Black Lives Matter

[Brothahorn 10085]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"the average victim"? What does that even mean?

BLM is an organization whose focus is institutional violence. The people doing the work within BLM have moral universes beyond the scope of the organization. Arguing otherwise is absurd and irrational.

You and the people within BLM can walk and chew gum at the same time. Congratulations, I guess.

So you had no problem giving me your quack diagnosis, not once but twice. Now you don't understand what I meant? GTFOH.

The problem with people like you is that you got your years ago and now you want to give advice. But not in a sincere, helpful way. But in a old asshole, I know everything way.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Brothahorn

[bad_teammate 13132]

By "average black victim" do you mean "black person killed by a black person"? If so, I know black activists involved with BLM who absolutely care about those here in the Houston area.

Your argument doesn't bear any scrutiny. It makes no sense.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Man, 2020 is something ELSE.

[Chooky 13302]

There are more Uncle Ruckus's than I ever thought existed. 

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Brisketexan 104631]

4 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Dolly F'n Parton is a GOTDAMN NATIONAL TREASURE.

I love her so, so damned much.

[Post Oak 20187]

19 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

I absolutely love her.  

There are a lot of Dolly fans out there that dont know what to think now. 

 

[UpperWestside 6136]

2 hours ago, Chooky said:

There are more Uncle Ruckus's than I ever thought existed. 

They’re odd ducks to run across online or in real life. I see them occasionally at protests, but they are usually mentally not well. A few have just been contrarians for no real reason. People are always polite to them. You let them get their stream of consciousness out and they move on quickly to the next person to repeat their rant. Fairly harmless people I think.

Edited August 13, 2020 by UpperWestside

[Biff Tannen 45499]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Man, 2020 is something ELSE.

 

obligatory

[Pancho 44487]

I was wondering why Clayton Bigsby has been trending no twitter pretty much all day. 

 

I’m not sure he’s mental, but he’s definitely a product of his environment.  If that’s all he grew up around, then it’s not shocking or surprising that is his line of thinking and who he is.  There are lots of reasons as to why there’s always “the one” Black guy who is like this, but I’d argue it mostly has to do with “fit” and in-group/out-group. 

[Pancho 44487]

Forgot to mention...

Was driving back from the doctor yesterday and saw a BLM sign in a yard in West U!

[StassneyHorn 6540]

Texas Legislative Black Caucus unveils the George Floyd Act to ban chokeholds and limit police use of force
 

Summary: no chokeholds, requires officers to intervene if another officer is being excessive, allows civil lawsuits at state level, end arrests for fine-only offenses (died in last session in re: Sandra Bland). Sounds like a separate bill addressing no knock warrants will be introduced.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/13/texas-george-floyd-act/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[cactusflinthead 27594]

If you need a reason to like Dolly here ya go. 

On the topic of BLM, the 74-year-old proved that she’s definitely aligned with the times and fully onboard with the protests that have carried on since George Floyd’s murder at the hands of Minneapolis police. “I understand people having to make themselves known and felt and seen,” said Parton. “And of course, Black lives matter. Do we think our little white asses are the only ones that matter? No!” The Queen of Nashville has officially spoken.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/9432581/dolly-parton-country-power-players-billboard-cover-story-interview-2020

the quote is from consequences of sound. That's the source interview.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I've liked Dolly Parton since I was little; some of it was my parents who listened to her music and I just continued on listening because her lyrics and voice and attitude are great. Her literacy work has been a blessing to children.

[Post Oak 20187]

If you've got a problem with Dolly, you've got a problem with yourself 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

1 hour ago, Post Oak said:

If you've got a problem with Dolly, you've got a problem with yourself 

Yeah Dolly is pretty much what we claim being an American is all about. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 8/11/2020 at 9:32 PM, bolverk said:

Hmmmmmmm indeed.

State of emergency extended in Richmond due to continued unrest

June 30, 2020 at 1:52 PM EDT - Updated June 30 at 2:03 PM
RICHMOND, Va. (WWBT) - Governor Ralph Northam has approved Mayor Levar Stoney’s request to extend the state of emergency in Richmond due to continued unrest.

Stoney sent a letter to Northam making the request on Monday and Northam granted it on Tuesday. It’s due to the weeks of protests over excessive use of force by police and clashes over monuments around the city.

Northam originally declared a state of emergency on May 31 following violent protests in Richmond over the death of George Floyd in Minnesota.

A state of emergency allows Virginia to mobilize resources, including the Virginia National Guard, and pre-position people and equipment to assist localities in their efforts to de-escalate violent protests and protect public safety.

The new state of emergency executive order will remain in effect until July 30. Read the order, HERE.

