COVID-19 2nd wave - Texas only - Stats and such

[DDD Dad 14252]

My mom's dead you asshole.  The hardest endpoint there is.
ps: not really. 

She was far from dead the other night.

[Walte464 450]

The valleys cases are beginning to decline, only 30 confirmed covid deaths today. Could the decline be due to less testing, only time will tell as hospitals aren’t seeing declines in patients.

 

Now on to a more personal matter (sorry venting), had a Gm that got covid 3 weeks ago, he had been on a ventilator for a week and a half and kicked it on August 4th and sent home to recover. On August 7th, he was readmitted into the hospital and placed on a ventilator again. This morning, we lost a kind and generous soul,  RIP Gustavo, you fought a tough fight, till we meet again.

[Anastasis 23394]

32 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

She was far from dead the other night.

@NowThis?

[Bevo 13527]

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

My mom's dead you asshole.  The hardest endpoint there is.

ps: not really. 

She loved my hard endpoint last night.

You're welcome.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bevo

[Bevo 13527]

7 hours ago, Walte464 said:

The valleys cases are beginning to decline, only 30 confirmed covid deaths today. Could the decline be due to less testing, only time will tell as hospitals aren’t seeing declines in patients.

 

Now on to a more personal matter (sorry venting), had a Gm that got covid 3 weeks ago, he had been on a ventilator for a week and a half and kicked it on August 4th and sent home to recover. On August 7th, he was readmitted into the hospital and placed on a ventilator again. This morning, we lost a kind and generous soul,  RIP Gustavo, you fought a tough fight, till we meet again.

A girl who works for me lost her aunt last night. She lived in Monterrey and was not admitted into the hospital (I assume because of lack of resources).

[BrazilHorn 6576]

Daily update for Travis County. Barely stayed in the 200-300 range (296) that Travis has been hovering in by and large the past couple of weeks. Good jump in 1-19 ranges which I expect is camp related. I won't be shocked to see these groups continue to run above their typical average as back to school starts soon.

Age Bracket	<1	1 to 9	10 to 19	20 to 29	30 to 39	40 to 49	50 to 59	60 to 69	70 to 79	>80	Total
New Cases 8/11 vs 8/10	0	21	34	67	52	60	23	22	12	5	296
% of Daily Change	0.00%	7.09%	11.49%	22.64%	17.57%	20.27%	7.77%	7.43%	4.05%	1.69%
% of Total Cases	0.51%	2.86%	8.08%	26.63%	21.45%	16.41%	11.65%	6.60%	3.33%	2.49%	23,249

[atomheartbevo 89449]

Somebody wanting to shop at a Fresh Plus in Austin got pissed about having to wear a mask and smashed some windows.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/fresh-plus-store-vandalized-after-reported-argument-with-customer-over-wearing-a-mask/

A Fresh Plus customer arguing about a mask?  On the one hand, a chunk of their clientele is probably paranoid about catching all kinds of diseases from processed foods, pesticides, etc.

On the other hand, a chunk of their clientele doesn't believe in vaccines and thinks we should be having parties to expose people/kids to various diseases, because that's the way Mother Nature intended.

Oh.

[atomheartbevo 89449]

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/neighbors-concerned-about-byob-dance-parties-at-austin-roller-rink-during-pandemic/

Quote

According to event advertising online, this will be the third Saturday night in a row for the BYOB “Kickin’ It Country Dance Night” held at Austin Roller Rink.

Quote

One online ad for last week’s party said, “We are limiting capacity to 600 but can hold way more than that.” That detail is not included in the ad for this Saturday’s event.

Rangel and Minton said the parking lot has been full on Saturday nights, and they have seen the partying pour into the parking lot where customers hang out and drink by their cars.

Quote

When KXAN reached out to Austin Roller Rink asking for more information about the parties, they said in a Facebook message:

“Austin Roller Rink is following all of the Governor’s orders and code enforcement has been out every day, and we have no issues. The real story is the harassment of local businesses.”

First of all, having plenty of relatives that listen to a lot of country music and go dancing, I know there's got to be a lot of pre-existing conditions among those 600 or so dancers.

