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Apple TV+ Doing Isaac Asimov’s Foundation.

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Chips O'Toole

Chips O'Toole 1326

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Yeah, the empire storyline is real driving the bus at this point which is interesting considering there was little about Cleon and Trantor throughout most of the original trilogy. Although it's been so long I may have just completely forgotten that part. I remember there being more empire stuff in the prequel books. 

It's a really interesting series, I just wish the acting was a little more consistent.  There are some terrific performances and then there are some really weak ones. Any scene with Salvor takes me completely out of the world and into a SciFi channel quality production. 

I may have been high or something, but was it super strange that they brought Hari to life and then drowned him an episode later?  Like what for?  It feels like they needed him in scenes just to explain a bunch of stuff and then they got rid of him because he was only needed for exposition between waterworld and mentalic cult world.

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Js1

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12 minutes ago, seven said:

Yeah, salvor sucks 

Oh yeah, her and Gaal is the weakest part of the story right now 

1. Empire/Demerzel/Cloud Dominion

2. Constant/Hober Mallow

 

 

3. Gaal and Salvor

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seven

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9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Somehow I missed that this existed until I saw an ad on Apple yesterday. I don’t want to read the thread in case of spoilers (haven’t read the book but have read a lot of the oft cited similar works).

Is it worth me diving in and catching up? I never know with Apple shows.

I think so. First season has some slow parts (and bad actors) but the second is going in a good direction. 

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Js1

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16 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Somehow I missed that this existed until I saw an ad on Apple yesterday. I don’t want to read the thread in case of spoilers (haven’t read the book but have read a lot of the oft cited similar works).

Is it worth me diving in and catching up? I never know with Apple shows.

Yes. It’s visually stunning. Like said, first is a bit of a slog and it picks up fast in season 2

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atomheartbevo

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Our dishwasher had a piece break/wear out earlier last week, so while waiting on the part to show up so I can fix it, I volunteered to do dishes in the evening the past few nights, and just set my iPad up and watch whatever.

Decided for some reason to rewatch season 1 while doing the dishes and then would watch another episode or two after, and it's better than I felt it originally was. I think pseudo-binging it (2-3 episodes a night), it just flows a helluva lot better.  Of course, having watched the first season once already through, I was familiar with everybody and the time jumps, etc., but I think it lends itself better to binging, and there was definitely a sense a few times this week where I had to watch one more episode.

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On 11/19/2021 at 11:08 AM, RamjetFDO said:

 Demerzel was a "male" robot, but I think having this character as a female with that layer of (artificial robot) empathy really works better.  

It does work better, but reading around last night, it turns out that they constructed that character the way they did, because Apple did not have the rights to certain characters and had to be very careful what they said/used and what books they could draw upon - Fox had the rights, so they made Demerzel a female (agree with you that it works better in the empathy department). 

BUT, one of the younger Murdochs running Fox is a huge fan of the series and has given Goyer/Apple permission 

Spoiler

to say Eto Demerzel is R. Daneel Olivaw, and they will be delving into the laws of robotics, and there is already talk about a prequel spinoff of the Foundation series that delves into the Robot Wars. They would not necessarily retcon the I, Robot film into the Foundation series, but would instead do the Robot Wars.

(I'm spoilering this for those who haven't caught up when reading this now or in the future or whatever)

 

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Goyer posted a wall of text in reddit last month.  Spoilers like crazy for S3/S4.

Spoiler

And a couple of quick-fire answers to some questions people have already been posting, just to kick things off…

In 203, why does Hari’s digital ghost cast a shadows on the sands of Oona’s world, but not footprints? Some people in the threads have already correctly answered this. But we figured if it were projecting a 3-D, opaque image, it would also be sophisticated enough to simulate shadows.

That said, we tried an early version of some of the shots where Hari had no footprints AND no shadows and the effect was just weird to the eye. It looked like Hari was floating atop the sand and not really “there”. It just seemed off. So we went with this version.

Where did all the F-bombs suddenly come from? For S1 Apple looked at the material we’d written and felt with very little editing we could achieve a TV-14 rating – and thus, potentially, reach the widest possible audience. I was unsure about this as I felt the themes of the show were pretty mature – but I agreed to do it under the condition that S2 could be properly TV-MA. Once the data came in from viewership, turned out the median age of the viewers was 35 – so our audience skewed adult (which was my gut). So Apple kept their word and allowed me to make S2 TV-MA (which reflected some of the language and other, more sexual and/or adult themes). And yes, I agree it’s rather silly that a scene with two consenting adults having intercourse is considered more graphic than protracted sequences of violence.

In terms of the profanity itself, I personally tend to not like made-up curses like “frak”. Even though I love Battlestar Galactica, they always take me out of the story. So we decided to make the language in our show more or less like today – accessible, but with the odd, antiquated word thrown in. In truth, the language they are speaking probably isn’t even English anymore – 25,000 years removed from today – but rather, some kind of interlac or something we couldn’t even understand. It’s suspension of disbelief.

Regarding the use of religion to spread Foundation’s reach – that idea pretty much comes directly from Asimov himself. Yes, it’s a cynical and manipulative notion. But then, Asimov was fairly cynical about its misuse himself.

Here are some choice quotes from Asimov regarding religion:

“Science is complex and chilling. The mathematical language of science is understood by very few. The vistas it presents are scary-an enormous universe ruled by chance and impersonal rules, empty and uncaring, ungraspable and vertiginous. How comfortable to turn instead to a small world, only a few thousand years old, and under God's personal; and immediate care; a world in which you are His peculiar concern.”