 

Hmmm indeed. Northam didn't sign the state of emergency declaration til after WEEKS of continual protests, and violent confrontations. Northam called for a state of emergency regarding the 2A rally at the capitol before the event even occurred. 

 

[bolverk 29406]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Hmmm indeed. Northam didn't sign the state of emergency declaration til after WEEKS of continual protests, and violent confrontations. Northam called for a state of emergency regarding the 2A rally at the capitol before the event even occurred. 

 

George Floyd was murdered on Monday, Memorial Day, May 25th. Your governor declared a state of emergency on Sunday, a day after the shit, May 31.

https://www.governor.virginia.gov/newsroom/all-releases/2020/may/headline-857101-en.html

It's unfortunate he didn't get notice beforehand unlike the heavily advertised and highly anticipated 2nd amendment rally in the wake of the Charlottesville debacle. Someone should have given him a heads-up that Minneapolis cops would murder a man, which would lead to protests and violence across the country.

[UpperWestside 6136]

16 hours ago, Pancho said:

I was wondering why Clayton Bigsby has been trending no twitter pretty much all day. 

 

I’m not sure he’s mental, but he’s definitely a product of his environment.  If that’s all he grew up around, then it’s not shocking or surprising that is his line of thinking and who he is.  There are lots of reasons as to why there’s always “the one” Black guy who is like this, but I’d argue it mostly has to do with “fit” and in-group/out-group. 

I would agree with that assessment. I should have probably said I wasn’t specifically talking about him, just people who espouse things like he has said have been mentally ill more often than not. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

Quote

Trinity was playing in her "Frozen" dollhouse when she was gunned down at her home Friday afternoon, according to her grandfather, Tyronn Howlett. Her father, 21-year-old Brandon Waddles, was also killed, Louisville Metro Police officials said, and an investigation into the unsolved homicides — the 96th and 97th this year in the city — is ongoing.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/16/louisville-family-mourns-trinity-randolph-killed-double-homicide/5594515002/

I'm sure the media, grifters and attention whores are organizing the protest against the death of another innocent child.

Quote

 

Percy Miller, 50, known as Master P, said he would cover the girl’s funeral costs.

“This a 3-year-old innocent girl that’s gone from her family, from her future, somebody who could have come out of the community and be the next president, doctor, lawyer, teacher,” he told the newspaper Sunday. “This is sad.”

 

But not sad enough for the nation to give a shit.

[Brisketexan 104631]

Just now, Brothahorn said:

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/16/louisville-family-mourns-trinity-randolph-killed-double-homicide/5594515002/

I'm sure the media, grifters and attention whores are organizing the protest against the death of another innocent child.

But not sad enough for the nation to give a shit.

And still misses the point.

Murderous thugs who killed this girl don't work for me, and for all of us.  So, my sway over them, and how they operate, is pretty damned limited.

Bad cops literally work for me, on my payroll.  They are entirely funded and directed by my government, which does my bidding (gov't of, by, and for the people).  So, I (and all of us, acting collectively), have real sway over how cops operate.

But even all of that said....the systems and structures that contribute to high violent crime rates in poor and minority communities ARE a focal point for action by numerous groups active in the BLM cause.  I cited to the Austin Justice Coalition before, and I will again.  https://austinjustice.org/  They have multiple efforts and initiatives.  Here's just one of their summary statements:

Quote

The Complete Communities Initiative begins with two central questions:

1) How can we undo the legacy of segregation in Austin?

2) How can we heal as a community?

This initiative will involve a sustained effort to listen to those in our communities that have been most impacted by segregation and displacement, equipping them with the tools needed to engage in the ongoing housing conversation, make informed choices, and hold elected officials accountable. Through this process, we intend to provide the city with policy proposals that can move us closer to resolving the above stated questions.

What Makes a Complete Community ?

Complete communities value all of their members.

Complete communities do not displace people in the interest of profit margins.

Complete communities do not endorse policies that lead to generations of economic segregation.

Complete communities allow people the freedom to choose where to live, but do not free them from responsibilities to their neighbors or to the communities they have moved into: a complete community values its legacies.

What does a complete community look like? (Think about it). It will be our task to dream this community together. And together, it will be our responsibility to build.

The answer is "both" -- we the people should work on both.  We should insure that the cops who work for us aren't shitbags, follow the law, and put protecting all people at the highest priority.  We should also work to address the complex structural issues and problems that have put poor and minority communities behind the eight ball and have led them to suffer physically and economically at a disproportionate level.  Those are not exclusive.  In fact, the police issue is a subset of the "complex structural issues" problem.

[Anastasis 23394]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The Complete Communities Initiative begins with two central questions:

1) How can we undo the legacy of segregation in Austin?

