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Thunder vs Jazz

Machinator

By Machinator
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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9918

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Someone is less self aware than Westbrook.  Melo is basically saying he'll walk a $28M year if they want him to come off the bench?  That gives OKC the easiest exit strategy ever.

He’s going to make them prove it. And if by game 40 he’s still on the bench, he walks. 

No chance he walks from 28 million. None. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3966

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Posted
3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Many a game was squandered by Durant jacking up an ill advised three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock but I digress.  Durant seems to have grown out of it while Westbrook still has zero self awareness despite being in the league for 10 years.

Then again, it's easier for Durant to pass when he's passing to Steph, Klay, and Draymond instead of Thabo, Kendrick Perkins, and Roberson, etc.    

You're going to die on this hill.... KD grew out of it because he wanted to and went searching for a better situation.  Since, Russ has had two different casts of guys and stalled out in the first round.  Personally, I've never thought the Thunder Were real contenders the last two years but they've still underwhelmed as Westbrook has taken his game to new personal heights at the expense of the overall team success....  In the end, in a decade or two, one will be considered a champion and all time great.  Another will be considered another great talent who could never figure our how to win.  

I get it for thunder fans, this is all they can do -- rationalize and criticize others as they hope for some kernel of explanation and satisfaction of why he's so completely failed.  The constant is Westbrook not anyone else and it will echo thru their history until proven otherwise.  Westbrook doesn't know how to win and desperately needs someone, coach and/or other player, to teach him how.... But he's an unwilling pupil.  There's still a tiny window to get it done but it's looking more and more bleak with each season.  At this stage its seems obvious, Westbrook is the ingredient that poisons the well.  Can he figure out how to fix the championship chemistry????  Maybe but I think most lost faith outside of Oklahoma.....

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aggie08

aggie08 21734

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Tommy Nobis said:

The rockets are not a “super team”

Wut? The Warriors are way more homegrown than Houston is. Not that it matters. Both have exceptional front offices that have no problem taking advantage of other franchises' stupidity whenever possible.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 47848

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Posted
11 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Durant was cool/happy about playing that style of offense, he would have never left OKC. 

Could not be further from the truth. He left because he wanted the easy path to a ring. And joined a 73 win team who went to back to back Finals and just beat his team. He knew he was not going to win one being the main guy. So he went to blend in at GSW. Nothing to do with style of play. Had OKC won that series, he'd still be in OKC and would not be so ornery at the moment.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 47848

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3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Sure thing, Vic. 

 

Lmao at you believing what you actually typed. But he's a UT guy so I get it. But no one respects him anymore in general. A grown man has fake twitter accounts to trash former teammates even though he was as much to blame for their failures. 

But yeah, it's because he wanted to play team ball. Nothing about trying to go the easy way out and get a ring. KD didn't have a choice when he went to GSW on what game to play. That is not and will never be his team. He fell in line to what they wanted to do. Didn't have a choice. He played hero ball himself all those years in OKC. It didn't work out so he bailed. Simple as that.

 

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NoRagrets

NoRagrets 1136

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1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lmao at you believing what you actually typed. But he's a UT guy so I get it. But no one respects him anymore in general. A grown man has fake twitter accounts to trash former teammates even though he was as much to blame for their failures. 

But yeah, it's because he wanted to play team ball. Nothing about trying to go the easy way out and get a ring. KD didn't have a choice when he went to GSW on what game to play. That is not and will never be his team. He fell in line to what they wanted to do. Didn't have a choice. He played hero ball himself all those years in OKC. It didn't work out so he bailed. Simple as that.

 

KD is the best player on the best team in the NBA. I'd say his decision was brilliant.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15243

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11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Wut? The Warriors are way more homegrown than Houston is. Not that it matters. Both have exceptional front offices that have no problem taking advantage of other franchises' stupidity whenever possible.

His point is that Golden State has 4 AS's, the Rockets had one.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lmao at you believing what you actually typed. But he's a UT guy so I get it. But no one respects him anymore in general. A grown man has fake twitter accounts to trash former teammates even though he was as much to blame for their failures. 

But yeah, it's because he wanted to play team ball. Nothing about trying to go the easy way out and get a ring. KD didn't have a choice when he went to GSW on what game to play. That is not and will never be his team. He fell in line to what they wanted to do. Didn't have a choice. He played hero ball himself all those years in OKC. It didn't work out so he bailed. Simple as that.

 

Vic, read your post again.  You act like I'm being the emotional one, then you rant like a scorned little baby with a bunch of nonsense.  "KD didn't have a choice when he went to GSW on what game to play"? Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds?