Second, fuck you Austin Roller Rink, it's not harassment of local businesses - we are in the middle of a global pandemic, and we just went through a rough patch in Austin and are trying to keep that curve flat, and you're bragging about being able to handle more than 600 people dancing in close quarters. 

[Deej 76568]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/neighbors-concerned-about-byob-dance-parties-at-austin-roller-rink-during-pandemic/

First of all, having plenty of relatives that listen to a lot of country music and go dancing, I know there's got to be a lot of pre-existing conditions among those 600 or so dancers.

Second, fuck you Austin Roller Rink, it's not harassment of local businesses - we are in the middle of a global pandemic, and we just went through a rough patch in Austin and are trying to keep that curve flat, and you're bragging about being able to handle more than 600 people dancing in close quarters. 

Sounds like a good opportunity for a FitLump campaign event. 

[atomheartbevo 89449]

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

Sounds like a good opportunity for a FitLump campaign event. 

Wrong district, but I don't think that'd stop her.

I love how in some photos on her feeds, she looks like she's following proper disaster scientist pandemic protocols along with the people she's around, and in others, they are like "fuck it, mom and dad aren't home, let's party!"

[Deej 76568]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Wrong district, but I don't think that'd stop her.

I love how in some photos on her feeds, she looks like she's following proper disaster scientist pandemic protocols along with the people she's around, and in others, they are like "fuck it, mom and dad aren't home, let's party!"

The threat of disease has never stopped her. 

[Guest]

On 8/10/2020 at 2:13 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Divorce filings down this summer in Travis and Williamson Counties versus a year ago (50%+ in Travis, 40%+ in Wilco).

https://www.kxan.com/news/divorce-during-the-pandemic-which-way-are-the-numbers-trending/

Did not see a corresponding spike in homicide or murder-suicides, but apparently call to divorce attorneys have been way up.

 

Still covid death...

[ZB'Tejas 593]

My kids pre-school started their fall session on Monday. Today they quarantined an entire class due to a student testing positive for Covid-19. They made it two days. Two fucking days.

Ugh. Mine is scheduled to start in Sept and I hope they can figure it out. They said they will give us a tuition break if they have to stay closed longer than two weeks so we shall see if that’s possible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StruggleBus 3922]

23 hours ago, EE2B said:

My kids pre-school started their fall session on Monday. Today they quarantined an entire class due to a student testing positive for Covid-19. They made it two days. Two fucking days.

Gotta ask... why even send them? It’s pre-school 

[dcbc 14410]

Friend of mine who teaches 3rd grade had to go in for an in-service day.  20/34 wearing masks.  No social distancing  He sat in the back away from everyone.  He goes to the principal at the break and politely asks WTF.  Principal says they only have to wear masks where social distancing isn't possible.  And he can sit in the back away from everyone.  Well, he emails the picture to our mutual friend who is the president of the school board.  Friend sends it on to District Superintendent.  Within 30 minutes, principal at elementary school leaves to take a quick phone call.  Comes back.  Tells everyone to put on a fucking mask. 

Principal approaches my friend at the next break and asks him if he sent the picture.  Friend says yes.  Principal schedules a meeting for 8:15 a.m. the next day.  Got word today that friend was told all is well, but please let the principal know next time before he goes up the ladder.

Uh, seems principal realizes friend has friends in higher places.  I'm pretty sure that WTF with the masks conversation was the conversation.

Long story short, we're dealing with idiots in east Texas (no big surprise).  My kiddos are remoting in for the first six weeks to study a little thing I like to call "proof of concept."

[Neonmoon 38127]

Everyone loves their family until they’re forced to spend time with them 

[Planet Houston 4923]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/neighbors-concerned-about-byob-dance-parties-at-austin-roller-rink-during-pandemic/

First of all, having plenty of relatives that listen to a lot of country music and go dancing, I know there's got to be a lot of pre-existing conditions among those 600 or so dancers.

Second, fuck you Austin Roller Rink, it's not harassment of local businesses - we are in the middle of a global pandemic, and we just went through a rough patch in Austin and are trying to keep that curve flat, and you're bragging about being able to handle more than 600 people dancing in close quarters. 