2) How can we heal as a community?

This initiative will involve a sustained effort to listen to those in our communities that have been most impacted by segregation and displacement, equipping them with the tools needed to engage in the ongoing housing conversation, make informed choices, and hold elected officials accountable. Through this process, we intend to provide the city with policy proposals that can move us closer to resolving the above stated questions.

What Makes a Complete Community ?

Complete communities value all of their members.

Complete communities do not displace people in the interest of profit margins.

Complete communities do not endorse policies that lead to generations of economic segregation.

Complete communities allow people the freedom to choose where to live, but do not free them from responsibilities to their neighbors or to the communities they have moved into: a complete community values its legacies.

What does a complete community look like? (Think about it). It will be our task to dream this community together. And together, it will be our responsibility to build.

This sounds a great aspirational message with zero concrete solutions proposed. 

I mean this all sounds good, but what are the concrete steps that they are proposing?

Communities value all of their members.  OK. Sure. What does the praxis behind this actually look like in terms of public policy implications.

Freedom to choose where to live? WTF does that actually mean?

[Huckleberry 32704]

21 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

But not sad enough for the nation to give a shit.

lulz, what a load of bullshit.

[Brisketexan 104631]

Just now, Anastasis said:

This sounds a great aspirational message with zero concrete solutions proposed. 

I mean this all sounds good, but what are the concrete steps that they are proposing?

Communities value all of their members.  OK. Sure. What does the praxis behind this actually look like in terms of public policy implications.

Freedom to choose where to live? WTF does that actually mean?

Dude.  I said up front it's a general statement.  From a website.  There's a shitload of work and effort involved beyond that.  Come on, man.  I'm quoting a single summary statement from a website -- their statements on the web about the police aren't a whole lot more detailed....because it's a website, not a book or lengthy manifesto.

[Brothahorn 10085]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

lulz, what a load of bullshit.

Because you truly don't give a damn. It's the latest cause for people like you. Until the next shiny object comes along.

[Anastasis 23394]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  I said up front it's a general statement.  From a website.  There's a shitload of work and effort involved beyond that.  Come on, man.  I'm quoting a single summary statement from a website -- their statements on the web about the police aren't a whole lot more detailed....because it's a website, not a book or lengthy manifesto.

Oh, I know.  It is very easy to write aspirational platitudes that really mean nothing and have zero chance of implementation.

 

That's the same knock people use against certain libertarian leaning political positions, which is why I am a little surprised to see you uncritically regurgitating them.  

[Huckleberry 32704]

2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Because you truly don't give a damn. It's the latest cause for people like you. Until the next shiny object comes along.

No, it's because it's a load of bullshit. 

The Black Lives Matter movement is about taking police to task for their discriminatory treatment of black people, and also (this is key) ensuring that officers who break the law are held accountable via the legal system. 

How many people do you think don't support murderers like in the case you posted being held accountable via the legal system? So the problem with your stupid post is that you're actually defeating your own argument. BLM isn't the one showing inconsistency in their principles, you are.

[Brisketexan 104631]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Oh, I know.  It is very easy to write aspirational platitudes that really mean nothing and have zero chance of implementation.

 

That's the same knock people use against certain libertarian leaning political positions, which is why I am a little surprised to see you uncritically regurgitating them.  

Fucking whatever, asshole.  It's a real organization, that does real shit - again, it's a goddamned website.  Want to know what they actually do?  I encourage you to contact them and do some work with them and folks affiliated -- I have, and I am.

[Anastasis 23394]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fucking whatever, asshole.  It's a real organization, that does real shit - again, it's a goddamned website.  Want to know what they actually do?  I encourage you to contact them and do some work with them and folks affiliated -- I have, and I am.

I am not sure why you are taking it so personally man. I think my questions are reasonable. What does it actually mean to say that people should have freedom to live where ever they want, and what does the praxis behind communities value all of their members actually look like.  You offered up the org as an example of the cause. These statements are obscure enough that they could basically mean anything.  I have no doubt that they are working to make the world a better place.    

[Brothahorn 10085]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And still misses the point.

Murderous thugs who killed this girl don't work for me, and for all of us.  So, my sway over them, and how they operate, is pretty damned limited.

Bad cops literally work for me, on my payroll.  They are entirely funded and directed by my government, which does my bidding (gov't of, by, and for the people).  So, I (and all of us, acting collectively), have real sway over how cops operate.

But even all of that said....the systems and structures that contribute to high violent crime rates in poor and minority communities ARE a focal point for action by numerous groups active in the BLM cause.  I cited to the Austin Justice Coalition before, and I will again.  https://austinjustice.org/  They have multiple efforts and initiatives.  Here's just one of their summary statements:

 

And you still don't understand.

