repubs being like this.

  How you arrive at the mentality where Black People shouldn't be allowed to protest the killing of unarmed Black People by the people sworn to protect and serve us because somewhere a Black Person killed another Black Person is nowhere on my GPS finder. I woke up to a meme on a ffriend's FB page.....

 

327df4709a94c0ce1880787af8966b82.jpg

 

   Then underneath it said Trump 2020. I sat there scratching my head for a moment in thought. We have never had a more divisive President in my life time. He doesn't even try to hide it. At least past Presidents have been more subtle. I could not for the life of me see how one could believe in equality and unity and somehow arrive at the thought that supporting Trump was a show of that.

   Brothahorn is an enigma. If you are Black, and spent time with other Black people, you at least have to know at least one person who was wronged by police. You have to have experienced at least a little systemic racism. Why would you advocate something that the people you love are negatively affected by? I wonder if back in the day there was some Black dude watching MLK on his black and white TV and saying, "If you guys would just get better jobs you wouldn't need to worry about what seat you have on the bus".

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On 9/7/2020 at 3:47 PM, Huckleberry said:

This has been quite the impressive performance. You have seamlessly mixed dimwittedness with an inflated sense of self. Truly a dazzling intellect. 

You act like "fuck the police" is an illogical response to being fired on by police while doing nothing wrong. That's the dimwitted part if you're finding it difficult to follow along. 

It reminds me of the advice and responses our family received when one of our children was bullied in middle school. Our child wasn't 'radicalized' per se, but we have all seen students affected by the system that in some (not all) schools uses words that say one thing but their actions towards the student and the perpetrators say another.

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20 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Or the cops could arrest her killer and justice be served.

 

Quote

 

Chicago’s murder-clearance rate rose sharply in 2019, police say

More murders were cleared than in any other year in a decade, officials say. But more than half of the solved murders occurred prior to 2019.

Chicago has turned around its perennially dismal rate at solving murders, according to statistics released Tuesday.

The city’s murder clearance rate in 2019 was about 53%, according to Chicago Police Department figures. In 2016, the clearance rate was just 29% — an improvement of more than 50% in three years, the department’s figures show.

The police said that in 2019 they “cleared more murders than in any of the past 10 years, with 263 murders cleared.”

The solve rate for a given year includes killings in that year and also from previous years. It’s the number the police department provides to the FBI for its national crime summary.

According to crime data the city puts on its website, only 21 percent of the 486 first-degree murders that were listed in 2019 through Dec. 23 had resulted in an arrest.

Police officials confirmed that 102 murders that happened in 2019 were cleared. They said 159 murders from prior years also were solved.

 

The urban myth that the killers will be brought to justice is used so that you can keep looking the other way.

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Right on time with another post that has zero to do with the BLM Movement. 

Here I can play this game too Uncle Ruckus. Why aren't you out protesting about Linden Cameron being shot by the police? Do you not care about 13 year old white children that have autism who get shot by the police? Why are you not on a plane to Salt Lake City to protest this injustice? 

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