But you pretty much designated yourself as the KD-hater on Shaggy, so I can't wait to see your regurgitated schtick now on Surly. 

 

 

 

 

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victory88

victory88 5755

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Posted

Wait... are people still making claims that going to GS was a bad move?!  How can anyone say it would have been better to stay in OKC.  No one can play with Westbrook.  He's a volume shooting ball hog.  Durant is a team player evidenced by his spectacular play at GS.  His dream was to win an NBA title.  He accomplished that last year winning finals MVP.  It was absolutely the right move.  No one on that team cares whether it's Curry's team or Durant's team.  Hell I don't think Curry or Durant care either.  

Leave out basketball... no one wants to fucking live in OKC.  

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lmao at you believing what you actually typed. But he's a UT guy so I get it. But no one respects him anymore in general. A grown man has fake twitter accounts to trash former teammates even though he was as much to blame for their failures. 

But yeah, it's because he wanted to play team ball. Nothing about trying to go the easy way out and get a ring. KD didn't have a choice when he went to GSW on what game to play. That is not and will never be his team. He fell in line to what they wanted to do. Didn't have a choice. He played hero ball himself all those years in OKC. It didn't work out so he bailed. Simple as that.

 

Well does seem to be playing team ball pretty well right now, so....

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Chapo

Chapo 104

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Yeah and I believe that the people who make that childish argument consistently fail to name a single viable alternative for KD. 

If I remember correctly, he was also looking at going East (Celtics).  He also met with the Spurs. There were other contenders like the Rockets that didn't get a meeting.  Obviously no other team would been better than the Warriors, in terms of the chance to win the championship.  I don't think anybody is debating that but lets not exaggerate the situation, his choices weren't bad.

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Thunder fucked

 

"Yeah, I'm not sacrificing no bench role," Anthony said. "That's out of the question."

 

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23349261/carmelo-anthony-oklahoma-city-thunder-says-come-bench-returns

I am upset that he chose to tell us what we all know, in the form of a double negative sentence...

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

From what I gather the argument is whether KD left because he wanted to jump on the badwagon for an easy path to a ring, or because he wanted to get away from RW.  

I think Presti trading away Harden while neve actually getting the needed shooter the roster needed, not counting firing Brooks for a college coach are the main reasons he left...

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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It was the Warriors, Clippers, Spurs, Celtics, and Heat. Joining the Clippers, Heat, or Celtics did nothing to improve his chances of winning a title and joining the Spurs would have been the same as joining the Warriors. Keep in mind he has 9 years in the league at this point. There was essentially nothing he could do to both have a realistic shot at winning a title and avoid joining a team that was already a title contender. 

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Chapo

Chapo 104

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Posted

I (and many other non-Spurs fan) wouldn't have viewed joining the Spurs the same as the 73 win Warriors. I still think that the Celtics would have been a great choice. You got Ainge, Stevens, and numerous lottery picks moving forward.

After the burner account fiasco and listening to his interviews, I get why he joined the Warriors.  He is a very sensitive guy that pays too much attention to what blog boys and twitter have to say. Jerry West got into his head and the rest is history. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21734

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Chapo said:

I (and many other non-Spurs fan) wouldn't have viewed joining the Spurs the same as the 73 win Warriors.

Because the Spurs only won a measly, rather pathetic 67 games that season, and were two whole years removed from a title, rather than one?

Edited by aggie08
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, Chapo said:

I (and many other non-Spurs fan) wouldn't have viewed joining the Spurs the same as the 73 win Warriors. I still think that the Celtics would have been a great choice. You got Ainge, Stevens, and numerous lottery picks moving forward.

After the burner account fiasco and listening to his interviews, I get why he joined the Warriors.  He is a very sensitive guy that pays too much attention to what blog boys and twitter have to say. Jerry West got into his head and the rest is history. 

Right, because joining the New England Patriots of the NBA who were fresh off winning 65+ games is totally different. Come on man. You’re pretty reasonable and even you can’t come up with an alternative where he can contend for a title while also joining a team that wasn’t currently challenging to begin with. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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If Golden State had beaten Cleveland in the 2016 NBA Finals, I don't think KD would have signed with the Warriors.  I believe he would have looked harder at the Spurs, Celtics, and maybe the Rockets.

If OKC had beaten GS in the Western Conference Finals, I think KD would have stayed with the Thunder

It pretty much took the perfect storm for Durant to sign with Golden State. I think he really liked Westbrook but they had no offensive rhythm. I think he was annoyed that the Thunder were losing out on big time FAs as most players don't want to voluntarily live in Oklahoma City.