Cops should not be killing blacks without reason, period. We're not going to disagree on that. But if we could snap our fingers and stop all police shootings today, it wouldn't have saved this child's life. So it's bigger than just the police. For every black person killed by a cop, how many black people are killed by another black person? I stopped keeping up with the numbers, because it's depressing. A black life lost is a black life lost, damn who killed them. 

And it's not about the organization you know or a couple of people you know. I'm well aware of many organizations and people on the local level. It's about the nation's response as whole when it comes to these type of killings. The problem is not going to get fixed without national attention in the same we approach the Eric Garner/George Floyd's.

If you can't understand that, then black lives really don't matter to you. You actually care about people who are killed by cops.

 

 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This sounds a great aspirational message with zero concrete solutions proposed. 

I mean this all sounds good, but what are the concrete steps that they are proposing?

Communities value all of their members.  OK. Sure. What does the praxis behind this actually look like in terms of public policy implications.

Freedom to choose where to live? WTF does that actually mean?

I figured out how we're going to get rid of Austin segregation.  We are going to price the poors out altogether.  But as long as you have the money, you can feel free to live wherever you want.  And for a short while, if you don't have the money and are already here, when your historically non-white neighborhood gets targeted you can live in harmony with the white people moving in, but that's going to lead to drastic increases in property taxes as they gentrify around you, and you are going to end up not being able to afford to stay, even if you already paid the place off.  If you are renting your exit will be required even faster.  That's the problem I'm seeing in Austin today.  I haven't heard a good solution to that problem.  

There could also be racism tied in there, but TBH, most of my friends are not white but white collar, so I have a hard time gauging in Austin how much racism is a factor in just day to day life outside of the police and club bouncers who enforce dress codes to cover their racism, and I don't know how much say banks and realtors may play a part in keeping people in/out of particular areas.  

[Brothahorn 10085]

20 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

No, it's because it's a load of bullshit. 

The Black Lives Matter movement is about taking police to task for their discriminatory treatment of black people, and also (this is key) ensuring that officers who break the law are held accountable via the legal system. 

How many people do you think don't support murderers like in the case you posted being held accountable via the legal system? So the problem with your stupid post is that you're actually defeating your own argument. BLM isn't the one showing inconsistency in their principles, you are.

Go back to your circle jerk, tweets and social media pandering until the cops kill another black person. Then, you can play pretend again. Nevermind, how many black lives will have been lost by then. 

And FYI, the legal system doesn't hold them accountable. The unsolved homicide rate is atrocious in those areas. So you're still full of shit, playing pretend.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Brothahorn

[Brisketexan 104631]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am not sure why you are taking it so personally man. I think my questions are reasonable. What does it actually mean to say that people should have freedom to live where ever they want, and what does the praxis behind communities value all of their members actually look like.  You offered up the org as an example of the cause. These statements are obscure enough that they could basically mean anything.  I have no doubt that they are working to make the world a better place.    

And I posted the link to one example -- ONE -- of people who give a shit about black lives matter issues beyond the police.  That was literally the ENTIRE PURPOSE of citing that.  I could cite any number of other groups in other locations as evidence that BLM doesn't just give a shit about police abuse.  If you want to have a separate thread to discuss all the things that can and should be done to address the shitty situation of the poor and minorities in this country, have at it.

The discussion here was literally a foolish statement that BLM types don't give a shit about anything but cops, including violent crime and other issues that affect the black community.  I rebutted that broad statement with a single example.  That's it.  That's all I did.  You are having an entirely separate discussion and argument about the intricacies of those efforts, what elements are effective, what else can be done, who met with who in the legislature, what exact words were said, etc. -- none of which is relevant when the point is "advocacy groups give a shit about more than just bad cops."  You're being a pointless pedant.

[Anastasis 23394]

I don't think it's pedantry, I am sincerely curious in what real world solutions they are proposing.  Not sure why you are getting so rustled up about it. It's a good opportunity to evangelize for them. If they don't have any concrete policy solutions and just aspirational thinking that is ok too. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Anastasis

[Brisketexan 104631]

8 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

And you still don't understand.

Cops should not be killing blacks without reason, period. We're not going to disagree on that. But if we could snap our fingers and stop all police shootings today, it wouldn't have saved this child's life. So it's bigger than just the police. For every black person killed by a cop, how many black people are killed by another black person? I stopped keeping up with the numbers, because it's depressing. A black life lost is a black life lost, damn who killed them. 