Baylor grads must be so confused about how to feel about this development. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Planet Houston

[Stannis 232]

A close, life-long friend is getting married in December.  The wedding is going to be at a partial indoor/partial outdoor venue in a small Texas town, with several hundred guests invited.  I'm a groomsman, along with several other very close, life-long friends.  The bride and groom have several days of activities planned leading up to the wedding, with room-blocks booked at hotels and shuttles taking everyone from place to place.  I will be shocked if anyone has a mask on.

Out of the two-dozen or so people I know who are part of the wedding, I've not heard anyone raise any concerns.  My wife and I are planning on telling the bride and groom that we do not feel comfortable attending.  While we are all still (relatively) young, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills observing how nonchalant everyone else is being about going to a wedding, with zero alterations to account for the fact that the state, country, and planet are in the middle of a global pandemic.  I suppose there is a theoretical chance a really effective treatment could be announced between now and then, but with vaccines looking unlikely until early 2021, it seems probable that COVID will still be spreading in December.

I love these friends dearly and do not want to hurt them.  But I also don't think it is responsible to pretend like the world in December 2020 will be the same as it was in December 2019.  I guess I'm looking for affirmation that I'm not unreasonable for hesitating about attending?  

[atomheartbevo 89449]

22 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Long story short, we're dealing with idiots in east Texas (no big surprise).  My kiddos are remoting in for the first six weeks to study a little thing I like to call "proof of concept."

Crossposting, but this should help them understand it.  That high school in Georgia, where this photo was taken last week.

They decided to go online for a couple of days this week, because they were waiting on test results and contact tracing.  Well, things went south for that district and school.

https://www.ajc.com/education/update-826-students-under-quarantine-in-cherokee-after-covid-19-exposures/5HAASRHSRFBMHIQSUT5ABNEZIY/ 

Quote

In the six days that Cherokee County schools have been in session, the North Georgia district has had to direct 826 students to quarantine due to possible exposure to COVID-19, along with 42 teachers.

And this is that high school in the photo above:

Quote

For example, as of Monday night, Etowah High School has 12.5% or 300 of its 2,400 student students under quarantine. Etowah became a key part of the national debate on safe returns to school after seniors posed shoulder to shoulder for a class photo on the first day back to school last week. The photo went viral.

826 students, 42 teachers, and counting, are going to be riding out 2-week quarantines at home.

[dcbc 14410]

2 minutes ago, Stannis said:

A close, life-long friend is getting married in December.  The wedding is going to be at a partial indoor/partial outdoor venue in a small Texas town, with several hundred guests invited.  I'm a groomsman, along with several other very close, life-long friends.  The bride and groom have several days of activities planned leading up to the wedding, with room-blocks booked at hotels and shuttles taking everyone from place to place.  I will be shocked if anyone has a mask on.

Out of the two-dozen or so people I know who are part of the wedding, I've not heard anyone raise any concerns.  My wife and I are planning on telling the bride and groom that we do not feel comfortable attending.  While we are all still (relatively) young, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills observing how nonchalant everyone else is being about going to a wedding, with zero alterations to account for the fact that the state, country, and planet are in the middle of a global pandemic.  I suppose there is a theoretical chance a really effective treatment could be announced between now and then, but with vaccines looking unlikely until early 2021, it seems probable that COVID will still be spreading in December.

I love these friends dearly and do not want to hurt them.  But I also don't think it is responsible to pretend like the world in December 2020 will be the same as it was in December 2019.  I guess I'm looking for affirmation that I'm not unreasonable for hesitating about attending?  

My uncle, a close one, remarried last weekend.  30 people max in a back room of a restaurant.  I told him we'd let my niece stream it on Zoom, but we would not be coming.  He said he'd have a party for everyone next year.  I thought, then why have a big group to the wedding with an immediate reception for three hours afterward in a single space.  Dude is 70b years old.   That the ever loving hell is he thinking.  Go to the courthouse.  Get hitched.  Screw.  See you next year.

