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Apple TV+ Doing Isaac Asimov’s Foundation.

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Js1

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2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Pretty excited about this and I have no real idea what it's even about.

I went into it the same way. Holy crap I’m a fan. It’s visually stunning, story sucked me right in and some fascinating world building.  

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19 hours ago, Js1 said:

I went into it the same way. Holy crap I’m a fan. It’s visually stunning, story sucked me right in and some fascinating world building.  

Without getting into book nerd stuff, they are doing some major world building and backstory development that maybe wasn't in the original book/short stories, and spreading things out in this series.  The original short-stories were interrelated, but they are expanding some things.

Which is good for the non-readers I think, and having read the books, it's probably for the best.  As others have said, the original book was really a bunch of short-stories put together, but his later novels were written from start-to-finish as novels.    This feels like if he had written the original novel as a novel, rather than it being a collection of short stories.

I can see some diehards being angsty, but I don't think this series could have been sold any other way.  Also, it's better for the non-book readers I think.

 

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Liquor and Poker

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This is a good show so far-it seems to be trying for that Westworld S1 “we’re not telling you everything” vibe.  I was just getting ready to kill AppleTV because I don’t like Ted Lasso and everything else on the service looks like something Prime passed on. But this has me interested enough to go another month. 
 

Had someone rant to me that it has nothing to do with the book(s?), and maybe that’s true, but I never read them so I don’t care. 

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6 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Had someone rant to me that it has nothing to do with the book(s?), and maybe that’s true, but I never read them so I don’t care. 

As mentioned, the original Foundation novel was a collection of interrelated short stories originally published in pulp sci-fi magazines starting in the 1940s.  Because they were short stories, a lot of characters/events had little backstory.  His later novels were written as novels, so they are more cohesive.  The TV people are basically filling in gaps and providing continuity.  Some genders and skin colors have been swapped, but given that those characters had very little backstory (Asimov was trying to tell self-contained stories with those short stories and skimped in a lot of areas), there's a lot of butthurt over nothing.

Warning, if you walk into one of the subreddits dedicated to Asimov/Foundation, it's basically:

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Scary Stranger

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This is a good show so far-it seems to be trying for that Westworld S1 “we’re not telling you everything” vibe.  I was just getting ready to kill AppleTV because I don’t like Ted Lasso and everything else on the service looks like something Prime passed on. But this has me interested enough to go another month. 
 
Had someone rant to me that it has nothing to do with the book(s?), and maybe that’s true, but I never read them so I don’t care. 

You don’t like Ted Lasso? Are you a soulless monster?
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1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

It looks incredible (like most Apple shows) but I feel like I’m missing about 300 pages of context. The set piece in episode one was spectacular.

I wouldn't worry about it - the show gives you the general gist of what's happening - the Empire is predicted to die, and Seldon and Co. are trying to make the dark times shorter and get humanity back on its feet quicker after the fall.  Think of the fall of the Roman Empire.

I'm re-reading the original book, and Asimov could skimp on details when writing, because they were short stories for magazines.

 

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bmbmd

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Episode I was faithful, more or less to the story line. (Except for the gender mixup regarding Gael and Salvor). Episode II, though-what the fuck was that?  This future history was brilliantly written by Asimov and then faithfully read by generations of readers.  It is as fresh and compelling in 2021 as it was in the seventies when I first read it.  No need to drift off like this.  
 

(PS-my Uncle Allen,  now 94, was in a post-grad discussion group proctored by the visiting Dr. Asimov at Berkeley. CSB)

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32 minutes ago, bmbmd said:

Episode I was faithful, more or less to the story line. (Except for the gender mixup regarding Gael and Salvor). Episode II, though-what the fuck was that?  This future history was brilliantly written by Asimov and then faithfully read by generations of readers.  It is as fresh and compelling in 2021 as it was in the seventies when I first read it.  No need to drift off like this.  

Spoiler

It seemed to me that Seldon felt like he shouldn't be there among the Foundation people (he even mentions that he did not predict that he would be on the ship, and clearly thought he would be executed on Trantor), felt like they were drifting/not enthusiastic, and that his martyrdom would push them a lot harder.

We'll see in the next episode.

Seldon was not directly in the original novel very much anyways, so this gets him out of the way and gets us focused on the Foundation instead of him.

 

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Buzzrock

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I wouldn't worry about it - the show gives you the general gist of what's happening - the Empire is predicted to die, and Seldon and Co. are trying to make the dark times shorter and get humanity back on its feet quicker after the fall.  Think of the fall of the Roman Empire.
I'm re-reading the original book, and Asimov could skimp on details when writing, because they were short stories for magazines.
 

I assume some new shit will come to light because the main storyline (building a big space Wikipedia) is kind of boring. And it doesn’t make sense that a super advanced civilization would have to leave some knowledge out (base 10 vs base 12 or what have you).
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wild_turkey

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I’m really enjoying this so far and hoping it builds momentum. I already have tons of questions.