And it's not about the organization you know or a couple of people you know. I'm well aware of many organizations and people on the local level. It's about the nation's response as whole when it comes to these type of killings. The problem is not going to get fixed without national attention in the same we approach the Eric Garner/George Floyd's.

If you can't understand that, then black lives really don't matter to you. You actually care about people who are killed by cops.

 

 

I don't disagree.  This is a good post.

Police killings are the dramatic, and most egregious, incident that can draw people's attention.  It's human psychology -- same reason gals with big boobs in beer commercials gets eyes on the screen.  Dramatic things draw attention.  But now that the attention is there, what's next?  I cited the AJC because Chas Moore in particular has had some really good things to say along those lines -- to the effect of "welcome to the cause, people....but if you think this conversation is going to be just about cops, and not shit that's going to make a lot of you uncomfortable, think again."  He and a whole lot of other folks have actually done a really good job of noting that while high-profile acts of police violence have brought attention to what it is to be black in  America, there's a whole lot more going on, and the work is going to be hard and take a shitload of effort.

As for your last statement, I get it.  But it's not an either/or, at least not entirely.  Because the structural problems with policing, while they absolutely contain a significant racial and racist component, are bigger than just race.  What our police and justice system are, and what they do, has a lot to do with poverty, power, and control.  It's how a shitload of people interface with their government every day, often having more contact with them than any other gov't entity, and way to many of those interactions are negative and abusive.  It's a symptom of a much bigger broken system of have vs. have-not that, as has so long been the case, falls more heavily on minorities.

So, I appreciate the post and the conversation.

[TXSG8R 3360]

22 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

And you still don't understand.

Cops should not be killing blacks without reason, period. We're not going to disagree on that. But if we could snap our fingers and stop all police shootings today, it wouldn't have saved this child's life. So it's bigger than just the police. For every black person killed by a cop, how many black people are killed by another black person? I stopped keeping up with the numbers, because it's depressing. A black life lost is a black life lost, damn who killed them. 

And it's not about the organization you know or a couple of people you know. I'm well aware of many organizations and people on the local level. It's about the nation's response as whole when it comes to these type of killings. The problem is not going to get fixed without national attention in the same we approach the Eric Garner/George Floyd's.

If you can't understand that, then black lives really don't matter to you. You actually care about people who are killed by cops.

 

 

Only one of those things you mentioned are controllable by the gov't, ergo the populace can protest to enact change within the gov't to try to reduce the disproportionate killing of black people by cops.  Black people dying to other black people, or diabetes, or car accidents, aren't really something the gov't can make simple policy changes to agents under their control that would have immediate or meaningful impacts for.  The gov't doesn't cut "another black person" their monthly check.  The gov't doesn't provide "another black person" their training, equipment, rules, and policies.  The gov't doesn't provide "another black person" a different path through the criminal justice system or outright immunity for their actions.  The gov't doesn't allow "another black person" the ability to walk away from a career ending incident like murder and simply walk into the same job in another city or state.  

I don't know how anyone can fail to understand this.  

 

edit:  failed to quantify the career ending incident.  

Edited August 17, 2020 by TXSG8R

[Brothahorn 10085]

Only one of those things you mentioned are controllable by the gov't, ergo the populace can protest to enact change within the gov't to try to reduce the disproportionate killing of black people by cops.  Black people dying to other black people, or diabetes, or car accidents, aren't really something the gov't can make simple policy changes to agents under their control that would have immediate or meaningful impacts for.  The gov't doesn't cut "another black person" their monthly check.  The gov't doesn't provide "another black person" their training, equipment, rules, and policies.  The gov't doesn't provide "another black person" a different path through the criminal justice system or outright immunity for their actions.  The gov't doesn't allow "another black person" the ability to walk away from a career ending incident like murder and simply walk into the same job in another city or state.  
I don't know how anyone can fail to understand this.  
 
edit:  failed to quantify the career ending incident.  

Apparently you didn’t read what you quoted but decided to ramble on anyway.

The populace can and should be speaking up on the ridiculous amount of black lives lost to cops and other blacks. You don’t need the government for that do you? The same way the populace spoke out for George Floyd they can speak for the 100s of men, women and children who have lost their lives. You can do both. But we as a nation chose not to do so, because only certain black lives matter. If you say black lives matter then all of them should matter.

I don’t know how anyone can fail to understand that.

Oh, wait yes I do..they really don’t care about black lives.

[leaf 681]

On 8/13/2020 at 7:59 PM, cactusflinthead said:

If you need a reason to like Dolly here ya go. 

