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Thunder vs Jazz

Machinator

By Machinator
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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Posted
1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Hilarious that anyone can watch this mess and blame WB.  If George and Melo are average they win this game.  They both sucked.  Shocking. 

Because he doesn't make anyone around him better. How many more players have to leave and become better players else where?

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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5 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Because he doesn't make anyone around him better. How many more players have to leave and become better players else where?

Playoff P is a max fucking player.  His bitch ass shouldn’t need someone to make him better.  Shoot 40% and they win the god damn game.  I won’t even get into Melo.  That’s just retarded on all accounts.  

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13032

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1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Playoff P is a max fucking player.  His bitch ass shouldn’t need someone to make him better.  Shoot 40% and they win the god damn game.  I won’t even get into Melo.  That’s just retarded on all accounts.  

RW won’t ever win a title but this is also accurate. At some point PG13 has to be able to get it done. 2/16 in a decisive playoff game is on PG not RW

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6436

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13 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Hilarious that anyone can watch this mess and blame WB.  If George and Melo are average they win this game.  They both sucked.  Shocking. 

tonight wasn't on him (although a PG taking 43 shots with a 5-5 asst/turnover ratio isn't ideal), but he was absolutely awful in the first 4 games of the series that lead to them being in the 3-1 hole.  

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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18 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Well when one player takes 46% of the team's attempts, it's going to be hard for anyone else to score.

Adams isn’t volume shooter.  Only George and Melo are - and they were much worse then WB %wise tonight.  Did you watch the game?  WB started playing hero ball after it was obvious George was useless.  And Melo makes max money but let’s clown on WB.  Lol.  

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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8 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

tonight wasn't on him (although a PG taking 43 shots with a 5-5 asst/turnover ratio isn't ideal), but he was absolutely awful in the first 4 games of the series that lead to them being in the 3-1 hole.  

Yeah that’s fair.  He deserves criticism but it’s just amazing how shitty George and Melo were overall.  

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Playoff P is a max fucking player.  His bitch ass shouldn’t need someone to make him better.  Shoot 40% and they win the god damn game.  I won’t even get into Melo.  That’s just retarded on all accounts.  

Melo's fucking terrible now..... a below average player who demands the ball, stops it and makes 28 million.

Westbrook is a force of nature but as described by Thunder homer, Royce Young, he's his own worst enemy.  He'll never win a championship as a team's best player, IMO.  He may want to win more than anyone on his team, he simply has no fucking clue how to do so....

PG13 is a good player.  I don't want that getting lost, but he's sort of a fraud.  He's not a franchise player in the league yet folks always mention him as such..... He has a history of coming up small in big spots.  I still think you can win with him as your #2 (if the #1 is Lebron, KD, or Davis), but more apt to be a #3 guy..... He disappears too much and he's an inefficient jump shooter -- which means he'll have some terrible stretches.

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Playoff P is a max fucking player.  His bitch ass shouldn’t need someone to make him better.  Shoot 40% and they win the god damn game.  I won’t even get into Melo.  That’s just retarded on all accounts.  

64-161, 15-42, 33-40

49-120, 19-52, 31-36

Neither played well at all. Give the Jazz credit, they are the best defensive team in the NBA for a reason. George will leave, and Westbrook can enjoy losing in the 1st round again. Rinse and repeat until Westbrook changes.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13032

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There is plenty of blame for RW for his shot selection and his play overall. There is no blame for RW for how PG and Melo played. They are both max players. They should both be able to compete at a high level in the playoffs. PG remains the Aquaman of NBA “stars” and Melo is just worthless

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Melo's fucking terrible now..... a below average player who demands the ball, stops it and makes 28 million.

Westbrook is a force of nature but as described by Thunder homer, Royce Young, he's his own worst enemy.  He'll never win a championship as a team's best player, IMO.  He may want to win more than anyone on his team, he simply has no fucking clue how to do so....

PG13 is a good player.  I don't want that getting lost, but he's sort of a fraud.  He's not a franchise player in the league yet folks always mention him as such..... He has a history of coming up small in big spots.  I still think you can win with him as your #2 (if the #1 is Lebron, KD, or Davis), but more apt to be a #3 guy..... He disappears too much and he's an inefficient jump shooter -- which means he'll have some terrible stretches.

I know I’m on a Texas site but in today’s NBA you aren’t winning dick with KD as your 1 if PG is your 2.  

Im a huge Pelicans and Jazz fan right now. Hope they give the ‘super teams’ hell. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I know I’m on a Texas site but in today’s NBA you aren’t winning dick with KD as your 1 if PG is your 2.  

Im a huge Pelicans and Jazz fan right now. Hope they give the ‘super teams’ hell. 