How do they have gravity on their interstellar space ship? It would seem the only way is centrifugal force but they don’t appear to be rotating.

When they originally discussed the duration of travel in episode 1, Gaal estimated ~857 days. Then in episode 2, Raych said they have 54 months (1,620 days) remaining on their journey. Why did it double in length?

And obviously I have no idea what to make of the last 5 minutes of episode 2. Can’t wait for the next one.

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Js1

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6 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

I’m really enjoying this so far and hoping it builds momentum. I already have tons of questions.

How do they have gravity on their interstellar space ship? It would seem the only way is centrifugal force but they don’t appear to be rotating.

When they originally discussed the duration of travel in episode 1, Gaal estimated ~857 days. Then in episode 2, Raych said they have 54 months (1,620 days) remaining on their journey. Why did it double in length?

And obviously I have no idea what to make of the last 5 minutes of episode 2. Can’t wait for the next one.

I think she was supposed to say 1,857 days. Or that he got the numbers are the 1 wrong 

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remoh

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This show delivers. binged all 3 episodes so far, did not disappoint. I guess except for the genetic dynasty and the android, none of the other actors will be long lived as they need to span a 1000 years for the show?

 

not sure wtf happened to gaal. Is she pressumed dead?
 

Production costs seem very high. I am always concerned about that. Since it is sci-fi, it wont get the eyeballs and will get shit canned before finishing out the story. 

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Js1

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18 minutes ago, remoh said:

This show delivers. binged all 3 episodes so far, did not disappoint. I guess except for the genetic dynasty and the android, none of the other actors will be long lived as they need to span a 1000 years for the show?

 

not sure wtf happened to gaal. Is she pressumed dead?
 

Production costs seem very high. I am always concerned about that. Since it is sci-fi, it wont get the eyeballs and will get shit canned before finishing out the story. 

Apple prints money and doesn’t overextend themselves with crap like Netflix does. The 2 services I’m not concerned about shit canning sci-fi early bc of money are Apple and Amazon 

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atomheartbevo

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Apple prints money and doesn’t overextend themselves with crap like Netflix does. The 2 services I’m not concerned about shit canning sci-fi early bc of money are Apple and Amazon 

They both want those high-end markets, and in Amazon's case, Bezos loves sci-fi stuff (I believe he was the one driving the pickup of The Expanse).

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remoh

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Those companies are big because they make good decisions. If this show doesnt get eyeballs, I’d be worried. 
 

expanse got cut from plan of 9 seasons to only 6 is proof enough in amazon’s case. 
 

Jury is still out on apple. But no way would they burn 10m plus an episode if this is not a ratings hit. 
 

with that said, i am optismistic it goes on for a while. 

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Buzzrock

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They did it again, they said they can keep the water clock or the sundial technology but not both. That makes no sense to me.

This episode jumped a couple of decades and kind of felt like a connector episode. Now that there is an enemy things might pick up. Still in.

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atomheartbevo

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Renewed for season 2.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/10/07/apple-tv-greenlights-foundation-season-two

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"[W]ith season two, our audience will get to visit more of Asimov's indelible characters and worlds, including Hober Mallow, General Bel Riose, and all the Outer Suns," Goyer said in a press release. "I'm thrilled that a whole new generation of fans are reading Asimov's brilliant masterwork. We're playing the long game with Foundation' and I'm grateful to my partners at Apple and Skydance for entrusting me with this epic. Buckle up. We're about to fold some serious space."

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remoh

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On 10/7/2021 at 5:35 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Renewed for season 2.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/10/07/apple-tv-greenlights-foundation-season-two

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"[W]ith season two, our audience will get to visit more of Asimov's indelible characters and worlds, including Hober Mallow, General Bel Riose, and all the Outer Suns," Goyer said in a press release. "I'm thrilled that a whole new generation of fans are reading Asimov's brilliant masterwork. We're playing the long game with Foundation' and I'm grateful to my partners at Apple and Skydance for entrusting me with this epic. Buckle up. We're about to fold some serious space."

Heart Attack Close Call GIF by reactionseditor

Niiiiiice. 
 

 

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CooterBrown

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I have no idea what’s going on, but I’m enjoying the show. 

A lot of confusion could’ve been fixed with a flash card between episode 2 & 3 that said “35 years later”. With the 3 emperors never changing even though the “characters” have aged into their next represented age, it took me a bit to figure out that the elderly parents were the young couple from the first episode and the Warden was the unborn baby.
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NotActuallyALonghorn

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A little over halfway through the second episode right now. The production value is phenomenal. The direction sucks. Hear me out, most people on this threads are science fiction nerds like me who are willing to sit through a boring season opener because they have hope that it is setting up something epic. Most people who are not science fiction nerds are not.

I am intrigued,  but I could easily turn this episode off right now and go to sleep.

We are in the middle of a renaissance of science fiction and fantasy right now. It seems like Apple could have figured out how to make this more palatable to the masses. I doubt this show obtains the success that is commiserate with the money they are spending on it. But I hope they still continue to fund it.