“When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together.”

Yes, the stuff Bel was mining is called “opalesk”. And yes, we will explore that further. Keen eye there.

Regarding this season moving too fast to explore existential questions – don’t worry. There will be plenty of that this season. We made a calculated decision to fire Season 2 out of a cannon and then catch our breath for a bit – and based on the reaction and uptick in viewership, I would say that that calculation has paid off handsomely.

Will we do anything more with tying Demerzel into the I Robot laws? Yes, for sure. Keep watching this season. We’ve even discussed doing a spin-off mini-series that specifically delves into our version of “The Robot Wars”. No idea if we’ll ever get there or if Apple or the audience have the appetite for it. Depends on S2 reception and beyond. Maybe we do that – or maybe we try to incorporate that storyline within one of the seasonal arcs.

Was Cleon the 1st changed in the Principium? Yes. We upgraded the prosthetic and also slightly tweaked the costume – both for aesthetic choices. But my contention is that that is still the same, preserved body of Cleon the 1st. Yes, Day 13 smashed open the glass, but I believe Demerzel’s programming would have compelled her to intervene and stop Day from completely destroying the Principium (one way or another). Would she have had to resort to killing that Day? Possibly, We may never know!

Regarding Asimov’s own views on his early Foundation stories, he provides an interesting “behind-the-scenes” account of what led to him eventually writing two sequels (and prequels) to the original trilogy. (A version of this was recently told to me by Robyn Asimov herself when we finally met in-person last month.)

Nearly four months passed while I took care of a vast number of things I had to do, but about the end of May, I picked up my own copy of the Foundation Trilogy and began reading. I had to. For one thing, I hadn’t read the Trilogy in thirty years and while I remembered the general plot, I did not remember the details. Besides, before beginning a new foundation novel I had to immerse myself in the style and atmosphere of the series. I read it with mounting uneasiness. I kept waiting for something to happen, and nothing ever did. All three volumes, all the nearly quarter of a million words, consisted of thoughts and conversations. No action. No physical suspense.

How much time has passed since Season 1? What does it mean for this Day and Demrezel to be involved, when last season we saw her raise him?

I believe it has been 138 years (has to check his notes – but reasonably sure it’s mentioned in V.O. and certainly in a chyron at the end of episode 110).

Why is Day entertaining a possible marriage with Sareth, and why did they select Cloud Dominion as the alliance sector from which to pull the new princess? Can Demrezel's programming accept this?

Most of this will be answered in subsequent episodes. Dominion was a once independent kingdom (i.e. outside of Empire). It is large and still have a lot of internal allegiance. Sareth is popular – and as the youngest and potentially the most naïve, Day felt she would be easy to manipulate.

How much genetic drift can happen in 150 years? Does the marriage proposal mean that the Genetic Dynasty is over?

If the marriage happens, yes. It would be over. In terms of genetic drift, YMMV. But enough that it’s a problem! And it’s starting to become a PR problem.

How did the Foundation grow into a religious group?

The basis of barbarized societies perceiving the Foundation’s technicians as magicians was in Asimov’s own writing. Comes up in the 3rd story, “The Mayors” and then again in “The Merchant Princes” and was called the Church of Science. We’ve changed it to the Church of the Galactic Spirit.

What happened between Bel Riose and Brother Day before we see them in this previous episode?

He disobeyed an order during a battle the took place in the Lemul Cluster – I believe we got the name from Asimov’s writings, but the actual placement escapes me. I doube we’ll ever tell that specific story, though.

Is more emotion actually seeping through Demrezel this season... or is Demrezel showing more emotion at Day's direction?

Good question. My contention is that it’s both.

What are the implications of a decentralized consciousness?

Well, we’ll begin to dip our toes into this a tiny bit in S2 (pay attention to some of the dialogue in episode 209). And a bit more in S3. And a LOT more in S4, should we ever get there. Suffice it to say, we dropped that comment in there for a reason. Definite smoking gun. Not exactly a Sibyl system, though.

 

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Js1

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7 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Same.  I had to rewind a couple times to see what happened. This season was great. I really like this show 

Riose explained it though. I did think it was going to show up again but that Hober would do it. I did not foresee them being in cahoots

Kind of bummed both those characters are dead but they had a great going out scene. Unlike Salvor. Don’t care that much 

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Smax

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Damn that was like the red wedding episode of this series, so many prominent character deaths though dawn/day/dusk just come back but still, What kind of power can empire project now that it looks like they lost their entire fleet.

Great season 

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atomheartbevo

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https://www.apple.com/tv-pr/news/2023/12/apple-tv-renews-global-hit-epic-sci-fi-saga-foundation-for-season-three/

Following its global hit second season, which has been hailed as “the gold standard for all science fiction programming,” Apple TV+ today announced that its epic saga “Foundation” has been renewed for season three. Hailing from storyteller David S. Goyer, produced by Skydance Television, and starring Lee Pace and Jared Harris, the third season of “Foundation” will expand the acclaimed, sweeping television adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s award-winning stories.

“I’m thrilled Apple has given us the opportunity to continue chronicling Asimov’s pioneering galactic saga. This time, the stakes for Foundation and Empire are even higher as the Mule takes center stage, along with fan-favorites Bayta, Toran, Ebling and Magnifico Giganticus,” said showrunner and executive producer David S. Goyer.

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