[dcbc 14410]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Crossposting, but this should help them understand it.  That high school in Georgia, where this photo was taken last week.

They decided to go online for a couple of days this week, because they were waiting on test results and contact tracing.  Well, things went south for that district and school.

https://www.ajc.com/education/update-826-students-under-quarantine-in-cherokee-after-covid-19-exposures/5HAASRHSRFBMHIQSUT5ABNEZIY/ 

And this is that high school in the photo above:

826 students, 42 teachers, and counting, are going to be riding out 2-week quarantines at home.

Yeah, our kids schools according to the principals, will, at least, be doing one way hallway class changes, which, I told my older son, was great if you were in the front of the line.  My kids are good mask wearers.  We've let them do things, masked up, that I wasn't entirely comfortable with.  But the sheer numbers and impossibilities of social distancing at play here was a nonstarter.  And it still was a hard decision since my kids are 9th and 6th grades, transitional years.  But I'm relieved for now, until the next decision in 7 weeks, which I'm assuming, but not 100% relying on, will be made for me.

[Js1 85110]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

My uncle, a close one, remarried last weekend.  30 people max in a back room of a restaurant.  I told him we'd let my niece stream it on Zoom, but we would not be coming.  He said he'd have a party for everyone next year.  I thought, then why have a big group to the wedding with an immediate reception for three hours afterward in a single space.  Dude is 70b years old.   That the ever loving hell is he thinking.  Go to the courthouse.  Get hitched.  Screw.  See you next year.

@Armybrat got remarried? 

[justhookit 4180]

I’m lucky. Family probably breaks down roughly half Republican half Democrat. My first cousin got married recently and didn’t invite anyone. This would have been a big wedding. There was a Zoom family party a few days later and there will be a real party whenever it’s appropriate. Nobody made a big deal out of it one way or the other.

[EE2B 1561]

Gotta ask... why even send them? It’s pre-school 

We are not sending her this year. We are paying 25% of the tuition to hold her spot instead of trying to find a new school.

[gmr548 16517]

[mention=1205]Armybrat[/mention] got remarried? 

His grandson maybe

[Bevo 13527]

1 hour ago, EE2B said:

We are not sending her this year. We are paying 25% of the tuition to hold her spot instead of trying to find a new school.

Wow, now that is a racket. I assume that isn't a prepayment/deposit. Would you like to hold your spot for a visit to the doctor? I'm taking reservations for a fee now.

[EE2B 1561]

It’s definitely not ideal, but it’s the best preschool anywhere around here. The last time they held registration, people parked RV’s in the parking lot a week ahead of time in order to get in line. It’s insane.

Also, we do pre-pay for doctors visits. Isn’t that what insurance is?

[BrazilHorn 6576]

Couple of things of note on the day over day for Travis County.

1) Reduction (again) in the <1 bracket by 1 case. This has happened a couple of times prior and I am unsure why TCAD makes these changes unless original was coded in error

2) BIG jump in the 1-9 bracket with ~14% of yesterday's cases being from this cohort. This is over 4x more than their typical share of cases. Possibly led to either a) camp or b) parents testing ahead of school starting etc or c) who the fuck knows

Age Bracket	<1	1 to 9	10 to 19	20 to 29	30 to 39	40 to 49	50 to 59	60 to 69	70 to 79	>80	Total
New Cases 8/12 vs 8/11	-1	24	13	35	44	14	14	13	10	6	172
% of Daily Change	-0.58%	13.95%	7.56%	20.35%	25.58%	8.14%	8.14%	7.56%	5.81%	3.49%
% of Total Cases	0.50%	2.94%	8.07%	26.58%	21.48%	16.35%	11.62%	6.61%	3.35%	2.50%	23,421

[Captainant 27465]

7 minutes ago, EE2B said:

Also, we do pre-pay for doctors visits. Isn’t that what insurance is?

Lol thinking insurance companies exist to improve access to care

[Sawbonz 27436]

14 minutes ago, EE2B said:

It’s definitely not ideal, but it’s the best preschool anywhere around here. The last time they held registration, people parked RV’s in the parking lot a week ahead of time in order to get in line. It’s insane.