KD with PG as his beta and some solid role players are pretty easy conference champion in the East..... Remember, the championship this season is probably the WCF..... as usual.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Depends on how you define #1, which in turn will inform on how you define #2.  On a true contender, I think PG is much more suited #3 guy.  He's a weak #2.

Which is why it's going to be hilarious watching the Lakers hitch their wagon to him with a max deal.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

KD with PG as his beta and some solid role players are pretty easy conference champion in the East..... Remember, the championship this season is probably the WCF..... as usual.

I don’t think they’d just roll over Philly.  But what I was getting at is they would’nt touch Houston or GS. 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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2 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i think paul george would be an ideal fit on the rockets (just swap him for anderson -- hey, the contract math works). 

you could argue whether he or paul is the #2 though.  it'd probably be 2a and 2b.

Houston is bringing it home this year.  Just keep this group together.  

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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1 minute ago, BigOrange1 said:

i think paul george would be an ideal fit on the rockets (just swap him for anderson -- hey, the contract math works). 

you could argue whether he or paul is the #2 though.  it'd probably be 2a and 2b.

Ha.... I was thinking of using CP3 as an elite #2.  PG13 could only dream of being as good as CP3.... He's nowhere near as good, even when you consider defense and CP3's advanced age, especially in MDA's system.  Maybe in 2 years he would be, but now, he's a lot better.  Again, PG13 is pretty overrated.... A really good player, but not an elite one.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don’t think they’d just roll over Philly.  But what I was getting at is they would’nt touch Houston or GS. 

Well, sort of depends on how you construct the teams.  Take KD off the Warriors and put him and PG13 with some good role players and they would give each team a run.  Especially GSW who has a gimpy Curry, an aging before you eyes Iggy, and down year Draymond.  It really would depend on role players and if you could match Green's defense.  Houston is a totally different animal.  Not saying they'd beat them but dependent on supporting players, it could be a good series.  Same with Lebron or Anthony Davis (but probably less so b/c of experience).  Any other player (like Kyrie, Greek, etc), I think they're out in the 2nd round in the West....

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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18 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Paul George is a very good #2. Westbrook is just not great as a #1.

If you had a roster of Ibaka/ Harden/ Durant & Westbrook, that might work, but of course the Thunder had to Oklahoma City up their own roster...

If the Thunder had an actual point guard that allows Russ to freely cut to the basket while evenly distributing to PG & a rested Melo (& an actual coach) it can work too... 

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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20 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

If you had a roster of Ibaka/ Harden/ Durant & Westbrook, that might work, but of course the Thunder had to Oklahoma City up their own roster...

If the Thunder had an actual point guard that allows Russ to freely cut to the basket while evenly distributing to PG & a rested Melo (& an actual coach) it can work too... 

Do you really think RW would accept being switched to a 2 guard?

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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12 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Do you really think RW would accept being switched to a 2 guard?

You simply tell him, "For this franchise to win it all, your at the 2 spot... Or you can continue hero ball and retire with no rings without Durant for this same franchise..."

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37774

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Posted (edited)

Here's what's wrong with Russ.  If you give him the following choice: 

A) You average a triple-double and win a scoring title and everyone acknowledges that you're the best player in the league.  But your team finishes 5th.

B) You average 19 pts, 8 assts, and 5 rebounds as the second best player on the best team in the league.

There's no question which one he takes.

Option B is Chris Paul this year.  Russ will never be mature enough or unselfish enough to accept that kind of role.  And that's why I wouldn't trade Chris Paul for two Russell Westbrooks.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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Russell Westbrook is such an immature bitch. Maybe the last person I’d ever root for in any sport on the planet at this point. This fucking idiot just went after a fan who said *nothing* to him, then went after multiple reporters and refused to answer their questions, then had the nerve and sheer lack of self awareness to say, “I don’t let what other people say bother me. It’s in one ear and out the other.” Fuck you. You and your Okie fans deserve one another. 

Edited by Goo Punch
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Ldogg53

Ldogg53 514

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3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Russell Westbrook is such an immature bitch. Maybe the last person I’d ever root for in any sport on the planet at this point. This fucking idiot just went after a fan who said *nothing* to him, then went after multiple reporters and refused to answer their questions, then had the nerve and sheer lack of self awareness to say, “I don’t let what other people say bother me. It’s in one ear and out the other.” Fuck you. You and your Okie fans deserve one another. 

Yep. Total bitchass move.   What a chump. 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14591

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8 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Playoff P is a max fucking player.  His bitch ass shouldn’t need someone to make him better.  Shoot 40% and they win the god damn game.  I won’t even get into Melo.  That’s just retarded on all accounts.  