As a huge KD fan, I have to admit that leaving OKC and joining GS has kinda bummed me out. I really liked the idea of Durant building a franchise and bringing home a ring. He was more of an underdog and I rooted HARD for him with the Thunder. But KD isn't letting the fans dictate his career. He wanted to be in a friendlier offense with good team camaraderie and live in a great city. IMO his legacy would have been greater if he stayed with the Thunder and won a ring, but it wasn't meant to be.  Doesn't help that the OKC organization made highly questionable roster/contract decisions that killed the momentum they were creating back in 2012 with KD/Russ/Harden.

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13187

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Posted
3 hours ago, kopp0e said:

I think Presti trading away Harden while neve actually getting the needed shooter the roster needed, not counting firing Brooks for a college coach are the main reasons he left...

Imagine how that trade would be viewed if the Thunder selected Antetokounmpo with that pick instead of Steven Adams

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Chapo

Chapo 104

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Posted
2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Because the Spurs only won a measly, rather pathetic 67 games that season, and were two whole years removed from a title, rather than one?

Because as an NBA fan, I think it would have been a hell of rivalry and it would give the Warriors a real threat. 

 

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Yeah, he really got swindled by people getting into his head and probably regrets going to Golden State every day if his life. What a boneheaded decision! 

Never said it was a bonehead decision, he wanted to be on the best team for the highest chance to win the championship. He got what he wanted and got his ring.

Some of us felt cheated.  It is completely emotional, sorry for not being logical.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3966

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14 minutes ago, Chapo said:

Never said it was a bonehead decision, he wanted to be on the best team for the highest chance to win the championship. He got what he wanted and got his ring.

Some of us felt cheated.  It is completely emotional, sorry for not being logical.

I don't think this is necessarily true.... it's an oversimplification of a complex decision.  Was competing for championships a prerequisite to part of the decision?  Of course, but he also is on the record as saying he wanted to try a different brand of basketball, he wanted to live in a different part of the country (he didn't take a meeting with Washington b/c he didn't want to go home), he wanted to be part of a vibrant organization.  He could have taken a small deal and joined Lebron and cruised to a championship as well, but he didn't.  I get the frustration of his decision for non-Warrior fans (which I am) but too many people simply say, "yea he wanted to cruise to a championship so he joined the Warriors".  That's elementary thinking.... The bay area with money, being in a motion, shared system, with a bunch of dudes around his age who were winning..... yea, that's a pretty seductive cocktail.  

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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Posted
Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

I don't think this is necessarily true.... it's an oversimplification of a complex decision.  Was competing for championships a prerequisite to part of the decision?  Of course, but he also is on the record as saying he wanted to try a different brand of basketball, he wanted to live in a different part of the country (he didn't take a meeting with Washington b/c he didn't want to go home), he wanted to be part of a vibrant organization.  He could have taken a small deal and joined Lebron and cruised to a championship as well, but he didn't.  I get the frustration of his decision for non-Warrior fans (which I am) but too many people simply say, "yea he wanted to cruise to a championship so he joined the Warriors".  That's elementary thinking.... The bay area with money, being in a motion, shared system, with a bunch of dudes around his age who were winning..... yea, that's a pretty seductive cocktail.  

He wanted to play on a team with a real head coach that runs a real offense.

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aggie08

aggie08 21734

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Chapo said:

Because as an NBA fan, I think it would have been a hell of rivalry and it would give the Warriors a real threat. 

That's a bit of revisionist history. People forget how damn good that years' Spurs team was. That entire season seemed like a foregone conclusion for the Warriors/Spurs WCF, two of the greatest regular season teams ever, meeting for what was expected to be the real Finals. Golden State would have been favored, but it was expected to be a highly competitive series. Then, OKC clicked at the right time, finally lived up to their ridiculous talent--especially defensively--and played spoiler (not to mention always matching up well with SA).

If KD had gone to SA, they would have been HEAVY favorites to win the title. Arguably the best offensive player in the league (who just showed that he could take over a series defensively as well), the two-time reigning DPOY, All-Star LMA, two Hall of Famers that still seemed to have a few miles left in the tank, and Pop.

Conversely, Golden State would have had to match Dallas's ridiculous offer on Harrison Barnes while praying that Bogut could have survived another season (he wouldn't have). They would have signed a couple of bigs with the salary spike to back up Bogut and replace Ezeli, but there weren't any great options available. A ring with SA last season would have been almost as "easy" for KD.

Edited by aggie08
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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14782

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Posted

Personally, I never blamed KD for leaving.  He's making tens of millions of dollars per year and wanted to live in SF vs. OKC.  (Duh.)  Still kind of surprised he left that much money on the table to do it, though.