Also, we do pre-pay for doctors visits. Isn’t that what insurance is?

Such poor critical thing skills. I take it you did not attend an elite preschool

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

A close, life-long friend is getting married in December.  The wedding is going to be at a partial indoor/partial outdoor venue in a small Texas town, with several hundred guests invited.  I'm a groomsman, along with several other very close, life-long friends.  The bride and groom have several days of activities planned leading up to the wedding, with room-blocks booked at hotels and shuttles taking everyone from place to place.  I will be shocked if anyone has a mask on.
Out of the two-dozen or so people I know who are part of the wedding, I've not heard anyone raise any concerns.  My wife and I are planning on telling the bride and groom that we do not feel comfortable attending.  While we are all still (relatively) young, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills observing how nonchalant everyone else is being about going to a wedding, with zero alterations to account for the fact that the state, country, and planet are in the middle of a global pandemic.  I suppose there is a theoretical chance a really effective treatment could be announced between now and then, but with vaccines looking unlikely until early 2021, it seems probable that COVID will still be spreading in December.
I love these friends dearly and do not want to hurt them.  But I also don't think it is responsible to pretend like the world in December 2020 will be the same as it was in December 2019.  I guess I'm looking for affirmation that I'm not unreasonable for hesitating about attending?  

DayS? How long are you supposed to be there for this wedding?? I mean 3 days is the max: travel/grooms dinner, wedding day and then go home. What else is planned?

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

What are the metrics used to rank pre-schools?

[kevwun 15653]

US News and World Report.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

55 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Wow, now that is a racket. I assume that isn't a prepayment/deposit. Would you like to hold your spot for a visit to the doctor? I'm taking reservations for a fee now.

Ever heard of concierge service at the doctor?

[Trey3216 15325]

51 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What are the metrics used to rank pre-schools?

The Karen Hourly Post 

[ZB'Tejas 593]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Wow, now that is a racket. I assume that isn't a prepayment/deposit. Would you like to hold your spot for a visit to the doctor? I'm taking reservations for a fee now.

Ours has a waitlist so the only way to hold a spot is to just pay the full tuition but just don't send them

[EE2B 1561]

Ours has a waitlist so the only way to hold a spot is to just pay the full tuition but just don't send them

Yup. The struggle is real.

[GreenspointTexas 9567]

Positivity rate back up over 25% now for Texas. Yikes

[kevwun 15653]

I think there may be fuckery going on with testing.  The number of tests done per day is dropping like a rock.

Edited August 13, 2020 by kevwun

[Hanrahan 1306]

22 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think there may be fuckery going on with testing.  The number of tests done per day is dropping like a rock.

Is there some type of explanation for this?  There should be more testing with record deaths and schools about to open up.

[Newdoc 3433]

2 hours ago, EE2B said:

Also, we do pre-pay for doctors visits. Isn’t that what insurance is?

No. You pay into a risk pool and your insurance pays your doctor well after the fact. Usually 30-90 days after.

[kevwun 15653]

I have a theory about the testing, but it's not for this thread.  The number of tests done per day is almost back down the the same level it was at in May.  The number of new cases per day are still well above what they were in May and the positivity rate is increasing, so the virus is still spreading through the population more than it was.  So that's not an explanation for doing fewer tests.  Best case is that there is a shortage of tests available, but I have heard nothing that supports that.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by kevwun

[dcbc 14410]

11 hours ago, Js1 said:

@Armybrat got remarried? 

Just thought for a second about what it would be like to be Armybrat's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great nephew.

[bschoolprof 6232]

33 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I have a theory about the testing, but it's not for this thread.  The number of tests done per day is almost back down the the same level it was at in May.  The number of new cases per day are still well above what they were in May and the positivity rate is increasing, so the virus is still spreading through the population more than it was.  So that's not an explanation for doing fewer tests.  Best case is that there is a shortage of tests available, but I have heard nothing that supports that.