While this is true, the issue overall really is with the rest of the team.  I've said this before but in a league full of shooters, OKC has an entire supporting roster full of non shooters.  It's amazing Westbrook averages as many assists as he does.  OKC has prolly 5 wing players on the roster that can't hit a jump shot consistently and certainly aren't a threat to take it to the rim.  This is Presti's MO for some reason.  Even when Durant was there, I was surprised at times how bad the supporting cast was offensively.  This edition isn't any different.  You need 100ish points to win a game.  You'd have to get 25 each from Westbrook, George, and Melo (lol), and then you'll get maybe 10-15 from Adams.  That's still only 85 points.  The rest of their roster struggles mightily to get 20 points combined on a good night.  That forces Westbrook and George to basically play hero ball, especially now that Melo sucks ass because he's old.

Even last night, I read Westbrook was 17-34 before the flurry of shots at the end and still had 45 points.  This game or series isn't on Westbrook.  It's on Presti but yes, Paul George is a max player.  He shouldn't need someone to make him better.  Everything with OKC is always Westbrook's fault and while he certainly has his issues, last night wasn't it.

The Melo contract isn't all that bad.  It's only for one more year and they might get a trade partner that will take on his expiring contract but he has a no trade clause so there's that.  

Going forward, if they keep George, they'll be about the same.  They need to turn over the roster of non shooters but Presti has done that in the past only to find more lanky, defensive, non shooters.

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Jebus

Jebus 1305

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9 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Terrible no call on George.  But he has sucked so much dick not surprised he didn’t get the call.  

 

9 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Hilarious that anyone can watch this mess and blame WB.  If George and Melo are average they win this game.  They both sucked.  Shocking. 

Do you even Playoff P, bro?

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texaslong

texaslong 678

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4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Russell Westbrook is such an immature bitch. Maybe the last person I’d ever root for in any sport on the planet at this point. This fucking idiot just went after a fan who said *nothing* to him, then went after multiple reporters and refused to answer their questions, then had the nerve and sheer lack of self awareness to say, “I don’t let what other people say bother me. It’s in one ear and out the other.” Fuck you. You and your Okie fans deserve one another. 

Yup. The fact that he was complaining about how rude the Jazz fans were is comical. Just last year the OKC fans were the worst I've ever seen when KD came back to town, and Russ egged them on the entire game. The truth is Russ is a great talent, but he's as immature as a high school player. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20922

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43 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

While this is true, the issue overall really is with the rest of the team.  I've said this before but in a league full of shooters, OKC has an entire supporting roster full of non shooters.  It's amazing Westbrook averages as many assists as he does.  OKC has prolly 5 wing players on the roster that can't hit a jump shot consistently and certainly aren't a threat to take it to the rim.  This is Presti's MO for some reason.  Even when Durant was there, I was surprised at times how bad the supporting cast was offensively.  This edition isn't any different.  You need 100ish points to win a game.  You'd have to get 25 each from Westbrook, George, and Melo (lol), and then you'll get maybe 10-15 from Adams.  That's still only 85 points.  The rest of their roster struggles mightily to get 20 points combined on a good night.  That forces Westbrook and George to basically play hero ball, especially now that Melo sucks ass because he's old.

Apparently you're never going to learn, AB.  Westbrook WANTS to play hero ball.   Why is Oladipo flourishing in Indiana?  Why is Sabonis a really nice complimentary piece for them as well?

When it was KD and Russ together, it was two guys playing hero ball. But Durant didn't want to play that style of basketball.  He likes moving the ball around, getting other guys involved, and playing as a team. So he left. 

I agree that Melo is generally an overrated bum. I was happy/relieved he didn't sign with the Rockets.  But make no mistake, he would've had A LOT more success in Houston this year compared to OKC.  He would be jacking 3s in rhythm on a team that doesn't want to use him in post up situations. He is a good shooter, and that's how he should have been used.  But since there's no fucking offensive identity in OKC, he's used as a 1-on-1 player and that shit doesn't work. 

As much as you bag on Roberson, OKC desperately missed him this postseason.  He is an elite defender, and Donovan Mitchell would've had to work A LOT harder to get his points. 

OKC has had offensive problems for years.  Who is the ONE constant? Russell Westbrook. 

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texaslong

texaslong 678

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Russ also doesn't move without the ball. Once he gives it up he stands and waits to get it back. He isn't moving to help setup passes or shots without the ball. That's his biggest problem. When your PG isn't doing those things it's tough to beat good teams. It looks like the same offense they ran when Brooks was the coach. 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14591

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15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Apparently you're never going to learn, AB.  Westbrook WANTS to play hero ball.   Why is Oladipo flourishing in Indiana?  Why is Sabonis a really nice complimentary piece for them as well?

When it was KD and Russ together, it was two guys playing hero ball. But Durant didn't want to play that style of basketball.  He likes moving the ball around, getting other guys involved, and playing as a team. So he left. 