On the topic of BLM, the 74-year-old proved that she’s definitely aligned with the times and fully onboard with the protests that have carried on since George Floyd’s murder at the hands of Minneapolis police. “I understand people having to make themselves known and felt and seen,” said Parton. “And of course, Black lives matter. Do we think our little white asses are the only ones that matter? No!” The Queen of Nashville has officially spoken.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/9432581/dolly-parton-country-power-players-billboard-cover-story-interview-2020

the quote is from consequences of sound. That's the source interview.

I think her rack is reason enough to like her.

[TXSG8R 3360]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

Apparently you didn’t read what you quoted but decided to ramble on anyway.

The populace can and should be speaking up on the ridiculous amount of black lives lost to cops and other blacks. You don’t need the government for that do you? The same way the populace spoke out for George Floyd they can speak for the 100s of men, women and children who have lost their lives. You can do both. But we as a nation chose not to do so, because only certain black lives matter. If you say black lives matter then all of them should matter.

I don’t know how anyone can fail to understand that.

Oh, wait yes I do..they really don’t care about black lives.

BLM is a targeted organization, just like MADD is a targeted organization.  Supporting MADD doesn't mean you only care about people killed by drunk driving, or you can only join/support if you're a mother.  You can, shockingly, support more than one organization or idea, or not get tied up in semantics when supporting a cause.  Supporting BLM and their crusade against the killing of black people by agents of the government does not mean you don't care about black people being killed by black people.  The populace can do whatever it wants to do, but protesting is generally focused on an entity.  Corporation doing something wrong?  You protest their headquarters, or their factories/offices/workers to try to enact change.  Government doing something wrong?  Protest.  Random violence?  Uh, make BLM protest it too somewhere somehow maybe?  

Again, BLM's protests of the gov't makes sense.  Its a narrow issue (cops killing black people), and the protests of the gov't (who is in charge of said cops) can create change.  BLM doesn't need to change their focus to satisfy you or the fucking slogan police.  The killing of black by other blacks, while tragic, does not really have a place to focus that energy to create change through protest from a grass-root, unstructured organization.  Do you really care this much about semantics?

[Nivek 16861]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Apparently you didn’t read what you quoted but decided to ramble on anyway.

The populace can and should be speaking up on the ridiculous amount of black lives lost to cops and other blacks. You don’t need the government for that do you? The same way the populace spoke out for George Floyd they can speak for the 100s of men, women and children who have lost their lives. You can do both. But we as a nation chose not to do so, because only certain black lives matter. If you say black lives matter then all of them should matter.

I don’t know how anyone can fail to understand that.

Oh, wait yes I do..they really don’t care about black lives.

 You didn't mention breast cancer.  Do you hate women?

 

[Brothahorn 10085]

39 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

BLM is a targeted organization, just like MADD is a targeted organization.  Supporting MADD doesn't mean you only care about people killed by drunk driving, or you can only join/support if you're a mother.  You can, shockingly, support more than one organization or idea, or not get tied up in semantics when supporting a cause.  Supporting BLM and their crusade against the killing of black people by agents of the government does not mean you don't care about black people being killed by black people.  The populace can do whatever it wants to do, but protesting is generally focused on an entity.  Corporation doing something wrong?  You protest their headquarters, or their factories/offices/workers to try to enact change.  Government doing something wrong?  Protest.  Random violence?  Uh, make BLM protest it too somewhere somehow maybe?  

Again, BLM's protests of the gov't makes sense.  Its a narrow issue (cops killing black people), and the protests of the gov't (who is in charge of said cops) can create change.  BLM doesn't need to change their focus to satisfy you or the fucking slogan police.  The killing of black by other blacks, while tragic, does not really have a place to focus that energy to create change through protest from a grass-root, unstructured organization.  Do you really care this much about semantics?

Actions speak louder than words. The silence from the social justice set along with the media, paints a very detailed picture of just how much they care. The focus should be in the communities where these lives are being taken. It's not that hard to understand, if people cared as much as they pretend to.

I don't care about the semantics, I care about the lives lost and potential lives lost while we pretend to care.

[TXSG8R 3360]

10 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Actions speak louder than words. The silence from the social justice set along with the media, paints a very detailed picture of just how much they care. The focus should be in the communities where these lives are being taken. It's not that hard to understand, if people cared as much as they pretend to.

I don't care about the semantics, I care about the lives lost and potential lives lost while we pretend to care.

Quote

Using the “black-on-black” crime argument you would think black people are the only ones killing each other. The circumstances related to the murders that are occurring are rarely taken into consideration. Of the murders and non-negligent manslaughters where circumstances are known, 24% of people were killed as the result of an argument; only 3.9% are during the course of a robbery; and just 4.3 % are gang related.