 

I think part of it might be a reporting issue with negative tests.  Take a look at tests and positivity for tests actually administered by the med center (first pic) vs those "reported" for the whole Houston area, across all labs (2nd pic).  Which one looks like it gives an accurate depiction of viral spread that corresponds with the daily hospitalization data (3rd pic)?

Notice in the 2nd pic, the positivity rate is strongly inversely related to the number of tests being "reported" (which is probably a subset of those being conducted).  It's a denominator issue. That shouldn't happen in random snapshots of the population.  I think this is (probably inadvertent) fuckery going on with how/when negative tests get reported across all labs (public and private).  

[babysdaddy 2718]

32 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I have a theory about the testing, but it's not for this thread.  The number of tests done per day is almost back down the the same level it was at in May.  The number of new cases per day are still well above what they were in May and the positivity rate is increasing, so the virus is still spreading through the population more than it was.  So that's not an explanation for doing fewer tests.  Best case is that there is a shortage of tests available, but I have heard nothing that supports that.

 

I thought that however I see daily tweets from Clay Jenkins telling people there are no lines at testing sites.  Anecdotally it seems people are not going to get tested, not that there is a shortage. 

[Bevo 13527]

3 hours ago, EE2B said:

It’s definitely not ideal, but it’s the best preschool anywhere around here. The last time they held registration, people parked RV’s in the parking lot a week ahead of time in order to get in line. It’s insane.

Also, we do pre-pay for doctors visits. Isn’t that what insurance is?

No, I don't get a penny of what you pay to your insurance company. Insurance just provides me with free marketing in exchange for a highly discounted fee schedule. But, I was just playing around anyway.

[Chewbacca 7730]

I think there may be fuckery going on with testing.  The number of tests done per day is dropping like a rock.

There has to be. How can you get positivity so high?

[Message Board User 12389]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

I think there may be fuckery going on with testing.  The number of tests done per day is dropping like a rock.

There has to be. How can you get positivity so high?

Especially when hospitalizations are decreasing.

[atomheartbevo 89449]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

I have a theory about the testing, but it's not for this thread.  The number of tests done per day is almost back down the the same level it was at in May.  The number of new cases per day are still well above what they were in May and the positivity rate is increasing, so the virus is still spreading through the population more than it was.  So that's not an explanation for doing fewer tests.  Best case is that there is a shortage of tests available, but I have heard nothing that supports that.

If you can't test as many, then not as many students can test positive, and if students aren't testing positive, you can't slow down the school openings!

It is odd though, no tinfoil.  Lot of weird shit happening.

[Skipper 6103]

15 hours ago, Stannis said:

A close, life-long friend is getting married in December.  The wedding is going to be at a partial indoor/partial outdoor venue in a small Texas town, with several hundred guests invited.  I'm a groomsman, along with several other very close, life-long friends.  The bride and groom have several days of activities planned leading up to the wedding, with room-blocks booked at hotels and shuttles taking everyone from place to place.  I will be shocked if anyone has a mask on.

Out of the two-dozen or so people I know who are part of the wedding, I've not heard anyone raise any concerns.  My wife and I are planning on telling the bride and groom that we do not feel comfortable attending.  While we are all still (relatively) young, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills observing how nonchalant everyone else is being about going to a wedding, with zero alterations to account for the fact that the state, country, and planet are in the middle of a global pandemic.  I suppose there is a theoretical chance a really effective treatment could be announced between now and then, but with vaccines looking unlikely until early 2021, it seems probable that COVID will still be spreading in December.

I love these friends dearly and do not want to hurt them.  But I also don't think it is responsible to pretend like the world in December 2020 will be the same as it was in December 2019.  I guess I'm looking for affirmation that I'm not unreasonable for hesitating about attending?  

Posted about it earlier but wife was a brides maid in a family wedding that was supposed to be a 100+ attendees.  Less than 50% showed up (most just no showed).  This was when things were peaking in Texas in early July.   I didn't attend.  Wedding was outside and reception was indoors and it was a big enough room she was able to stay pretty distanced given the numerous no shows.  Luckily to our knowledge nobody got sick but it was still a fucking stupid idea (not that I would have ever expected anything different from this side of her family...)