My issues was the narrative that he couldn't ever win a title in OKC.  When he left, they got nothing in return and still won 45 games.  When Bron left Cleveland, they won 10 games.  OKC had a good team.  Durant could have won there, he just didn't.

 

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aggie08

aggie08 21734

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Posted

I agree with that assessment. Every year that OKC managed to stay healthy, they were right in the mix. Had KD stayed, last year's title would have been a competitive-as-hell 4 team race between Golden State, Cleveland, OKC, and SA, with Houston nipping on their heels.

But yeah, then it comes back to "why the hell would you choose to spend your entire career in Oklahoma City playing 90's basketball for an organization that cheaps out to avoid paying the luxury tax at every opportunity?" (Until KD left, put the fear of god in them, and they overcorrected their spending to entice Russ to re-sign.)

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Imagine how that trade would be viewed if the Thunder selected Antetokounmpo with that pick instead of Steven Adams

It's questionable if the Thunder would see Antetokounmpo (that guy's name is too long) the Greek Freak flourish the same as he has in Milwaukee... The Thunder has no real offensive system, and I imagine many times Russ would just barrel down court to dump off the ball to Ant when there is a chance to pass to an open Roberson or Kanter...

If Brad Stevens or Steve Kerr were the coach of the Thunder, then I would 100% agree, but as is, if the Thunder can't win with Melo & PG + Russ, the same can be expected with Ant + Russ...

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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12 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Golden State had beaten Cleveland in the 2016 NBA Finals, I don't think KD would have signed with the Warriors.  I believe he would have looked harder at the Spurs, Celtics, and maybe the Rockets.

If OKC had beaten GS in the Western Conference Finals, I think KD would have stayed with the Thunder

It pretty much took the perfect storm for Durant to sign with Golden State. I think he really liked Westbrook but they had no offensive rhythm. I think he was annoyed that the Thunder were losing out on big time FAs as most players don't want to voluntarily live in Oklahoma City.

As a huge KD fan, I have to admit that leaving OKC and joining GS has kinda bummed me out. I really liked the idea of Durant building a franchise and bringing home a ring. He was more of an underdog and I rooted HARD for him with the Thunder. But KD isn't letting the fans dictate his career. He wanted to be in a friendlier offense with good team camaraderie and live in a great city. IMO his legacy would have been greater if he stayed with the Thunder and won a ring, but it wasn't meant to be.  Doesn't help that the OKC organization made highly questionable roster/contract decisions that killed the momentum they were creating back in 2012 with KD/Russ/Harden.

Oklahoma City pre-Durant exodus, was just fine (in the owners point of view) in not spending to get a shooter, or a real point gaurd to distribute to KD & Russ...

That thinking was small market in that fans will show up as long as the franchise rides the offensive back of Durant... 

The Thunder should have paid the luxury tax to keep Harden, and hired Kerr when he was available at the time as a color analyst... But if most had the same option as Durant in getting paid nearly the same while your job helped to pay for relocation from Oklahoma City to San Francisco, to work for a better ran organization within the same company, most take that deal...

8 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Don’t you wish that the guy who always starts this fire would actually have the balls to participate in this discussion beyond “KD is a bitch who only wanted the easy way out!!”?

I don't blame KD for leaving and in fact applaud his continued efforts to give to charities in the area such as donations to the elementary school that is setup for homeless children...

That guy will always be a good person in my point of view...

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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Posted
1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Milwaukee hasn't exactly been a bastion of great coaching or creative offense, either.

Well I don't disagree, but it's not as bad as what the Thunder toss out there...

Billy Donovan was a solid college coach, but is a tad bit too reserved in never really questioning bad foul calls/ making odd timed player rotations/ not usually calling a timeout to stem the tide of a scoring drought or opponents offensive barrage... 

Not a bad coach, but then again I grew up watching the systems of Phil Jackson & Greg Popovich running smooth offensive sets with an agressive (non switching) defense...

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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Posted
1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

Don’t you wish that the guy who always starts this fire would actually have the balls to participate in this discussion beyond “KD is a bitch who only wanted the easy way out!!”?

But he tries telling me to stop for Lebron hating...and no I will not!!!! Lmao. At least my was directed at the potential changing of the outcome of games due to bad officiating. His beef is just he doesn't like team Durant chose to join. Who gives a fuck?

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11228

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Posted

I think the first domino to fall in this KD exit saga was when the team moved from Seattle to Oklahoma. It's no San Francisco, but at least some people enjoy living in Seattle. Maybe if the team never moved, it would have had the money and attractiveness to field more competitive teams instead of the penny pinching bullshit they did while he was there. 

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