I agree that Melo is generally an overrated bum. I was happy/relieved he didn't sign with the Rockets.  But make no mistake, he would've had A LOT more success in Houston this year compared to OKC.  He would be jacking 3s in rhythm on a team that doesn't want to use him in post up situations. He is a good shooter, and that's how he should have been used.  But since there's no fucking offensive identity in OKC, he's used as a 1-on-1 player and that shit doesn't work. 

As much as you bag on Roberson, OKC desperately missed him this postseason.  He is an elite defender, and Donovan Mitchell would've had to work A LOT harder to get his points. 

OKC has had offensive problems for years.  Who is the ONE constant? Russell Westbrook. 

Agree with everything except the bolded part.  Durant was just as bad as Westbrook at times.  They fed off each other to the point that no one else even thought about shooting.  Durant got much better when he went to GS, which had an entire team built around moving the ball.  He grew a lot as a player with that move but in OKC, he was just as bad as WB when it came to situational awareness and chucking up bad shots.

Thing about Roberson is, you're right.  They really missed him.  They win the Utah series with him, quite frankly, because Mitchell doesn't go off with Roberson on him but good hell, Roberson is a total liability on offense to the point they can't play him for large stretches of time.  Remember the Houston series last year?  It's hard to even keep him on the floor.  It's even the hidden stats with him, too.  The other teams star guards Roberson and gets to rest for half the game.  When they've played Bron, he basically just stands at the 15 foot mark and rests because he knows Roberson can't do anything at all.  If he just had basic skills, you could keep him out there but he lacks even basic offensive skills despite being a starting NBA player.  Presti game from $30M over 3 years, too.  As long as he's a starter, OKC will never be a good shooting team.  Westbrook isn't a particularly good shooter so your starting backcourt is very limited so your shooting basically has to come from the SF or a stretch 4 if you can find one.  

I agree that Westbrook is the one constant but over the years the supporting cast is generally an abortion on offense.  It hit me this year that Corey Brewer got put on waivers by a bad Laker team and within 3 games, he was playing major minutes on OKC.  The sports media likes to talk about the stars on OKC but what they've missed is how bad the roster is 5-12.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

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38 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

What’s been lost in the last seven pages is the Utah Jazz are a damn good team.  OKC didn’t blow any series.   

The better team simply won.  

The Jazz are very fucking good. That run they went on towards the end of the season was absurd.  They were fucking torching people.  

Okc isn’t that good.  Losing Roberson ended their chances, they’d be a million times better off losing Melo.  

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10444

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Tommy Nobis said:

Pretty sure everyone wants to see GS get their shit pushed in. Rockets are really the only team with a chance to do it. Don’t see the Jazz or Pelicans giving them a series.

 

 

Pelicans will give them a series. They likely won't beat the Warriors, but that series will go at least 6 games. And it won't be 6 easy games. Cousin's injury was a huge blessing in disguise for Pelicans and it led to the trade for Mirotic which has been paying huge dividends. The Pelicans can meet any pace that the Warriors will play at. The huge question mark will be Curry's effectiveness.

This is a bit long. But I thought it was a well-thought out analysis of the upcoming series.

 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The Jazz are very fucking good. That run they went on towards the end of the season was absurd.  They were fucking torching people.  

Okc isn’t that good.  Losing Roberson ended their chances, they’d be a million times better off losing Melo.  

Well, most likely scenario is they lose Playoff Punk'd and keep Melo.  We'll see the "sell job" OKC can do on George.  May be able to convince him they'll be better in the 2nd year, but they're still far from being a real contender.  Melo is awful now.

20 minutes ago, Tommy Nobis said:

Pretty sure everyone wants to see GS get their shit pushed in. Rockets are really the only team with a chance to do it. Don’t see the Jazz or Pelicans giving them a series.

 

 

I could see the Cans pushing them a little without Curry.  A lot will depend on how Holiday plays.  A full strength, I think it'd be more like a 4-1 series.  Also depends on what Curry looks like when he returns.  A lot of rust.  That written, Warriors are starting to show cracks in the armor.  Iggy has been pretty poor this year and Draymond had his worst year in the past 4 seasons.  Now, they look like they'll have some nice backup forwards in Bell and Looney next year, but they're not as good this year as last... Houston definitely has a shot to beat them depending on health.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14591

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7 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Durant was cool/happy about playing that style of offense, he would have never left OKC. 

Many a game was squandered by Durant jacking up an ill advised three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock but I digress.  Durant seems to have grown out of it while Westbrook still has zero self awareness despite being in the league for 10 years.

Then again, it's easier for Durant to pass when he's passing to Steph, Klay, and Draymond instead of Thabo, Kendrick Perkins, and Roberson, etc.    

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