According to 2018 data, when race of offenders and victims are known, (which is in just 45.7 percent of murders), 81 percent of whites are listed as killed by other whites, 15.5 percent of whites are listed as killed by blacks, 88.9 percent of blacks are listed as killed by other blacks and 8 percent of blacks are listed as killed by whites.

Most people are unaware of these statistics. As a result, they yell and scream that black people need to stop killing other black people with out ever once saying white people need to stop killing other white people. I hear many consistently say that unless we stop killing each other, we should not complain about the police killing black people. People of all racial groups tend to kill people who look like them.

The police on the other hand, kill blacks disproportionately. Data from 2013-2019 shows that Black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as White Americans to be shot and killed by police officers. In Wisconsin, Blacks are 6.32 % of residents but accounted for 24% of those killed by police according to Mapping Police Violence.

Between 2013 and 2019, police in the United States killed 7,666 people. Black people have been 28% of those killed by police since 2013 despite being only 13% of the population. Of those 7,666 killed by police over 1,000 were unarmed and 17.3% of the black people who died as a result of police interactions were unarmed, a rate higher than for Whites (13.3%), and Hispanics (15.5%).

The problem is getting worse. People of color were more likely to be the killed by police in 2019 than they were in 2014. In 2019, 54% of those killed by police and whose race was identified were people of color — including Asian, Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander individuals — compared to 50% in 2014. Through the end of June, 2020, 598 people have been killed by police; at this time in 2019 it was 534, (590) in 2018, (551) in 2017, (545) in 2016 and (516) in 2015.

A quick comparison of a couple of cities shows that it is not an issue with every department. Buffalo, NY (population 258,959) 50% non-white and Orlando, Fl (population 255,483) 42% non-white, had huge differences in police killings. From 2013-2016 Buffalo police did not kill a single person while Orlando police killed 13 people. The Milwaukee Police Department killed 17 from 2013-2019, all but three were black.

Despite all of the attention on this issue since 2014, only about 1% of police officers involved with these deaths have been charged with a crime and even less are convicted, according to Mapping Police Violence. It is not just a problem of unarmed blacks being killed either. From 2013- 2019, 336 unarmed blacks, 452 unarmed whites, 201 unarmed Hispanics and 12 unarmed Asians were killed by police.

Obviously we should be concerned about murders within the black community. There is very little we can do about people getting angry and killing someone in an argument or in a domestic violence homicide. Protests against murders simply do not make a lot of sense because the people who murder rarely contemplated the killing ahead of time like we see in so many fake tv cop dramas and bad Hollywood movies.

https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/stop-accusing-black-lives-matter-movement-ignoring-called-black-black-crime/

I encourage you to read the entire article.

 

Quote

When an opponent of Black Lives Matters talks about “blacks killing blacks” it’s almost always to deflect attention away from police brutality. As if one issue makes the other more acceptable.

When someone commits an act of terrorism against in the United States, which rightfully leads to anger and sadness, no one asks, “Well what about how many Americans kill other Americans each year?” Because that would crazy, now wouldn’t it?

But, by all means, let’s talk about “black on black crime.” You’ve probably heard a statistic like this before – The majority of black people murdered are killed by other black people. That’s true, but also misleading. The overwhelming majority of white murder victims each year are killed by white assailants. So, when’s the last time you heard the term “white on white crime?”

As shocking as it may be for some to hear, people generally commit crimes against people they know or live near. If you want to have a real discussion about crime, let’s talk about the factors that contribute to it happening in the first place.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/06/stop-using-black-on-black-crime-to-deflect-away-from-police-brutality.html

 

Quote

“When a civilian has committed a violent crime, they’re generally arrested, tried and then convicted,” Franchesca Ramsey, a writer and activist who discusses race, explains in the MTV series Decoded (which you can watch here in full).

“Conversely, there’s a lot of evidence that it’s very rare to secure an indictment against a police officer for excessive force. And an indictment is just a trial; it isn’t even a conviction.”

“Black Lives Matter isn’t just about the loss of life, which is always terrible. It’s about the lack of consequences when black lives are taken at the hands of police.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

 

And to beat this horse thoroughly, BLM in their own words.

Quote

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.

 

[Huckleberry 32704]

35 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/stop-accusing-black-lives-matter-movement-ignoring-called-black-black-crime/

I encourage you to read the entire article.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/06/stop-using-black-on-black-crime-to-deflect-away-from-police-brutality.html

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

 

And to beat this horse thoroughly, BLM in their own words.

 

You're arguing in good faith with someone who is full of shit. 