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remoh

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2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

 

We are in the middle of a renaissance of science fiction and fantasy right now. 

 [Limiting scope to Sci-fi] We are? Being super honest here (no asshole) - why do you feel that way?
 

When a show like The Expanse cant make it - even with Amazon $$$ - I am a bit depressed. I am always worried about expensive sci-fi.  
 

Maybe you mean renaissance some other way? But sci-fi doesnt appeal to the masses (unless you talk about superhero movies, which is more fantasy than sci-fi). 

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rage-a-holic

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12 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

A little over halfway through the second episode right now. The production value is phenomenal. The direction sucks. Hear me out, most people on this threads are science fiction nerds like me who are willing to sit through a boring season opener because they have hope that it is setting up something epic. Most people who are not science fiction nerds are not.

I am intrigued,  but I could easily turn this episode off right now and go to sleep.

We are in the middle of a renaissance of science fiction and fantasy right now. It seems like Apple could have figured out how to make this more palatable to the masses. I doubt this show obtains the success that is commiserate with the money they are spending on it. But I hope they still continue to fund it.

It is very slow. My girlfriend tuned out after the middle of the 2nd episode. But honestly, the books were pretty slow too. It's probably the only famous "epic" sci-fi series I never bothered to read more than once.

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Js1

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10 hours ago, remoh said:

 [Limiting scope to Sci-fi] We are? Being super honest here (no asshole) - why do you feel that way?
 

When a show like The Expanse cant make it - even with Amazon $$$ - I am a bit depressed. I am always worried about expensive sci-fi.  
 

Maybe you mean renaissance some other way? But sci-fi doesnt appeal to the masses (unless you talk about superhero movies, which is more fantasy than sci-fi). 

Yeah I wish we were in a renaissance for science fiction.  We have things like Foundation, SW/ST shows, The Orville, a BSG reboot, but fantasy is getting all the love (DC/MCU, The Witcher, Wheel of Time, Shadow and Bone, new GOT series, new LOTR series) 

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atomheartbevo

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11 hours ago, remoh said:

Maybe you mean renaissance some other way? But sci-fi doesnt appeal to the masses

We have four ongoing Star Trek series, we have like 7 or 8 Star Wars series in the works, we have the Orville, HBO Max has a couple of big sci-fi shows in production (one a prequel or spinoff of Dune), Hulu has stuff ongoing or in production, one of Netflix's biggest shows is Stranger Things, and it feels like we can't go a few weeks without a new sci-fi movie popping up on Netflix.  And I'm leaving out a lot.

You can make the argument that this is a renaissance.

But it shouldn't be all that surprising - a lot of Hollywood is being driven by 40-somethings and 50-somethings and they all came of age when sci-fi films took off in the 70s and 80s (and not just Star Wars).

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Jiggy-Z

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2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Yeah I wish we were in a renaissance for science fiction.  We have things like Foundation, SW/ST shows, The Orville, a BSG reboot, but fantasy is getting all the love (DC/MCU, The Witcher, Wheel of Time, Shadow and Bone, new GOT series, new LOTR series) 

Most science fiction(and fantasy) ends up looking cheap because it is generally so dependent on special effects and has to take some shortcuts on the day to day lives of the characters and their interactions in their built world and if you don't get it right it looks like it was done on a budget.

One way to get over that is to get a big star or two.  Star Wars had Alec Guinness, Alien had a whole cast.

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4 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Most science fiction(and fantasy) ends up looking cheap because it is generally so dependent on special effects and has to take some shortcuts on the day to day lives of the characters and their interactions in their built world and if you don't get it right it looks like it was done on a budget.

BSG (the 2004 reboot) pulled it off.  Some amazing special effects for the early 2000s, but the FX people and the directors/editors/producers threaded the needle perfectly on knowing the limitations, combined with relying on an amazingly solid cast and just giving them plenty of room to breathe.

4 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

One way to get over that is to get a big star or two.  Star Wars had Alec Guinness, Alien had a whole cast.

Dude, Mark Hammill was in the Texas Wheelers TV show with Jack Elam and Gary Busey back in '74.

Texas_Wheelers_cast.JPG

 

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wild_turkey

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It started a little slow for me but just finished episode 5 and it’s pulled me in more.

I think a hard part for me is that each episode doesn’t necessarily show every story or timeline. I sort of understand why that’s happening from a storytelling perspective, but as a viewer unfamiliar with the worlds and characters, it makes it a little harder to follow in the early stages and to become invested.

After episode 5, I feel like we are finally getting momentum in a couple of stories.

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Js1

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48 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

It started a little slow for me but just finished episode 5 and it’s pulled me in more.

I think a hard part for me is that each episode doesn’t necessarily show every story or timeline. I sort of understand why that’s happening from a storytelling perspective, but as a viewer unfamiliar with the worlds and characters, it makes it a little harder to follow in the early stages and to become invested.

After episode 5, I feel like we are finally getting momentum in a couple of stories.

I’m just liking the Emperors storyline better than the other 2. So far. 

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