I'm sure he frequently cries on the internet about how March for Life has never said a word about black-on-black murders either. No, wait, he hasn't because he's full of shit. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

3 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/stop-accusing-black-lives-matter-movement-ignoring-called-black-black-crime/

I encourage you to read the entire article

 

https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399
 

A link to the 2016 Harvard study on 

An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force

Roland G. Fryer, Jr

 

The article linked above does not differentiate between armed and unarmed suspects shot by the police. Nor do they take account of the fact that 50% of homicides and more than 50% of violent crimes are committed by 13% (actually closer to 6.6%) of the population. Common sense says these types of LEO encounters are inherently more dangerous. The study does show a real problem with police more willing to use physical violence against minority suspects. But cops are simply not roaming around shooting unarmed black men. 
 

all of this helps to avoid real progress by only addressing a symptom of the overall issue. The real progress will be lowering both the violent crime (why-education, poverty, no opportunity etc) and the police response to it. Making it all about the police is a great straw man that allows personal responsibility to be easily brushed aside. 
 

Will defunding the police change the homicide and violent crime statistics for the African American community?  To what degree and why?

[Brisketexan 104631]

48 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

all of this helps to avoid real progress by only addressing a symptom of the overall issue. The real progress will be lowering both the violent crime (why-education, poverty, no opportunity etc) and the police response to it. Making it all about the police is a great straw man that allows personal responsibility to be easily brushed aside. 
 

Will defunding the police change the homicide and violent crime statistics for the African American community?  To what degree and why?

ALL about police?  Sure, it shouldn't be ALL about police.  Oh, and the red herring of only looking at homicides (or even more limited, police "shootings" as opposed to chokings, beatings, etc.) is deceptive as hell.  How about this: negative encounters with cops include violent assault up to and including death of the victim, false charges being brought/false statements made against the victim, and broadly speaking, disparate application of policing actions on minorities (questioning two black guys hanging out in a hotel lobby waiting for a friend, but not two white guys doing the same thing).  When you look at the entire negative encounters picture.....come on, are we even still having this conversation? Everyone knows how this shit goes.

But to answer your question at the end, actually, YES -- completely revamping how police interact with a community, building trust and reliability, will help reduce crime in those communities.  Turn "never talk to the cops, they'll fuck you over" to "work with the cops, they are working WITH us to help our community improve" yields tangible results.  When the police are your enemy, you aren't going to work with them, ever -- even when it might be to your advantage in a specific case.  When the police have demonstrated trustworthiness, you are more likely to work with them to achieve a common goal.

There are actually numerous examples of such efforts on a local level that have yielded just such results.  The challenge is that it takes time to build relationship and trust, and a shitload of PDs and cops are not just unwilling to do so, they are stridently opposed - they prefer their "I'm at war, and this is Fallujah, hoorah git some!" approach.

[Nivek 16861]

15 hours ago, Nivek said:

 You didn't mention breast cancer.  Do you hate women?

 

Hey asshole, you didn't mention that our government is traumatizing children as a matter of immigration policy.  Do you even care?   

[elfenix 34172]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

disparate application of policing actions on minorities

good old pretextual stops.

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/poverty-journal/blog/traffic-stops-and-discriminatory-policing-in-the-united-states/

[hobbes2702 12847]

19 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

And you still don't understand.

Cops should not be killing blacks without reason, period. We're not going to disagree on that. But if we could snap our fingers and stop all police shootings today, it wouldn't have saved this child's life. So it's bigger than just the police. For every black person killed by a cop, how many black people are killed by another black person? I stopped keeping up with the numbers, because it's depressing. A black life lost is a black life lost, damn who killed them. 

And it's not about the organization you know or a couple of people you know. I'm well aware of many organizations and people on the local level. It's about the nation's response as whole when it comes to these type of killings. The problem is not going to get fixed without national attention in the same we approach the Eric Garner/George Floyd's.

If you can't understand that, then black lives really don't matter to you. You actually care about people who are killed by cops.

 

 

None of that has anything to do with the topic and is bullshit obfuscation 

[RPM 26230]

Now this is going too by God far!

'Squidbillies' fires actor Stuart D. Baker for 'offensive' comments about Dolly Parton, Black Lives Matter

Honestly, they were offended? I haven't seen the tweet and it doesn't matter what it said. The whole concept of Squidbillies is to be as offensive af. I haz disappoint.

[UpperWestside 6136]

3 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/stop-accusing-black-lives-matter-movement-ignoring-called-black-black-crime/

I encourage you to read the entire article.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/06/stop-using-black-on-black-crime-to-deflect-away-from-police-brutality.html

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

 

And to beat this horse thoroughly, BLM in their own words.

 

I think it’s fair to say you are attempting to reason with a person to whom reason does not matter and never will. Thankfully this construct is also being tossed to the dustbin of history in favor of people actually pushing forward to enact change even if it is an inch-by-inch proposition at times.